paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Oh boy....
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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Oh boy....
The lesson here is that if you want to make the easiest $215 of your life, post a joke fundraiser.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jayson Braddock has presented some interesting stats:
Osweiler on passes thrown 21-30 yards:
............5 for 17 (29.4%) for 144 yards 3 TDs 0 INT 102.0 rating
Osweiler on passes thrown 11-20 yards:
...........23 for 52 (44.2%) for 388 yds 2 TDs 6 INTs 43.3 rating
Brock's 4 fourth qtr TDs
Colts(2) Fiedorowicz post & Lamar catch & run
Bears - Fuller tunnel screen & run
Vikings - Hopkins garbage time
Looking at some splits on Brock Osweiler:
Quarters 1-3: 4 TDs 8 INTs
Quarter 4: 4 TDs 0 INTs
Texas Jake
Rookie
Something to think about. The first couple of years Moon was here a lot of critques were calling him a bust. I am not saying Brock is another Warren Moon, but no matter how ugly he looks right now (and that is pretty ugly) there is still hope.
I agree.
You know people point out that he's not a rookie & that he's making $18M/yr, he should not be performing the way he is.
He's not a rookie. That's true. At the same time, he doesn't have a lot of experience either. I didn't expect him to light up the league like Dak Prescott or Carson Wentz has, but I didn't expect it to be as bad as it has. Maybe the issues we had on the OL & the newness of the WRs fed into that. But starting now, 8 games into the season he needs to show marked improvement in his play. There isn't a defense tougher than the ones he's played already, he should at least have an idea of how the players around him will perform, & just like the coaches, it's time for him to start making lemonade.
He's making $18M/yr. & the reason he's making $18M/yr is because he made plays in crunch time on a team playing the best of the AFC (4 playoff teams) in an effort to attain HFA throughout. We're entering that part of the season, where we're playing for not only a playoff berth, but seeding. It would be helpful to get a first week bye, but we're going to have to win 12 or 13 games to do it. With only one playoff team from last season, (4 possible 2016 playoff teams), it's not going to be easy. We'll have to win out for 13 games. We'll have to win 8 of 9 to finish with 12 wins.
Not likely to happen... but if it does, $18M sounds about right.
No doubt, our defense is going to have to pick it up. Our RBs are going to have to take it to another level. But Brock is going to have to play a whole lot better than he has so far.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
^^What?
False Start
On # 69
Max
Veteran
Awwwwww..........so sweet.
Just giving you a hard time, but I hear you. We don't need Tom Brady. We just need the good Brock that we've seen at times this year and to see it consistently.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Brock Osweiler's lack of confidence affecting play, sources say
7:25 AM CT
Of all the challenges now confronting Houston Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler, one of the most significant involves his confidence, according to league sources.
NFL executives and coaches who have watched Osweiler play believe he has lost confidence, and it has affected his play. They pointed to one particular throw during Monday night's loss to his former team, the Denver Broncos, when Osweiler had one of his tight ends wide open and missed him by about 3 yards. One source said he believed Osweiler's inaccuracy is a direct result of his lack of assurance in his abilities.
Brock Osweiler is completing 58.2 percent of his passes this season with 8 touchdowns and 8 interceptions. Dustin Bradford
Monday night's loss was Osweiler's first game in Denver since leaving to sign a four-year, $72 million contract with the Texans during the offseason. He finished 22-for-41 for 131 yards without a touchdown and also fumbled early in the fourth quarter, putting the game out of reach for Houston.
He has completed 58.2 percent of his pass attempts this season, throwing eight touchdowns and eight interceptions.
Texans coach Bill O'Brien is one of the league's top quarterback gurus, but also is very demanding. Regardless of whether O'Brien's style is affecting Osweiler's performance, those who have watched the Texans quarterback believe his confidence has taken a hit.
7:25 AM CT
- Adam Schefter ESPN Senior Writer
Of all the challenges now confronting Houston Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler, one of the most significant involves his confidence, according to league sources.
