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Chronic: Texans show support for Carr after nightmare in Tennessee

Put him on the bench and it will wake him up that hes not invincible...he will give us a better chance against NYG now that hes fired up!
 
eriadoc said:
That's certainly the feeling I get as well. Certain posters here cling to their agendas like a drowning man to a life vest. That would apply to me as well, with my "fix the damn O-line" agenda. Don't care too much who's QB as long as our line thinks Vandebosch is part of our backfield and belongs there (name your pass rusher, it all fits).
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i would say a few just want to win and thus truly think that Carr is not the best option. That's fine with me.

But when I see all the non-football related comments (i.e. the "pretty boy" sarcastic remarks) and then pair it up with their comments about VY and how much better he is...then it's fairly easy to see that MOST of the Carr haters have a vested interest in seeing Carr fail. It gets their "guy" (VY in most cases) over the top as the "answer" that we should have had on draft day. It proves them right, in their mind, and they care more about "their guy" than they do about the team.

I don't want to see ANY member of our team fail. I root for the whole 53-man roster. I am really pee'od at Andre Johnson right now, but I can't find it within myself to say that he COMPLETELY stinks and should be cut and kicked to the curb. I root for him to get better at catching passes that are practically placed into his hands, and I think he should be benched for HIS lack of focus just as Carr was, but that doesn't get in the way of me desiring for him to stay on the team.

I root for the team, not for the player(s). And as long as David Carr is on our team, I'm not going to abandon him because it's suddenly the sexy thing to do around here.

If Kubiak and Co. do not come up with a very real gameplan to stop the Giants rush, it won't matter who is at QB for us. Period.
 
thunderkyss said:
Bullpucky.....

We had the same crap against Indy, Washington, Miami, & Dallas.... including tennessee, that's 5 of 7 games where David Carr Fumbled the ball, or threw Ints when there was no(none, zip, zero, zilch, nada) pressure on him. How many times was David sacked against Dallas?? One..... how many times was he hit?? maybe three.

did you watch any Dallas Games this year?? Bledsoe vs Romo?? Carr vs Sage?? it's the same thing. We gave up no sacks when Sage was in the game, to the same 4 man rush that had Carr coughing up footballs.

& false starts hurt...... I ain't gone lie. But none of them, not one of them stopped a drive..... One of the flase starts was on the drive that led to David's fumble that was returned for a touchdown.......

the other, was on the progression that Sage scored a touchdown.

go figure.

Some guys need excuses..... some guys make up for their guys mistakes..... it's called putting a team on his back.
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The Miami game and the Jax game were the two games where I feel that the entire offense and the coaching staff were on the same page. Everybody looked good, including David Carr....it was synergy at its best. And it helped that a defense showed up and drove a dagger thorugh the heart of those two teams when it counted. If a ball is in the hands of Simmons and he drops it, that's the same as David making a mistake IMO. It's a mistake. You dont' get a lot of opportunities as a dback to get a shot at INT'ing a pass...you gotta' make it count. We aren't doing that this year, and it's a lack of focus. It's Demeco making great plays all game long and then runnig right past the QB and allowing a big play...it doesn't define him for the rest of his career, but it was a lack of focus that allows a big swing in momentum: We could have momentum OUR way, but it went the other way. Same with David.

When you put on the goggles of objectivity, you can see that David is not solely responsible for this team's success or failure. He's one of the 53 men that are part of a team, his position is magnified because when he lets go of the ball (to pass, in my example, not to fumble) it's in OTHER people's hands to catch it and do something with it, but yet a blocker lets a guy slip by and pund him in the rib cage and it's ALSO his fault.

He has been pretty dadgum nice about how he displays his emotions after the dropped passes IMO, and then something happens to him on the next play or two and everybody screams for his head on a platter...go figure. I'm sure he's thought to himself "Hell, if somebody would catch a ball when it counts we'd be looking at a different set of circumstances here."

The other games you mention are not games that the o line was like a bunch of faultless angels with halos over their heads. There was NO running game to speak of...it's always nice as a QB to know that you'll be passing every down to get something going--Knowing that the defense also knows this, as well. The Colts pass but can switch to a run in a heartbeat and clice you up with it. We can't do that, but maybe that's changing now. Who knows for sure. We thought that in the preseason and look at what happened. For all we know, Lundy could get poor blocking in the next few games and it'll look like he is a failure "after all" in the same fashion that carr's being measured with.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
When you put on the goggles of objectivity, you can see that David is not solely responsible for this team's success or failure. He's one of the 53 men that are part of a team, his position is magnified because when he lets go of the ball (to pass, in my example, not to fumble)
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I've been asking people for the last two days why they think David sucks so bad.. he's had the exact same game today that he's been having all year. but everybody has been so happy with the progress David has been having.

