Vance87
All Pro
Good god. :vincepalm:
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JJ Watt - MVP
- Thread starter Scooter
- Start date
Good god. :vincepalm:
I watched a lot of that SD/KC game and Houston was dominating. Would have thought he would have gotten it.
Speaking of Newsome, did he ever get fined for tripping Fitz and breaking his leg? It was Newsome, right?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
From PFT:
That "damned pizza delivery boy" wasn't such a waste a first round pick after all
Pump up those stats.
I think he got it, for that reason. It will be repeated ad naseum for the next week or so. We didn't have a QB, we were 2-14 last season, he's practically our defense, he's scored mulitple times on both offense & defense.
Two 20 sack seasons in three years. He's got it.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Then don't call it the MVP, but what it truly is, MVQB.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
The issue I've got with this debate, and I don't know if I'm just playing devils advocate here or what, but if we'd straight up traded Rodgers for Watt sometime around March 2014, we'd probably be in the playoffs right now.
That's not me disparaging JJ or his efforts, it's just the way the game is, a great QB is more 'valuable' in the W-L column than a great player of any other position. QBs of Rodgers' quality come around more often than DEs of JJs quality.
That's not me disparaging JJ or his efforts, it's just the way the game is, a great QB is more 'valuable' in the W-L column than a great player of any other position. QBs of Rodgers' quality come around more often than DEs of JJs quality.
Scooter
Funky
a VERY justifiable question. however. does that question change if you substitute any of 10+ other names behind center? why is rodgers that one guy who saves the world? a better quarterback might very well put us into the playoffs. or it might not considering how much of our defense came from watt. tom brady probably has the packers at 14 wins, why is no one working that angle? brady took a washed up randy moss and broke records with him ... that's that only time he's had a respectable outside threat. what would he do with jordy and cobb? sub in manning. he made decker a #1 free agent. he's turned a stone handed roster into amazing receivers, who will turn into pumpkins the moment he shuts down. brees has a ring and passing records and is good for a fortune of stats each year, and came in 3rd among possibly the single worst division ever. does that make him less of the top 4 quarterbacks? or does it prove that he's not the only guy on the team?
we have a ton of talent on defense, but it's a passing league and only 1 member of our front 7 is a participant in the pass rush. wade built us heavy man to man, and we're good at it. romeo took that and added a blended zone - and we've become a turnover monster by combining one master's teaching into another's kung fu. that 1 member gets schemed with up to 4 blockers dedicated to him alone and still puts up numbers that no other player - EVER - can compete with.
rodgers or whichever quarterback's name get substituted in, they take credit for what 10 other players do on the field. watt takes credit for what he can do against up to 4 other players by his own self. give watt credit for the pressured interceptions. the pick-6's. the failed 3rd downs from previous hits. give watt the credit for all the things HE did. his lone accomplishments that aren't categorized have removed more points than the top 3 quarterbacks have combined to take credit for the entire season.
edit: i'll put it out there. fine, make the trade. put jj watt with that roster. put him with clay matthews and the rest of the talent on defense that green bay has, it wouldn't be fair. give them fitzpatrick to play behind that line. to throw to their WR's and TE's in a competent NFL scheme. give him lacy. the texans made it to 9 wins. make the swap, i say the packers win 11+ with fitz and watt on coaching and an excess of defensive talent alone - IN SPITE OF a more difficult schedule.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Value and necessity - you'd die without water. Yet how much do you pay for water? How valuable is it to you? In a civilized society (NFL), not very much. If you're stuck out in the desert without any (Texans), you value it much more. The NFL has no real shortage of good QBs right now. Actually, we're in somewhat of a golden age. Aaron Rodgers, as good as he is, is somewhat interchangeable. How many QBs have put up similar or comparable numbers in the last 5 years? Hell, there are at least 4 others this year alone. Then you get into guys like Russell Wilson, who I think the Packers could also win with.
A big part of value is driven by scarcity. We don't value things that are abundant, no matter how necessary they are.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
An I disagree with your premise. I do not believe we would be even one game closer to the playoffs. What we gain with Rodgers is more than offset by the loss of Watt in my opinion. But since we're both speculating based on our biases, it's not based on common knowledge, but personal bias.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Kind of a non-sequiter, imo.
