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Banks on Schaub
- Thread starter Texans Horror
- Start date
hollywood_texan
All Pro
It was a long time ago. That's when I was just starting to post and I think you thought I was a troll.
It was on the thread regarding the Moulds trade.
It's no big deal, not trying to call you out.
This situation seems very similar to that thread. I was the lone voice and people were calling me crazy.
As to blaming the student instead of the teacher, Carr was paid the $8 million bonuse after Kubiak took the job. Why did McNair wait? So, the new head coach could approve it and agree.
If Carr was paid the bonus before Kubiak arrived, my opinion would be Kubiak's hands were tied because of a stupid move by the owner. However, that isn't the case. Paying Carr the money was essentially a draft pick of some sort by Kubiak and he is on the hook in my opinion.
NO FREEBES~!
hollywood texan said:
"The ledge" comment was just a figure of speech and my weak attempt at adding levity to the discussion.
As far as "Texans rose glasses", I agree, you don't wear any glasses. You seem to prefer blinders.
Did you see this part?
Blame the owner for this nonsense. It's his franchise and he obviouly pre-conditioned employment with the team. If any of the other HC candidates had the job, I guess you'd just be blaming them, too?
But blaming Kubiak for accepting a job with criteria dictated by the owner of the team just seems futile and negative. Trust me, prospective head coaches are in no position to demand changes that are against the owner's wishes. That's just Common Sense 101.
This has been run into the ground but what the heck...
Why did McNair wait? So the new head coach could rubber stamp the decision that had already been made by Casserly and McNair, and to give the (necessary) appearance that the incoming head coach had something to do with a key personnel decision.
How would it have looked if the lame duck GM and a mostly hands off owner announced the extension two weeks before the new head coach is hired and a few months before said GM is fired? Pretty stupid if you ask me.
Kubiak endorsed Carr heavily in the early months but he soon saw the train wreck with which he had to contend. If giving Carr the bonus was entirely Kubiak's decision, McNair wouldn't have given him near the leeway to cut the strings so quickly (because Kubiak said he could turn him into a winner, etc).
McNair let Kubiak and Smith do it after one season because McNair was a major part of the decision to extend him in the first place. Gary tried. McNair accepted the effort, admitted the mistake, and owned up to his part of the decision by clearing the way for his new head coach and GM to get someone they wanted.
Casserly and McNair would never have said to themselves "let's wait to see what our new head coach says before we do anything on Carr." Casserly wanted Carr to succeed here every way imaginable because what was left of his reputation - here at least - was tied almost completely to his first draft pick. Casserly had McNair's ear and had him convinced that Kubiak could save ocho viejo. That's exactly what McNair wanted to hear for many reasons.
What it boils down to is that people will believe what they want to believe. It's there in spades for me but others will see it differently.
Why did McNair wait? So the new head coach could rubber stamp the decision that had already been made by Casserly and McNair, and to give the (necessary) appearance that the incoming head coach had something to do with a key personnel decision.
How would it have looked if the lame duck GM and a mostly hands off owner announced the extension two weeks before the new head coach is hired and a few months before said GM is fired? Pretty stupid if you ask me.
Kubiak endorsed Carr heavily in the early months but he soon saw the train wreck with which he had to contend. If giving Carr the bonus was entirely Kubiak's decision, McNair wouldn't have given him near the leeway to cut the strings so quickly (because Kubiak said he could turn him into a winner, etc).
McNair let Kubiak and Smith do it after one season because McNair was a major part of the decision to extend him in the first place. Gary tried. McNair accepted the effort, admitted the mistake, and owned up to his part of the decision by clearing the way for his new head coach and GM to get someone they wanted.
Casserly and McNair would never have said to themselves "let's wait to see what our new head coach says before we do anything on Carr." Casserly wanted Carr to succeed here every way imaginable because what was left of his reputation - here at least - was tied almost completely to his first draft pick. Casserly had McNair's ear and had him convinced that Kubiak could save ocho viejo. That's exactly what McNair wanted to hear for many reasons.
