Well I never told you that so don't know which "you guys" you are talking about
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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Well I never told you that so don't know which "you guys" you are talking about
deucetx
Rookie
While I agree with this partially in saying not everything is on the quarterback since the playcalling is shoddy but Osweiler quite a bit of blame. New OL, RB, WR would work if we were talking the first quarter of the season but we're mid-way at this point and you would expect a step forward in development when in reality he has taken a step backwards or lateral. In other words, there has been no sign of improvements. All those new pieces he should have some sort of development with at this point so that really can't be reasoning behind his play. Not to mention they have nothing to do with his lack of ability to go through progressions, stare down his targets and his ball placement which is on his own to perform to some sort of accurate measure.
As for the Hoyer comparison, the reality is Hoyer was mediocre except the playoff showing. Osweiler is not even that current. He is in the bottom quarter of the league in basically every fashion except winning which is a team stat more than an individual one like the media likes to portray. So yes, Hoyer played better even with the noodle of an arm he has. He went through progressions and did a better job placing the ball for players like Hopkins whereas Osweiler is still having issues this far into the season.
Hopefully he can turn it around but I can't say I am not seeing his issues because they are pretty obvious. Playcalling is not great but you also call plays based on the capabilities of your personnel and I don't see them showing a ton of a faith in Osweiler currently. That's just a guess though so nothing factual.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Sure, the game would have been 21-17 without the pick-6 but the interception came in the 1st 3 minutes of the game. Nobody knows what the outcome would have been without those 7 points. Maybe we're not trying to run the ball so much with a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter instead of an 11 point lead. Maybe we would have actually tried to score on that last possession instead of draining out the clock. Who knows, but to say we lose this game without it is not entirely accurate.
Who knows?
Without that pick-six, the game would have been called differently. Maybe Brock puts up 103 yards & three TDs.
I'll agree FitzHoyMallet had better stats... but they weren't better.
We're not winning because of our run game the way we did with Fitzpatrick. We're not winning because of our defense the way we did with Hoyer. We're just winning.
I'm not saying we're winning because of Osweiler, but he doesn't have the same benefits those guys had. Everybody is stepping up & doing their parts. When needed, Osweiler is doing his too.
It doesn't look pretty. I'm not proud of him, I'm not bragging on him. I expected better. But... he's not worse than Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, & Mallett. Not when we're talking about the most important stat.... Wins.
You're talking about fools gold. Nothing Hoyer has done helped his team win. Looked good, I guess. Put numbers on the board.
Kinda like Bortles. When it don't matter, he looks the part. When they need him to make a play.... not so much.
I'm not saying that Brock doesn't deserve a lot of the criticism that he's getting, but the more games he plays the more I'm convinced that McNair/Smith made the decision to sign him despite OB's thoughts on it. OB may not be actively sabotaging Os's season, but he damn sure ain't helping him any
Hoyer had a losing record here. 4-6 I think. So no, he did not play better.
A big part of the team winning is getting into the right play. That's Osweiler at the LOS. I don't know what all is going on there, but I know at the beginning of the season we had problems running the ball consistently. Now... we're consistently better. I'd still like to see improvement in running the ball in short distance situations, but now it looks like it doesn't matter who we put back there, they're going to knock off about 4~5 yards a carry.
& most of us don't like our OL, so it's got to be something. It isn't Alfred Blue's dedication to his craft.
Effectively running the ball & key plays from the QB is why we score what little we score. & I think Osweiler is doing enough of what needs to be done to win.
I'm disappointed he's not having an All-pro season & kinda upset that he's screwing up Hopkins contract negotiations... but it is what it is & it is winning football.
& if you think about it, that's why the Jags aren't winning. They've got all the pieces, but they're just not putting it together when it counts.
I felt that way about O'b & Mallett & this has some of that same feel to it. But I can't imagine O'b shooting himself in the foot like that, unless he wants to go back to college, but even then, I don't think he's on anyone's short lists.
Hopefully he sees enough in Osweiler to think he's close to "getting it" & that's why he hasn't "simplified" things for him.
But yeah, I see what you're saying.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Now I can agree with this right here^^^. OB suppose to be this QB guru, he was able to get the best out of Hoyer and Fitzpatrick. Players we all knew had big time issues with turnovers. I said this a few weeks back, just used different wording. I asked why isn't OB saving Brock from himself like he did with Fitz and Hoyer. Also how about we dummy down the playbook a tad bit until Brock really understands it.