NFL executives and coaches who have watched Osweiler play believe he has lost confidence, and it has affected his play. They pointed to one particular throw during Monday night's loss to his former team, the Denver Broncos, when Osweiler had one of his tight ends wide open and missed him by about 3 yards. One source said he believed Osweiler's inaccuracy is a direct result of his lack of assurance in his abilities.
Brock Osweiler is completing 58.2 percent of his passes this season with 8 touchdowns and 8 interceptions. Dustin Bradford
Monday night's loss was Osweiler's first game in Denver since leaving to sign a four-year, $72 million contract with the Texans during the offseason. He finished 22-for-41 for 131 yards without a touchdown and also fumbled early in the fourth quarter, putting the game out of reach for Houston.
He has completed 58.2 percent of his pass attempts this season, throwing eight touchdowns and eight interceptions.
Texans coach Bill O'Brien is one of the league's top quarterback gurus, but also is very demanding. Regardless of whether O'Brien's style is affecting Osweiler's performance, those who have watched the Texans quarterback believe his confidence has taken a hit.
Texas Jake
Rookie
JWLCASPER,
Looks like you have some experts are agreeing with what you said weeks ago.
disregard the QBR for Brock. That's passer rating, his QBR is most likely much lower, just hadn't been updated on ESPN yet. When it is, I'll fix this.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
His confidence in himself is why we signed him in the first place, because he manned up and performed in crunch situations. The lack of confidence is stemming from playcalling, misinformation between receivers and Brock on option routes, and our lack of stability on the line. I will continue to say Brock has looked like garbage for the most part, but when everything comes together later this year and into next year I feel he is better than good Flacco and on par with good Eli. Eli has been my comparison from the start with natural talent and wow throws which are followed by some of the dumbest throws/decisions you will ever see. It's the nature of "I can win this game for my team" mentality. Instead of Alex Smith or Teddy Bridgewater who won't lose games but won't necessarily win them either, we have someone who wants the ball when it matters and we will sink or swim with that confidence. We have been wading at the moment after getting crashed by big waves ( Vikings, Patriots, Broncos) but staying afloat with other "average" teams. 5-0 at home is nothing to scoff at, and we may be hitting our swimming portion of the schedule now.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Osweiler competed 68.9% of his passes. 1 TD/1 INT/ Sacked three times.
Max
Veteran
I already know that part of this take is going to catch heat, but here it goes. I think Brock turned the corner with his confidence issues in the 4th corner vs Indy. I'm basing my take mostly on what I can see of his pocket presence. He's been skewered for the Denver game, but I had a different take than most people -- I thought he looked much better than he was portrayed. That game was as close to a playoff game as you can get in the regular season with the national spotlight and the storyline of playing his old team. How did he respond? To me, he looked calm as hell in the pocket. The fumble throw is when things fell apart, but if that call had been ruled an incomplete pass (which I still don't understand how it wasn't), and if Blue hadn't fumbled the ball, there may have been a different storyline coming out of the game other than Brock sucks. If, if, if ... I know -- the only reason I'm bringing up those points is to say that Brock had his composure in a very big game until the game was beyond his control.
There was nothing remarkable about his performance in my mind today, but also nothing that made me feel like he's not capable of developing into a good qb. Something very positive may have come out of this game -- the ball bounced his way today and to my recollection that hasn't happened so far this year. He struggled w/ accuracy with several throws but he was bailed out by some great catches by Hop twice and Fuller once that I can remember. This can only help in the confidence arena. I feel like we're going to see a much better Brock coming out of the bye. But I've been wrong before.
There was nothing remarkable about his performance in my mind today, but also nothing that made me feel like he's not capable of developing into a good qb. Something very positive may have come out of this game -- the ball bounced his way today and to my recollection that hasn't happened so far this year. He struggled w/ accuracy with several throws but he was bailed out by some great catches by Hop twice and Fuller once that I can remember. This can only help in the confidence arena. I feel like we're going to see a much better Brock coming out of the bye. But I've been wrong before.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Os sucks and the only way he's going to suck less is if Fuller learns to catch the ball regularly and Nuk figures out how to anticipate where the goofy giraffe ************ is going to throw the ball which (unlike Fuller learning to catch regularly) may actually happen because Nuk's shown some stuff that borders on super powers but I still don't think Os is going to stop sucking enough to beat actual good teams with good defenses.