What it boils down to is that people will believe what they want to believe. It's there in spades for me but others will see it differently.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I just put the a quote as to how the whole thing went down earlier and DB reitterated it for me. The owner basically put it to the candidates and asked them if Carr could take them to a SB and they ALL said yes. You can spin that anyway you want, but to me that is an owner with his mind made up and an agenda set. You don't out that question to people unless you have a direction. If that wasn't the case he would have just as easily asked, "what direction do we need to go at the QB position." This just continues to make the point I made 8 pages ago...you would have ragged on any coach because they ALL would have been in the same place.
Kubiak didn't exactly have to hold a gun to McNair's head to get him to retain Carr's services, now did he? McNair knows he was part & parcel to the "keep Carr" move. He wasn't ready to toss out his "Face of the Franchise".
One thing that was said somewhere in this thread: We may NEVER know all the "whys and wherefores" on who decided what and why?
And another thing is also true, I'm afraid; these "freebies" you refer to aren't yours or mine to hand out.
And that's probably for the best. We fans, as a group, tend to be somewhat emotional at times.
...just at times.
He officially resigned the first week of May. But coming off 2-14, there was months of speculation leading up to the official announcement - all the way back to Dec-Jan. I'm sure the announcement wasn't a 'surprise' to McNair.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I made a very unpopular post last year about the Carr/Kubiak "He's our guy" sitiutation and I predicted that Carr or Kubiak would be gone this offseason. Ofcourse everyone blasted me and said "you are crazy, they will never do that" etc..In the end I was correct, but I think I have changed my oppinion on Carr since then and take a more unbiased view to what Kubiak did. I think like everyone else Kubiak was forced to accept Carr as the Texans QB as part of accepting the head coach job. I think Kubiak saw early on that Carr's poise and mechanics were not going to get the job done regardless of talent around him or how good the o-line was. I think I agree with that now. He then made a decision to limit the damage , dumb down the offense , and take minimal risks with replacing Carr as the final goal. I think maybe given enough time he could have helped Carr with his mechanics and technique, but there was little chance of correcting his poise given the state of the team and O-line. So overall I think he made the right move. Schaub has good poise and mechanics so we will see what Kubiak can do in the next couple years. He will prove his worth as a head coach one way or the other .
Wolfiegrrl
Fan of NFC Seahawks & AFC Texans
Man, I would have thought that was total Seahawk country!
oh, and I ain't skeerd neether...
It was fun when the Hawks went to the Superbowl! I was at the NFC Championship game. I can't wait for the Texans to make their trip down Superbowl Lane.
I have every faith that they can do it!
Wolfiegrrl
Fan of NFC Seahawks & AFC Texans
I think the biggest proof of Kubiak's decision making skills came in the last 10 games of the season. He forced the team to run the ball when we didn't have a running game. At the time I was freaked out, but every time I saw those little 5 yard passes by Carr I became more convinced there was something wrong in Carr's thought process. By the time the season was over, you could see that Carr, Kubiak, McNair and the fan base were done. The best thing that could have happened was let Carr go. Just walk away from the past and take the lesson of the situation into the future. Why do you think Schaub's contact is so back loaded and cap friendly? Just in case....
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I thought it was funny, just wanted to clarify.
As far as "Texans rose glasses", I agree, you don't wear any glasses. You seem to prefer blinders.
If I didn't wear blinders, then I would be blinded by reality like you are and not see a thing.
Package deal is a package deal. You have to take the good with the bad. The decision was made on Kubiak's watch. Therefore he is responsible as it relates to a head coach with essentially amounted to no GM because Casserly was a lame duck.
We all make decisions in life and the packages that are associated with it.
It's like buying a house, but you don't want a pool. However, the house you really like has a pool. So, if you still buy the house with the pool, even though you really don't want the pool, you are still responsible for pool.
Very true. Very true.
Obviously 'reality' is a subjective perspective.
So basically you are saying that you'd blame the head coach no matter who got the job?
No, it's not like buying a house. It's like accepting a job with prerequisites that you may or may not agree with, but take the job anyway because it's a job you've wanted fora long time. But the owner of the company has all but spelled out the prerequisites were conditions of the job and accepted responsibility when said prerequisites were not successful.
It's all good, man. This season will be our best one so far, and all of this will just be mental exercises in the long run. Just watch and cheer accordingly.