But what I'm seeing is a quarterback that is not confident in his Oline or himself. He is playing very timid out there or he is thinking too much. Coach needs to realize this and try to help slow the game down for him. Get him into a rhythm early or something. LOL
Texas Jake
Rookie
Interesting take.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The 8 full games Hoyer started stats wise he was way better than Brock. You're only looking at the teams wins in loses but individual stats wise no sir Brock is not better. Hoyer had more yards, better passer rating and better TD/TO ratio . Man Brock can't even give us a 300 yard game right now. Better yet give us some consistency and some 200-300+ yards a game.
Thunder we are winning without him. Trust me I want to be so positive about this dude. My track record on Brock will prove that for ya. But come on man, this dude is killing us.
But individual stats don't matter. Wins/losses is what matters. Bottom line is Brock has won more games, so...
And OB has been preaching win in division for awhile. Win the division and you're in the playoffs regardless
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
3.7 yards per attempt. SMH my Lord every QB up to this point understood they had one of the best WR in the game and would let him make plays.
Osweiler routinely fastballs the football low and away to where Nuk has to do a circus one hand grab for a damn 4 yard gain.
3. <expletive> 7
Osweiler routinely fastballs the football low and away to where Nuk has to do a circus one hand grab for a damn 4 yard gain.
3. <expletive> 7
Texansballer74
The Marine
Wrong person .
Texansballer74
The Marine
One the grand scheme of things,yes winning is what matters. That wasn't my point.
My point is put both of their individual stats up together and tell me whoactually played better in 8 full time starts as a Texans.
Like I said before this team is winning in spite of Brocks hideous performance thus far.
Oh and Thunder I see you're ignoring my comments. All good buddy
I know what your point was... j/s that OB and BO don't see it that way
smh... I've been saying this about Brian Hoyer way before he started his first game as a Texan. the dude is gutless. no pressure, no meaning he was able to put up stats that don't amount to anything. play bad teams & he'll have good games. play good teams & he'll Hoyer it up.
put Hoyer on last year's Broncos in place of Osweiler & they don't go 5-2, not against the Chiefs, Steelers, Bengals, & Patriots.
Stat-wise yeah, Hoyer put up better stats. but Osweiler is 6-3 as our starter, Hoyer was benched in his first game, & should have been benched in his last game.
I'm not ignoring anything (which comment you talking about?). unfortunately I've got real world sht I have to deal with & I'm typing with my thumbs.
as far as winning in spite of Brock, I'm not seeing it. I just rewatched the game. Godsey was calling the plays. remember the third & 13 Fiedorowicz catches a six yard pass, then you see O'b on the sideline telling everyone to calm down? all the receivers broke their routes off five yards in, looking for the ball.
several times I saw two or three receivers in the same spot. then they went to running some stupid routes, run to a spot, stop & turn waiting for the ball. against man coverage... that's no way to get receivers open.
then, there were some good series, the two missed field goals. it was like O'b was calling the plays. bunch formations, Hop in motion, a good mix of run & pass.
& really, Brock didn't look too bad. maybe three poorly thrown balls, a couple of throw aways, a few drops, Braxton playing like a matador on one in particular.
stats don't look good, but Osweiler looked good to me. Not good as in MVP, but good as in competent.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In the last 3 games, the RB conglomerate average yds/carry is 4.82.............in the same period Osweiler has averaged 4.2 yds/attempt.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Surely an improvement over last season with all the speed we've added...?
Texansballer74
The Marine
We don't know that for sure so let's not throw in a blanket statement like that dude. The Broncos defense was the main component in those wins. All Brock did was game manage. The only game Brock put his stamp on was against the Patriots. So to say they wouldn't have went 5-2 with Hoyer is ludicrous at best.
And let's not forget in the 1st 4 games last year the defense was a hot mess and so was our special team. Bwhahaha
I love how so many fans want to play down Hoyer stats because the entire team was beeped up in the beginning of the season. And since we are 6-3 with Brock oh we can ignore his piss poor play because we are winning. That makes no freaking sense whatsoever. Because that nonsense is not going to cut it in the playoffs. Shoots it's not even cutting it against stiffer competition. We are 0-3 against better competition.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Brock is not playing competent football right now. I don't know what the hell some fans are looking at.
Again I'm on record of showing some hope for the rest of the season.
Again I'm on record of showing some hope for the rest of the season.
has anyone said he is? Stop trying to read in between the lines
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Brian T Smith makes two points here: 1) Godsey secretly resumed playcalling. 2) Osweiler's production is unacceptable.
