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O'Brien: Keenum slightly ahead of Savage

Savage like some QB's needs a good OL to develop behind. His reads are slow at the moment but it's possible the game would eventually slow down for him and then the final stages of his development would begin. If he achieved this in a season and a half or even if it took two.....its not the end of the world, only the beginning. Used to be, QB's got a season on the sideline and weren't expected to torch the NFL in their first season, now....it's we needed that yesterday!!!
 
Dang after being in the NFL for four years and playing some games before this season , you seriously think the game might slow down for him. Just face it OptimisticTexan, your boy is not who you thought and said he would be. But hey props to you for still standing in the gap for one of your favorite players.
 
The problem is the NFL expects QBs to figure it out in < 4 games. They need a proper development league like the minor leagues in baseball, or the D-League in the NBA. Guys like Savage should have been playing for 3 years against other guys, instead of learning to be a QB while wearing a head set.

The overall quality of the NFL has declined in the past few years because of this. The game has evolved to be a pass happy league and the college QBs aren't making any reads in college. I don't see it changing any time soon either, but as the patience of coaches and front offices wears thin, we will see more QBs who could have made it get passed over because they didn't "get it" in the first 5 games.

I'm happy for Keenum, hopefully he lands with a team and gets to stay. I think if someone gives Savage a shot next season, and gives him protection, he can do stuff. I think he has upside, but he requires protection and Watson can work around that.
 
hradhak said:
The problem is the NFL expects QBs to figure it out in < 4 games. They need a proper development league like the minor leagues in baseball, or the D-League in the NBA. Guys like Savage should have been playing for 3 years against other guys, instead of learning to be a QB while wearing a head set.

The overall quality of the NFL has declined in the past few years because of this. The game has evolved to be a pass happy league and the college QBs aren't making any reads in college. I don't see it changing any time soon either, but as the patience of coaches and front offices wears thin, we will see more QBs who could have made it get passed over because they didn't "get it" in the first 5 games.

I'm happy for Keenum, hopefully he lands with a team and gets to stay. I think if someone gives Savage a shot next season, and gives him protection, he can do stuff. I think he has upside, but he requires protection and Watson can work around that.
Click to expand...


The thing with Case Keenum was he did get it in his first 5 games. He was just on a team that was spiraling into the ground and folding up shop/preparing for the offseason all around him. He came out of the gate with 8 TD's and 2 picks in his first 5 games. It didn't matter. They didn't win any games so he was cast aside. That's the reality of the NFL. Results. Now.
 
hradhak said:
The problem is the NFL expects QBs to figure it out in < 4 games. They need a proper development league like the minor leagues in baseball, or the D-League in the NBA. Guys like Savage should have been playing for 3 years against other guys, instead of learning to be a QB while wearing a head set.

The overall quality of the NFL has declined in the past few years because of this. The game has evolved to be a pass happy league and the college QBs aren't making any reads in college. I don't see it changing any time soon either, but as the patience of coaches and front offices wears thin, we will see more QBs who could have made it get passed over because they didn't "get it" in the first 5 games.

I'm happy for Keenum, hopefully he lands with a team and gets to stay. I think if someone gives Savage a shot next season, and gives him protection, he can do stuff. I think he has upside, but he requires protection and Watson can work around that.
Click to expand...

The problem I think teams have with something like a developmental league is the increased risk for injury in a contact sport such as football. In Baseball and Basketball, sure the risk is there, but limited. You don't want your shiny new QB taking a bad hit in a developmental league where players are trying to make it to the big time so might over do a hit, hit a QB late, etc etc trying to make their squad.
 
Hervoyel said:
The thing with Case Keenum was he did get it in his first 5 games. He was just on a team that was spiraling into the ground and folding up shop/preparing for the offseason all around him. He came out of the gate with 8 TD's and 2 picks in his first 5 games. It didn't matter. They didn't win any games so he was cast aside. That's the reality of the NFL. Results. Now.
Click to expand...

I wasn’t a fan of what Kubiak did at that position his last year here.

It was obvious Schaub was done.

Keenum had his warts but he was a first time starter, was young, but he made some plays.

It’s all moot now and we have the better player. Just interesting to look back at things and wonder about alternate realities.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I wasn’t a fan of what Kubiak did at that position his last year here.

It was obvious Schaub was done.

