Dejaview
All Pro
Has anyone seen his contract? NFL isnt a standard corporate model...just look what we know about Caserio’s contract.
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
Patriots Accuse Texans of Tampering
- Thread starter txtx
- Start date
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Actually by cutting bait as you say over a pending (and assumed credible) discrimination lawsuit, and providing 3.5 years of compensation as a severance package, Cal would have actually placed the Texans in tremendous legal exposure. As it is, if this lawsuit goes forward, the Texans will have to prove that his termination was not related to these accusations, because no company anywhere provides severance packages related to for-cause (meaning justifiable) terminations. The severance package dictates that his termination was for non-for cause reason (i.e. - job performance). There is no lawyer worth his salt who would say "yeah this guy is a racist and has discriminated against black people, but when we fire him let's give him a huge severance package before we walk him out the door". This has nothing to do with the owners balls.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Never mind you answered Steels post.
Then yes I would agree its a very bad and unprofessional look all the way around.
Dejaview
All Pro
Don’t you think then that argues in his favor? Someone feels it’s totally bogus. I see this thing never seeing a courtroom. Also consider his high level position. He’s not a standard employee. Wherever you work, what goes on there at that level? I promise his level and above leave with much better packages than normal.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Actually that does bring up another question. How does that work with Texas being an at will state? My understanding is even with a contract you don't have to have justification to terminate someone. Could that still be claimed as a severance package?
Dejaview
All Pro
He’s not guilty of anything regarding the lawsuit. What I’m hearing is he’s getting paid the remainder of his contract. Is it a bonus paid upfront? Doubt it. As it stands he’s being paid severance for job performance. Can that money be withheld if he hasn’t been found guilty of anything related to the accusation? I could see it could lead to the forfeiture of future money, but to do so now would unfairly at this point be a guilty plea. Edit. Is it even certain he’s actually being paid this severance now?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
When high level executives leave because they are not getting the job done, are not a cultural fit, company is changing directions, blah blah blah, those executives do tend to leave with nice packages. However, he was arguing that Gaine was fired because of the pending lawsuit. I have been involved in for-cause terminations for high level employees related to harassment and discrimination/retaliation and not one of them was given a "golden parachute" for their illegal behaviors.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Correct, we are an at-will work state, so both the employee and employer can terminate the working relationship at any time and for any reason. Generally severance packages are related to situations related to job eliminations. If one is terminated for inability to perform role, one does not automatically get a severance package. However, Gaine's contract may be written in a way to say that he still receives all of his salary within the contract if he is terminated. However again, if Gaine was terminated for an egregious issue such as sexual harassment or racial discrimination, I am positive that there is language in the contract that indemnifies the Texans from paying the remaining compensation. Again, no corporate lawyer would allow a contract to be written that way.
Was with you right up 'til these seemingly contradictory statements
The Texans are not going to admit Gaine was fired for racial discrimination with a lawsuit pending. That would be an admission of guilt. I don't know if that was/wasn't/or part of the reason. We'll just never hear them admit it.
Pay me and I promise you Watson will be protected after next year's draft/fa .
sandman
Brexit Advisor
True. So anything on our part is pure speculation, no matter how factual certain posters attempt to craft their opinions.
Let's be aware that neither the Texans nor Brian Gaine are legally removed from the pending lawsuit simply because they no longer have a working relationship. Both can still be found guilty as at the time of the alleged incidents, Gaine was acting as an agent of the Texans corporation.
Dejaview
All Pro
What has he done that is illegal? That is the point. I don’t see a guilty of anything verdict. He’s getting his parachute package according to, I assume, his contract provisions. He could sue the Texans for violation of contract if he has a case. Here is what we don’t know. Why did the Texans go this route if they had a perfect out? Investigate, fire him for cause, terminate his contract and make a statement that this is not tolerated? There is more to this but prudence and fairness to all says to simply stand by.
You mean like the Hartmann turf suit. The turf was said to be fine. (Despite Belichick/Weller/Clowney saying otherwise. The the lawsuit gets settled and field turf gets installed. Coincedece?
FIFY
sandman
Brexit Advisor
He hasn't done anything illegal at this point. I am responding to opinions that the Texans fired him because of the pending racial discrimination lawsuit. Based on the fact that all reports say he will receive all of the remaining compensation in his contract, his termination appears to be based on performance (or lack thereof) reasons.
MORE DRAMA ON KIRBY?
Did the Texans know about discriminatory firings, and hope no one would notice?
[URL]https://houston.sportsmap.com/did-the-texans-know-about-discriminatory-firings-and-hope-no-one-would-notice?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4[/URL]
Patrick CreightonJun 13, 2019, 6:51 am
Wednesday was a busy day for the Texans. Not only were they served with tampering charges from Patriots over contact with their top choice to be their new GM in Nick Caserio, but they also got served with a discrimination complaint against their former GM, Brian Gaine.