Link
I'm going to be blunt at the risk of sounding alarmist: The Bill O'Brien era is revealing itself to be a fiasco after three years of patterns. O'Brien's tenure started with the expected transitional-period confusion, but has meandered through two additional years of bad-decision-making confusion.
And now he just ninja-promoted Godsey back to calling plays. Ok, sure, what does it matter? I've lost the expectation of integrity anyway. Might as well have Lechler in charge of the challenge flags full time -- or even clock management, or deciding when to kneel the ball instead of running it unnecessarily.
I can hear O'Brien getting miffy at critics for harping on details. I wonder what is Belichick's philosophy regarding attention to detail.
And this Osweiler thing is just another symptom of a root problem: O'Brien cannot be trusted to evaluate talent, and he's not even aware of this critical deficiency. "This city should be proud of those two [unaccomplished] quarterbacks out there." Yes, a man who gets paid millions to make decisions actually said that.
I'd rather be proud of Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, or Teddy Bridgewater.
So if Osweiler gets hurt and Savage lights it up, is Savage also "Basically still a rookie."? After all, he's had much less clipboard hours and starting reps. I guaran-damn-tee you he will know how to get the ball to Hopkins.
Every start with Osweiler going forward is wasted time and wasted mileage on the careers of these players. His inaccuracy and his mechanics cannot be fixed this far into his career. And if they could be, this isn't the coaching staff to do it.
Link
I'm going to be blunt at the risk of sounding alarmist: The Bill O'Brien era is revealing itself to be a fiasco after three years of patterns. O'Brien's tenure started with the expected transitional-period confusion, but has meandered through two additional years of bad-decision-making confusion.
And now he just ninja-promoted Godsey back to calling plays. Ok, sure, what does it matter? I've lost the expectation of integrity anyway. Might as well have Lechler in charge of the challenge flags full time -- or even clock management, or deciding when to kneel the ball instead of running it unnecessarily.
I can hear O'Brien getting miffy at critics for harping on details. I wonder what is Belichick's philosophy regarding attention to detail.
And this Osweiler thing is just another symptom of a root problem: O'Brien cannot be trusted to evaluate talent, and he's not even aware of this critical deficiency. "This city should be proud of those two [unaccomplished] quarterbacks out there." Yes, a man who gets paid millions to make decisions actually said that.
I'd rather be proud of Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, or Teddy Bridgewater.
So if Osweiler gets hurt and Savage lights it up, is Savage also "Basically still a rookie."? After all, he's had much less clipboard hours and starting reps. I guaran-damn-tee you he will know how to get the ball to Hopkins.
Every start with Osweiler going forward is wasted time and wasted mileage on the careers of these players. His inaccuracy and his mechanics cannot be fixed this far into his career. And if they could be, this isn't the coaching staff to do it.
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austins23
Hall of Fame
You would have too. That ball was heading for his nether regions at about 130 mph! Even Gannon said during the telecast that that ball was just a rocket.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Another performance or two like this last one, and I foresee a mysterious injury that lands him on the bench............or, just as likely, a teammate pulling a Tonya Harding, not so mysteriously landing him on IR.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
bwhahahahaha I'm pretty sure you would. And I will laugh my butt off and then tell you to put down the crack.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Defending the Texans by saying "hey look at their record" is like telling your kid it's ok to keep having unprotected sex because they haven't gotten pregnant or contracted an STD yet.
Results matter true enough. But never ignore in victory what you wouldn't in defeat. Oh.....and all it takes is one time.
Results matter true enough. But never ignore in victory what you wouldn't in defeat. Oh.....and all it takes is one time.
No, no it's not.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
you must not have any kids
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
A reasonable approach would be for O'Brien to say, "We're just sitting Brock for a couple of games so he can learn." Then Savage blows up the stat sheet and O'Brien can then claim to go with the hot hand.
If the round that you are drafted in does not negate merit, then neither should your contract.
If 3rd rounder Ben Tate had not gotten injured in his rookie preseason, would Kubiak had insisted on starting him over undrafted Arian despite Arian's better performance? If Tom Savage demonstrates how one gets a football to Deandre Hopkins 13 times a game for 200 yards, is Brock's contract still a factor?
Brock isn't underdeveloped. He's just spoiled goods.
Any experienced business owner can attest that profit covers up a lot of problems -- problems that won't get fixed when the company's in the black. But when the profits drop, it's like a tide lowering and revealing the bodies at the bottom.
Except we've already seen the ugly losses that reveal the problems. The games don't suddenly become fun to watch just because the tide rose again. We've seen the bodies.
I'm just living in the now.
