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JaDeveon Clowney

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TEXANRED said:
you will have to dig for that quote, I posted that 9 years ago. I re-googled it and was not willing to sift through 9 years of info. If you would like, feel free to sift through 8-9 years worth of information. Maybe I was not entering the correct search criteria. But the quote from A to B is virtually the same.

My question is if the H/C has as much power as some would say then why spend millions of dollars on a GM?
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Now you're just pissing on your own shoes. There have been plenty of reported cases of HCs having say over the GM. Now you can think that's a dumb arrangement but it's a fact.
 
infantrycak said:
Now you're just pissing on your own shoes. There have been plenty of reported cases of HCs having say over the GM. Now you can think that's a dumb arrangement but it's a fact.
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Nope, shoes are dry. Other teams may have that arrangement but it's not how the Texans do business.

Rick Smith has final say on draft day for the last 8 years, Rick Smith is the one who traded Ryans, let Quinn walk for Reed, let Barwin walk, cut OD, cut Winston and Brisiel with no viable plan, has been in cap hell ever since we signed JJo and Manning. Rick Smith is the one who passed on Manning and gave Schaub some stupidly large extension.

The talent, or lack there of, is all on Rick Smith.

Rick Smith is the Gomer Pyle of NFL GM's.
 
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL · Oct 18

Clowney has been limited in practice 2 days in a row. Told media he can't run laterally. How can he play and not be able to run laterally?
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The same way AJ could play if he were wearing a patch over one eye.

For the Texans to be even entertaining throwing Clowney out there tomorrow for any period of time...........after he has not only had no full week of "full" practice, but not even a single day of "full" practice........and has volunteered in his own words that he has no lateral mobility and has avoided drills requiring such movements.....seems to be quite ill-advised.

A November 2013 study demonstrated that over 50% of these partial lateral meniscectomy patients have significant pain and/or effusion in the knee after their return-to-sport.........only ~20% for their medial meniscectomy group. The recovery is not considered a "piece of cake."

Following small arthroscopic resections of meniscus tissue, I would have to ask why a stabilizing knee brace, which Clowney is now wearing, is felt to be necessary. Does he have still have significant quad weakness? Does he have accompanying ligament damage that has not been revealed?

With the reports of his "progress" and the evidence of his limitations at this point, it would not surprise me at all if Clowney did not make it back to even the Titans game....and if he did by then, I would not expect to see that much from him. I would also say that after this type of surgery, overall it can take a player a good 4-5 months before he is as good as he will ultimately be. For sure, this is too soon to become impatient.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The same way AJ could play if he were wearing a patch over one eye.

For the Texans to be even entertaining throwing Clowney out there tomorrow for any period of time...........after he has not only had no full week of "full" practice, but not even a single day of "full" practice........and has volunteered in his own words that he has no lateral mobility and has avoided drills requiring such movements.....seems to be quite ill-advised.

A November 2013 study demonstrated that over 50% of these partial lateral meniscectomy patients have significant pain and/or effusion in the knee after their return-to-sport.........only ~20% for their medial meniscectomy group. The recovery is not considered a "piece of cake."

Following small arthroscopic resections of meniscus tissue, I would have to ask why a stabilizing knee brace, which Clowney is now wearing, is felt to be necessary. Does he have still have significant quad weakness? Does he have accompanying ligament damage that has not been revealed?

With the reports of his "progress" and the evidence of his limitations at this point, it would not surprise me at all if Clowney did not make it back to even the Titans game....and if he did by then, I would not expect to see that much from him. I would also say that after this type of surgery, overall it can take a player a good 4-5 months before he is as good as he will ultimately be. For sure, this is too soon to become impatient.
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Don't mean to sound callus but people, including myself, have gone back to work with injuries far more severe for far less money.

It's time Clowney earns that $22 million guaranteed.
 
TEXANRED said:
Don't mean to sound callus but people, including myself, have gone back to work with injuries far more severe for far less money.

It's time Clowney earns that $22 million guaranteed.
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yeah not interested in a 40% clowney for 40% of the game...

This ain't your normal 9-5
 
Clowney still has not played a full NFL game yet, so any game experience is out the window. And he won't be near 100% healthy. I'm nervous about him playing tonight.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
A November 2013 study demonstrated that over 50% of these partial lateral meniscectomy patients have significant pain and/or effusion in the knee after their return-to-sport...The recovery is not considered a "piece of cake."

...I would also say that after this type of surgery, overall it can take a player a good 4-5 months before he is as good as he will ultimately be. For sure, this is too soon to become impatient.
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Even allowing him to play at full speed in an NFL game would be negligent... when he can't even do all the drills in practice. We're talking drills, here.

JB said:
... If it sets clowney back a few weeks then no thanks
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Or takes him out for the season.

