infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ok maybe monosyllabic will work.
I want OB to win.
He is not.
The team he has built is crap.
I want OB to win.
He is not.
The team he has built is crap.
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I'm rooting for the Texans to lose today
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Your big words you keep carefully choosing to deflect with isn't going to work here Cak. Would the Texans going to the playoffs be a problem to you? Do you want to see them get in with or without a winning record?
Why does it matter if they get the opportunity to make a run at a ring in the big tournament? That certainly didn't stop other teams from believing they could win it.
If they get in, you know for sure that OB keeps his job. That will happen. Is that why you don't want them to go?
With Mcnair's history, he is likely here for a 3rd season any way. (Nothing is for certain)
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'm as down on me his team as anyone but that's not necessarily true. There are other options...some less desirable than others.
1) they could still pick a guy late first or in the second that could start.
2) Savage better be in the mix to start
3) we could trade up in the draft
4) we could trade for or sign someone though it may not be a real good option.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is not a credible team. Playoffs on some kind of miasm of suck won't change that.
Arguing Giants, Ravens...you know better. Those were good teams shooting themselves in the foot. We ain't got a foot or gun.
Arguing Giants, Ravens...you know better. Those were good teams shooting themselves in the foot. We ain't got a foot or gun.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Dude is long winded.
Exascor
Veteran
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
4 straight posts now, and you still keep ducking the questions that are asked of you.
At least Marcus can freely admit what he wants, and why.
What we can't discuss other average teams that made the playoffs and happen to win the SB? Why? Do you honestly think it would be any different than when the Texans made the playoffs the first time with Yates?? The Texans had no chance of winning squat that year with Yates. They did get a win against the Bengals though, and that was great to see. Having a competitive game against the Ravens was as well. You could root for that though, because you liked that HC. You better hope that the Texans fire OB then, because if they don't you're going to have at least two years of rooting for them to lose from now. Mcnair doesn't like to fire people fast either.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I am too. I've tried to stop but it's just my nature.
I couldn't give a general sh*t about this team backing their way into the playoffs. This team reeks of mediocre. They shot for mediocre when they hitched their wagon to Hoyer. For that mediocre investment at best they'll get my mediocre concern back. Being selected for the playoffs like a .190 hitting shortstop on a garbage baseball team for the allstar game, just because it's a rule that has to happen, doesn't give me enthusiasm to watch them get shellacked in the wild card round.
I know people say 'what's a high draft choice matter with Rick Smith at the helm', but I'll take Smith getting lucky with more good options available to him over watching this sad sack of sh*t football team limp in to someone else's house in January like a lamb to slaughter. Especially if further suck gets Smith promoted to a position of roster molding irrelevance, that seeing as how he's on McNair's payroll for life by all accounts. And further especially if the new guy molding the new roster would pick a guy who would hopefully then have the likelihood of being coached up by a better staff than the bunch of blind leading blind incompetents in charge right now.
Losing sucks, and a losing culture is worse. But if house cleaning is in order than I'd rather the process be as quick and painless as possible. Being trotted out as a 'playoff team' in name only is not quick nor painless and wouldn't lead to anything other than sticking to the mediocre formula that got us to this mediocre culture in the first place.
I know people say 'what's a high draft choice matter with Rick Smith at the helm', but I'll take Smith getting lucky with more good options available to him over watching this sad sack of sh*t football team limp in to someone else's house in January like a lamb to slaughter. Especially if further suck gets Smith promoted to a position of roster molding irrelevance, that seeing as how he's on McNair's payroll for life by all accounts. And further especially if the new guy molding the new roster would pick a guy who would hopefully then have the likelihood of being coached up by a better staff than the bunch of blind leading blind incompetents in charge right now.
Losing sucks, and a losing culture is worse. But if house cleaning is in order than I'd rather the process be as quick and painless as possible. Being trotted out as a 'playoff team' in name only is not quick nor painless and wouldn't lead to anything other than sticking to the mediocre formula that got us to this mediocre culture in the first place.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I understand the premise and the points you're making. I've felt that way before under some of the really bad years of Kubiak. I, personally just think its to early to think this way entirely. But if you do, then I can understand the thought process if you feel that the HC is completely incapable of ever winning a SB with the right QB or the right group of guys. Honestly, if losing badly the rest of the year meant for sure that Rick Smith was gone, then I possibly fall into that category of wanting that. I just have serious doubts that Mcnair will fire Smith even after a record of 6-10 or 5-11.
Thanks for at least admitting to that and being upfront about it unlike many others. It makes the discussion a hell of a lot easier as I can understand why it is that you'd be rooting for the team to fail, and why you want that to be the case.
