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Fred Bennett
Dunta Robinson
John Busing
Eugene Wilson
Amobi Okoye
DerekLee1 said:.
You only have a pick a round. Every year since Andre Johnson they've drafted for defense first. The problem is during the Casserly years, they built a HORRIBLE defense, and we're still trying to recover. I'm not trying to make excuses but it's fact. My God, everyone (me included) wanted Bush or Young in '06. Can you IMAGINE how bad we'd be if we didn't at LEAST have Mario?
You only have a pick a round. Every year since Andre Johnson they've drafted for defense first. The problem is during the Casserly years, they built a HORRIBLE defense, and we're still trying to recover. I'm not trying to make excuses but it's fact. My God, everyone (me included) wanted Bush or Young in '06. Can you IMAGINE how bad we'd be if we didn't at LEAST have Mario? If you draft for the secondary, you don't have Mario. You don't have Demeco. You don't have Okoye. You don't have Cushing. The defense was/is so God-awful personnel-wise, it truly will take a couple more years still to right it. Yes, we are pathetic in the secondary, but this isn't fantasy football. You don't get to draft Top-10 talent at skill positions for 4 rounds in a row. It's a damn good thing we have Kubiak and Lil' Shanny running the offense they do so we can at least stay competitive for most games.
Yeah, and I'd trade Antwaun Molden for a decent free safety. I'd trade Connor Barwin for a decent free safety. I'd trade Most of our first four round picks of the past couple of years for a decent safety. Its a joke to think you can ignore the most important stopgap in your defense for your entire franchise history and think that you'll be okay.
So would all of us. But what "decent" safeties were available when those guys were taken? We need to be able to use a first-round pick on a good safety because there ain't no good ones being let go by any teams. There were so many gigantic holes on this pathetic defense, it will take half a generation to fill them all. Frankly, Eugene Wilson was the best FA safety to come available in the last few years, and we got him. And he's not all that good either.
So would all of us. But what "decent" safeties were available when those guys were taken? We need to be able to use a first-round pick on a good safety because there ain't no good ones being let go by any teams. There were so many gigantic holes on this pathetic defense, it will take half a generation to fill them all. Frankly, Eugene Wilson was the best FA safety to come available in the last few years, and we got him. And he's not all that good either.
I guess my point is that it doesn't matter if it's the coaches or the players because Gary Kubiak signed off on everyone on the roster.
If I had a dollar for every time a safety made a bad play in this franchise's history, I would make Bill Gates look like Mother Teresa. We have not had one single freaking decent safety in the entire 8 years of this franchise. The only servicable one we ever had was Marlon Mcree and it isn't like he is Ed Reed. And they tossed him anyway. I think Wilson can be serviable in coverage but he isn't all that and a bag of chips. He isn't a "plus" player.
It's been consistent across various coaches, schemes, GM's, and personel. In fact, If one was a conspiracy buff he might stop and think who is the only person consistently there the whole time, and wonders if said person doesn't want to pay big bucks to such a non glamour position.
Again, if you go after a safety, you don't get Cushing, Okoye, Mario, Dunta, or Duane Brown (who has been superb). The big misses were Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. It comes down to having too many needs and not enough first round draft picks. Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact is, Casserly's misses are STILL killing us. Sure, I think the jury's still out on Okoye, but I don't think in drafting him he was considered a "project". MOST boards had him in the top 10, and many had him as high as 5. It was not a reach, and at the time, everyone here thought he was a great pick.
It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, why did we take this guy when we could've had that guy?" Don't you think San Diego would love to throw back the Ryan Leaf pick? Or Tennessee Vince Young? Hindsight is 20/20, and all in all, the Smithiak team has been all "hits" on their drafting. The fact is, there STILL isn't enough talent on our defense.
Again, if you go after a safety, you don't get Cushing, Okoye, Mario, Dunta, or Duane Brown (who has been superb). The big misses were Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. It comes down to having too many needs and not enough first round draft picks. Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact is, Casserly's misses are STILL killing us. Sure, I think the jury's still out on Okoye, but I don't think in drafting him he was considered a "project". MOST boards had him in the top 10, and many had him as high as 5. It was not a reach, and at the time, everyone here thought he was a great pick.
It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, why did we take this guy when we could've had that guy?" Don't you think San Diego would love to throw back the Ryan Leaf pick? Or Tennessee Vince Young? Hindsight is 20/20, and all in all, the Smithiak team has been all "hits" on their drafting. The fact is, there STILL isn't enough talent on our defense.
swtbound07 said:A first round pick isn't necessary to improve the position. A pick before the 7th probably is. Stop blaming casserly for a problem this regime has had ample time to address
I predict the Casserly excuse will die only if Detroit shrugs off the Matt Millen legacy and beats the Texans to the playoffs.
I predict the Casserly excuse will die only if Detroit shrugs off the Matt Millen legacy and beats the Texans to the playoffs.
A first round pick isn't necessary to improve the position. A pick before the 7th probably is. Stop blaming casserly for a problem this regime has had ample time to address
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.
I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.
I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.
I'll go out on a limb here and say that the DB's that we have on the roster now are worse than the ones we had in 06 when Kubiak took over.
But then again, I'm not sure that the coaching is better. Giving up 400 yards a game was a common occurrence back then too.
It's 4 years.
I won't. S was and has been the worst. You can disagree if you like, but I've been screaming for a FS since sean taylor was in college.
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.
We're IN their fourth year. You can't say you've been through a year until it's been a year. You don't turn a year older the day after your birthday!
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.
I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.
Rick Smith had nothing to do with Mario Williams, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston or David Anderson.
As far as we know, anyway. But those were still Kubiak's guys. You can't tell me Casserly got 4 hits in one draft after 5 YEARS of misses (save AJ).
You are aware that there's other ways to build a team besides the draft, right?
Lots of free agents have come and gone in the time since "Smithiak" took over. Plenty of them were DB's.
Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Brian Dawkins, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Dawan Landry, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Oshiomogho Atogwe, UFA, St Louis Rams
Tyron Brackenridge, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Phillip Buchanon, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jabari Greer, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Rodney Harrison, UFA, New England Patriots
Kelvin Hayden, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Renaldo Hill, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Daven Holly, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Sean Jones, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Bryant McFadden, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
R.W. McQuarters, UFA, New York Giants
Lawyer Milloy, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Deltha O'Neal, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jarrad Page, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Bucs
Allen Rossum, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Darren Sharper, UFA, Darren Sharper
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.
Rick Smith had nothing to do with Mario Williams, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston or David Anderson.
He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.
He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.
He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.
Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.
Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.
He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.
He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.
He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.
I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.
Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.
I have to believe it's more personnel and Talent. Guys just seem to be way out of position on the big plays. D Rob was quoted on 610 this morning as saying it's not the coaching, it's guy's having mental lapses and not being where they're supposed to be......
Since the same people are responsible for the coaching and talent, the question is somewhat moot.
Runner, what the hell is up with that avatar? A picture of someone's feet?
And how many of those are worth a damn? And of THOSE, how many were interested in coming to this team? Just because you pursue a FA doesn't mean they're interested. And that's not always about money. It could be about location, family, coaches, business ventures. To lure a player away from those intangibles requires overpaying. Who on that list is worth overpaying?