Keenum had his warts but he was a first time starter, was young, but he made some plays.

It’s all moot now and we have the better player. Just interesting to look back at things and wonder about alternate realities.
Click to expand...


Well, to me the worst thing that happened to Keenum was that he found himself on Jeff Fisher's team and that's where offensive players go to die apparently. That he survived that and managed to get on in Minnesota and turn his career around is amazing to me. The guy must have a near infinite supply of "want to" or something. I agree we finally ended up in a better place probably (almost certainly from a talent perspective) but like I originally said. It sure would be nice to have had Keenum to fall back on when Watson went down.
 
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Perki-Perk said:
The problem I think teams have with something like a developmental league is the increased risk for injury in a contact sport such as football. In Baseball and Basketball, sure the risk is there, but limited. You don't want your shiny new QB taking a bad hit in a developmental league where players are trying to make it to the big time so might over do a hit, hit a QB late, etc etc trying to make their squad.
Click to expand...

So put the QB in a red jersey and go to flag football rules on him...

I don't see it happening either, but there's always a compromise
 
Perki-Perk said:
The problem I think teams have with something like a developmental league is the increased risk for injury in a contact sport such as football. In Baseball and Basketball, sure the risk is there, but limited. You don't want your shiny new QB taking a bad hit in a developmental league where players are trying to make it to the big time so might over do a hit, hit a QB late, etc etc trying to make their squad.
Click to expand...

NFL Europe did not seem to have that problem. It just wasn't profitable.

Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson among QBs whose careers took off in NFL Europe
 
Texansballer74 said:
Dang after being in the NFL for four years and playing some games before this season , you seriously think the game might slow down for him. Just face it OptimisticTexan, your boy is not who you thought and said he would be. But hey props to you for still standing in the gap for one of your favorite players.
Click to expand...

You know, I stood by Keenum in the same manner and it appears to be turning around for him in Minnesota. No doubt, Savage will get his next shot with another team in 2018. I wouldn't be horribly shocked to see him land in NE as long shot who just happens to have a general understanding of their offense and will xome very cheap...doesn't hurt that Garappolo is gone as well.

It's a shame that the TExans and Bills didn't come to the same conclusion in regards to their QB's before the trade deadline. Savage to the Bills and Taylor to the Texans...the swap of failed experiments.
 
steelbtexan said:
But Savage knows the offense.
Click to expand...
Quote-walk-the-path.jpg


:D
 
OptimisticTexan said:
You know, I stood by Keenum in the same manner and it appears to be turning around for him in Minnesota. No doubt, Savage will get his next shot with another team in 2018. I wouldn't be horribly shocked to see him land in NE as long shot who just happens to have a general understanding of their offense and will xome very cheap...doesn't hurt that Garappolo is gone as well.

It's a shame that the TExans and Bills didn't come to the same conclusion in regards to their QB's before the trade deadline. Savage to the Bills and Taylor to the Texans...the swap of failed experiments.
Click to expand...


Let's not ping the Bills and Tyrod into this mess here in Houston. Savage is nowhere close to the talent of TT. The Bills situation is total different. I would not call their current situation a failure. But I would say they are making a big ash mistake. TT is having a solid year and that benching is unwarranted. Savage on the other hand is not even a back up in this league. And you can best believe the Patriots will be drafting a QB in either the 2nd or 3rd rounds. They will not entertain this Tom Savage character. Have you not watched his starts this season? And Case situation was totally different as well.
 
There sure is a lot of interest in Keenum all of a sudden, but we can't get him, and if we did, he wouldn't save this ship. Too many leaks.
 
Hervoyel said:
The thing with Case Keenum was he did get it in his first 5 games. He was just on a team that was spiraling into the ground and folding up shop/preparing for the offseason all around him. He came out of the gate with 8 TD's and 2 picks in his first 5 games. It didn't matter. They didn't win any games so he was cast aside. That's the reality of the NFL. Results. Now.
Click to expand...
I think that more of Keenum's problems here was that others "didn't get it."
 
When I lived in Powys, Ca in the late 90's I used to call into the local Sports Radio Show and have some decent and bring up the need of a developmental league. I was coming from a different angle though. My points:

1. Every group who thought they could compete with the NFL (Except for old AFL) failed miserably. NFL is far too strong to compete with.