It's the worst possible situation. He's not a franchise QB and very early in a frachise QB's contract so the team is going to keep giving him the benefit of the doubt for at least another year and most likely two.
It's the worst possible situation. He's not a franchise QB and very early in a frachise QB's contract so the team is going to keep giving him the benefit of the doubt for at least another year and most likely two.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
If he's going to develop into a good QB he's going to have to start placing the ball better, and through 8 games now, he's just not gotten any better at it. The juggling catch by Nuk was a poor throw. The pick should have been a TD if it wasn't such a poor throw. I mean that's what now, 7 of his 9 INTs trying to get the ball to Hopkins? I find it hard to believe it's on Nuk when it didn't seem to be much of a problem with the crap they had last year.
And those are just 2 I can think of off the top of my head having seen it in person.
The suck part is, he can make throws. I recall a couple up the seam, one to Griffin I know, was a very nice ball.
I really want to like this guy, I want him to do good, but I'm just not seeing it yet. He's horrible at putting the ball where his receivers can make a play on any kind of consistent basis.
I still think he's trying to aim the ball, especially to Nuk because he's supposed to have a monster year
Max
Veteran
I agree w/ the bolded and mentioned his accuracy in my post -- this is an obvious reason that he may not develop into a good qb -- so I deserve getting called out on that. He was inaccurate several times today yet completed 69% of his passes -- nothing to be unhappy about there. I mentioned that he got bailed out on several of those catches but I also remember a few balls that should have been caught so most of the time he was accurate, but when he was off, he was way off. I am not convinced that the interception was a bad throw. I thought it was a back shoulder throw that Nuk turned to the inside. They showed the sidelines after the play and Brock was explaining himself to Nuk and it didn't look like he was saying 'my bad' -- more like you should have done something else. I could be wrong on that and am interested in hearing anyone else's take. I think some of his throws are being labeled as inaccurate when it's as simple as not being on the same page as the receiver. Some throws are more obvious that he's just off and there's definitely room for improvement. I don't think it's fair to say that he's not improving though after completing 69% -- we'll see if he gets better as he continues to get experience with his receivers.
I didn't watch but did get to listen on the radio. They said Hops had his man beat and the throw should have been over the top, not back shoulder. Os basically threw to the CB's hip. Os still has much to learn and much to improve. He does show signs tho. And the playcalling is improving a bit
Max
Veteran
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016103004/2016/REG8/lions@texans#menu=gameinfo|contentId:0ap3000000730204&tab=videos At 26 seconds, it looks like the ball is released before Hop turns his head -- the ball is thrown to the outside shoulder but Hop keeps going up field. Single man coverage -- the read to throw it to Hop is the right read. To me it just looks like they weren't on the same page.
klockWork
Rookie
No matter the route, it was the wrong read by the QB anytime the pass is in the defender area. The replay clearly shows the cb was cheating outside and underneath. You don't make that backshoulder throw unless you're a QB that doesn't process field information like Brock has been doing.
So let's say Nuk and Brock were on the same page on that play. That cb is still going to be there, staying home, hips still opened and eyeing the QB. He will see the ball release before our WR will. The best case scenario is Nuk will recognize his man jumping his route and will instead try to break up the int.
My question is what scenario are you seeing that I don't see that could be of beneficiary for Brock for making that pass?
Max
Veteran
If Hop can't beat single man coverage -- we've figured out the problem and it ain't Brock. W/ Hop and Brock on the same page on that play you've got an incomplete pass at worst and a reception at best.