So I asked...... What if we loose the Titans game??..... & we got exactly what I thought we'd get

Even the guys who thought David was great, are saying they had enough, when he did absolutely nothing different....

He actually played better in this game, than he has in all our other games this year, with the exception of the Miami game.

He's getting better, he should start the NYG game....... he is our future QB, no questions asked.

You can question whether it was the right thing to do to bench Carr during the Tennesse game. But you can't question benching him. He needed to be benched. 3 fumbles against Indy... 3 fumbles against Washington, 2 fumbles against Miami, 2 fumbles against Tennesse.....

that's ridiculous. If AJ fumbled the ball & the defense recovered 50% of them, you can bet your ass he'll be sitting on the bench, only he wouldn't be back in the game.

Remember when Lundy fumbled the ball?? that was 5 games ago..... Kubiak inactivated the little booger & taught him a lesson. It will be quite some time before he fumbles again, I can gaurantee you that. he fumbled once, David fumbled three times in that same game. Lundy was in Indy Territory when he fumbled.... he picked up a first down, then fumbled. But not Dave.... one of them, David gave them the ball in the redzone..... that's inside the 20 yard line. the other time, i think was on the 26. Our 26 yard line.

I'd have benched Carr in the Dallas game. After he threw the Int to Henry, where he was staring Aj on the sideline......when there was no rush, he could have stayed in that pocket for days.... Get Rosenfells in that game.... then bring Carr back for Jax, and this one.

I do agree that Kubiak had to do it before Game 8.... the first 8 weeks is about looking respectable. I think we look respectable now. From now on out, it's about winning football games, and David had better get his **** together.


As David goes........ the team goes.

not Aj dropping balls on third down. Not RonDayne breaking our Left Tackles, Not Dunta's sorry excuse for Coverage, and not our disappearing safeties.

David.
 
Pacino pulled Steamin Willie Beamen after he led them to the playoffs. After the first half he put him back in and it had a tremendous effect on his leadership skills.

Kubiak has watched some film me thinks
 
trutexan02 said:
The players who are willing to forgive once or maybe twice will lose faithand the fans will all stroke out! Whether you are a Carr fan or hater it will be ugly for the Texans franchise!
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b -- WHYISITALWAYSNEXTYEAR

Fans here in Houston have already begun to show the colors that lead to Adams move HIS team to greater pastures elsewhere. MOST have stroked out already. (to yuse your words) And most are on here talking about what should have been done or who should be cut. We should all go back to our desks and work our nine to five jobs and cash ours $1500 bi-weekly checks. Leave the coaching to the people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

On a serious note it's is very east to sit in our lazy boys and second guess Kubes. But after 11 years in the armed service and countless subordinates here is what I've learned.. The next guy always thinks he could have done it better, but when he gets the chance he usually understands the decision of his predecessor were vey close to right on. Kube s is making all teh decisions that he is in the best position to make. No matter how much beter we think we can do. Chances are strongly in favor of Kubes. WE KNOW NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

You only make 1500 bi weekly? lol I am sorry couldnt pass it up, you set yourself up,no offense please. I do agree with you and in my opinion you are right on the money. The coach has to have time to shake things up.
 
Superstar said:
Carr has the ability to brown nose his way to keep his job. Just remeber he is friends with Mcnair. Most QB's hardly have that relationship with an owner like Carr does.
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Thats why it is going to be so SWEEEEEEET when he gets to hand the Super Bowl trophy over to Mr.McNair, when they win it together.

Brown Nose, now thats funny, I think it takes one low person to say something like that, questioning David Carrs mentality, is that the new thing going around.
 
Hulk75 said:
Thats why it is going to be so SWEEEEEEET when he gets to hand the Super Bowl trophy over to Mr.McNair, when they win it together.

Brown Nose, now thats funny, I think it takes one low person to say something like that, questioning David Carrs mentality, is that the new thing going around.
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...speaking of nose, I sure hope you don't hold your breath waiting to see Carr hand over that trophy!!:yikes: :brickwall :redtowel:
 
Carr just keeps gettin bashed here and on the field...lol. I think what needs to be remembered here is the system that Kubes has brought to Houston. Its all brand frickin new for the offense and they are all learning it. We might as well crown everyone on the offense as Rookies until they get this under their belt. After 7 games...its starting to come together, albeit, slowly.

There were some comparisons made of Carr to Elway and Young. I'll throw one more in the mix---Favre. If you look back to Elway's and Favre's careers in the early stages, they too were very disliked by the fans. Personally, as a former Bronco Fan...I hated Elway and though he was the worst move Denver could have ever made. Favre, according to my Dad, had no business on the field. Obviously, we were both wrong...