When McNair brought Dan Reeves in to look over Casserlys shoulder. That message was clear and loud IMO.
BTW, how wierd was that ? Can't recall an arrangement like that before where an owner brings a third-party in to in effect perform an operational audit in the manner that McNair used Reeves ?
hollywood_texan
All Pro
As I put it, reality is tainted by our perceptions. The key is trying to understand someone's perceptions so you can comprehend his reality.
If it happens on your watch, yep.
If you can't handle it, then don't take the job. It's like taking a job, accepting the pay, and then a month later you are upset you aren't paid enough. You agreed to the deal and the responsibilities associated with it.
YEP!
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Malloy
Hall of Fame
And when they conducted the team interviews of head coaching candidates, Reeves asked the football questions.
And it was about that time when McNair revealed how people in his organization would pull the "well, that's the way we do it in the NFL, see" BS on him. That worked for a year or two or three... I knew Casserly was toast at that point. That was in the Dec.- Jan timeframe.
McNair still listened to some of what CC had to say -- they both obviously agreed on Carr through the whole ordeal.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Well said.
I think there were also some other factors involved too.
The 2005 tape on Carr was completely unusable because of the Palmer/mostly Pendry garbage offense. That the only times that Carr looked okay was when he was calling his own plays.
If you look to the 2004 season, prior to the Denver game, Carr showed some promise. See e.g.: link to what his stats would have been if his second half of 2004 was like his first half
So, with the blessing of Dan Reeves who said that Carr wasn't the problem, Kubiak signed off on fixing Carr. From just looking at tape like Kubiak did, you can't tell how Carr is in the locker room, or his ability to take coaching. That's what Casserly should have known, but didn't want to fess up to.
You keep Carr, and this means you can use a draft pick on another position. It also means that you can work with a quarterback starting immediately, and not waiting until the draft or until you can get whatever random QB you can get from free agency. ("Logical, see, you can't make you decisions based on what the fans want, see.")
The assumption by Casserly in February was that keeping Carr meant you got Bush. Then it turned out that Bush probably really didn't want to be the guy that wasn't VY (he kept saying how excited he would be being the first pick, and rarely said anything nice about Houston or the Texans though he would say nice things about the Jets). And all sorts of questions hit the fan about Bush right before the draft. (you can make fun of that, but look at how Vick used to be gold and now isn't). And his agent was a donkey. And Bush wasn't LT, and wasn't a north-south runner, nor shaped like a running back.
Kubiak didn't know how unfixable Carr was at that time, and I think the franchise really underestimated how little good will the fans had left with Carr. That he was going to live with a cloud over his head for being the non-Vince, and that this ugly cloud was going to live over camp, and that the fans would boo Carr for every mistake every time. (I had Eagle fans email me asking why Texans fans were booing Carr in that first game. heh.)
This is old and tired but I think it is true. They kept Carr because they thought they were getting Bush. (McClain says that Casserly wanted to announce the Bush pick really really early).
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I know I have run this into the ground.
But if Kubiak couldn't review tape of Carr and make a decision, how can I be comfortable Kubiak reviewing tape on Schaub and making the right decision? I am sure Kubiak had to extrapolate from that film to how it applies to his system. It's similar, but not the same. Further, how was Carr any different in 2006 than he was in 2004 or 2005. Not much.
Kubiak is supposed to be a highly trained professional and all I am hearing are excuses.
Not to mention half the people on this message board knew Carr wasn't going to work out anyway. So, should Kubiak consult some people on this message board? Or maybe someone on this message board be the head coach or GM?
Nevertheless, Kubiak still gets a free pass. Maybe you guys are Aggie fans? That would explain so much! Seems like typical behavior of Aggies. We kind of act like them with people running around with 19-10 when it was 5 years ago.
This is a classic example of the elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.
Wolf
100% Texan
To add to the Casserly thing.. we weren't going to let him go before the draft... to me that would be suicide for the teams plans if Casserly took a job at another NFL team.. Casserly knew how the Texans had a rating on certain players they were targeting in the upcoming draft. Casserly would have had all the inside information on Texans.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I'm the last person on earth to be accused of being an Aggie fan.
