sandman
Brexit Advisor
And RAC’s defense gave up 30+ points twice in the playoffs. With Luck only throwing 9 times in the second half of a blowout. I’m counting that as 30 points too.
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And RAC’s defense gave up 30+ points twice in the playoffs. With Luck only throwing 9 times in the second half of a blowout. I’m counting that as 30 points too.
Well BO'b has been very involved with personnel.
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Attacking RAC when it's pointed out OBriens offense sucks is weird to me. What do you think you're accomplishing with that argument? Does it make OBriens offense look better?
In any case, against the chiefs:
-the chiefs scored on special teams on the opening kickoff
-hoyer INT in the Texans red area was followed by a Texans defensive interception
-hoyer fumbled and chiefs drove 27 yards for a field goal
-texans had a 5 play, 11 yard drive which was followed by a 40 yard drive and field goal by the chiefs
-the Texans ended the first half with two more interceptions, after which the defense forced the chiefs into punts
-in the 3rd, the chiefs had two legitimate long TD drives
-after another INT on the Texans side, the chiefs drove 6 yards for a field goal.
I found the defense giving up 14, maybe 17 points attributable to them.
The Texans offense, as we know, had not even a field goal drive.
The argument isn't one of attacking RAC to shield/defend/deflect from O'Brien. The argument is that the Texans were thoroughly dominated in every facet of the game due to superior game planning, in-game adjustments and sheer ability on the field.
The Colts clearly quit pushing the ball down the field after they were up by 3 scores. The Texans didn't shut the Colts down. Reich called off the dogs during a mercy killing.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I’m simply pointing out that the defense hasn’t shown up in the playoffs just like the offense hasn’t. As the head coach OB is responsible for both, but I’m just going with this weird little subculture thing around here that credits RAC with being a highly successful and fully independent Defensive Head Coach.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Someone should tell OB if we score more points than the other team we win. Let's keep it simple. He likes to think....
sandman
Brexit Advisor
BTW, the real world counts all the points. There is no alternate facts or justification around losing 30-0. By either side of the ball.
Then Patriots game tells a similar story.
-the Pats had a legit 65 yard td drive in the first quarter after the texans offense went three and out twice
-after a Texans FG, the pats return the kickoff for a TD. (Remember it was OBrien who brought in Novak who couldn't get touchbacks)
-Bouye intercepts Brady in the pats side of the field, and the Texans, already in field goal range, kick a field goal
-the pats fumble on the ensuing kickoff and the Texans get a 12 yard td drive
-the pats end the half with a 66 yard field goal drive
-second half, pats first drive goes three and out and their second is a legit 90 yard TD drive
-the Texans throw an INT in the Texans red area (sound familiar?) and the pats score on a 6 yard TD drive
-the pats tack on another FG on a 43 yard drive
The Texans offense had one scoring drive of over 20 yards the entire game. They were practically shut out.
I count 20 points for the Pats attributable to the Texans d. The rest were due to the offense and special teams and OBriens coaching
No one said the real world doesn't count all the points. The offense sucked and the defense was good.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Your spin level is 11 right now.
Except I disagree. The defense has shown up. Offense and special teams hasnt.
Trying to attribute points given up by the offense and speical teams to RAC is spin
ST led the league in FGs, IIRC.
I was referring to the chiefs and pats playoff games.
The special teams was good this past year.
I thought the discussion was last season's playoff game... you're going with ancient history. We ll know OB's offense sucks, but the defense has had major fails also, which you refuse to acknowledge which is the crux of the matter and why this is dragging out past forever
Texansballer74
The Marine
I didn't know people were attacking RAC in order to defend OB. Just pointing out the entire team sucked
We’ve been poor in the playoffs, no doubt about it. Do me a favor though, go back and read your post about the Chiefs playoff game. Brian Hoyer accounted for 5 turnovers. It was the single worst performance I can remember from a professional QB. You could have Vince Lombardi as your head coach, Bill Belichek at DC and Bill Walsh as your OC and there’s no chance you’re winning a game where your QB turns it over 5 times. You could have a perfect game plan on offense and you’re not winning a game where your QB the bed that badly.
Now if you want to blame BOB for Hoyer being here, I’m with you on that. However, the offensive woes in the Chiefs game fall squarely at the feet of Brian Hoyer. IIRC, we played the Chiefs in wk 1 the following season and beat them with Brock at QB. Amazing what happens when your QB isn’t the opposing team’s MVP
The Colts beat our ass in both phases of that game, both RAC and BOB should be ashamed of that performance. I will say this though, we had our full compliment of Defensive players on the field for that game, and the Colts shoved the ball down our throats
On offense Hopkins had a 3rd degree shoulder separation and a bum ankle. I found it laughable that the announcers were lauding Pierre Desir for “shutting Hopkins down” during the game. I know for fact Hopkins shoulder was so sore after the game he needed help taking off his jersey. Fuller was out with an ACL, so we were playing Smith, Coutee (who had missed a ton of time) and Webb at WR. Not exactly a plethora of offensive weapons to work with.
