Playoffs
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I agree and think it'll be tough for either to fall out of the top slots, barring new info. Winston just gave me enough that I can take to my GM and hang my hat on.
I don't see us in play for either.
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Jamies Winston Qb Florida State
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
I don't see us in play for either.
bah007
Hall of Fame
The only reason I understand the intricacies is because I am very familiar with Fisher's system.
It is designed to look like a pro system so that he can be multiple and appear complex. The more complex the system appears, the more simple the defense will have to be to defend it. This gives Fisher a significant advantage because the defense will have to declare alignment and tendencies before the snap, so that he can make any necessary adjustments.
The beautiful design is that it is actually very simple to learn and memorize.
Every single QB that Fisher has ever put through his system has been totally unprepared for a NFL playbook, despite some of them being pretty smart kids.
ON THE FIELD, Winston looks exactly like JaMarcus Russell did when Fisher was coaching him at LSU. Everyone keeps bringing up the off-field stuff. That's not the comparison I'm making. On the field they look eerily similar. And ironically, they have about the same hype.
Not that this is a huge surprise however it looks like Winston will indeed declare.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ons-dad-now-says-he-will-enter-the-nfl-draft/
As for the Russell comparison I can see that. However I think the biggest difference is the work ethic. Russell might have panned out if he wasn't lazy. I haven't heard anything about Winston being lazy or not serious about learning the game.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ons-dad-now-says-he-will-enter-the-nfl-draft/
As for the Russell comparison I can see that. However I think the biggest difference is the work ethic. Russell might have panned out if he wasn't lazy. I haven't heard anything about Winston being lazy or not serious about learning the game.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Top 6 pick atleast. Probably top 3. I think it's the right move by him. Good draft stock and he needs a change of scenery.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
She better hope she gets a new lawyer, because her lawyer is horrible.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Agreed, and if Tennessee somehow doesn't take him, Jags will trade that pick so fast.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Winston may not be a likeable guy but they have never had anything on him for this. In fact, from what I've read they have always had more evidence to support his version of events. If this really happened to her then I hope he burns but it really looks like that's not what happened. Enough already.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Well, beyond that, and I agree, her lawyer is terrible. I think she hired a new team, with her original lawyer taking a backseat. She better hope they're good though.
Looking for a payoff now that he has declared for the draft?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I'm sure they will file suit against him soon.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't know the specifics of this case but there are all sorts of reasons people make false sexual allegations - can't admit consent to parents, he thought it was a one time deal and she thought it was more, he said something derogatory about her and it got back to her, etc.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Especially when one of her family members, also her original lawyer, was reported to have said that she would never sleep with a ni****, sorry "black boy."
So you're suggesting that she made the rape allegations up and went to the police therefore putting herself in the public eye to hide the fact that she slept with a "ni****"?
for this to be a false accusation of rape, for this woman to be making this entire thing up in an effort to get Jameis Winston or take down FSU football or to scheme for money or to do it out of scorn or revenge, for this woman to not believe 100 percent that she was, indeed, raped, to believe she never consented to sex that night, the following would've had to occur.
She needed to immediately tell a friend she was assaulted.
She needed to have that friend call the police and subject herself to questioning.
She needed the first police department to call a second police department for another interview and evidence collection.
She needed all of this to occur in her dorm, where the presence of police, and thus the painful reason for their presence, would surely be known by all of the other students.
She needed to admit she was out drinking despite being underage. She needed to admit she left a bar alone with three men when she didn't even know their names. She needed to admit getting in a cab and going to their apartment. All of this is behavior that would be, for many, embarrassing or even shameful to discuss.
She needed to willingly go to the hospital and endure a rape kit, which, by all accounts, is one of the most dehumanizing and humiliating experiences a person can go through.
She needed to have another talk with police at the hospital and discuss her drinking and actions that night with medical professionals. She needed to willingly subject herself to a toxicology test.
She needed to wake her parents in the middle of the night and talk to them about being assaulted, while acknowledging behavior (drinking, leaving the bar with strange men, etc.) that they presumably would disapprove. How many women want to discuss sex, in any way, shape or form, with their father?