I've been in favor of OB since day one. And me saying he's incompetent is more frustration than actual belief. I think the guy could be a generally winning football coach, and with all the stars aligned he could be a trophy competitive football coach. But I think he's lacking one or two killer instinct and gut instinct variables at this stage of his career that actually lead a team to consistently being on top. I think decisions he's made this year show that if anything he's just a little raw right here and now, he needs to be in the oven a little longer. And my patience couldn't give a rip to wait for that.
Smith won't get fired. I certainly doubt it. But he could be given a private island far far away from any relevant football decision making situations that would do all parties involved all the favors necessary to steer this team toward success while still keep The Family happy.
I'm actually angry at this team most for making me feel comfortable in hoping that the wheels fall completely off just for the sake of rebuilding sounding the better option. It's like hoping a relative hits rock bottom. You certainly don't want it in general, but if it's best for the situation at hand, at more so at large, well ...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't change my posts. Period.
Go on your long winded rants, whatever. Don't present something I didn't say as a quote.
I don't know how to be any more clear - I don't care about the suck ass Texans making the playoffs in a suck ass division . We won't go anywhere. We are a bad team.
It is possible to still root for your team to win, still want them to clean house from GM on down, and recognize that a 7-9 division "championship" is nothing but fool's gold when the house is built on sand. None of these perspectives are mutually exclusive to each other.
Unfortunately, another division "championship" banner for a crappy division will tell our rather myopic owner that this team is on the right track and absolutely nothing will change...except the ticket prices, of course.
Getting to the playoffs should be just another step in a road to an ultimate goal, not the ultimate goal itself.
Getting to the playoffs only to get your asses handed to you by the Patriots or whoever is not success.
Captain Obvious here: The only way to obtain a championship is to build a team that can actually compete with those teams. And we are about as far from that kind of build as you can get right now.
When Kubiak did it we had fun because it was the first time, and we had hope that it was building on things. Obviously, that's not where it ended up. For some, there would be lessons to be learned here.
Fan concerns are that history repeats itself. McNair only takes action when things are obvious and results are two win seasons. McNair is the living epitome of Einstein's insanity definition: doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.
Unfortunately, another division "championship" banner for a crappy division will tell our rather myopic owner that this team is on the right track and absolutely nothing will change...except the ticket prices, of course.
Getting to the playoffs should be just another step in a road to an ultimate goal, not the ultimate goal itself.
Getting to the playoffs only to get your asses handed to you by the Patriots or whoever is not success.
Captain Obvious here: The only way to obtain a championship is to build a team that can actually compete with those teams. And we are about as far from that kind of build as you can get right now.
When Kubiak did it we had fun because it was the first time, and we had hope that it was building on things. Obviously, that's not where it ended up. For some, there would be lessons to be learned here.
Fan concerns are that history repeats itself. McNair only takes action when things are obvious and results are two win seasons. McNair is the living epitome of Einstein's insanity definition: doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.
I have never seen such apathy at a Texans game as last Sunday, especially after a win. Hopefully this sends the McNair's a message, if they even care.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
All i'm going to say is be careful what you wish for. Everyone wants us to suck so we can get a high draft pick to draft a qb, a new coach & GM....etc..as if us sucking guarantees any of that or there's absolutely no way that any of that can be screwed up or there's no potential downside to any of that...and we won't be back here in another 2 years or less discussing the same stuff.
We went through this same line of thinking with the Mallet thing & before that with the Keenum thing..Changing something isn't an automatic better & far too often many fans (not you) want to change something just for the hope that its gonna be better with the next iteration....& more often than not, it usually isn't.
As for this particular situation, it's slightly different. What we've seen from McNair is that he tends to step in when the embarrassment threshold reaches epic levels....14 straight losses in 2013 and a qb setting pick 6 records...epic embarrassment.......all time worst defense in 2010, epic embarrassment. But that epic embarrassment may not be limited to seasonal situations...we're still a young franchise & we honestly don't know how McNair will react.
For all we know winning the division, backing into the playoffs with a garbage record and getting steamrolled in the playoffs like we did against Miami by another team except this being a national stage...that might just be our salvation...we honestly don't know how McNair is gonna react b/c we've never been here before.
I think we all just have to take a step back and realize that this franchise is still the youngest in the league and there are still lots of situations that we as a franchise have not faced.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No one changed your post, and how about you stop making false accusations, because your to chicken to answer simple questions.
You were asked several times if you'd root for the Texans in the playoffs, and all you keep doing is dancing around the subject, because you don't want to admit that you'll never root for them with OB as their HC. Even in the playoffs you wouldn't.