HouTx11 said:
Clowney... won't be near 100% healthy. I'm nervous about him playing tonight.
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You should be. What a waste it would be to have OB learn what an id!ot Geoff Kaplan is on the back of our #1 pick. Kaplan is a trainer. Where is the doctor in charge?

Could he go out there for some snaps and not come away worse from it? Maybe. But how can he be effective if he can't move laterally? Because he can't move laterally.

:logo:
 
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If we are going to keep trotting Fitz out there, might as well IR Clowney and get those bone spurs taken care of so he is ready to go 100% next season. We are not going anywhere this year anyway. Why risk the injury for 8-8 if we are lucky?
 
How's the field at Pittsburgh? I'd rather him come back on the road on a field that won't sneak up and take him out again.
 
PapaL said:
How's the field at Pittsburgh? I'd rather him come back on the road on a field that won't sneak up and take him out again.
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It hasn't been played on the last two weeks and the weather isn't bad yet. So hopefully good condition for "Heinz field." But there's a real good chance of rain.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The same way AJ could play if he were wearing a patch over one eye.

For the Texans to be even entertaining throwing Clowney out there tomorrow for any period of time...........after he has not only had no full week of "full" practice, but not even a single day of "full" practice........and has volunteered in his own words that he has no lateral mobility and has avoided drills requiring such movements.....seems to be quite ill-advised.

A November 2013 study demonstrated that over 50% of these partial lateral meniscectomy patients have significant pain and/or effusion in the knee after their return-to-sport.........only ~20% for their medial meniscectomy group. The recovery is not considered a "piece of cake."

Following small arthroscopic resections of meniscus tissue, I would have to ask why a stabilizing knee brace, which Clowney is now wearing, is felt to be necessary. Does he have still have significant quad weakness? Does he have accompanying ligament damage that has not been revealed?

With the reports of his "progress" and the evidence of his limitations at this point, it would not surprise me at all if Clowney did not make it back to even the Titans game....and if he did by then, I would not expect to see that much from him. I would also say that after this type of surgery, overall it can take a player a good 4-5 months before he is as good as he will ultimately be. For sure, this is too soon to become impatient.
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Would they have been better off repairing the meniscus rather than cutting the torn part off?
 
Nitrofish said:
If we are going to keep trotting Fitz out there, might as well IR Clowney and get those bone spurs taken care of so he is ready to go 100% next season. We are not going anywhere this year anyway. Why risk the injury for 8-8 if we are lucky?
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Because this is how you want the head coach (or any other decision maker) of a 3-3 NFL team to think?
 
ChampionTexan said:
Because this is how you want the head coach (or any other decision maker) of a 3-3 NFL team to think?
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Yes actually. I do not want our head coach to be shortsighted. Trying to win a couple of extra games by trotting out Clowney early does not outweigh the possibility of hurting Clowney by rushing him out too early. I personally want him to have bone spurs removal surgery and just shut it down this season. It will be better for him in the long run.
 
chenjy9 said:
Yes actually. I do not want our head coach to be shortsighted. Trying to win a couple of extra games by trotting out Clowney early does not outweigh the possibility of hurting Clowney by rushing him out too early. I personally want him to have bone spurs removal surgery and just shut it down this season. It will be better for him in the long run.
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Well that just walked smooth into the counter argument. A couple extra games on 8-8 is 10-6 and a high likelihood of a playoff berth.

Having said that, I agree generally the HC should look at the long term on player health. It would be stupid to ruin your brand new toy on a "so you're saying there's a chance" gamble.
 
You do not take a chance if you are a player or a team. You drafted Clowney to hopefully be a special elite player for many years or you would have not drafted him first.
 
chenjy9 said:
Yes actually. I do not want our head coach to be shortsighted. Trying to win a couple of extra games by trotting out Clowney early does not outweigh the possibility of hurting Clowney by rushing him out too early. I personally want him to have bone spurs removal surgery and just shut it down this season. It will be better for him in the long run.
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That's a slightly different response. If he needs the time off or additional surgery, that's one thing, but for the decision to be based on "We are not going anywhere this year anyway" is the attitude of a loser. Do what's right (whatever that is) because it's right - not because you've given up.
 
If Clowney plays tonight I will be disappointed in BoB and question our organizations ability to make rational decisions. He is 1.1, you don't take a chance. Keep him out until after the bye week and then unleash him at 110%. Not like we have any delusions of making the playoffs ... make sure he is as healthy as humanly possible for the future.
 
If he's ready to play, you play him. If he's not ready to play, you don't play him.

If you think he'll re-injure himself playing, then he's not ready to play.
 
ChampionTexan said:
That's a slightly different response. If he needs the time off or additional surgery, that's one thing, but for the decision to be based on "We are not going anywhere this year anyway" is the attitude of a loser. Do what's right (whatever that is) because it's right - not because you've given up.
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I apologize for misunderstanding your post then.
 