I'm not going to be upset because we might get blown out in a game eight weeks from now. Heck, I don't even "know" that we will be playing a game 8 weeks from now.
I understand this isn't a top 3 team in this league, but I still like watching them overcome their issues.
kinda like watching Predator. you know that part in the movie where they realize they're not the baddest mofo's in the jungle... but they gotta keep on keeping on? To me, that's when the movie got good.
not the part where they strolled into the rebel camp guns blazing kicking butt & taking names.
I don't leave the theater thinking, "damn, he lost his whole team." I'm thinking, "damn... he made it."
I'm not going to be upset because we might get blown out in a game eight weeks from now. Heck, I don't even "know" that we will be playing a game 8 weeks from now.
I understand this isn't a top 3 team in this league, but I still like watching them overcome their issues.
kinda like watching Predator. you know that part in the movie where they realize they're not the baddest mofo's in the jungle... but they gotta keep on keeping on? To me, that's when the movie got good.
not the part where they strolled into the rebel camp guns blazing kicking butt & taking names.
I don't leave the theater thinking, "damn, he lost his whole team." I'm thinking, "damn... he made it."
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
First bold section - I can't help but have a gloomy outlook because I know where this is heading - despite beating the ok teams, getting curb stomped against the better teams and probably making the playoffs only to get clubbed like a baby seal.
This is like a movie to me also. But It's more like police academy part 5. The first one wasnt very good but I left with a smile but every sequel just gets more predicatable and stupid.
Texansballer74
The Marine
This team is mediocre at best and I can live with that. In the beginning I was really hoping we would be at least a top 10 ten. And to be honest we would be if we had a competent quarterback.
driller80545
Noob
How damn long does it take before it is not a new offense? The season is half over. This excuse is getting thin. What seems to be coming clearer and clearer is that Os was a mistake that probably wouldln't have happened had he had more playing time in Denver.
Yep, everything said rings true. Especially Brock being spoiled and he is beginning to rot. He isn't just bad he is historically bad.
Now to be fair BOB/Godsey may also be historically bad from an offensive standpoint. Last couple of year's results tend to make you think it is not all coaching/scheme. Fitz/Mallett/Keenum (2014) ;Hoyer/Mallett/Yates/Weeden (2015) didn't look consistently as bad as Brock.
Wow what a list of QBs BOB/Smith have brought in and believed in. McNair look at this list. Really!!!! C'mon MAN!!!!!!!
Time to get some answers for the future.
We already know about Brock for this year. Let him sit before he is a broken QB. May already be there. Maybe off season he can figure out how to throw the ball again and get some confidence back but presently it is all falling apart for him. BOB/Rick are keeping him in for purely personal reasons or they really can't see the truth. It may be the latter because they sure haven't made a good decision on QBs since being at Texans. See above list.
Is Savage worth anything? Put him in and find out. Personally I think way over his head and his lack of mobility and experience will make it very hard for him to succeed. He may be able to throw more accurately and quicker ( a given) read the defense, know the offense better, and be more poised than BO (not a high bar) and probably will be better than Brock. Let's find out!!!!!
Is Weeden the answer for this year? Put him in and find out if Savage fails.
Brock will not finish the season as the starter even if he stays healthy. He will be pulled for some reason, mysterious injury or maybe just pulled at some point if he stays healthy. My opinion.
Even BOB/Rick and McNair will come to this conclusion at some point.
This ^^^^
I'm with you. At the beginning of the season folks were saying, give 'em time to gel. We should be rolling smoothly around or after the bye.
Well, it's after the bye.
Are we rolling smoothly yet?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Totally playing devil's advocate here, but three of those QB's you listed were starters for other teams this year and a fourth backs up Joe Flacco. Probably says more to the state of QB's in the league today, I know. Just pointing out what seems improbable considering the last few years on the Texans.
LoL
I used to have one of those.
...a lifetime ago
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Ahh for post-it notes? NICE.LoL
I used to have one of those.
...a lifetime ago
QB rating 2016 > 69 pass completions
30 Keenum 76.8
31 BO 74.1
32 Gabbert 69.6
33 Fitz 67.6
11 Hoyer 98
Mallett can hold a mean clip board.
3 out of bottom 4 in whole NFL ain't bad for the BRAIN TRUST of the Houston Texans
The Texans need to get some answers in reference to what they have at QB on the team presently and more than likely they will upgrade from BO if they make change and if not nothing lost.
Save face, save job, really think BO is answer, never admit to McNair they are wrong.......
Give you reason on why no change.