She needed to tell more friends of this behavior the next day, even though the least humiliating thing she could have ever done was never tell anyone where she was. Other than Winston and his two FSU teammates he lived with, no one knew where she went that night. Had she been embarrassed by consensual actions, she could've just remained silent and hoped to never run into guys she didn't even know again.
She needed to go to the TPD the next afternoon for an additional interview, which was recorded. She needed to file a false police report knowing that, if it were proven she lied, she would be prosecuted. She needed to repeatedly lie to the police, another crime.
So she did all of that, she subjected herself to what was likely embarrassment over her actions and the incident to her parents, friends, dormmates, police, nurses and so on, underwent the horror of a rape kit, she did all of that to accuse no one.
No one.
Not Jameis Winston. Not an FSU football player. Not someone she was trying to get back at or wanted the attention of or whatever other motivation there might be.
She accused no one. She had no name. She had no real identification. She had nothing.
Remember, she didn't realize it was Winston until over a month later, where, now with so much time between the incident that, should she have been making this up or embellishing it or just doing it as some sick plan to get attention and sympathy, she could've let it fade off forever without any consequence.
According to FBI studies of false reports, it would actually be more believable although still extremely unlikely that she invented the entire thing if she had never found Winston. More plausible, although extremely unlikely, is that she had invented an unknown (and thus assuredly never to be found) attacker.
Instead she called the cops and found their suspect for them despite immediately realizing that he was a big name and this would complicate her life and this case immensely.
Sorry, I don't believe she did all that to falsely accuse Winston of a crime. I don't believe those are the actions of a woman who is just making up a story to take money from a future professional athlete one who had yet to take a snap for FSU.
I don't believe that is how a woman out to wrongly accuse someone, anyone, would act. I don't believe anyone interested in doing such a wicked thing to another person would concoct the whole story and not even accuse an actual person for over a month. What's the point?
I think this pretty much sums up how ridiculous the idea of her making this up is.
She needed to immediately tell a friend she was assaulted.
She needed to have that friend call the police and subject herself to questioning.
She needed the first police department to call a second police department for another interview and evidence collection.
She needed all of this to occur in her dorm, where the presence of police, and thus the painful reason for their presence, would surely be known by all of the other students.
She needed to admit she was out drinking despite being underage. She needed to admit she left a bar alone with three men when she didn't even know their names. She needed to admit getting in a cab and going to their apartment. All of this is behavior that would be, for many, embarrassing or even shameful to discuss.
She needed to willingly go to the hospital and endure a rape kit, which, by all accounts, is one of the most dehumanizing and humiliating experiences a person can go through.
She needed to have another talk with police at the hospital and discuss her drinking and actions that night with medical professionals. She needed to willingly subject herself to a toxicology test.
She needed to wake her parents in the middle of the night and talk to them about being assaulted, while acknowledging behavior (drinking, leaving the bar with strange men, etc.) that they presumably would disapprove. How many women want to discuss sex, in any way, shape or form, with their father?
She needed to tell more friends of this behavior the next day, even though the least humiliating thing she could have ever done was never tell anyone where she was. Other than Winston and his two FSU teammates he lived with, no one knew where she went that night. Had she been embarrassed by consensual actions, she could've just remained silent and hoped to never run into guys she didn't even know again.
She needed to go to the TPD the next afternoon for an additional interview, which was recorded. She needed to file a false police report knowing that, if it were proven she lied, she would be prosecuted. She needed to repeatedly lie to the police, another crime.
So she did all of that, she subjected herself to what was likely embarrassment over her actions and the incident to her parents, friends, dormmates, police, nurses and so on, underwent the horror of a rape kit, she did all of that to accuse no one.
No one.
Not Jameis Winston. Not an FSU football player. Not someone she was trying to get back at or wanted the attention of or whatever other motivation there might be.
She accused no one. She had no name. She had no real identification. She had nothing.
Remember, she didn't realize it was Winston until over a month later, where, now with so much time between the incident that, should she have been making this up or embellishing it or just doing it as some sick plan to get attention and sympathy, she could've let it fade off forever without any consequence.
