O'Brien wasn't with the Patriots when this dude was there. They probably didn't know each other until now.
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2019 Texans free agency
- Thread starter powda
- Start date
O'Brien wasn't with the Patriots when this dude was there. They probably didn't know each other until now.
Mangler
Toro de España
Oh, I understand it alright. I played ball (football & baseball) little league through high school, but the pros are different. Money is the motive, not loyalty to the uniform. I’m sure they’re like brothers, but they can be influenced to leave them hanging and jump to the rival team for the right price.
Too simplistic
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There's a lot that goes on other than leaving. Splitting carries, splitting targets, full effort of away from play blocks, not being a primadonna, communicating with/teaching teammates, etc.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Part of a future draft or player trade similar to us giving another team a second round to take Os and then get Watson.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Getting Badger type or better stats from a priority need position is definitely worth it. Trick is to have another player ready to replace him. This is draft to do just that. If we could replace starting corner at that price and get solid results expected from this man cvg fast player I'd consider it every year and for more than just corner.
I don't know that it's a "bandaid" philosophy. It's just what it is. Overpaying is not a good idea & no way to build a champion. Locking yourself in to an over paying situation is even worse.
We paid HB $7M last year. We (BO'b) & he (HB) figured $7M was a good compromise of his value. He was ok last year. Starting quality, sure. One of the top 10 safeties in the league? Not so much.
Of course the Chiefs obviously thought he did (& they've been a good judge of talent lately so I'm not saying they're wrong). They're paying him $14M/yr over the next three years.
Is it possible the Texans were that far off on his valuation? 100% off? We paid him $7M he got $14M. Maybe, but I doubt it.
Maybe they're being cheap. Or maybe they're being prudent. I mean what if a player like Kalil Mack were to become available & we're up against the cap & can't even think about bringing him in?
The Texans didn't want a bandaid. They wanted HB to sign longterm, but maybe at $10M/yr. Obviously HB was right & someone was willing to pay him more. A good team too, a contender.
The Texans found someone they believe can fill the position for three years, $22M ($7M/yr).
So signing HB for one year worked out for HB, worked out for Texans.
So it is with Roby. Maybe he'll move on next season to a $20M/yr deal. Maybe he'll stay with us.
Hopefully we'll have a 2nd year player ready to take his place. Or we'll find someone who can play & will play for 3 years $10M each.
Toro Bravo
Rookie
I would much rather us hire the Patriots OL coach, Dante Scarnecchia.
He would have to be available for that to happen... don't believe he is/was
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Or you sign HB to more than 1 year from the beginning and that's a done deal for 2 more years. Instead, we're back in the bargain bin, looking for a safety again, doing more 1 year deals so that we'll be doing it again next year. Oh, and next year JJo is gone, so now you've got to replace all of this year's 1 year deals and find his replacement. The holes just keep getting bigger if you don't start coming up with more solid solutions.
And no, I'm not saying go spend all of your cap on the Trent Browns of the world or whoever. But you can sign guys for longer deals that don't handcuff you capwise.
I get being up against the cap and maybe not being able to bring someone in because of it, but they're not up against it. Not even close.
They want to build through the draft, that's fine, but just look at drafts from any team. Realistically only 2-3 players end up being players. And that's a good draft. There's way too many holes on this team to go that route exclusively, for the most part. You have to use free agency. At this rate it'll be 6-7 more years trying to load this team up via the draft to fill all these holes. And that's only if you have a decent hit rate every year.
Maybe it works out, we will see, but I don't like their approach at all. Of course that's skewed heavily on the fact that I don't trust OBs talent evalution, or using good talent properly even if Gaine is a wizard.
I think it was obvious they didn't see eye to eye with HB about what he was worth. That he actually showed up in deep steel blue shows no other team agreed with HB at that time. iotw HB wasn't signing a long term deal last season.
We can say the Texans should have done this, or that, but if HB ain't having it, it ain't happening.
Bradley Robey turned down three year deals from two teams before signing our one year deal. He didn't want to be locked in to a deal he felt undervalued.
If we wanted him, looks like this was the only way to get it done.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Agreed, but I do think HB said or hinted that the Texans could have re-signed him for a cheaper deal than what he ended up getting if they would have negotiated in season.
To me, that was a mistake if they wanted to keep him.
Astros and Rockets seem to do these short term deals all the time. If they can sign Roby for good value next year, then great. If not then need to do their work and find some talent to replace him (assuming he plays well).