Former Texans staffer Jeff Pope alleged to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission he was fired unjustly on Friday – which happened to be Gaine's last day as well (sources agreed Gaine's firing had absolutely zero to do with the alleged discriminatory practices). The complaint went on to state that Gaine had created a hostile work environment towards African-Americans and that his firing was just one in a long line of terminations of African-American employees replaced by white males.
According to sources, Gaine knew exactly what he was doing with all of these terminations, and so did Texans head coach Bill O'Brien. The two had been discussing the issue as far back as last year.
Both agreed that it "looked bad", according to the sources, and they hoped no one would notice. The two also had hoped that the hiring of CJ Leak as Assistant Director of Pro Scouting would be enough of a deterrent to anyone thinking that the front office was acting in a discriminatory fashion.
Leak was a combine scout for the Saints prior to joining the Texans, and combine scout to assistant director of pro scouting is a major leap up the ranks (imagine hiring another team's Assistant Linebackers Coach as your new Defensive Coordinator). While the sources spoke highly of Leak as a scout, they agreed race was likely a factor in the decision because both Gaine and O'Brien were overly conscious of perception of all the terminated African-American staffers, none of whom were replaced by other minorities.
Perhaps the biggest unjust firing, according to the sources, was that of assistant director of college scouting Mike Martin, who was terminated a few months after Gaine took over as GM. Martin was one of the first hires made by former GM Rick Smith when he took over, and was highly regarded as a scout.
Martin is noted for being the scout who convinced the Texans to sign Arian Foster and AJ Bouye as undrafted free agents. He is also the scout who made the recommendations of Duane Brown, DeAndre Hopkins, and Jadeveon Clowney. Martin was a big advocate for the team choosing Clowney over Blake Bortles.
Martin was also a big proponent of Deshaun Watson, and was the man who scouted Benardrick McKinney and Kareem Jackson.
None of that sounds like the resume of a guy you want to fire, does it?
It seems like the biggest red X he had was that he was hired by Rick Smith. Perhaps that was all he needed.\\
The sources also indicated that former assistant GM Jimmy Raye III was terminated because he was the guy Rick Smith hired to replace Gaine when Gaine left the Texans to become the VP of Player Personnel in Buffalo.
Being African-American and hired by Rick Smith were the two biggest reasons people were getting terminated. It's the perfect intersection where discrimination meets pettiness.
It's also where the two most powerful people in the Texans organization whose last names aren't McNair sat down, broke bread, and deliberately turned a blind eye to a practice they knew "looked bad" and was wrong.
They hoped no one would notice. Now they may find themselves under a microscope.
Sources indicated that O'Brien and Gaine worked collaboratively on these terminations (they were in "alignment") because one of the most important issues to O'Brien was to get rid of anyone that he thought was a "Rick Smith guy" and replace them with "his guys". Whether or not a staffer was good at their job was not important, just who hired them was (and perhaps the color of their skin as well).
Did the Texans know about discriminatory firings, and hope no one would notice?
[URL]https://houston.sportsmap.com/did-the-texans-know-about-discriminatory-firings-and-hope-no-one-would-notice?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4[/URL]
Patrick CreightonJun 13, 2019, 6:51 am
Wednesday was a busy day for the Texans. Not only were they served with tampering charges from Patriots over contact with their top choice to be their new GM in Nick Caserio, but they also got served with a discrimination complaint against their former GM, Brian Gaine.
Former Texans staffer Jeff Pope alleged to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission he was fired unjustly on Friday – which happened to be Gaine's last day as well (sources agreed Gaine's firing had absolutely zero to do with the alleged discriminatory practices). The complaint went on to state that Gaine had created a hostile work environment towards African-Americans and that his firing was just one in a long line of terminations of African-American employees replaced by white males.
According to sources, Gaine knew exactly what he was doing with all of these terminations, and so did Texans head coach Bill O'Brien. The two had been discussing the issue as far back as last year.
Both agreed that it "looked bad", according to the sources, and they hoped no one would notice. The two also had hoped that the hiring of CJ Leak as Assistant Director of Pro Scouting would be enough of a deterrent to anyone thinking that the front office was acting in a discriminatory fashion.
Leak was a combine scout for the Saints prior to joining the Texans, and combine scout to assistant director of pro scouting is a major leap up the ranks (imagine hiring another team's Assistant Linebackers Coach as your new Defensive Coordinator). While the sources spoke highly of Leak as a scout, they agreed race was likely a factor in the decision because both Gaine and O'Brien were overly conscious of perception of all the terminated African-American staffers, none of whom were replaced by other minorities.
Perhaps the biggest unjust firing, according to the sources, was that of assistant director of college scouting Mike Martin, who was terminated a few months after Gaine took over as GM. Martin was one of the first hires made by former GM Rick Smith when he took over, and was highly regarded as a scout.