Nobody knows whether Schaub will be good or not. Kubiak looked at film, and talked to different people about his skills and stuff, but you never know. I think he decided that Schaub was the best option in 2007 compared to trying to fix Carr or draft someone in 2007 or getting a different free agent.
Kubiak thought he could fix ocho viejo, and there are still people who believe OV can be fixed. I give Kubiak credit for ending that experience.
So basically, all I can tell you is life and football is a crap shoot. Nobody knows if Schaub is the deal, but at least with what I've seen so far, I think Kubiak has the team on the right track. I mean, what do you want us to do? Do you want us to tar and feather Kubiak for not demanding a quarterback get chucked that he had never worked with?
If Kubiak doesn't do a good job, eventually he will get canned. That's what happens.
Fixing a done broke team is harder than adding a few pieces to a team that is already established. Schaub would probably have an easier time going to a more established team, but hopefully he has the talent and the mind to help fix this team.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
No, I don't wanna tar and feather Kubiak.
But, as you move through life and you figure things out that you made mistakes and things you could improve on, you better be able to own up to them yourself. Even if people give you a built-in excuse.
For Kubiak, it's the QB position while the head coach of the Texans. I think he has done a marginal job at best thus far. However, that could change in the blink of an eye with Schaub showing us hopefuls that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe not in 2007, but good times are coming soon.
If QB performance improves in the 'blink of an eye' I would venture a guess that it has more to do with the QB (and the RB in this instance) than his coach.
Kubiak would probably say he's done a marginal job. This just in: NFL head coaches are under a lot of scrutiny and job security is fleeting.
I guess I really don't understand/care what the argument is, but I can see it's run it's course when a the counter point deteriorates into playing the 'must be an Aggie' card. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not an Aggie.
Kubiak would probably say he's done a marginal job. This just in: NFL head coaches are under a lot of scrutiny and job security is fleeting.
I guess I really don't understand/care what the argument is, but I can see it's run it's course when a the counter point deteriorates into playing the 'must be an Aggie' card. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not an Aggie.
rickyb
Scarlet is hot.
Kubiak has worked with exactly one starting Texans QB not named Matthew Schaub, and his name was David Carr.
David. Carr. So tell me again, who was marginal?
Rhetorical. Please do not answer. Ah, geez, I'm going to hate myself for being so weak as to get sucked into a David Carr thread.
CAN WE PLEASE PUT A BOW ON ALL THINGS CARR?
the wonger need food
All Pro
It's real simple. If Kubiak doesn't insist that he can fix Carr he doesn't get the job. There isn't one of us here that hasn't overstated his or her skillset to land a better (higher paying) job.
Marginal job thus far? Look at what the man had to work with and he still got 4 more wins than the previous year. Were you expecting a playoff team after 6 months on the job? Even Bill Walsh couldn't pull that one off.
We gave Dum, Casserole and Stinko 4 years to get things ironed out (well, you guys did... not me so much). The least we can give these guys is 2. If we don't see significant progress across the board in 2007 the Wonger of old will return and I won't be able to delete my PM hatemail fast enough.... I almost kinda miss those days....
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
I think this is like 
Steph you have posted what you have said on more than one occassion, I do not think it can be explained any better or plainer. Great break down. I have to admit I was pretty clueless about the goings on until I read a lot of the info by you, Vinny and a few others. But I did understand looking at game films and making choices based on those.
But I do recall the comments AJ (will try and find them) made about the early part of how Capers and the offense coaches would say how the passing game was to be done regarding reads. Without that info, there is no way to know about all the issues a players has and what it would take to correct or fix certain issues. To me AJ's comments were the biggest WTF I have ever heard regarding a players development.
Steph you have posted what you have said on more than one occassion, I do not think it can be explained any better or plainer. Great break down. I have to admit I was pretty clueless about the goings on until I read a lot of the info by you, Vinny and a few others. But I did understand looking at game films and making choices based on those.
But I do recall the comments AJ (will try and find them) made about the early part of how Capers and the offense coaches would say how the passing game was to be done regarding reads. Without that info, there is no way to know about all the issues a players has and what it would take to correct or fix certain issues. To me AJ's comments were the biggest WTF I have ever heard regarding a players development.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I think this is like
Steph you have posted what you have said on more than one occassion, I do not think it can be explained any better or plainer. Great break down. I have to admit I was pretty clueless about the goings on until I read a lot of the info by you, Vinny and a few others. But I did understand looking at game films and making choices based on those.
