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JJ Watt - MVP

Scooter

Scooter

Funky
I want to start a discussion on this. It seems the Wisconsin boys are in the lead for the MVP vote, one on offense and one on defense. Offense appears to be running away with the vote. The argument is that as the quarterback, Aaron Rodgers is more "valuable" ... literally defining the award. He is the driving force of the team while Watt is a phenom, but merely a contributor.

Doesn't that end this and all future conversations? The quarterback is the cog for every team. The league is built that way. Valuable to the team is ended with 1 position.

HOWEVER!!! I think Deadspin touched on something that I think should be explored in their piece describing each drive that Watt deterred. Aaron Rodgers to this point is the next in line of quarterbacks having a standout season. He's scored 33 touchdowns already - 32 passing and 1 rushing - for a total of 198 points. Watt only has 5 touchdowns for 30 points. Deadspin knocked out 5 drives in the first half that Watt directly took points off the board versus the Titans - is that not potentially 30 points that Watt directly influenced? In that way Rodgers gets 6 for a touchdown, Watt gets 6 for the third down stop.

What do the numbers look like when the offensive player's touchdowns are compared to Watt's singular marks taking points off the board? Who has the highest total? Rodgers gets credit for an amazing catch and run by Jordy Nelson, does Watt get credit for the touchdown when his pressure results in an INT or punt or return touchdown? How many points has each player REALLY accounted for?
 
I love watt and what Texans fan doesnt. But the Texans would probably be 4-8 without JJ instead of 6-6. I think that they would have lost the Skins and Bills game without him. But on the other side, Packers are probably 3-9 instead of 9-3 if their back up qb was playing.
 
stingray said:
But on the other side, Packers are probably 3-9 instead of 9-3 if their back up qb was playing.
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is having a shitty backup an excuse? the patriots and colts fight for the first 2 seeds every year. brady goes out and cassell wins 10 games because belichick is famous for constantly grooming the next guy. manning goes out and the colts dont win. 2 years later the colts have regained dominance with a kid, and manning's going to the superbowl on another team. who is the right system and player?

does the same happen with the texans' defense? is there another player in the league that can step into watt's role? justin smith is an all-pro monster, but he'd at best be matt cassell in this scenario. what would we look like with curtis painter at LDE? how many points and wins would that single substitution cost us?
 
We should have, could have, would have won those three games against the Cowboys, Colts and Steelers in consecutive fashion. We'd be sitting pretty at 9-3 right now instead of 6-6. J.J. Watt would be a lock for the MVP if we had those three extra wins.

Better yet, what if Jadeveon Clowney never tore his meniscus and had played in those three games? Who knows. We always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. But hopefully we win out and finish 10-6. And maybe, just maybe, we'll make the playoffs.
 
stingray said:
I love watt and what Texans fan doesnt. But the Texans would probably be 4-8 without JJ instead of 6-6. I think that they would have lost the Skins and Bills game without him. But on the other side, Packers are probably 3-9 instead of 9-3 if their back up qb was playing.
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In the end J.J. Watt will not win the 2014 NFL MVP because at best we'll go 10-6. But if we make the playoffs he may earn a few extra votes. I just think losing some heartbreakers we probably could have won cost us a chance to go 14-2 or 13-3 which would have given him a better chance. Just for kicks, Bill O'Brien should allow Watt to throw a TD pass if we blow out the Jaguars this Sunday and have a goal line situation late in the game. He's done everything else he may as well play quarterback for one play. Heck, it's not like freakin' Tom Savage is going to throw a pass in garbage time late in the game. What a joke that was the last game. We could have put 52 points on the board.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
In the end J.J. Watt will not win the 2014 NFL MVP because at best we'll go 10-6. But if we make the playoffs he may earn a few extra votes. I just think losing some heartbreakers we probably could have won cost us a chance to go 14-2 or 13-3 which would have given him a better chance. Just for kicks, Bill O'Brien should allow Watt to throw a TD pass if we blow out the Jaguars this Sunday and have a goal line situation late in the game. He's done everything else he may as well play quarterback for one play. Heck, it's not like freakin' Tom Savage is going to throw a pass in garbage time late in the game. What a joke that was the last game. We could have put 52 points on the board.
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No JJ Watt will not when the MVP because they no longer consider anything outside of an offensive player the most valuable player. And it amazes me, in a league where you cant even touch a WR, it is QBs who get all the glory.