PapaL said:
How's the field at Pittsburgh? I'd rather him come back on the road on a field that won't sneak up and take him out again.
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:rolleyes: JJ Watt's been playing on it just fine.

Just IR the fragile m'fcker and be done with it.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If he's ready to play, you play him. If he's not ready to play, you don't play him.

If you think he'll re-injure himself playing, then he's not ready to play.
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The key being definition of "ready". BBQ can be "ready" if you are willing to eat it right now, or you can wait until the brisket has smoked a few more hours and it is perfect. Know what I mean? I don't think JD is as healed as it will possibly heal, so in my opinion he isn't ready. Give him more time to get the full movement back and be absolutely issue free ... then he is ready.
 
kingtexan said:
The key being definition of "ready". BBQ can be "ready" if you are willing to eat it right now, or you can wait until the brisket has smoked a few more hours and it is perfect. Know what I mean? I don't think JD is as healed as it will possibly heal, so in my opinion he isn't ready. Give him more time to get the full movement back and be absolutely issue free ... then he is ready.
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To reiterate what TPN said, if he's at minimal risk of reinjuring it or reversing any recovery so far, then make him available.

The problem with your analogy is that if you eat the brisket before it's fully smoked, it's gone forever, and you'll never see the optimal product.

If reinjury isn't an issue (and I'm not pretending I know one way or the other), playing Clowney now doesn't preclude you from a more fully smoked Clowney down the road.
 
A lot of ifs here. Any player will always be at risk for either rein jury or a new injury.
 
He tore his meniscus and they went in and trimmed/radiused torn part hoping that would stop further tearing. I don't believe they sewed it back up otherwise he would have been out much longer. I think they know he will need another surgery at some point to repair properly. Troubling that he really did nothing and tear occurred.
 
I actually thought Clowney was going to be ready against the Colts a few Thursdays ago. I fully expect him to play tonight. Any snaps he can get is a good thing.
 
gafftop said:
He tore his meniscus and they went in and trimmed/radiused torn part hoping that would stop further tearing. I don't believe they sewed it back up otherwise he would have been out much longer. I think they know he will need another surgery at some point to repair properly. Troubling that he really did nothing and tear occurred.
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I don't know if that's how it is supposed to work. In my very limited understanding of meniscus tears, some can actually be repaired while others can only be trimmed. If you trim it when you have the option of repairing for a quick recovery, I don't think you can repair it anymore. Perhaps CnD can give us further insight on this?
 
ChampionTexan said:
That's a slightly different response. If he needs the time off or additional surgery, that's one thing...
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So how do we know if he needs additional time off, or if he's just being a prima-dona? For the procedure done, the doctors said he should be healed & ready to go in x amount of time. That time has passed.

Not only that, but he's been going through physical therapy where the aids (or whatever they're called) measured his progress. I know it's not an exact science, but that's the point. This is not an exact science. There's no way for them to look at the repair & say, "Yup, he's good."

For all we know, the doctors & the physical therapist told the Texans he was good last week & they gave him this extra time off because he said he wasn't ready. Now they may be thinking they've been more than fair & it's time for him to man up.
 
PapaL said:
Every player is at risk of injury. They're not out there baking cookies.
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Exactly. One play can end your career even when fully healthy. Truth be told no starting player in the NFL, not even punters or kickers, are truly ever healthy during the course of the season and playoffs. All this talk about giving Clowney more rest is ridiculous. If he's ready to play then he should play. We drafted him number one overall to produce good results on the field. Not sit out an extra week or month just because we're afraid he's going to get hurt again.
 
chenjy9 said:
...Perhaps CnD can give us further insight on this?
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I think he has...

CloakNNNdagger said:
If it is an isolated lateral meniscus tear, I would expect the spectrum closer to 6-8 weeks for full recovery from this surgery. The problem is that a lateral meniscus can be associated with MCL and/or ACL injuries. Neither of these injuries would surprise me as a finding at surgery.......especially an MCL. If this would be the case, recovery could be expected to be significantly longer.

From the picture below, imagine the lateral meniscus being crushed (coming down wobbly and hard from his jump). Such a crush would bend the knee joint to that side (creating a closed angle). The resulting bend on that side would cause the other side of the joint (the MCL side) to be forced into an open angle.....stretching/tearing the MCL which is there as a check ligament to prevent this type of movement.

Fx_ligaments_knee.gif


This is actually a diagram of a congenital condition mimicking essentially the same type relationship of the knee position I am speaking of above.