Max
Veteran
My comment initially was that Brock's throw isn't inaccurate if he's throwing back shoulder which is what it looked like to me (Barber commented on it being a back shoulder throw as well). I then mentioned that single coverage on Hop is the correct read. If folks want to argue about that – great. If Os can’t throw to Hop in single coverage, who can he throw to? The other thing that I’ve said is that Brock and Hop aren’t on the same page which may very well mean that Brock made a bad throw, but I don’t know what their collective read is supposed to be on that play. If it’s supposed to be up field with no safety help (which there wasn’t), then it’s on Os. If it’s back shoulder irregardless of safety help – then it’s on Hop. I’m not going to pretend that I know.
Max
Veteran
Ronde Barber and Chris Myers discussed that Brock and Hop aren't on the same page -- Hop is going up field and Os back shoulder -- you hear it at the end of the clip I posted. I still don't know who's fault it was, I'm just trying to give him a fair shake and he's not really gotten that around here IMO. When guys are pointing at a play like this as an example of how 'Brock sucks' -- it shows how ignorant they are (I understand you're not saying that). To me, this play is a prime example of how Brock and his receivers aren't on the same page yet -- it only stands to reason that this will improve with experience. Whether or not his accuracy improves remains to be seen but I think we saw progress this afternoon.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I re-watched the play. Lions were playing cover-two man, press. From my understanding of our offensive scheme, the WR has a choice of which route to run, depending on the coverage, so extremely important for the QB & WR to be on the same page. Nuk read go-route, while Brock read back-shoulder. We (fans) don't really know who made the wrong read. Considering they were playing cover-two, though, a go route there makes the least sense to me.
Now it's a fair argument to say, even if Nuk did expect the back-shoulder, the CB was in good position to defend the pass. That's true, but TBH, I think Nuk makes the catch anyways or draws a PI. Nuk is extremely difficult to cover on those type of plays.
If I had to guess, though, Brock didn't want to make that throw, but a Lions DT played a stunt with the DE. It even looks like the Lions DE got away with a hold on Clark, so the DT could go clean to Brock. Considering it was 3rd down, I think the pressure forced Brock to make the throw anyways.
IMO, lots of blame to go around on this play...
- I think Nuk ran the wrong route. I admit, just a guess on my part.
- Refs should have called defensive holding on the Lions DE
- Brock should have been aware of the situation and not make that throw. Already up 14, should have been more conservative, and just get the 3 points.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Brock's long wind up puts a permanent ceiling on his potential. We're due for more mediocrity hell with this guy.
There are two things that make me hopeful about Os. One: most of his INTs came from throwing to Hopkins and most of those were because they weren't on the same page. They need to develope chemistry and only way to do that is by time. Won't be long before they know what the other one is thinking.
And two: Os has shown plenty of bad so far - but he consistently was good in the 4th and OT. One of the most important things for a QB in my opinion is to shine when the game is on the line. Eli is a great example of that - not a great QB, plenty of mistakes, but he made plays when it mattered and that's how he got two rings. Not saying Os is on his level, but at least it seems like he is clutch.
And let's not forget: so far he has started 15 games. In those games he has been sacked almost 50 times. Lots of young QBs would struggle under those circumstances - he needs to get used to the speed of the NBA in real game action. Not saying he will develope into a real good QB, just saying it's too early to tell...
And two: Os has shown plenty of bad so far - but he consistently was good in the 4th and OT. One of the most important things for a QB in my opinion is to shine when the game is on the line. Eli is a great example of that - not a great QB, plenty of mistakes, but he made plays when it mattered and that's how he got two rings. Not saying Os is on his level, but at least it seems like he is clutch.
And let's not forget: so far he has started 15 games. In those games he has been sacked almost 50 times. Lots of young QBs would struggle under those circumstances - he needs to get used to the speed of the NBA in real game action. Not saying he will develope into a real good QB, just saying it's too early to tell...
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I believe I might have an idea where Os's problems are coming from. He's playing football in the NBA and that's never gonna work.
thetexanator
Veteran
deontay hopkins ran the wrong route. it was clearly a back hip throw and there goes hopkins trying to get paid by going for a td. undisciplined. all of osweilers ints are when hes throwing to hopkins.