This is one reason i don't generally care for the awards, because they have and will always be biased.
 
eriadoc nailed it in the other thread. Call it the most valuable QB award and stop the sham of considering the whole league.

The award has been ruined just like the Heisman with making it essentially a QB award and almost only from a winning team.
 
Yup, it's a "QB driven league" now. Add that with how good Rodgers is playing, the Pack are going to the playoffs and the Texans aren't. End of story

Most know I'm a huge defense kinda guy, so I'd be tickled to death if he won it. He deserves it

He's got DPOY, Pro Bowl, All Pro all but wrapped up
 
HOU-TEX said:
Yup, it's a "QB driven league" now. Add that with how good Rodgers is playing, the Pack are going to the playoffs and the Texans aren't. End of story

Most know I'm a huge defense kinda guy, so I'd be tickled to death if he won it. He deserves it

He's got DPOY, Pro Bowl, All Pro all but wrapped up
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This displays the problem. Rodgers is not doing anything special. Every year the best QBs put up years like his. It isn't even his best year.

What JJ is doing is having an epic season, the kind that would be in the debate for best season by a DLmen ever.
 
I think JJ has a legit shot IF he continues his dominance AND if Texans gets in the playoffs. The key thing is the playoffs because however they get in will be so miraculous and dramatic that the voters cannot simply ignore such a story.

This country LOVES a good underdog story especially coming from such a good likable guy like JJ Watt. Believe me voters will lay aside the "this is QB league" prerequisite and will make an exception because of the improbable story behind it.
 
EllisUnit said:
No JJ Watt will not when the MVP because they no longer consider anything outside of an offensive player the most valuable player. And it amazes me, in a league where you cant even touch a WR, it is QBs who get all the glory.

This is one reason i don't generally care for the awards, because they have and will always be biased.
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All the more reason to spit in the sportswriters faces, the ones who vote for the NFL MVP, and play J.J. Watt at quarterback for at least one goal line play at Jacksonville on Sunday (only if the Texans are up big) just to throw for one TD pass. Make it extra unique and special what he's doing this year. Heck, maybe even allow Watt to kick an extra point and a short-yardage field goal (under 30 yards). To go along with his blocked extra point and field goals, sacks, QB knockdowns, batted pass deflections, TD receptions, fumbles forced, fumbles returned for touchdown and pick six interception. Just to name a few. Whatever he can do in these final four games to impress people and the Texans finish 10-6 to make the playoffs and maybe even make a surprise Super Bowl run. If that happens we'll know he was the real MVP. At any rate J.J. Watt is going to win his second defensive player of the year award which is also special. I sort of consider Watt an offensive player as it is. He's a fine tight end. The best we have on the team.
 
HOU-TEX said:
What are snowcaps?
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20111021-candy-a-day-sno-caps.jpg
 
infantrycak said:
This displays the problem. Rodgers is not doing anything special. Every year the best QBs put up years like his. It isn't even his best year.

What JJ is doing is having an epic season, the kind that would be in the debate for best season by a DLmen ever.
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I agree with your overall stance, but take issue with the Rodgers comment. He's on pace to finish the year with 42 TD's and 4 INT's. It's not quite as good as his historic 2011 season, but it is special. The guy has redefined the modern QB position as far as I'm concerned.

Totally agree on the Watt comment. What he's doing is basically unheard of and if he doesn't win it this year it basically determines the MVP award as an offensive award and diminishes the overall importance of it.

I think the point to make is that both players have had special seasons, but Rodgers is in charted territory while Watt is in uncharted territory. Which player should be rewarded?
 
WolverineFan said:
I think the point to make is that both players have had special seasons, but Rodgers is in charted territory while Watt is in uncharted territory. Which player should be rewarded?
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Yes. I don't want to get bogged down about Rogers. What you said is the bottom line.
 
They should use the "if you had the first pick in the draft" question to decide.

First pick, and Rodgers, Brady, Manning, and Watt are there.

Who do you take?

Defense wins championships baby, I go with Corn-Fed Jesus ...
 
Unfortunately, I think the only way for a defensive player to win the MVP is if all the elite QBs have either an off year or are injured.

It's not right, but that's just the way it is in today's NFL.

Perception is reality for those with the power to vote, and they obviously perceive the elite QBs to be at the top of the MVP pyramid unless a RB has a phenomenal year.