But I do recall the comments AJ (will try and find them) made about the early part of how Capers and the offense coaches would say how the passing game was to be done regarding reads. Without that info, there is no way to know about all the issues a players has and what it would take to correct or fix certain issues. To me AJ's comments were the biggest WTF I have ever heard regarding a players development.
Here's the comments you are looking for:
link
I still find it funny that the Chronicle really didn't highlight that quote because it is on the list of ultimate Texans WTF moments. Along up there with Richard Justice article talking with McNair about how the Phillip Buchanon scouting happened prior to pulling the trigger on that trade.
I think McNair/Casserly/Reeves/Kubiak had the thought that ocho viejo had crap QB coaching and crap schemes to deal with in years 2002-2005. There's a lot of support for that point of view. The problem comes in saying, okay then, if you get good coaching, you can fix that. And then trying to fix that with the cloud of the 2006 draft hanging over your head.
OV detractors say that he was a nicklehead who could never be coached up and isn't NFL material. OV semi-supporters say he once had promise but got too messed up to be fixed. OV supporters still say that he should have had Bush in 2006, and is still fixable if given the right situation, oline, coaching, planets in alignment whatever. (Certainly, if Bush had even a pretty good year as a Texan, fans would have been better tempered about having to watch more of th OV experiment).
I say I don't know. All athletes have their good and bad points. I will say that there are few athletes who are so talented that they can excel no matter what their situation, coaching, teammates, scheme etc. Once decisions have been made, you never can know what the alternative history would have been.
Personally, I have to say the best thing about the QB change is when bad crap happens, we don't have to read the exact same retreaded stuff.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Great posts, TC & aj. 
Our history is what it is. We've had a noob owner with a billion dollar company and absolutely no experience in a very competitive business. He's made mistakes, but taken steps to correct them and hopefully not repeat again. Blaming the people he hires is fine if you can't see a bigger picture, but the fact of the matter is that the buck stops at the top.
Our history is what it is. We've had a noob owner with a billion dollar company and absolutely no experience in a very competitive business. He's made mistakes, but taken steps to correct them and hopefully not repeat again. Blaming the people he hires is fine if you can't see a bigger picture, but the fact of the matter is that the buck stops at the top.
S
sbalderrama
Guest
I often wonder how much say Kubiak really had in the Carr decision. It seems like "everyone" knows what went on, even though "everyone" has differring opinions from "Kubiak totally ok'd carr" to "Kubiak just told McNair what he wanted to hear to get the job". Not sure we'll ever know the real truth, but it is true that in many cases the head coach doesn't deal with personnel decisions as much as the GM and owner. A brand new rookie Head Coach is not going to be given as much power as say Bill Parcells.
You're ignoring a vital piece of information. With Carr, all Kubiak had was film. Before he signed Schaub, he met him to see what kind of person he was. He consulted with people he trusted to find out what type of leader he was (or wasn't). He gathered much more information before pulling the trigger on Schaub than was available to him when making the decison to keep Carr. Texans Chick explained that in her posts. Yet you KEEP ignoring that in your critique.
Just what IS your agenda? Do you see Kubiak as the reason Carr is gone and are just looking for an excuse to vent. Are you mad that Vince/Reggie/Matt/Jay isn't here? I can come up with no other reason for your "Kubiak sucks" viewpoint.
Because its not remotely logical to expect a truly bad 2-14 team (that's NEVER had a winning season) to turn around in one year. Its also completely illogical to fire the coach before he has a chance to install his system and find "his guys".
And that Aggie fan statement is the worse thing I've seen you post. I'll chalk it up to exasperation. I know you can come up with better logic than that.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
hæhæhæ, funny. Especially because Dum actually means dumb or stupid in danish
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Could it be changing the way he did things earlier is admitting some mistake?
I am not ignoring anything, I am merely providing a different perspective.
You guys seem to be advocating some group hug or something. I know I am streching things here, but that is what you guys are doing with my comments, see below.