2. I think the biggest market available for competition is College Football. Schools are making money hands over fist while knowingly exploiting the student athlete. It's a scam for the most part since schools are not that concerned about the student-athletes education but what he brings to the team. Basically, they can be as cut-throat or worse than NFL franchises. It's a business...a big business with a license to print money.

3. Start a developmental league that opens with 60 franchises. Teams can draft HS students that want to live and play football on a FT basis versus trying to juggle the demands of schoolwork when they and everyone else knows that if school is their only option then it's meet the requirements and prepare for the draft. Developmental League could make athletes available for the NFL Draft at he conclusion of Year 2 or no later than Year 3. Plus the DL can legally pay the athletes....and we all, schools have agreed that student-athletes can not be paid for play...right?

4. DL would cap paydays at 100K for a second year in the league. Players would get a league sponsored Insurance Plan against injury and an option for Special Night Courses that offered Money Management and Public Speaking classes. Trade School affiliations for those athletes that don't make it to the next level for one reason or another.

5. HS athletes who value a higher education will still attend colleges on scholarships but those that just want to play football will help cleanup the current college game of deceit.

I just don't think there would be a problem, with an NFL endorsement, of finding 60 potential owners or ownership groups that would jump at the chance of joining this venture. CFB would have nothing to say about this, oh they would try but they just couldn't match the payday that the DL would provide.

Now, I just broad stroked this but I've enjoyed many beers with my football fan buddies really going into some in depth discussions over the years on this topic. The DL could extract up to 3,600 HS athletes annually for this new league. 30 Franchises would be Tier 1 and they'd have an affiliate on the second tier. There would be no NFL Franchise affiliation since the players would be made available to the NFL Draft.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
When I lived in Powys, Ca in the late 90's I used to call into the local Sports Radio Show and have some decent and bring up the need of a developmental league. I was coming from a different angle though. My points:

1. Every group who thought they could compete with the NFL (Except for old AFL) failed miserably. NFL is far too strong to compete with.

2. I think the biggest market available for competition is College Football. Schools are making money hands over fist while knowingly exploiting the student athlete. It's a scam for the most part since schools are not that concerned about the student-athletes education but what he brings to the team. Basically, they can be as cut-throat or worse than NFL franchises. It's a business...a big business with a license to print money.

3. Start a developmental league that opens with 60 franchises. Teams can draft HS students that want to live and play football on a FT basis versus trying to juggle the demands of schoolwork when they and everyone else knows that if school is their only option then it's meet the requirements and prepare for the draft. Developmental League could make athletes available for the NFL Draft at he conclusion of Year 2 or no later than Year 3. Plus the DL can legally pay the athletes....and we all, schools have agreed that student-athletes can not be paid for play...right?

4. DL would cap paydays at 100K for a second year in the league. Players would get a league sponsored Insurance Plan against injury and an option for Special Night Courses that offered Money Management and Public Speaking classes. Trade School affiliations for those athletes that don't make it to the next level for one reason or another.

5. HS athletes who value a higher education will still attend colleges on scholarships but those that just want to play football will help cleanup the current college game of deceit.

I just don't think there would be a problem, with an NFL endorsement, of finding 60 potential owners or ownership groups that would jump at the chance of joining this venture. CFB would have nothing to say about this, oh they would try but they just couldn't match the payday that the DL would provide.

Now, I just broad stroked this but I've enjoyed many beers with my football fan buddies really going into some in depth discussions over the years on this topic. The DL could extract up to 3,600 HS athletes annually for this new league. 30 Franchises would be Tier 1 and they'd have an affiliate on the second tier. There would be no NFL Franchise affiliation since the players would be made available to the NFL Draft.
Click to expand...

I think 60 teams is way too many and I don't like the idea of HS players getting involved. Their bodies haven't come close to full development yet.

I do agree that some kind of developmental league is needed though. Kids aren't learning the pro game in college and that's the main reason there are so many busts, particularly at QB.

Something similar to NFL Europe, but played here where people care about it, in cities that don't have an NFL franchise, like OKC, Portland, Birmingham, etc. 8 teams representing the 8 divisions with each team made up of players from the 4 teams in a division. Example, the OKC team would consist of 15 players from each of the 4 AFC South teams. The Birmingham team would have players from the NFC South, and so on.