J.J., and Texans fans, are just going to have to be content with another DPOY award. Two in three seasons is amazing in and of itself.
 
eriadoc said:
JJ Watt is the MVP and it's not even close.
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If Aaron Rodgers was on the Texans what would their record be? I think its safe to say they would have at least three more wins. More wins = more valuable. Its a QB league and they are far and away more valuable. Its just the way it is.
 
Mike Meltser nails it:

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/mike-meltser-5-things-to-watch/

3. Can JJ Watt win MVP? – This should probably be number one, but I figure this topic is getting enough run nationally that most readers are well aware of it. It’s hard to envision seeing any player knock Aaron Rodgers off his perch right now, as the Packers QB appears set to win his 2nd career MVP award. I’ve maintained throughout the season that Watt’s best chance to win MVP is if the Texans somehow make the playoffs. If that happens, the argument is simple: no team has ever made the playoffs with Ryan Fitzpatrick at quarterback. This one did, and a big part of it (hypothetically), is the outstanding play of Watt. Working against Watt is this asinine voting system, where you select only a single candidate to win the award. I think he would do much better in an NBA-style MVP vote, where you can select first-through-fifth place candidates.
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Playoffs said:
He's the offensive equivalent of JJ Watt... almost. :truck:
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Really? EVERY year since the rule changes, some QB has done this and more. Name a defensive player other than Watt with his production in ANY year since the changes.
 
jaayteetx said:
If Aaron Rodgers was on the Texans what would their record be?
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Well, the Texans went 6-10 with a QB that led the league and put up one of the best yardage totals in NFL history. Now, if Rodgers were on the team with Watt, they'd have more wins and everyone would credit Rodgers. The fact that the Texans are where they are is largely because of Watt. He is more valuable than Rodgers.

Besides that, he's just a better player than anyone on the planet. He's doing things no one has ever done before, in an era when the rules are working against him. Seriously think about that for a minute. Rodgers and other QBs are assisted by the rules, while Watt is thriving despite the rules. And how much better is Rodgers than the 2nd best QB? The 10th best QB? How much better is Watt than the 2nd best DL? It's not even close.

Watt is the MVP and it's not even close.
 
Watt should win, but he won't. I believe he is the MVP this year so far, but I also believe he won't get it. I am counting on him getting the DPOY again, not MVP.
 
Suit 'em up.

Put them on a football field at the 50 yard line,

Lying on their backs, head-to-head.

Put a football on the ground between their heads.

Blow the whistle. Whoever grabs the ball and scores first is MVP. Settled.

jill61-603505-albums-emoticons-pic59494-rubbing-hands-smiley.gif
 
Playoffs said:
Suit 'em up.

Put them on a football field at the 50 yard line,

Lying on their backs, head-to-head.

Put a football on the ground between their heads.

Blow the whistle. Whoever grabs the ball and score first is MVP. Settled.

jill61-603505-albums-emoticons-pic59494-rubbing-hands-smiley.gif
Click to expand...

Sounds fair to me :D
 
jaayteetx said:
If Aaron Rodgers was on the Texans what would their record be? I think its safe to say they would have at least three more wins. More wins = more valuable. Its a QB league and they are far and away more valuable. Its just the way it is.
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If AR were on the Texans, and JJ wasn't ... I think we have less wins.

Without JJ what do we have on defense? He is almost literally a one man wrecking crew.
 
Playoffs said:
Suit 'em up.

Put them on a football field at the 50 yard line,

Lying on their backs, head-to-head.

Put a football on the ground between their heads.

Blow the whistle. Whoever grabs the ball and scores first is MVP. Settled.

jill61-603505-albums-emoticons-pic59494-rubbing-hands-smiley.gif
Click to expand...

Boom! *drops mic*
 
kingtexan said:
If AR were on the Texans, and JJ wasn't ... I think we have less wins.

Without JJ what do we have on defense? He is almost literally a one man wrecking crew.
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I was going to post something similar to this.

Let's say we had Quinn, Wake, Allen, Campbell, Ware, or whomever, instead of Watt. Is anyone going to really say that the Texans defense will still be playing at the level they currently are? Not to discount Crick, Mercilus, or Reed's talent, but their stats would noticeably lower if we had anyone but Watt in there.