Martin is noted for being the scout who convinced the Texans to sign Arian Foster and AJ Bouye as undrafted free agents. He is also the scout who made the recommendations of Duane Brown, DeAndre Hopkins, and Jadeveon Clowney. Martin was a big advocate for the team choosing Clowney over Blake Bortles.
Martin was also a big proponent of Deshaun Watson, and was the man who scouted Benardrick McKinney and Kareem Jackson.
None of that sounds like the resume of a guy you want to fire, does it?
It seems like the biggest red X he had was that he was hired by Rick Smith. Perhaps that was all he needed.\\
The sources also indicated that former assistant GM Jimmy Raye III was terminated because he was the guy Rick Smith hired to replace Gaine when Gaine left the Texans to become the VP of Player Personnel in Buffalo.
Being African-American and hired by Rick Smith were the two biggest reasons people were getting terminated. It's the perfect intersection where discrimination meets pettiness.
It's also where the two most powerful people in the Texans organization whose last names aren't McNair sat down, broke bread, and deliberately turned a blind eye to a practice they knew "looked bad" and was wrong.
They hoped no one would notice. Now they may find themselves under a microscope.
Sources indicated that O'Brien and Gaine worked collaboratively on these terminations (they were in "alignment") because one of the most important issues to O'Brien was to get rid of anyone that he thought was a "Rick Smith guy" and replace them with "his guys". Whether or not a staffer was good at their job was not important, just who hired them was (and perhaps the color of their skin as well).
Never underestimate Cletus level of incompetence.
Never underestimate Cletus level of incompetence.
Dejaview
All Pro
Dudes resume states he combines sports news with current events and comedy. Sources? That word is used in the entire content of his opinion. This is crap from an evidence angle. Btw, who has RS fired during his tenure?
Dejaview
All Pro
Dudes resume states he combines sports news with current events and comedy. Sources? That word is used in the entire content of his opinion. This is crap from an evidence angle. Btw, who has RS fired during his tenure?
So hiring scouts you want and firing scouts from the old mediocre regime is racist? When a new regime comes in they will usually clean house regardless of race.
The house cleaning was long overdue, unless you are ok with mediocrity. They hire Leak because of his reputation as a top notch scout and this is how Creighton explains hiring a minority away. This is offensive to Leak and his talent. Creighton appears to have an axe to grind.
Was RS a racist because he hired a bunch of minorities? Nope and firing them after years of mediocrity isn't racist either.
These kinds of lawsuits hurt minorities when it comes to hiring. The old saying is when you hire someone you have to think about what's going to happen when you need to fire them. But hey, Pope will probably get paid and that's all he really cares about. He's just another disgruntled employee.
Delete
Last edited:
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I was just posting the article.
I agree I don't think it was raicsm. I think petty O'Brien just wanted to fire anyone who was hired by Rick, not matter their job performance.
Interesting to see what sources are saying about what went on.
For example, why fire Mike Martin? He immediately found a job with the panthers.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...ell-delivers-diamond-in-the-rough-5864149.php
Mike Martin didn't lie, and it all worked out. For him, Arian Foster and the Texans. But Martin definitely stretched the truth soon after the 74th NFL draft was complete. Five years later, he still can't believe he pulled it all off.
"I'm passionate about scouting and I'm passionate about football, and that's why I do it," said Martin, a Texans college scout. "It was just a good feeling. It made me feel like all the work's not in vain."
The Germantown, Md., resident rates about 500 athletes for the annual NFL draft. During a good year, the Texans will take a few of the players to whom Martin devotes endless hours and cross-state travel.
From rounds 1-7 on April 25 and 26 in 2009, the Texans and 31 other teams passed on a promising but unpredictable 6-1, 215-pound running back from the University of Tennessee. Martin then spent the next few days doing everything he could to convince Foster that Houston should be his NFL home.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I realize you have a hard on for the McNairs, but it is asinine to continue to promote the idea that Cal somehow went against any and all advice from his legal team about how to terminate his GM. But you know that.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So basically you have an opinion about OB, which is supported by an article created around unverified sources by an insufferable C-list radio host who has had a known falling out with OB
Dejaview
All Pro
If you are, as stated, a HR dude your job is to kiss managements ass, right? Well that and make sure you have a supply of t-shirts and koozies with the company logo on them. Do you always jump to conclusions regarding your management team? Who’s right here. None of us know but you probably should follow your business practices. You might be right but this is social media...everything you read is true, lol.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Not sure what you disagree with that resulted in ad hominem attacks, but whatever. I've got some ass kissing and koozies to take care of.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Absolutely not. Very polarizing figure. Just saying that an article by Creighton of all people doesn't validate or invalidate any of our opinions. He is a horrible journalist that abuses the privilege of invoking anonymous (and unverified) sources to promote his personal agenda.