It's mind boggling that of 120 Division 1-A QBs, and a ton more than that at 1-AA, D2 & D3, only a handful or so even even make it to the next level, and the majority of those never amount to anything. And those that do, most of them have to be in the perfect situation to where they're given time to lean the game.

Something developmental like that can only benefit the NFL so it's also mind boggling it hadn't been done already. Of course if we keep buying the crappy product that half the league puts out there every year, why do anything to better your product?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I think that more of Keenum's problems here was that others "didn't get it."
Click to expand...
Yep, DW4 has a coach who's been willing to take things off piste in terms of calling a wild scheme to get the most out of him, had Keenum had a similar situation he could have been successful back then I guess.

But then for all youd knock Kubes for not having that ability, his very reserved style is exactly the reason that he made Schaub look on a similar par to Rivers for years and why Brock looked like a good player.
 
Speedy said:
I think 60 teams is way too many and I don't like the idea of HS players getting involved. Their bodies haven't come close to full development yet.

I do agree that some kind of developmental league is needed though. Kids aren't learning the pro game in college and that's the main reason there are so many busts, particularly at QB.

Something similar to NFL Europe, but played here where people care about it, in cities that don't have an NFL franchise, like OKC, Portland, Birmingham, etc. 8 teams representing the 8 divisions with each team made up of players from the 4 teams in a division. Example, the OKC team would consist of 15 players from each of the 4 AFC South teams. The Birmingham team would have players from the NFC South, and so on.

It's mind boggling that of 120 Division 1-A QBs, and a ton more than that at 1-AA, D2 & D3, only a handful or so even even make it to the next level, and the majority of those never amount to anything. And those that do, most of them have to be in the perfect situation to where they're given time to lean the game.

Something developmental like that can only benefit the NFL so it's also mind boggling it hadn't been done already. Of course if we keep buying the crappy product that half the league puts out there every year, why do anything to better your product?
Click to expand...

Speedy, this is exclusively HS athletes. They'd only be playing against similar talent....like college. These athletes would get to study and prepare their bodies for the demands of the NFL 24/7, legally versus hiding behind a college scholarship to essentially do the same thing. Two levels of development to start with and maybe after a couple of seasons the DL could introduce an Elite League so teams could have some of their backup talent participate with the top talent from the DL. I just feel that what CFB is doing is borderline criminal and not in the best interest of the HS athlete.
 
Hervoyel said:
Well, to me the worst thing that happened to Keenum was that he found himself on Jeff Fisher's team and that's where offensive players go to die apparently. That he survived that and managed to get on in Minnesota and turn his career around is amazing to me. The guy must have a near infinite supply of "want to" or something. I agree we finally ended up in a better place probably (almost certainly from a talent perspective) but like I originally said. It sure would be nice to have had Keenum to fall back on when Watson went down.
Click to expand...

CK7 in HOU today would not be the same CK7 we are seeing in MIN. The Vikings are a good football team. The Texans are not. The Vikings are good enough to overcome a sub par game from the QB. I think the DEF is 3rd or 4th in scoring around 18 pts/game. The OL is solid; he's only been sacked 5 times. The team around CK7 is basically the opposite of what is playing out in HOU. Keenum is in a good place in MIN. I am glad he is there, versus this clown show here.
 
ObsiWan said:
Quote-walk-the-path.jpg


:D
Click to expand...

Agreed. Hopefully, like Neo, Tom will realize he's on the path. He looked better today, hopefully he'll be better next week & the week after, so by the time we play Pittsburgh, we'll have a sliver of a chance to win.
 
thunderkyss said:
Agreed. Hopefully, like Neo, Tom will realize he's on the path. He looked better today, hopefully he'll be better next week & the week after, so by the time we play Pittsburgh, we'll have a sliver of a chance to win.
Click to expand...

I thought I did detect a thread of confidence creeping into his game today. I think we all understand what Tom Savage is at this point and nobody has any real goofy fantasies about him lighting it up out of nowhere but our best hope right now is that he's streaky and that he's been in a big funk ever since he got pulled in Tennessee last year. From that point, to watching Watson get drafted to replace him, to the start of the season going down the toilet so fast has been a long, bad streak for Tom. Hopefully he's about to turn a corner and maybe give us a little better football than he's been playing.