Watch that clip again...
I think the pass rush caused that pick. The clock is at 39 secs at the snap. Right before it counted down to 37, the D-lineman was in Osweiler's face. Osweiler didn't have time to wait for Hopkins to stop wrestling with the DB and get deep - didja notice how long it took Hopkins to get around the DB? Took him a full second. You have to think that delay getting off the line threw the timing of the whole play completely off.
Bottom line both the DL (getting in Osweiler's face so quick) and the DB (seriously slowing Hopkins' release off the LoS) combined to make a good defensive play and create a turnover.
....but is the train headed in the proper direction?
There's always that one little thing...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Very underrated post right here. The bolded is what defenses are doing to all of our WR's and Nuk especially hasn't been handling it well. The refs are letting these db's be extremely physical with him at the LOS & 5 yd cushion area & too often on these int's, NUK is struggling just to get off the cb and get his head around and/or get separation. Allen Robinson in Jax, another guy that's not gonna blow you away with speed & whom specializes in making the contested catches is having the same issues.
Don't get me wrong, Brock's got to get better placement, but I think he keeps making these throws anticipating that Nuk is either gonna win the battle, or draw a PI & neither is really happening with enough frequency to warrant forcing him the rock.
I think this is most right. Lots of stuff going on there, hard to say what Hop or Brock is thinking. Against that coverage, Nuk is probably supposed to get on top of the DB & run to the end zone, Bock may even have signaled it before the snap. But it takes too long for Hopkins to get away from the defender. imo that play should have been flagged for defensive holding, especially if they're going to call the one on Clowney. this one was even worse.
Brock probably called the go route... Nuk vs press coverage, safety way over near center... that's what I would do. He probably also read blitz & knew the ball had to come out on time.
looks to me, the defender was still on top & pawing Hopkins when the ball was thrown, he may have thought he'd get a flag.
Since it looks like a back shoulder throw when the ball leaves his hand, I'm going to say he assumed Hopkins saw what he saw.
At the same time, Hopkins should have known with the blitz on, the ball is coming out on time. He should have looked for the ball, like the defender did, granted he was facing the QB so it's easier for him.
The main thing I took away from that play though, is why don't our defenders do that. Well, we'd probably be called for PI, but when there's an opportunity for an INT, we're the almost team.
Scooter
Funky
Just wanted to bump this. QBR was 57.3
Edit: hmm, might have to teach me how to turn the link into a picture.
Scooter
Funky
Wanted to add this to the previous post, and pose the question to anyone willing to do such research - is Brock the worst QB that each of our 8 opponents have faced?
In 8 games he has multiple touchdowns in only 3 (two TD's). Has thrown an interception in all but one (in which he fumbled an interception lol). Has over 200 yards in only half of his games, no 300yd games. Total QBR to this point is 50 according to Pro Football Reference.
As I googled Brock for his stats, the top news headline is McNair calling Oz 'still basically a rookie'. No. Dak is a rookie. Wentz is a rookie. Siemien is 'still basically a rookie' since he came into the season with zero pass attempts. All have done a heck of a lot more than Oz, who is in his 5th season, put 7 games under his belt as a starter last year, and has learned from quite literally the best in the business between Peyton, Elway and Kubiak. To assume Brock is in any way relatable to a rookie is insulting ... both to the fans, and to the actual rookies.
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The bolded tells me (and it may only be me) that it was pretty much a McNair call to specifically go get Osweiler. You don't make excuses like that unless you're defending a call you made.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That's the thing, most fans do not factor in the entire picture. They focus in on one aspect of the puzzle.
I'm uploading the image from my computer, the site views it as an attachment (which it is, I'm using the "upload a file" button, then choosing full image & that's why it shows up the way it does.
If you want to reference it somewhere else, you should be able to just right click & copy image address.
I don't know why it doesn't show up automatically when you quote the post...
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
If Brock is basically a rookie, then Savage is still a college senior.