On the flip-side, put Brady, Peyton, or Brees in-place of Rodgers, what's the slip-off? It's not significant.
 
jaayteetx said:
If Aaron Rodgers was on the Texans what would their record be? I think its safe to say they would have at least three more wins. More wins = more valuable. Its a QB league and they are far and away more valuable. Its just the way it is.
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Yes the Texans would have more wins if Aaron Rodgers was The Texans quarterback however the Texans are decent quarterback away from being a much better team than they are right now so that is not the best example to use. They definitely have more holes than quarterback but quarterback is their biggest need at this point.
 
As I said, the last time the Texans had a legitimately great season from the QB position, they went 6-10.
 
I'll get hammered for this but it's my opinion. I hope he gets the MVP but I don't REALLY care whether he does or not. I do care if he's healthy and happy as a Texan.

He's got the world by the balls and it's due to his hard work and determination and he deserves all he has, but if all he gets is DPOY, I don't think he'll lose any sleep. If he does lose sleep over it he'll just get that much hungrier.
 
kingtexan said:
If AR were on the Texans, and JJ wasn't ... I think we have less wins.

Without JJ what do we have on defense? He is almost literally a one man wrecking crew.
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Respectfully disagree. I look at the Colts and see a worse team than the Texans but with a far superior qb. A top qb covers a lot of holes, and AR is about as good as there is right now. Swap AR for JJW and I think we challenge for the division. Not a popular view, but my honest opinion.
 
markn said:
Respectfully disagree. I look at the Colts and see a worse team than the Texans but with a far superior qb. A top qb covers a lot of holes, and AR is about as good as there is right now. Swap AR for JJW and I think we challenge for the division. Not a popular view, but my honest opinion.
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Yeah just like 2010 when we had a good QB and went to... oh wait
 
He is the MVP so far this year easily but if the Texans don't make the playoffs he won't get it, that's the bottom line to me.
 
I think he deserves it.

I don't think he's going to get it.

I don't WANT him to get it. I want this to be the sort of thing that drives him.
 
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/12/03/jj-watt-houston-texans-case-nfl-mvp

From a total pass rush perspective, however, Watt has absolutely no equal in the current NFL. Per PFF, he is absolutely destroying every other defensive player as a pure quarterback terrorizer. He has 33 quarterback hits and 35 quarterback hurries to go with his 11.5 sacks. The next best 3-4 end in hits is Green Bay's Mike Daniels with 10, and the next best in hurries is San Francisco's Ray McDonald with 28.

Now, on to Watt against the real quarterback disruptors: 4-3 ends and 3-4 outside linebackers. New Orleans' Junior Galette leads all 3-4 ends in total pressures with 55, which Watt eclipses in hits and hurries alone. Chicago's Jared Allen leads 4-3 ends with 17, just about half of Watt's total, and Seattle's Michael Bennett leads all defensive players with 41 hurries. Not half bad either, considering that Bennett plays a lot of snaps as a five-tech defensive tackle. Still, nobody even close to Watt's total output.

Among 3-4 outside linebackers, Kansas City's Justin Houston leads the pack with 61, which again wouldn't match Watt's total pressures with just hits and hurries. Indy's Erik Walden leads that position with 15 hits (not even close) and Houston has 40 hurries as a pure edge rusher.
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This year, Aaron Rodgers is the favorite to win the award, and he's certainly got the performances and numbers to back that up. Rodgers is arguably playing as well or better than he did in 2011, the year he first won the award and led the Green Bay Packers to their fourth Super Bowl title. Most will tell you that Houston Texans defensive lineman J.J. Watt is second in line for that award this season, and given the scarcity of such awards allotted over time to defensive players, Watt should be honored to be in the discussion at such a high plateau.

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it, which is the way I tend to do, is that if anybody but Watt wins the league's Most Valuable Player award this season, the NFL might as well do away with the damned thing. Because as impressive as Rodgers is this season (a 66.3% completion rate for 3,325 yards, 32 touchdowns and three interceptions), what Watt is accomplishing has literally never been seen before. Not at any level of football.
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nods head

MVP

:swatter:
 
infantrycak said:
eriadoc nailed it in the other thread. Call it the most valuable QB award and stop the sham of considering the whole league.

The award has been ruined just like the Heisman with making it essentially a QB award and almost only from a winning team.
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Jup, make one Award for each position... end of story :)
 
I m fired up for the stretch run fellas to see what moxie this team has. Just order me some Texan gear. Cannot wait to see the disgust from the Kansas City fan base here. Fitz just play smart and Houston got these last games. Defense will be find as long as it does not have to be on the field more than the offense.
Watt will always be the MVP no matter what media decides.
 
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