I have no agenda, if someone screws something up, including myself, I call it like I see it.
My point isn't to advocate VY or some other QB.
Regardless of the draft last year, it was mistake to keep Carr! That mistake just carried over into the draft decision making process.
You reading WAY TOO MUCH into my comments. I never said that Kubiak should be fired. I never said the Texans should have had a winning season last year.
Look, Kubiak made some big mistakes in the way he handled the Carr situation. Probably on reflection, he would probably not do a lot things he did with Carr, like carrying the water for McNair and keeping Carr so easily.
I was born and raised in Austin, Texas. I have family ties to the Texas Longhorn football program. Point is, I have heard a lot jokes about Aggies over the years, my comments seemed appropriate in that manner.
Again, you reading way too much into my comments.
I think we can all agree that the $8 million roster bonuse for Carr was a mistake last year.
You guys appear to give a Kubiak a free pass on that decision. I don't give him a free pass and hold him responsbile.
One of the best ways to get fired or perform marginal in your job, is to allow an overbearing manager cram down decisions that makes your job difficult.
I think we can all agree the handling of Carr from the roster bonus forward has made things more difficult for Kubiak. He shares reponsbility in that issue.
R
real
Guest
Responsible for what ? Carr sucking, or for giving Carr the bonus ? Neither are his fault...
I don't understand the logic...
Every coach that was interviewed said they can fix David...SO in essence we would have gotten someone in here with the mindset that they were going to fix David regardless of who was hired...Would you have rather gotten a coach that would have stuck with David after last year or a head coach that was bold enough to move on ? Unless you think David is a stud and Kubiak just did a poor coaching job, I don't understand your argument...
Any coach we would have gotten would have kept David...What aren't you understanding about that ?
Yes, he misjudged something....You called him out on that...I guess you want props?
Kudos maybe? 
We're all humans and we all make mistakes...What real live human being really expected Kubiak or any other human walking this earth to be perfect ? Maybe you just had unrealistic expectations....
He is not the QB coach, he is the head coach...
Since he's come aboard he has improved the team as a whole...The guys seem to have a better mindset, we have more depth, and we have some good looking young players...Not to mention he has hired, what seems to be, a very competent staff...Quit your bishin'....
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Responsible for what ? Carr sucking, or for giving Carr the bonus ? Neither are his fault...
I don't understand the logic...
Every coach that was interviewed said they can fix David...SO in essence we would have gotten someone in here with the mindset that they were going to fix David regardless of who was hired...
Now are you saying that Kubiak should have been able to fix him if he was a QB "guru" ? Or that he isn't a QB "guru" because he said he could fix David, and he didn't ?
Yes, he misjudged something....You called him out on that...I guess you want props?
We're all humans and we all make mistakes...Who really expects Kubiak or any other human walking this earth to be perfect ? Maybe you just had unrealistic expectations....
He is not the QB coach, he is the head coach...
Since he's come aboard he has improved the team as a whole...The guys seem to have a better mindset, we have more depth, and we have some good looking young players...Not to mention he has hired, what seems to be, a very competent staff...Quit your bishin'....
IMHO, Kubiak didn't have a choice in the matter. Carr was going to be here no matter who the coach was.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Kubiak had a choice in accepting the job.
Using sales/poker skills would have been very helpful in changing McNair's mind on Carr in early 2006.
Therefore, Kubiak is responsible in my opinion.
R
real
Guest
Either Kubiak was going to be here regardless or Carr was going to be here regardless...
It's either one of the two, and you can't have both...
Why?
Because if Another Coach would have gotten hired, since all of them siad they could fix Carr, that meant Carr was going to be here regardless...follow me?
But if Kubiak was the only coach who said that Carr was damaged goods, and was still hired, that means he was going to be here regardless of whether he yayed, or nayed Dave...So in essence that question wouldn't have mattered and Kubiak was going to be the coach regardless of what his decision on David was.....
I find it very hard to believe that Kubiak was going to be here regardless....So with the help of Mathmatics that just leaves David as the common denominator...
R
real
Guest
Wha ?