Replace Rodgers with an average QB, say Andy Dalton (21st/39 QBs),
And replace Watt with an average 3-4 DE, say Cedric Thornton (20th/49 DEs)...
Now project the impact...
GB still has top impact players WRs Jordy Nelson/Randall Cobb, RB Eddie Lacy, OLs Lang/Sitton/Bulaga/Lindsley.
Texans have Kareem Jackson.
#MVP
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6R0clCCYAI8txJ.jpg
Chronicle Sports page turns out for Watt.
McClain is 1 of the 50 and made his case for why JJ Watt got his vote.
Nick Mathews ‏@Nick_Mathews
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not that this matters but:
My fb post about the subject:
I can't believe that there is a "debate" about who should win the MVP this year. I know Rodgers had a great year and I think that most years a QB should win this award but what Watt did this year is phenomenal.
When you game plan against the Packers you are game planning against the WRs, TEs, RBs and Rodgers. If you took Rodgers out and inserted an average QB your game plan doesn't change all that much. Yes he's a QB and yes you game plan against him but you would be doing that any way, that's why a QB usually wins this award. But this year you game planned against Watt, teams changed how they ran their offense around him. Watt affects every single play by forcing the other team to double team him and then chip him with a RB for good measure and as several OC's said, they even have to plan how to handle him in their running game.
Everybody is pointing to his sacks and the fact that he's the only player in history to have 20 sacks twice in his career and that's impressive but that's the last reason to consider him for MVP. He finished with 78 tackles as a 5 technique in a 3-4 defense, led the league in tackles for a loss, fumbles recovered. Oh and he scored 32 points himself. That is more than Anquan Boldin, Jason Witten or Shady McCoy. And then lets look at pass rushing again. If you combine QB sacks (where he finished second to Houston), QB Hurries (he tied Houston with 54 for the league lead) and QB Hits (he led the league with 44, the next closest was 21) he combined for 119 QB pressures. The next closest was 85 (Justin Houston). For comparison sake Watt disrupted 1 in 5 passes thrown while he was on the field (Houston was next at 1 in 9). That doesn't include the disruption that he caused by drawing a double team over 87% of the time he was on the field (that's a guess based on a random sample of plays, it might be higher than that).
Take any top 5 QB and put them on the Packers... chances are they still win 10 games or more. Rodgers is not 6 or 7 wins better than any of the top 5 (or maybe even 10) QBs in the league. You can take any defensive player in the league and plug him in in Watt's place and the Texans are a 2 or 3 win Team. He is 6 or 7 wins better than any other player in the league and there is no other player in the league that you can say that about. I don't know how anyone can look at that and argue that he is not the MVP.
Mike
I can't believe that there is a "debate" about who should win the MVP this year. I know Rodgers had a great year and I think that most years a QB should win this award but what Watt did this year is phenomenal.
When you game plan against the Packers you are game planning against the WRs, TEs, RBs and Rodgers. If you took Rodgers out and inserted an average QB your game plan doesn't change all that much. Yes he's a QB and yes you game plan against him but you would be doing that any way, that's why a QB usually wins this award. But this year you game planned against Watt, teams changed how they ran their offense around him. Watt affects every single play by forcing the other team to double team him and then chip him with a RB for good measure and as several OC's said, they even have to plan how to handle him in their running game.
Everybody is pointing to his sacks and the fact that he's the only player in history to have 20 sacks twice in his career and that's impressive but that's the last reason to consider him for MVP. He finished with 78 tackles as a 5 technique in a 3-4 defense, led the league in tackles for a loss, fumbles recovered. Oh and he scored 32 points himself. That is more than Anquan Boldin, Jason Witten or Shady McCoy. And then lets look at pass rushing again. If you combine QB sacks (where he finished second to Houston), QB Hurries (he tied Houston with 54 for the league lead) and QB Hits (he led the league with 44, the next closest was 21) he combined for 119 QB pressures. The next closest was 85 (Justin Houston). For comparison sake Watt disrupted 1 in 5 passes thrown while he was on the field (Houston was next at 1 in 9). That doesn't include the disruption that he caused by drawing a double team over 87% of the time he was on the field (that's a guess based on a random sample of plays, it might be higher than that).