The point is to let it ride and see what happens. Carr is a tough SOB, and IF he can work through the errors of the last game and put them behind him, and the O-Line does a better job of blocking, I am confident we will start seeing impressive things from these guys.

One last thing to point out...although the record show 2-5....thats still better than last year....
 
ridn4_8 said:
One last thing to point out...although the record show 2-5....thats still better than last year....
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Actually, it only has the potential to be a better record at this point. We have to win at least 1 more game at some point before we can really say it's a better record.

But... I think this is a better team than last year's team. Hopefully we'll be able to put some pieces together soon and get a few more W's.
 
ridn4_8 said:
If you look back to Elway's and Favre's careers in the early stages, they too were very disliked by the fans.
...
The point is to let it ride and see what happens.
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Define "early stages" - was it 4 1/2 years for them? Did they show the same rate of progress?

How long do we let it ride - two more games? The rest of the season? 4 more years?

I was happy to give Carr a chance under Kubiak, but I don't want to see the same limited improvement for 5 more years. That isn't good enough. The time for excuses is over for me.
 
Their early stage, I'll grant you, were mostly their first 2 to 3 years. But keep in mind that these guys came in under established systems for their individual team and had to work into those respective systems. Yes, Carr has given us, to say the least, some mediocre seasons. At the same time, we cant stick it all on the QB. But to go from a defensive minded coach and his playbook to an offensive minded coach and his playbook is like a 180 degree turn-around. To say that Carr is not learning the system fast enough may be true...but is the rest of the offense learning any faster??
 
ridn4_8 said:
Their early stage, I'll grant you, were mostly their first 2 to 3 years. But keep in mind that these guys came in under established systems for their individual team and had to work into those respective systems. Yes, Carr has given us, to say the least, some mediocre seasons. At the same time, we cant stick it all on the QB. But to go from a defensive minded coach and his playbook to an offensive minded coach and his playbook is like a 180 degree turn-around. To say that Carr is not learning the system fast enough may be true...but is the rest of the offense learning any faster??
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Good point about the established systems.

The question about learning fast enough isn't necessarily about the new system though. If he makes the same fundamental mistakes year after year - misreads defenses (coverages, blitzes, etc.), doesn't take care of the ball, locks in on one receiver, throws to the wrong receiver, etc. then it isn't about the system. It is about how much he's learned in 4.5 years.
 
ridn4_8 said:
Carr just keeps gettin bashed here and on the field...lol.
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Truth is, that Carr has been getting a free pass here over the last six weeks... most of us, even the Carr haters have been giving him & Kubiak props for the improvements we've seen in David & the Offense.
 
CoachJim said:
I can think of 8 million reasons Sage will not be our starter this season. Can you imagine how stupid thats gonna make Kubes look to Big Daddy Bob? Besides, ya gotta love the fight in David ...
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I really wish people would get over the whole $8 million thing.

Most of the guys that own teams really don't care that much about $8 million. That's like 20-30 bucks to a regular person.

Yeah, if David isn't the guy, we shouldn't have paid him that money. We don't need the cap hit. But for most owners, assuming that they want to win, they're not going to let a little thing like $10-15 million get in their way.
 
Runner said:
Good point about the established systems.

The question about learning fast enough isn't necessarily about the new system though. If he makes the same fundamental mistakes year after year - misreads defenses (coverages, blitzes, etc.), doesn't take care of the ball, locks in on one receiver, throws to the wrong receiver, etc. then it isn't about the system. It is about how much he's learned in 4.5 years.
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I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.
 
ridn4_8 said:
I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.
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I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying.

But I also believe Peyton Manning would be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady would be Tom Brady, McNabb would be McNabb, & Vince would be Vince, no matter where they went. Some things you can't teach, and people with strong personalities tend to define their surroundings more than their surroundings define them.

TimCouch, CharlieBatch, JoeyHarrinton, EricCrouch, & RyanLeaf all would have had completely different careers had they gone to different teams.
 
Carr had problems learning/executing Palmer's playbook, and they finally gave up trying to teach it to him, finally trying to simplify everything as much as they could for David.

IMO, the problem is not in giving Carr the time to learn Kubiak's offense--rather, the problem is Carr being able to 'grasp' what little he's been 'exposed' to and effectively executing it on the field. JMO, but this is why Sage's results are better on the field than Carrs. Sage understands what they have been taught of the playbook so far and David--like with Palmer's playbook--does not....some people get 'things' and some people don't...