That's all we got really. Well, the OL is starting to look a little bit better. A little.
 
Hervoyel said:
I thought I did detect a thread of confidence creeping into his game today. I think we all understand what Tom Savage is at this point and nobody has any real goofy fantasies about him lighting it up out of nowhere but our best hope right now is that he's streaky and that he's been in a big funk ever since he got pulled in Tennessee last year. From that point, to watching Watson get drafted to replace him, to the start of the season going down the toilet so fast has been a long, bad streak for Tom. Hopefully he's about to turn a corner and maybe give us a little better football than he's been playing.

That's all we got really. Well, the OL is starting to look a little bit better. A little.
Click to expand...

Right. No need for him to light it up. But playing the way he played today, making a play here & there, receivers making plays once they catch the ball, RBs picking up yards after contact & scoring in the Red Zone.

We just can't have him playing at absolute worst QB in history levels.
 
Rockville said:
CK7 in HOU today would not be the same CK7 we are seeing in MIN. The Vikings are a good football team. The Texans are not. The Vikings are good enough to overcome a sub par game from the QB. I think the DEF is 3rd or 4th in scoring around 18 pts/game. The OL is solid; he's only been sacked 5 times. The team around CK7 is basically the opposite of what is playing out in HOU. Keenum is in a good place in MIN. I am glad he is there, versus this clown show here.
Click to expand...

To think their OL was worse than the Texans last yr. (Although both were pretty bad) I wonder how they could've possibly fixed their OL especially after sending their 1st to Philly for Bradford. SMH
 
steelbtexan said:
To think their OL was worse than the Texans last yr. (Although both were pretty bad) I wonder how they could've possibly fixed their OL especially after sending their 1st to Philly for Bradford. SMH
Click to expand...

If i am not mistaken, they have 5 new starters...i.e. the Vikings threw out the trash...
 
Savage had a good game today. He made mistakes that were costly but this seemed to be him putting things together

He needs to get these reps and I felt that BoB called better plays today than he had in the past

Right now savage is where ck7 was when he was with us...losing season with a porous o line and a D that is struggling. Savage has to get better about the blitz something keenum didn't figure out till this year.

I'd like to see savage succeed. He's got a lot of talent. In the era of no salary cap I'd just pay savage so we had a decent backup
 
Savage had a good game today. He made mistakes that were costly but this seemed to be him putting things together

He needs to get these reps and I felt that BoB called better plays today than he had in the past

Right now savage is where ck7 was when he was with us...losing season with a porous o line and a D that is struggling. Savage has to get better about the blitz something keenum didn't figure out till this year.

I'd like to see savage succeed. He's got a lot of talent. In the era of no salary cap I'd just pay savage so we had a decent backup
 
OptimisticTexan said:
When I lived in Powys, Ca in the late 90's I used to call into the local Sports Radio Show and have some decent and bring up the need of a developmental league. I was coming from a different angle though. My points:

1. Every group who thought they could compete with the NFL (Except for old AFL) failed miserably. NFL is far too strong to compete with.

2. I think the biggest market available for competition is College Football. Schools are making money hands over fist while knowingly exploiting the student athlete. It's a scam for the most part since schools are not that concerned about the student-athletes education but what he brings to the team. Basically, they can be as cut-throat or worse than NFL franchises. It's a business...a big business with a license to print money.

3. Start a developmental league that opens with 60 franchises. Teams can draft HS students that want to live and play football on a FT basis versus trying to juggle the demands of schoolwork when they and everyone else knows that if school is their only option then it's meet the requirements and prepare for the draft. Developmental League could make athletes available for the NFL Draft at he conclusion of Year 2 or no later than Year 3. Plus the DL can legally pay the athletes....and we all, schools have agreed that student-athletes can not be paid for play...right?

4. DL would cap paydays at 100K for a second year in the league. Players would get a league sponsored Insurance Plan against injury and an option for Special Night Courses that offered Money Management and Public Speaking classes. Trade School affiliations for those athletes that don't make it to the next level for one reason or another.

5. HS athletes who value a higher education will still attend colleges on scholarships but those that just want to play football will help cleanup the current college game of deceit.
Speedy said:
I think 60 teams is way too many and I don't like the idea of HS players getting involved. Their bodies haven't come close to full development yet.