There’s no question BOB needs to do better, but to blame him for everything and ignore circumstances and situations isn’t fair. There’s enough legitimate stuff to gripe about without having to twist things around
They don't against top tier qb's.
The only season since RS left they finished 11-5. You and I have a different definition of the word trash.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Ok I'm done beating my head against a wall with you on this. You just keep coming back to your talking point of "but they didn't score any more points" well who the F cares. They let the team go 3 touchdowns in the hole including 2 in the first 10 minutes so they gave the colts all they needed to win. The lack of points Texans side is on BoB and the offense and the gaining of points Colts sides is on Crennel and the defense. You can twist all you want but the defense sucked and embarrassed themselves and the city just as much as the offense. Don't believe me, go watch and listen to Hilton before and after the game and then tell me the Colts felt it was a hard won victory and the defense scared them.
Regardless of which unit you assess blame to, 30-0 and 34-16 is what it is and neither game seemed as close as the score.
Agreed and the head coach should have been fired for it imo
One thing I've noticed is how bad the QBs look in the playoffs when OBrien is head coach or calling plays
-Watson vs colts in 2019
-osweiler vs pats in 2017
-hoyer vs chiefs in 2015
-brady vs jets in 2010
-brady vs Ravens in 2009
He puts a horrible offensive game plan out there and then calls extremely predictable stuff that is easily countered, and he doesn't know how to adjust
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
As should have been the DC.
Disagree. I would have kept Crennel as DC.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Of course you would have, because even when the defense sh!ts the bed its still O'Brien's fault. Though if the defense does good that's all Crennel succeeding in spite of O'Brien. Me I would have been fine if they fired all of them after either game. You win as a team and lose as a team, its you and those like you trying to do this separation of two different teams wearing the same uniform.
He definitely has issues, no doubt. My point in my other post was we don’t know what the game plan was against the Chiefs in 2015 because every time we had the ball Hoyer turned it over.
Brock was also part of the problem in the game against the Pats, he did play decently in game. I do remember a beautiful deep ball to an open Will Fuller that was dropped in the end zone, and I also remember seeing guys open down the field the BO didn’t see. If a guy is open down the field and the QB doesn’t see it, is that on the coach?
I feel like with our OL last year and how beat up our WRs were we brought a knife to a gun fight. When you can’t pass block, your WRs are rookies or beat to crap, what kind of game plan is supposed to work against a good team?
Exactly
Vyncent Smith should be better this yr because of the experience he got in the playoffs last yr
delete
I have never said the defense is O'Brien's fault or that we have two different teams.
We can all agree that O'Brien's offense sucks. You're going to have a hard time forming a consensus that the defense sucks.
If the offense can't block or beat anyone, then isn't that an issue of player development and evaluation? Not O'Brien's job?
Texansballer74
The Marine
That's because it's a very valid point in which you refuse to wrap your head around. Why? Because you have convinced yourself on the Colts supposedly taking their feet off of the Texans neck after a quarter and a half of football.
The Colts did take their foot off the gas. They basically stopped throwing against the sucky secondary. Mack still ran for 200 yds, yep the defense sucked and that was the side of the ball with the most talent. LOL
In my mind it’s talent acquisition or player development and BOB is certainly involved in that. This would be my chief complaint for our team.
Regarding schemes, schemes can certainly make a difference but at some point the players have to step up and execute, ie block the guy in front of you, catch good throws, see the open WRs, cover, tackle ect...
My second complaint about BOB is we’ve heard from various players/sources that the schemes on offense are very complex and it takes several years to learn. This doesn’t make sense to me. One of the things that makes Belichek special is the ability to utilize talent and adjust what they are doing based on personnel. My hope for BOB is that he learns this lesson soon.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yup NFL offenses never overcome a 21 point deficit early in the 2nd quarter so the team may as well just lay down and quit. LOL
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Very underrated point here. The offense hasn't really been able to enjoy that for the last 2 years & its been a very different story for them. Watson, Nuk & Fuller have only been healthy & played together for 11 total games over 2 seasons. In those 11 games, the offense has scored an avg of 31 pts a game. That's Obviously bolstered by the 1st 7 games together in 2017, but even if you take those 1st 7 out, its still an avg. of 25 ppg.