Take any top 5 QB and put them on the Packers... chances are they still win 10 games or more. Rodgers is not 6 or 7 wins better than any of the top 5 (or maybe even 10) QBs in the league. You can take any defensive player in the league and plug him in in Watt's place and the Texans are a 2 or 3 win Team. He is 6 or 7 wins better than any other player in the league and there is no other player in the league that you can say that about. I don't know how anyone can look at that and argue that he is not the MVP.
Mike
Last edited:
Sigma
Veteran
everybody knows the academy awards are not that "accurate" let's say
right now, you just need to make a movie about a minority and you get your Oscar award
regardless of how good the movie is
But none of the Madea movies have won yet? They're horrible and have "minorities".
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yeah, but those movies went full retard, you never go full retard.
To Kill A Mockingbird really should have won Best Picture in 1963.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
J.J. carried Texas but not Wisconsin...
interesting.
TN, WV, and SC are going, "whut's an MVP?"
CA voters probably wrote in Phillip Rivers.
and who in the Atlantic Ocean got to vote?
J.J. carried Texas but not Wisconsin...
interesting.
TN, WV, and SC are going, "whut's an MVP?"
CA voters probably wrote in Phillip Rivers.
and who in the Atlantic Ocean got to vote?
Not surprising he didn't carry Wisconsin, they're all cheeseheads up thar
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Pretty cool highlight video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcfDJhIclac
The majority of players who play this game would be content if that was a career highlight tape for them.. It's amazing Watt did all of that in one season.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcfDJhIclac
The majority of players who play this game would be content if that was a career highlight tape for them.. It's amazing Watt did all of that in one season.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
This is a great highlight reel.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
We may or may not see JJ Watt batting/catching and kicking the football in the Pro Bowl.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I'll raise you one and predict that J.J. Watt will throw a Touchdown pass playing quarterback for Team Carter at the pro bowl. That would be icing on the cake with the NFL announcing the MVP the following Saturday. 
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Watt totally deserves the MVP.... and some Sno-caps, perhaps.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
PapaL
Loose Screw
Defensive MVP at the 2015 Pro Bowl...JJ Watt; LINK
[IMGwidthsize=600]http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/C81Rxq3aMcU4bYETrVf7vA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTcyMDtpbD1wbGFuZTtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz05NjA-/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-01-26/b2f039c0-a51d-11e4-bc7f-915a4fdc633c_image.jpeg[/IMG]
Pretty cool that we've had both a Defensive and an Offensive ProBowl MVP in recent years.
JJ Watt, taking over the world!
[IMGwidthsize=600]http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/C81Rxq3aMcU4bYETrVf7vA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTcyMDtpbD1wbGFuZTtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz05NjA-/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-01-26/b2f039c0-a51d-11e4-bc7f-915a4fdc633c_image.jpeg[/IMG]
Pretty cool that we've had both a Defensive and an Offensive ProBowl MVP in recent years.
JJ Watt, taking over the world!
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Good lord it would be a buffet in my mansion 24/7 if I were that guy.
trust me, Watt is SHREWD.
He's already building his post-playing days brand.
And having a bunch of wild parties is not good for the brand.
He's the Derek Jeter of the NFL.
...and that is not a bad thing
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ummm, a Derek Jeter style buffet is exactly what I think he was talking about.
Yeah but Jeter chose one entree' at a time from the menu.
[imgwidthsize=300]http://www.universalshare.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DerekJeter_Cover.jpg[/IMG]
You never heard of Jeter hosting a "buffet", a la Matty Hottub.
[imgwidthsize=300]http://images.rapgenius.com/e184a8d2630aec6141b3dd6cd7b069d2.400x271x1.jpg[/IMG]
He lost it right there.
Can't do that to Elmo & expect to get the MVP. Not going to happen.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Isn't Elmo a pedophile? He probably picked up some votes for that.