I do agree that some kind of developmental league is needed though. Kids aren't learning the pro game in college and that's the main reason there are so many busts, particularly at QB.

Something similar to NFL Europe, but played here where people care about it, in cities that don't have an NFL franchise, like OKC, Portland, Birmingham, etc. 8 teams representing the 8 divisions with each team made up of players from the 4 teams in a division. Example, the OKC team would consist of 15 players from each of the 4 AFC South teams. The Birmingham team would have players from the NFC South, and so on.

It's mind boggling that of 120 Division 1-A QBs, and a ton more than that at 1-AA, D2 & D3, only a handful or so even even make it to the next level, and the majority of those never amount to anything. And those that do, most of them have to be in the perfect situation to where they're given time to lean the game.

Something developmental like that can only benefit the NFL so it's also mind boggling it hadn't been done already. Of course if we keep buying the crappy product that half the league puts out there every year, why do anything to better your product?
Click to expand...


OptimisticTexan said:
Speedy, this is exclusively HS athletes. They'd only be playing against similar talent....like college. These athletes would get to study and prepare their bodies for the demands of the NFL 24/7, legally versus hiding behind a college scholarship to essentially do the same thing. Two levels of development to start with and maybe after a couple of seasons the DL could introduce an Elite League so teams could have some of their backup talent participate with the top talent from the DL. I just feel that what CFB is doing is borderline criminal and not in the best interest of the HS athlete.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Who is going to coach in either of your leagues? That's more important than numbers, at least in my mind
 
Last edited:
ArlingtonTexan said:
If i am not mistaken, they have 5 new starters...i.e. the Vikings threw out the trash...
Click to expand...

Berger was the only holdover and they switched him to OG.

Signed Reiff/Remmers as OT's in FA.

Drafted Eflien (3rd) and Isadora (5th and got Easton off the scrap heap.

Texans could've done the same thing but chose not too.
 
steelbtexan said:
Berger was the only holdover and they switched him to OG.

Signed Reiff/Remmers as OT's in FA.

Drafted Eflien (3rd) and Isadora (5th and got Easton off the scrap heap.

Texans could've done the same thing but chose not too.
Click to expand...

what does a ghost do?

Haunts you

but I'm happy with Foreman
 
JB said:
Who is going to coach in either of your leagues? That's more important than numbers, at least in my mind
Click to expand...

Good point. I think like any new venture, there will be growing pains...it's just part of the process. There are a lot of coaches roaming the sidelines that would like a shot at a HC position and the opportunity to assemble a staff.

The mistakes made by every one of the NFL competitors (after the AFL) was a common one, they wanted to be a finished product on Day1 and financially, they just couldn't bear the financial burden.

I might structure a plan of attack that would have 5 and 10 year plans. Start smaller, maybe 1 league with 12 teams and begin to de-bug the entire system. If everything is still moving forward, expand to another 12 franchises by Year 3. If Year 3 has produced 24 franchises then I'm pretty confident it would support the final 6 by Year 5 or 6. I would venture to say that if the league is still surviving and moving forward the second phase of expansion would be initiated to include an AA (Ex) league. Players would continue to play within the first Phase for the required 2 to 3 period before being exposed to the NFL Draft. Depending on the growth during the second phase, the addition of the final AAA (Ex) or Elite League could be initiated as a final phase that could handle players from the Phase 2 and PS players from NFL teams if so desired. The Elite League could then be direct affiliates to NFL Franchises. One idea might reduce this level to 16 teams with dual-NFL ownership franchises to reduce cost of ownership...just a thought out loud.
 
hradhak said:
Savage had a good game today. He made mistakes that were costly but this seemed to be him putting things together

He needs to get these reps and I felt that BoB called better plays today than he had in the past

Right now savage is where ck7 was when he was with us...losing season with a porous o line and a D that is struggling. Savage has to get better about the blitz something keenum didn't figure out till this year.

I'd like to see savage succeed. He's got a lot of talent. In the era of no salary cap I'd just pay savage so we had a decent backup
Click to expand...

I agree he has improved and I am happy to see him earn his spot, but I would not sign him to back up Watson. They are too different of players. The playbook is different depending who is in there and that's not an effective way to do things.
 
thunderkyss said:
How many times was Savage sacked today?
Click to expand...