According to FBI studies of false reports, it would actually be more believable although still extremely unlikely that she invented the entire thing if she had never found Winston. More plausible, although extremely unlikely, is that she had invented an unknown (and thus assuredly never to be found) attacker.
Instead she called the cops and found their suspect for them despite immediately realizing that he was a big name and this would complicate her life and this case immensely.
Sorry, I don't believe she did all that to falsely accuse Winston of a crime. I don't believe those are the actions of a woman who is just making up a story to take money from a future professional athlete one who had yet to take a snap for FSU.
I don't believe that is how a woman out to wrongly accuse someone, anyone, would act. I don't believe anyone interested in doing such a wicked thing to another person would concoct the whole story and not even accuse an actual person for over a month. What's the point?
I think this pretty much sums up how ridiculous the idea of her making this up is.
I've got no dog in the race. However, if I were investigating this incident the first think I would need to do is understand how it is that she seemingly left the bar with Winston willingly, yet not remember.
It would suggest that drugs were involved. Are there drugs that can produce such results? Are they readily available around the FSU campus? Does the accused have any of these drugs in his possession? Is he "known" to have these drugs? Is he known to associate with people who have these drugs?
If I can't explain that, then I can't explain the rest of the night. She doesn't say that she willingly went with him.
Most likely, that's the crime that should be investigated. Then we can figure out how much Winston was involved in getting her drugged.
Something that would not show up in a drug screne:
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I think the difference is talent.
Ej Manuel is pretty talented. Strong arm, good mechanics, athletic, fairly accurate... he was just woefully unprepared to play at this level. If Winston is more talented, it's not by much.
Maybe he's sharper between the ears, able to process information faster. Maybe that's what you're calling talent, other than that, Ej Manuel is every bit, if not more, the athlete Jameis Winston is.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Its happened before.
I actually posted about this somewhere around here. I have no idea if Winston did anything heinous or not here, but my cousins were involved in an incident like this when they were in high school where a white girl gave blow jobs on the back of a bus.
It got around school....She said she was forced to do it.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I don't really know if I can fully define talent.
I'm not talking physical attributes. Michael Vick has supreme physical attributes, but when it comes to playing QB he's not all that talented.
Feel for the game....Just making the right play at the right time...Placement of throws....
Besides mental capacity...besides physical ability....It's like anything in life...Some people just appear to have more talent for certain things...They just seem more natural at it...
I don't know what it is, but Manuel never looked like a really talented QB in that regard. At least not to me.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I had a friend get into a similar situation as well. He got kicked out of school. She later apologized to him and added that if they had only been quiet about it, things would have been different.
And in both these cases the girl had something to gain. Totally different situations. I'm not saying he did it. My point is I believe that she believes it happened. She not just making this up to protect her reputation or to make money off him.
And for every storyline the ones you guys have posted I'm sure there are just as many if not more guys who said they didn't rape a girl but did.
Ignoring the rape allegations I still wouldn't take him in any round. He's an immature headcase. Giving him a lot of money isn't the best way of changing that.
This. On top of the rape, which may or may not have happened, you have a kid who constantly finds a way to get in the spotlight in a negative way. Not worth it.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Won't sniff 16. Won't sniff 5.
Aside from the sexual allegations, he has had three other incidents that seemed like they were more college pranks than anything else. He has less negative spotlight than Manziel had in college.
Two former Bucs QBs (Trent Dilfer and Shaun King) are already pushing for Winston on a local station here. King thinks Winston is on the same level as Luck and Dilfer says he would go with Winston because he is NFL ready and Mariota is going to take a while to learn how to be a NFL QB (if he ever does).
It's funny how opinions are changing daily around here. Next week they will be back on the Mariota bandwagon. That said I am guilty of that also.
It's funny how opinions are changing daily around here. Next week they will be back on the Mariota bandwagon. That said I am guilty of that also.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
It's funny how opinions are changing daily around here. Next week they will be back on the Mariota bandwagon. That said I am guilty of that also.
This time last year they had us taking Johnny Football #1 overall.