Watson, Nuk, Fuller....& now u add Keke? Its surprising considering the health of both Fuller & Coutee but yes they've all been on the field healthy for a few games (4) & its an avg of 24 ppg Obviously the chemistry with all 4 healthy & on the field is still developing but you get the point.
Even if you take the defensive TD's out of these games they are still averaging around 20-24 pts ppg...& that's with a bad o-line, an avg. to below avg run game & suspect playcalling & tough opposition. They faced 5 defenses ranking in the top 10 last year by any defensive metric you want to use & they beat every single 1 of them....at least once accounting for the multiple games against Indy & Jax. The tables will be largely turned this year where the defense will be facing powerhouse offenses & we will see what the defense is really about.
If the defense is as good as some of its name recognition & ranking says it is, that 20-24 ppg should be enough to keep you in most of these games if not outright win them. Beyond that, someone on either side of the ball would need to make a play that could swing the game in our favor.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Belichick's scheme is complicated as well. We've seen them bring in several talented guys in the offseason that wind up washing out in camp before the 1st game is even played...b/c they can't pick up the scheme. Having a guy under center that you you've been in lock step with for going on 20 years now can't hurt either.
I'd like to have seen what they could do if they have a lead on a top tier QB. But the offense has to score for that to happen, so I guess we'll never know.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
We saw a little of it in the Philly game. I will grant you Foles is no Brady, Brees or even Luck but he was a SB MVP so he's not a scrub either.
They scored one TD after the Texans offense fumbled it at the end of the 3rd, giving the eagles favorable field position.
O'Brien also inexplicably went for it on 4th and 9 in the 4th quarter in field goal range (the Texans were up 29-16 and ended up losing by 3). You either kick the fg or punt there.
The eagles were also something like 4-4 going for it on 4th down and converted a couple of 3rd and longs on the last drive. That's not really a defense of the defense but also showed there was some bad luck involved (as well as an imploding secondary)
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So the Texans were up by more than a touch down and then would score another field before it was all said and done but O’Brien was to blame for the Eagles coming back from 29-16 to win am I understanding that right?
Also the Eagles were 4-4 on 4ths and were converting 3rd and longs but that was just bad luck and had nothing to do with the fact the defense couldn’t stop them. Oh and also the fact the game came down to the defense needing to hold the Eagles but failing to do so that’s just bad luck to I guess.
Seriously your blind hatred for Bill O’Brien never fails to amaze me.
No, I said clearly I wasnt defending the secondary. O'Brien made a really bad decision on 4th and long and the offense turned it over late.
Also that the defense wasnt good, but there was an element of bad luck with the 4th down and 3rd and long conversions.
It is fun to analyze the game. As we know OBrien is generally bad on 4th downs, challenge flags and timeouts.
We saw what happened in Philly
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I hate this P.O.S... God do I hate this guy.
2019 is going to be a red wedding season.. hopefully we can clean house.
2019 is going to be a red wedding season.. hopefully we can clean house.
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cameronkrazie86
Rookie
Glad Bill was playing a valuable member of our receiving unit in the 2nd quarter of the first preseason game so he could get hurt. What a waste.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
what about those guys screaming that the 'stats dont capture it all" .. well just 3 days ago we received data that stated the TExans were fairly easy to plan for given their propensity to run certain plays at certain times. Last night they just validated that line of thought. AGAIN, yes I know its preseason, meaningless all that. Instead of doing the same things that everyone knows your're going to do, why not try something different? You will still have your same old tired plays in your back pocket, try something new and revolutionary - be a guy who others copy. Last night I didnt see ONE bunch formation, or advanced route package. Obviously personnel dependent, and didnt have full compliment of offensive players, but still a very basic and uninspiring offensive philosophy and nothing to offer hope coming off an embarassing playoff loss and more of the same last night. No ingenuity, nothing inventive, nothing new.
I can hear it now Pro Bill guys "what is wrong with you? what is your major malfunction boy its only the preseason"
Fast forward to game 1 same ol **** = "what the hell is wrong with you boy its only game 1 its gonna take a little while to mesh"
Fast Forward to game 4 1-3 record same ol **** = "what the hell is wrong with you boy, we have two rookies playing and they will need time to learn"
Fast Forward to game 8 3-5 record same ol **** = "what the hell is wrong with you boy, this year was going to be a rebuild year and nobody expected a winning team"
Fast Forward to game 16 Bill Obrien Special 8-8 same ol ****= "what the hell is wrong with you boy, it took an incredible coaching effort just to get back to .500, we should give Bill another extension because he's the GOAT"
and on and on it goes.
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