So would you rather have had a coach who believed they could fix Carr, but couldn't, that wasn't Kubiak
??? This has gotta just be an Aggie thing...All the candidates said they could fix him....do you get that ??
Unless you think that Carr would have been salvaged by another coach I don't get what you're arguing...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Wha ?
So would you rather have had a coach who believed they could fix Carr, but couldn't that wasn't Kubiak
All the candidates said they could fix him....do you get that ??
Unless you think that Carr would have been salvaged by another coach I don't get what you're arguing...
I never said that I would have rather have had a QB coach that believed he could salvage Carr as the head coach. If you really think about what I am saying, I am advocating something very opposite of that.
I am talking about Kubiak specifically and his errors with Carr, which includes his responsibility. If he really believed Carr was not worth fixing, he should have taken care of that sooner, rather than later.
You guys are reading way too much into my comments.
Kubiak made big mistakes in the handling the Carr situation, therefore he is responsible and hopefully learns from it and doesn't make the same mistakes again.
hadaad
Rookie
Wha ?
So would you rather have had a coach who believed they could fix Carr, but couldn't, that wasn't Kubiak
All the candidates said they could fix him....do you get that ??
Unless you think that Carr would have been salvaged by another coach I don't get what you're arguing...
What he's saying is that Carr is a mark against Kubiak no matter how you look at it. I agree with Hollywood on this one, though I don't think I go as far as he does.
Regardless of what the situation was, Kubiak did NOT have to coach Carr last year. To that end, Kubiak gets a black mark for coaching a season with a quarterback he did not fix. If Kubiak is an amazing quarterback guru, he should have either realized Carr was bust or fixed Carr. Neither of these things happened so the QB Guru title is tainted somewhat.
I don't think he's saying he would rather we have a different coach. I don't think he's saying that Schaub is going to fall on his face. What I wrote above is what I think Hollywood is saying and I agree with it.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I don't know if I would call it free pass, as much as I would call it chalking it up to a first year head coach, with a lame duck GM in place - making a mistake...
The real test, is will Kubes have learned from that in the future and of course Rick Smith will be more involved with those type of decisions.
The real test, is will Kubes have learned from that in the future and of course Rick Smith will be more involved with those type of decisions.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
You basically reiterated my point.
Like I said, I think Carr would've been here no matter who was hired to be the coach.
McNair wanted to give Carr another chance under different tutelage. It didn't work out like he'd planned. Kubiak made it a point by taking the ball out of Carr's hands, in turn proving to McNair that Carr was a basket case.
R
real
Guest
Whadaya mean ? "fixed it earlier" ?
How was he going to fix it earlier ? And what do you mean by earlier ?
Before he was hired? As soon as he was hired? During the season ?
Why don't you understand that EVERY candidate interviewed said they could fix David ? Not just Kubiak...
Sure he said he could, and assuming he really thought he could, we can say he made a mistake...Ok...everyone makes mistakes...but look at his overall body of work...
Honestly I think Kubiak wasn't overly impressed with David, but liked the tangibles that he could see...you know...his measurables....I'm pretty sure Kubiak knew there was a disticnt possibility that David couldn't cut it, but he told the owner he could...He maybe even really thought he could have...or atleast felt strongly about it....
But I think the whole "David is our QB" line we were fed after every dissapointing performance was just Kubiak's way of not giving David the benefit of hiding on the bench...Even after Sage came in and noticeably out played David, he kept marching him back onto the field...It was like Kubiak was saying to everyone, this is David, I'm a good coach, we have a decent system, he should be able to somewhat produce...
Well he didn't...
I honestly believe Kubes made up his mind on David after the first Titans game...The Raider game would have been the point that He would have been benched had Sage not been hurt...
He completely took away David's throwing privelages though....
R
real
Guest
lol...
If you guys say so...
I still think Kubiak is just as good as working with QB's...I really don't see the his title being tainted...
but...oooooook
R
real
Guest
You basically reiterated my point.
Like I said, I think Carr would've been here no matter who was hired to be the coach.
McNair wanted to give Carr another chance under different tutelage. It didn't work out like he'd planned. Kubiak made it a point by taking the ball out of Carr's hands, in turn proving to McNair that Carr was a basket case.
Sorry...
That was just a long way of agreeing with you...