It also gives a chance for a rookie to develop (if they draft one).
It also gives a chance for a rookie to develop (if they draft one).
It seems like he has usually joined teams when facing an off the field crisis. A little different this time. I think it has to do with the new aligned philosophy of finding character guys?
Gaine mentioned they want to also look at personality and psyhpsycholog traits though I don't know what data they have that makes them think they can get an edge here. I guess this new hire is part of the effort.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ch...yer-important-Texans-Brian-Gaine-12851287.php
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Which would seem to belie fan mythology that the Texans have always done so.
They wanted to keep him, but not on his terms
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
It’s a negotiation. Both sides have terms.
HB was willing to negotiate for a multi year deal without any other suitors being involved.
Texans don’t negotiate in season.
Water under the bridge at this point, but worth noting since they appear to like these one year prove it deals.
If a guy is having a good season and they want to keep him, to me, it makes little sense to not negotiate in season and instead let them hit the open market.
JMO.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Actually what he said on Twitter during the Chiefs/Pats championship game was ""Getting money is cool, but I want a ring."
https://247sports.com/nfl/houston-t...eu-hints-at-departure-from-Houston-128100292/
As far as negotiating mid season on the surface that does seem like a no brainer but if you stop and think about it that's a trickier issue than it appears. Lets take last season at around the game 8 point, ok so you had a horrible start but now you are on a win streak unlike any seen in franchise history. Do you really want to distract your players wit thoughts of negotiation? Also who's to say your players want to negotiate now, maybe they see the win streak and think they have a better market when F/A comes around. Or what if they feel you have low balled them, throw a hissy fit and start phoning it in, its happened before.
I don't understand why some on here are so ready to take the players at their word when they say something like this. Its easy to say "I would have stayed if they had offered" once you have already signed with another team and you're trying to make it look like you weren't just after a payday. Lets say the Texans did offer him something and for the sake of argument lets say that Mathieu was willing to listen, its not just him its his agent as well. Can you be sure his agent wouldn't, or didn't, say "Don't sit down at the table yet, you're red hot and if you sign an extension now you could miss a big check after the season."
To me Mathieu let the world know what he was all about with the things he was saying after he signed with KC. He left and showed his ass on the way out.
Our season ended first week of January. There's plenty of time to negotiate before the legal tampering period.
Still, I'm not crying over losing HB. we need better than him anyway. Not that Gipson is better. But I'm not crying over losing HB.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Don’t care about HB either.
Was just commenting on the Texans not agreeing on his worth since that was the first guy they did the one year prove it thing with and appeared to want him back at a price they thought was reasonable.
Not worried about the player himself as much as the negotiating style of the team.
If they wanted him back, it shouldn’t take until after the end of the season to decide that. You give yourself a better chance to come to agreeable terms for a player you want long term if you try negotiate before other suitors get involved.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Well first, what who said? I'm assuming you meant Mathieu though if that something he said its a weird way to say it. Could you please provide a link to that quote?
Second I never said you I said some on here.
He put it on his twitter right after he signed with KC
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
badboy
Hall of Fame
TK great post! I think Texans are being very smart with their cap and it wasn't that long go all were complaining about cap hell. As always if a player works out - - he was supposed to; if he doesn't Texans were stupid. I get that but what I don't get is fans dumping on player or team for things beyond control of either. Examples Kevin Johnson or Aaron Colvin both were injured & some if not many blasted team for that. Many forgot that KJohnson had a very good rookie year and Colvin was considered a highly ranked FA. We moved on from the first saving tons of cap and we can save with Colvin after this season if we need to. If he is not physically or mentally ready to be a starter we can absorb his '19 cap hit and use another player. My thought is to draft DBs to replace Joseph, Colvin and Roby despite how well they play replacing them with young, cheap starters with a year of NFL under their belts. We can also use lower draft rounds and UDFAs to add depth for safeties due to depth at corner.
Yep, there's a downside to that methodology though. If it happens two years running (with Roby after HB) then the Texans need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
One always wonders though...was the de-facto stance regarding contracts in-season an RS thing, or a McNair one?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
From my understanding, the Texans did offer a contract to HB before the tampering period. HB declined and thought he could get more in FA. Texans didn’t agree he was worth more.
I’m glad they didn’t increase their offer to try to get him to sign before the tampering period. TBH, I didn’t think he was all that great as a Texan. He was solid, good leader, but nothing more.
It's not a methodology, Roby turned down three year deals from two other teams. He's betting on himself. He doesn't want to be paid based off last season. Almost as if he's blaming the coaches & thinks RAC can help him change the dialogue.