The bottom line is that what we've gotten so far from Carr the past 4+ years may be the best its going to get--great physical tools, weak comprehension/execution. Kubiak's offense requires effective/timely decision making and--simply put-this appears to be a Carr weakness....not trying to 'knock' David here...:twocents:
 
Goldeagle said:
I believe Salaam apologized to david and McKenney actually dogged his fellow O lineman saying THEY need to play better, not david.


But I see David getting killed against the Giants, Sage will be the starter and I will see if Sage is the man to take us to the promised land.
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If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said
 
Koolbrz said:
If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said
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That's what they said in Dallas.
 
tsip said:
Carr had problems learning/executing Palmer's playbook, and they finally gave up trying to teach it to him, finally trying to simplify everything as much as they could for David.

IMO, the problem is not in giving Carr the time to learn Kubiak's offense--rather, the problem is Carr being able to 'grasp' what little he's been 'exposed' to and effectively executing it on the field. JMO, but this is why Sage's results are better on the field than Carrs. Sage understands what they have been taught of the playbook so far and David--like with Palmer's playbook--does not....some people get 'things' and some people don't...

The bottom line is that what we've gotten so far from Carr the past 4+ years may be the best its going to get--great physical tools, weak comprehension/execution. Kubiak's offense requires effective/timely decision making and--simply put-this appears to be a Carr weakness....not trying to 'knock' David here...:twocents:
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I cant disagree with what you're sayin...lol. Maybe it will work and maybe it wont. Theres no way any of us will know..unless you are a fortune teller..then send me yer number...I got some horses I wanna bet...lol.
 
thunderkyss said:
Were is this one bad game crap coming from??

He did the same thing against Indy, Washinton, Miami & Dallas. Including this game, that is five out of 7 games that David Turned the ball over.... Dallas is the only game that it was 2 Ints(one definitely not his fault), but the others were multiple fumble games, where he lost at least one that went for a score.


I believe David is the future, and I believe David should start against NYG, but we need to be honest about the situation, and pray like heck, that Kubiak is as well.

I seriously doubt CoachK is thinking David had one bad half.
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Maybe all David needs is a little time to reflect on what happened. (Oh, and a football season's supply of Super Glue for gameday wouldn't hurt, either)
 
Koolbrz said:
If David is getting killed, Sage will suffer the same fate!! If P. Manning was our QB he to would suffer the same fate...doesn't matter who is back there. If the O-line stinks it up again I dont care if we have J. Montana in his prime, he will get killed also....enough said
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Against the Titans, Carr got sacked 3 times--Sage, ZERO.
 
tsip said:
Against the Titans, Carr got sacked 3 times--Sage, ZERO.
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We are talking about the Giants not the Titans dude...get with the program! You can not even compare the 2 defensive lines. Giants are way better than the Titans.
 
ridn4_8 said:
I agree on the learning thing. But wouldn't you say that "good learning" from a good teacher is just as critical as the student?? I would say that Carr has not had much in the way of a "good teacher". Maybe I am being a little easy on this subject, but at the same time, I personally would like to see this system work out, regardles of who is the chosen QB. Currently, its Carr, so I figure, give him a chance and the system to work, before I start calling for his head...
Any improvement over last year would certainly be an improvement on the scope of things for the team.
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I agree - David's got some really bad habits that should have been coached out of him a long time ago but I think we've been seeing steady improvements in aspects of his game all season, specifically because he finally has a coach who is looking at improving his faults rather than just waiting for him to magically turn into Peyton Manning. Other aspects still suck, but you can't expect everything to come together all at once and for me it's starting to look like he's finally working with the right people. He may not be the ultimate answer to our QB question but I'm certain that Sage Rosenfels is not the answer. He's a great backup, but let's not elevate him to a role he can't fill.
 
thunderkyss said:
I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying.

But I also believe Peyton Manning would be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady would be Tom Brady, McNabb would be McNabb, & Vince would be Vince, no matter where they went. Some things you can't teach, and people with strong personalities tend to define their surroundings more than their surroundings define them.
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Yes - you're right. And those are the guys that can slot right into the NFL, straight out of college. But you can also take someone with a lot of talent, cut off the rough edges they brought out of college and help them to grow into a genuine professional quarterback. That's what should have happened with DC, but it never did. He should never have been slotted in at starter straight out of the draft. He should never have been held up as the golden boy by his coaches - they should have taken him under their tutelage, turned him into an NFL QB and made him earn his place. Nobody ever did that, but that seems to be what Kubiak is finally doing. And if you listen to what Kubes is saying about how he takes instruction, DC sounds relieved to me. He sounds like a hardworking kid who got thrown into a new job and told 'Get on with it' and now the new boss is finally sitting him down and teaching him how to work the register. It's four years late, but at least it's finally happening.
 
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