Guess what the Texans were in Kubiak's 2nd season here at this time? 3-5! At that time, you were giddy and gleeful about the Texans because the HC was here that you wanted. The Texans fan base was torn at the time between Schaub and Rosenfels since Schaub couldn't stay healthy and Rosenfels was playing arguably as good to many people. We had a similar QB situation for the most part with slight differences. But then, you loved where the Texans were with the same record, and made every argument in the world that we were on the right track even though we went on for another 3 years before we even sniffed the playoffs.
Now we're tied for first place by default, but you won't root for this team to do well even though we have the same record that we had in the 2nd year of Kubiak's tenure?
You have zero consistency.
Spot On
And you're wrong, there's plenty of consistency, Cak like many others on this MB has a love for Kubiak that knows no bounds. What gets me is with Kubiak winning in Denver with a GM that has a plan and full support of ownership to do whatever it takes to win, why dont these posters put their full wrath where it firmly belongs with the McNair's and Smith?
They cant or wont do this because, A. They would have to admit they were wrong about the McNair's. B. They just love drinking beer and eating BBQ at the tailgates that winning doesn't really matter. C. They are employees or currently getting somekind of special access to the Texans. Steph, Patrick Starr, Harris , McClain etc.... and this is totally understandable.
Why yes I believe it does.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Man that playoff game vs ravens was the last time I was truly fired up and into the texans. That was the best texan team. Seems so long ago
dream_team
Hall of Fame
The main goal of every season is to win the Super Bowl, plain & simple. Doesn't matter how you got there, as long as you got it done.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't go liar. It's right there.
You and steelb can have a circle jerk somewhere, whatever. Don't care if the coach is OB, Kubiak, Jimmy Johnson or Tom Landry. Right now this team sucks. What are we running as a rushing system? - here's the ball now fall down.
Stop trying to make this some past perceived agenda. This team is bad.
Why do you have to put me in there. Not a fan of the circle jerk crowd.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Hey, you adopted hs idiocracy .
Has Cak been drinking?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Damn phone.
ghostlight
Veteran
This is weird but we could lose the next 5 games and win the last three. That would make us 6&10 and lose the next playoff game. The season ends at 7&10 allowing us to be division champs while keeping us in good draft order.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Not sure what you mean by "good draft order", but the twelve playoff teams get the final twelve draft slots regardless of their regular season record, so under your scenario, the Texans would be drafting 21st.
Sigma
Veteran
^ This
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
If that's true and they still have jobs, we are in deeper trouble than I think. Bud Adams Part Deux. :-(
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
I'm hitting the age where I see the odds slowly creeping against me living to see a Houston team in the SB. So for me 7-9 and in the playoffs beats 10-6 sitting at home. Is that team's chances of making it all the way a long shot? Sure, but the odds are still infinitely better when still on the field rather than home on the couch. It's like that $1 I spend on the lottery most weeks.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
This is completely different than when Yates was the qb.
First and foremost, that was this team's first ever playoff appearance. No one is turning that down.
Second, the team overall was actually pretty good. And while Yates wasn't great he did show some good flashes. He helped us win some games.
And that game in Baltimore, despite a terrible start aided by Jacoby, the game came down to the last possession and if I remember the deep throw at the end was catchable.
I think it's a false equivalency to say that you have to feel the same way about both teams. Those two teams are not even close.
Personally, I'd rather they go ahead and make the play offs at this point because I believe that would mean they'd have to start playing better than they've been playing and I believe this would mean we'd need to finally beat Indy in Indy.
If they can play better And win in Indy I might feel a little better about this team under OB going forward.
BUT I don't believe there's an ice cubes chance in hell that happens. This team sucks and I don't think they are getting into the playoffs.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Up to $2 a week. Just doing my part to keep college dirt cheap in Georgia....not to mention I am looking at a big $7 pay day on my desk right now.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I don't know. I don't think they're going to argue over it. I just think (and nobody here really 100% "knows") that the way things work around there is that from time to time the old man puts his foot down. I expect that he will make it clear to everyone that he expects there to be a QB drafted early.
I don't really think OB and Smith will be inclined to argue the point anyway. I doubt seriously that Rick Smith gives two watery craps about Brian Hoyer and I don't think that OB is as locked into him as we've been thinking. Again, this is just my thoughts but I think Hoyer had a purpose which was to be a better Fitz and that didn't happen. OB literally pulled him the first time he got in trouble. That's not a guy who is in love with his choice for starting QB. That's a guy who was trying to get Mallett to step up and ball out. If Savage hadn't been injured against the Cowboys I don't doubt now that he'd have been given a shot in the rotation too by now.