I don't know about Manuel being "woefully unprepared". He's not a turnover machine. I think his main problem has been accuracy. 58% is poor in today's passing attacks. Still, I have to wonder if Marrone didn't pull the plug too soon. If Manuel had just had decent accuracy in the Texan game, the Bills would have won. And I think that led Marrone to go to Orton. Orton was a slight improvement, sure. But, I have to believe a guy with less than 16 starts would have made improvements, himself.
However, Manuel has never been the playmaker that Winston is. I don't care how you break it down, Winston makes plays. That's why he's considered a top of the draft talent. Yeah, they went to the same school. And they have similar size and attributes. One of them has the "it" factor. That's not Manuel.
No idea. But if you read her statement in the police report, she got into a cab with 2 people she had never met. That's not accurate, because there were photos and videos of her dancing and kissing Winston that night. Also, there was cellphone video of one of Winston's roommates having sex with her. And they were never charged with rape after the police reviewed the video. That wasn't in her police report, either.
I don't know or pretend to know what happened. But, I can see why the police and DA didn't press charges after her statement didn't match the evidence. I can't say she completely made this up. I also can't say that Winston raped her.
The NFL does their own investigations on prospects, and have a lot more resources than fans will ever have. After that, teams will deem Winston worth the risk or not. We'll find out on draft day.
That's cool. I'm not arguing one point or the other, just trying to get a better bead on Jameis Winston. I think Ej Manuel is a good comparison because they played in the same system, one after the other. Someone brought up Christian Ponder, I forgot he played at Florida State... but that's another recent High picked QB.
Is Jimbo Fisher producing good QBs or making the most of the talent he's got?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I get the thought process, but i just don't think it works that way.
Lots of good college/nfl qb's in between not as good guys in their college programs. Some with similar physical skill sets.
This seams a little unlikely to have really happened considering her boyfriend was black.
Actually in the police report she states that she Had a shot then the next thing she knows she is in the backseat of a taxi with a person she had never met and another person.
the way this story is told is very consistent with alcohol related "fragmentary" blackouts. If you had ever had them you would know what I'm talking about.
The cell phone video was not of a roomeate having sex with her. It was supposably of Winston and her and was never seen by any police. I don't know where you got that info from.
In the Chris Casher's videotaped testimony, the teammate with Winston that night, he also admitted to videotaping Winston and the accuser during the incident, but then deleting it later on.
It sounds like what happened was that the girl drank too much too fast and experienced a fragmentary blackout. During this time she was being flirtatious with Winston. He took her back to his apt and had sex with her.
SHE: should of not been drinking so irresponsibly but she's human and people make mistakes.
BUT: She was having fun and things got out of control before she realized it.
HE: Should not of taken a strange clearly intoxicated girl home and had sex with her.
BUT: He is human and most likely intoxicated himself and let his youthful hormones and youthful ignorance get the best of him.
She is not a whore who has gone out of her way to drag this popular kids name through the mud and ruin his possible future for attention.
He is not a rapist or soulless pig who goes out looking to take advantage of poor little drunk girls.
They are two young inexperienced adults who both made mistakes while consuming alcohol. This is happens all the time all over the world. There is no winner here. They both have lost more than most will ever realize and hopefully have learned a valuable lesson from this experience.
Now if the girl was drugged that is a totally different story. But unfortunately the police did such a crappy job of handling this case that no one will ever know. Hopefully they have learned a valuable lesson also. A rape kit with immediate blood and alcohol testing should be first priority in any future possible rape cases.
At this point there really is no reason to discuss this case any further unless new evidence is discovered. Winston could of very well raped her but there is not enough evidence to go any further. As unfair as that sounds it is what it is.
You took the long way to get to where we are... but hey, as long as we're here right?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Does the fact that she have a boyfriend make it more likely that she didn't want it to get out that she was giving it up to a couple football players?
At the end of the day, we simply don't know. He may have or he may not have.
Read the post I was responding to.
And you can determine this how?
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
(sigh) Is he gonna get here with a huge hype-machine. Act like a primadonna correcting us all on the pronunciation of his name...then play 20 glorious seconds before getting a hangnail or some ISHT?
All in the last year. You would think he would possibly learn considering everything at steak. Nope.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Texian
Hall of Fame
18 INTs for starters.
I guess Winston was a lot smarter in 2013, when he had 10 INTS.