Even the best journalists and NFL insiders use anonymous and unverified sources. If they were named, the sources would never speak to the media.
wow, with your impressions of HR, I'm glad I never worked for a company that you did
I stand by my post
Nothing surprises me with this clusterfvck of an org. It shouldn't surprise you either.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Fair. One can say that works well when trying to create some talk around whether or not players in the locker room hate him. It's irresponsible journalism to invoke those sources to accuse someone of illegal activity. That article you posted was a hit piece.
Oh Jesus I laughed way too hard at that!
I always keep in mind that HR isn't necessarily there as an employee advocate, but to protect the company. In this case, there had to be an HR person aware of the EEOC complaint that knew how the timing of the Gaine firing would be perceived. The alternatives are A) They had no idea of either the EEOC complaint, or the impending firing....or B) Their concerns were overruled / discounted by senior brass.
Hell, at best there were going to be tons of questions as to why, at a whopping 17 months of service you were letting your GM go.
And Dejaview? We have entirely different folks (outside of HR) responsible for koozie and t-shirt distribution at fortune 100 companies. :P
Well the article didn't accuse him of racism, it accused him of firing anyone associated with Rick Smith. I think we can all agree that's true.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I'm not trying to deny you your right to your opinion just because I call you out for being more clever than said opinion.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Fortune 10 for me. And yes, I would love it if my job were all about koozies and not attending EEOC hearings.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I'll never forget on one of the jobs I was safety on and had to call up HR due to some on site problems.
Me: I've got a guy here I need to fire because he is about to be a major problem but he's already threating law suit, what do I do?
HR: Do you have X, Y and Z that he filled out?
Me: I do.
HR: Then terminate his employment, have security escort him off site, tell him if he returns the police will be called and we'll handle any issues from there. From your end you are covered.
That's the very short version clearly but you get the point. Don't always agree with them but I love the boys and girls in the HR department.
Me: I've got a guy here I need to fire because he is about to be a major problem but he's already threating law suit, what do I do?
HR: Do you have X, Y and Z that he filled out?
Me: I do.
HR: Then terminate his employment, have security escort him off site, tell him if he returns the police will be called and we'll handle any issues from there. From your end you are covered.
That's the very short version clearly but you get the point. Don't always agree with them but I love the boys and girls in the HR department.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
So let’s face check here.
Bob McNair said some racist comments
Duane Brown thought the club was full of racists at the top and wanted out
All white men are being hired while black scouts and executives are being fired
Even if it’s not deliberate, the perception is bad. Throw in a tampering accusation and reports that the mediocre head coach has full control of the organization and you have yourself a certified **** show. This team makes it hard to root for
Bob McNair said some racist comments
Duane Brown thought the club was full of racists at the top and wanted out
All white men are being hired while black scouts and executives are being fired
Even if it’s not deliberate, the perception is bad. Throw in a tampering accusation and reports that the mediocre head coach has full control of the organization and you have yourself a certified **** show. This team makes it hard to root for
Not many minorites in Boston.
I don't have a problem with them bringing in their own guys. But why fire security guards and secretaries? Why fire good scouts? Why bring in clowns who don't have football experience?
Dejaview
All Pro
I’m glad you didn’t also. I spent decades in a large corporation’s Operations Department. We were the only ones whose job security was based on our ability to make enough money to pay salaries, stockholders, etc with enough still to grow the company. We all had dim views of certain departments let’s just say.
Dejaview
All Pro
You mean like realizing someone has a “hard on” for the McNairs.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Looking for a point, but not finding one...
Texas Jake
Rookie
I guess you're looking for the positive side of things phase has passed
Nope, things could still work out. I think they will have a top 10 offense next yr. Still doesn't mean the org isn't a clusterfvck.
It really IS just entertainment. We are consumers of it. That's all we are at the end of the day.
Even Houston Texans, Inc. said football is only a diversion, and it's their freakin' multi-billion dollar business.
Here's some perspective:
"We're a little too into sports in this country, I think we gotta throttle back. Know what I mean? People come home from these games, "We won! We won!" No, they won - you watched." ~ Jerry Seinfeld
"Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify. Because the players are always changing, the team could move to another city…you’re actually rooting for the clothes, when you get right down to it. You’re standing and cheering and yelling for your clothes to beat the clothes from another city. Fans will be so in love with a player, but if he goes to another team, they’ll boo him. This is the same human being in a different shirt, they hate him now! Boo! Different shirt! Boo…" ~ Jerry Seinfeld
I wanted to like this post, until I got to this.
I agree, no one accused Rick Smith of being racist, but now firing all "his guys" seems racist? Yeah, something not right there.
That this type of lawsuit hurts minorities, I don't know about that. Something is not right about the above situation. That needs to be sorted out.
If the article is factual, BO'b & Gaine knew there was an appearance issue.