I think OB was prepared to roll with Hoyer if he had to and probably overestimated his abilities but I don't think he's tied to him at all. In fact after this let down of a season he's probably going to want the safety net that a HC developing a rookie QB gets. On most teams it will buy you a year. On this team it will probably get him another two.
If a veteran QB comes available that he believes in (or a backup somewhere that he really likes) we might go that route but I think most likely we're going to fall short this year and it will be short enough to give us a shot at one of he better prospects in this draft.
I want to see them win out, go into the playoffs and have Brian Hoyer go down alongside Trent Dilfer as one of those QB's whose team won a title if not in spite of him then at least without him doing anything special but that's not going to happen. We all know that.
We're going QB in round one next year. I'm sure of it.
I do believe you and other fans were willing to give Kubiak a break for many yrs of mediocrity. Y'all seem unwilling to afford BOB the same luxury and this is understandable since Kubes was a good ole Aggie/hometown boy done good vs a carpetbagging yankee who is just a mean guy. (BOB)
Blaming BOB for the current state of the franchise is unfair. I know you think this is a really talented team and BOB is failing to coach them up properly. (I dont think he's done a good job either this yr flipflopping on QB's etc...) But in his 2nd yr Kubes had trouble with clock management/timeouts/replay challenges and BOB seems to be better in these areas.
Truth is the real issues are still here and likely will remain. McNair's/Smith and expecting things to change as long as Smith remains GM is very shortsighted.
Reason I'm losing patience with OB is the fact that he keeps bringing in trash qbs.
And even if you think Fitz was good, OB let him go and brought Hoyer. Now it could be Smith getting these qbs, but at least Kubiak had some sense of what he wanted in Schaub.
OB seems he doesn't have a clue.
I agree the real problems are McNair and Smith, but I don't have confidence that OB can develop a rookie qb either.
I'd take that any day of the week. If the 2015 Texans won the Super Bowl, I'd be an O'Brien and Rick Smith fan for life. But, talking about this very much has the same vibe as daydreaming about what I'd do if I won the $100 million lottery. Meaning "anything is possible", but highly improbable.
We've got to be fair here in our analysis. Kubiak inherited a garbage team in salary cap hell. He was given the benefit of the doubt just because there was the David Carr grace year that any new coach would have had with this franchise. After the Carr wars ended, Kubiak then had to build a team. Yeah, he took too long, but personally I'm glad they got some major "firsts" out of the way so we were not suffering for two decades like Saints fans. He should have been fired after 6-10 in 2010, but I'm not going to get worked up in hindsight when we finally made the playoffs in 2011 and 2012. And at least Kubiak could find his QB.
O'Brien inherited a team just a season removed from back-to-back playoff seasons. He had a much better roster than Kubiak, and that was reflected by the jump from 2-14 to 9-7. And to see that team devolve into this year's mess, a team that barely has a heartbeat, has forgotten basic football fundamentals, and has a HC that acts like an indecisive kid in a candy shop about his QB...well, I'd say we have no more patience in reserve as a fan base.
I also think that Texans fans were sort of delusional and hopeful for that first decade, myself included. We all obviously wanted the same thing at the end of the day. Now, though, we are starting to have some knowledge of how this owner operates, and there is a bit of fatigue setting in after 14 seasons. In addition, Rick Smith has been here a decade, so we can see his body of work and realize that he's not cut out to be a talent evaluating type of GM and this mediocre roster has his fingerprints all over it. And Rick Smith is a direct reflection of the will of the owner, so McNair is getting painted with that same brush.
I'm still delusional, if not hopeful. I realize that McNair was a neophyte owner, but so are most of the owners at one point. I really can't look back at any particular decision he made at the time and say "dumb move". Casserly and Capers had previous success. Kubiak was a respected assistant who was considered head coach material. Rick Smith was a up and comer from a winning organization. O'Brien was a top OC and a winning college head coach. Is it just that everything McNair touches eventually turns bad? I don't pretend to know the answer. I just know it's still not working.
I don't think you achieve billionaire status by having everything you touch go bad, but Mr. McNair has certainly had his share of bad luck as an owner. Good post.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
An admirable goal considering the AFCS teams this year.
If by 'developing a rookie' QB, you mean actually putting him on the field his rookie year, I would hope that OB would not do that. I'm as frustrated as everyone else is with the QB situation and how OB has handled it. But the last thing I want to see is another green QB thrown out there behind some fustercluck musical chair OL.
If he drafts a qb this year, do you think OB will sit him for a whole season and wait till the next one to start him?
I don't know if he has enough time to do that.
I don't see OB putting any QB out there until he feels he's ready to go out there, regardless of any time limit.
If this team makes it to the play offs from where we are, it ain't backing into the play offs.