Once I believe. He wasn't living a pressure-free life but compared to what he went through in week one he was pretty much untouched. The last couple of weeks he hasn't been pressured too terribly bad. He's getting pressure but it's manageable IMO. He just hasn't responded well to it. 13 sacks this year so far. 6 in week one and 1 in clean up duty against Tennessee. The last few weeks he's had 2, 3, and yesterday 1 sack to deal with.

There are QB's who would be delighted to play in those situations. I think the boy's coming around to the speed of the game.
 
amazing80 said:
I agree he has improved and I am happy to see him earn his spot, but I would not sign him to back up Watson. They are too different of players. The playbook is different depending who is in there and that's not an effective way to do things.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. You want to find a guy who can run most of what DW4 is running. You know he's not going to be able to run it the way your starter does but you don't want those plays to be completely outside of his range of abilities either. They're too different and for better or worse we've gone in a completely different direction from the pocket passer that Savage is.
 
Hervoyel said:
Totally agree. You want to find a guy who can run most of what DW4 is running. You know he's not going to be able to run it the way your starter does but you don't want those plays to be completely outside of his range of abilities either. They're too different and for better or worse we've gone in a completely different direction from the pocket passer that Savage is.
Click to expand...

RG III
 
Speedy said:
I think 60 teams is way too many and I don't like the idea of HS players getting involved. Their bodies haven't come close to full development yet.

I do agree that some kind of developmental league is needed though. Kids aren't learning the pro game in college and that's the main reason there are so many busts, particularly at QB.

Something similar to NFL Europe, but played here where people care about it, in cities that don't have an NFL franchise, like OKC, Portland, Birmingham, etc. 8 teams representing the 8 divisions with each team made up of players from the 4 teams in a division. Example, the OKC team would consist of 15 players from each of the 4 AFC South teams. The Birmingham team would have players from the NFC South, and so on.

It's mind boggling that of 120 Division 1-A QBs, and a ton more than that at 1-AA, D2 & D3, only a handful or so even even make it to the next level, and the majority of those never amount to anything. And those that do, most of them have to be in the perfect situation to where they're given time to lean the game.

Something developmental like that can only benefit the NFL so it's also mind boggling it hadn't been done already. Of course if we keep buying the crappy product that half the league puts out there every year, why do anything to better your product?
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Are there really any more bad QBs today than there were in decades past, the 70s or 80s for instance? Did I miss the era of assembly line NFL-ready QBs out of college? And there are plenty of busts at the position, no doubt. But I'm not sure that this era is overflowing with terrible QB play while bereft of good young QBs any more than any other era.

In just the last 6 drafts -

'12 - Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins
'14 - Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo
'15 - Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota
'16 - Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott
'17 - Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson

- that's 14 QBs who, barring unforeseen injury, would be leading nearly half the league to between solid to very good QB play. Admittedly the jury's still out on the '17 class, but we're off to a solid start at worst with D4's early succes, Trubisky gradually coming along, and Mahomes on deck.

I'd rather watch just about each and every one of these guys throw and run vs many from era's past.

From the 1975 draft onward -

Steve Bartkowsi, Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Richard Todd, Steve Pisarkiewicz, Jack Thompson, Marc Wilson, Rich Campbell, Art Schlichter, Chuck Long, Kelly Stouffer, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, David Klingler, Dave Brown

- all first rounders, and none really worth a flip behind center.

Just don't get the today's QB play being an extra special problem argument.
 
infantrycak said:
Couldn't keep a job in Cleveland and can't run anymore.
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I've often said (and will continue saying) that I never hold what anyone did or didn't do in Cleveland against them. The "can't run anymore" part I don't know about. I'm pretty sure he may not be able to run like he once did but is he Dan Marino/Tom Savage levels of immobile? My understanding was that the workout with the Chargers back in July went well from a "what can he do" perspective. If there's still issues with RGIII as someone you would want to add to your locker room I think those issues are more between the ears than anything else.
 
infantrycak said:
Not as well as Kaep and decidedly worse than Kaep passing.
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I've kind of accepted that the Texans will never, under any circumstances bring in Kaepernick so whether it's fair or not I just don't even think about him being a possibility here. It's like he fell off the planet or something as far as McNair & Co. are concerned.

Admittedly the same could be said about RGIII so far. The Texans have never even indicated they know he still exists.
 
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