436px-Genu_valgum.svg.png


Lateral meniscus tears can be caused by disruption of hip mechanics, especially if chronic. As any of you that have followed my medical posts on Clowney would know, sports hernias in most cases have been found to be associated with hip problems (especially femoral acetabular impingment). Most of the time, if the hip problem is not addressed, it lends itself to continued faulty core and hip mechanics which in turn encourage compromised performance and/or significantly increase the subsequent risk for future lower limb injuries (not to mention recurrent sports hernia problems). And let's not forget the chronic bone spur problems which encourages hip mechanical problems to begin with.

(You can also see from the skeleton diagram above how faulty alignment starting with the hips extending down to the knees and ankles can create an ongoing mechanical joint stress nightmare.)
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CloakNNNdagger said:
With the estimate of 4-6 weeks given by the Texans, they have to be talking about a very small lateral meniscus tear in which they intend to be "removing" a small portion of the meniscus (removal of any portion of a meniscus is referred to as a "meniscectomy"). If they go in there and decide to perform a "repair" of the meniscus or if they have to remove a significant section of the meniscus, I would not expect him to return this season. (I explained the "excision" vs. "repair" implications in a Louis Nix thread a while back.......Nix underwent the latter.) Keep in mind that lateral meniscus tears when compared to comparable tears in the medial meniscus carry a greater degree of concern as far as return to play and the level at which the performance may be affected upon return.

I'd like to share with you the abstract of a very recent and very-appropriate-to-this-discussion study that came out in the American Journal of Sports Medicine just a couple of months ago.......co-authored by Dr. James Andrew the "orthopedic guru."


For those interested in additional details of the study: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFsQFjAIOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FKyle_Aune%2Fpublication%2F262978076_Return_to_Play_After_Partial_Lateral_Meniscectomy_in_National_Football_League_Athletes%2Flinks%2F0a85e53a98fe68b6a8000000&ei=MuQNVOfHOrHo8AHhvIG4Dw&usg=AFQjCNHm826wFnRUHq7h3YQKvN6SD8d32A&bvm=bv.74649129,d.b2U
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CloakNNNdagger said:
This is not a MEDIAL meniscus.........this is a LATERAL meniscus injury/excision......a much worse animal that NEEDS much more rehab time.......whether he ends up being given it or not.
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chenjy9 said:
Apologies for the confusion, I was referring to reading somewhere that not all tears can actually be repaired and would have to be trimmed.
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Yeah, he addresses that in the middle block quote -- I bolded it. We assume it's a meniscectomy and not a repair, but only based on spotty team/media reports and the optimistic (compared to the NFL study) timetable.


I assume somebody already posted this, but if not...

Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
I've said all along that it's Clowney's call. He doesn't want to play, team hopes that competitive juices will kick in on day of the game.

Much to his surprise, Clowney is traveling with the Texans today to Pittsburgh. Team holding out hope that they can pressure him to play.
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Playoffs said:
Yeah, he addresses that in the middle block quote -- I bolded it. We assume it's a meniscectomy and not a repair, but only based on spotty team/media reports and the optimistic (compared to the NFL study) timetable.


I assume somebody already posted this, but if not...

Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
​
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I just don't understand this. I really don't believe the team is leaking info like this.
 
Playoffs said:
Yeah, he addresses that in the middle block quote -- I bolded it. We assume it's a meniscectomy and not a repair, but only based on spotty team/media reports and the optimistic (compared to the NFL study) timetable.


I assume somebody already posted this, but if not...

Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
​
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He's the only guy who has been pushing this story. I'm not saying he's full of ****, or always wrong, but when there's only one guy in the media that is pushing a narrative, the natural reaction should probably be suspicion.

Also, I would hope OB has long term interests in mind when making decisions like this but the nature of employment as an NFL head coach dictates that you have to make a lot of decisions that make the team win in the more immediate future than the longer term.
 
amazing80 said:
I just don't understand this. I really don't believe the team is leaking info like this.
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I don't think it's "the team" -- I think it's someone within the organization doing it on their own.

b0ng said:
He's the only guy who has been pushing this story. I'm not saying he's full of ****, or always wrong, but when there's only one guy in the media that is pushing a narrative, the natural reaction should probably be suspicion...
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JB has always proved to be pretty spot on and ahead of the curve on things like this. He has proven to have good sources in the past. Most media operate in a quid pro quo manner with the teams they cover.

I think it's wrong-headed and a ch!ckensh!t way to do business. Hopefully it gets reviewed. I'd like the team to get rid of Kaplan and reorganize their entire medical staff. IMO, there's been to many mistakes emanating from this current group.

One thing for sure -- OB is buying something from somebody to be putting JD on the travelling squad.
 
If they really wanna be on the safe side might has well hold him out till after the bye

That, will give him like a, extra month of rest ......
 
We should wait another few games just to make sure. It's not as if we need him to help us in the play offs or anything. This season is a wash. It's a tune up season for next year.
 
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