It's not just the Texans who didn't agree with Roby.
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While all that may be true, is that what the Texans have become...a one-year jump off point to get to a "real" job? It's great having guys who can play, but chemistry starts taking a hit at some point.
John Dorsey, the guy who put the Chiefs together is no longer their GM as he recently moved on to Cleveland.
The new GM in KC, whoever that is, shouldn't automatically be considered a player evaluator in Dorseys league.
Texans going into draft with too many needs. OL, secondary, rb, wr.... Not sure about Duke Johnson durability but he is a talent. The issue is he seems to be alot like LM, but that may not be the worst thing. I still say only significant move to be made would be if we could get VALUE for Clowney. My feeling is if we were offerred a 1st and a 3rd the Texans would do it. My thoughts are even though he is a Pro Bowler we are not getting anything even close to that. Too bad Cleveland has no 1st round pick left.
Will be interesting to see if JD is traded what he gets in trade value. I just hope the Texans are open to hearing offers.
Will be interesting to see if JD is traded what he gets in trade value. I just hope the Texans are open to hearing offers.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Every team goes into the draft with needs. WR is not a need. Texans have 3 studs at the position which is more than most teams. A late round/udfa flyer would suffice to add competition to the 4th WR/ST contributor slot.
RB likewise isn’t a “need” in the classical sense. Just a want to add another weapon for DW4. Miller/Foreman are solid options but a want to upgrade a dimension of the offense isn’t a bad thing to do. 3rd or 5th here unless bpa in round 2.
OL/secondary are needs. Glaring needs. And might as well count as 4 needs!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Agreed.
Totally disagree. RB is a need. Miller while serviceable is miscast & in the last year of his contract. Foreman is nothing until proven otherwise.
So you're saying we shouldn't have signed him at all? Just make sure we get the right guy in the draft?
& yeah, being a jumping point is better than being a retirement home, one last paycheck. Which is what we were.
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ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Lol WR not a need. Lol RB not a need. Foreman has done what??? Which Wr outside Hopkins has played a full season?
Lol lol lol, did you sacrifice a bucket a bucket of chicken for health at the hamstring position.
I'll take blue production over foreman. Who did find a job elsewhere.
This teams is so full of holes and everyone on a 1 yr deal.
Forgive me I'm tipsy.
Belongs in the drumk thread
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Remember how the offense looked after Fuller went down last yr.
You will see a very similar thing if Miller goes down.
These are definitely needs, not as much as OL/CB but definitely needs.
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Houston Texans- Where the one yr deal resides.
Gaine appears to want to draft starters and fill in holes with guys on 1 yr deals.
I'm not sure I agree with being a franchise that is a place where players come to revive their careers and then move on, rather than the Texans being a destination place for top FA's. Of course the Texans dont want to be players for top FA's anyways, so there is that. Those guys usually demand top $$$$.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wasn't just Fuller, it was Fuller & Coutee. So long as only one goes down they aren't bad off. Trading for Duke Johnson would be a great safety net there as well.
I really want Gaine to bring in Duke. He's a perfect fit for this offense. Of course he will cost more than a 3rd/5th rd draft pick, so I doubt this happens.
Hopefully Vyncent Smith improves. I would rather Gaine add a vet WR depth piece on the cheap like Justin Hunter to be WR4 and ST's guy. Doubt this happens.
Why would he cost more if he isn't wanted in Cle. any longer?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maybe more than a rookie but not bad. A trading team will get him for 3 years at $2.3, $4.1 & $5.15.
Not gonna happen, but it's not too late to dump Miller either. Draft a rookie in the top 4 picks & bring in Duke. Dumping Miller would save $6.2 mil and more than pay for both.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I would like to see Duke Johnson as a Texans as well, but I would hesitate giving anything more than a 5th rounder. I know, that's most likely not enough.
My big hesitation is would BOB use him like we'd all envision and drool over? I mean, we all thought Lamar Miller would be used alot differently than he's actually being used here.
My big hesitation is would BOB use him like we'd all envision and drool over? I mean, we all thought Lamar Miller would be used alot differently than he's actually being used here.
No, I'm saying that one year contracts where guys jump ship immediately isn't where the Texans (with their aging star players) need to be right now.
Of the top 10 teams with the most cap space, I'm not sure anyone other than the "we're going the UDFA route" Dolphins has done less than the Texans have. When you compound that with their "biggest move" being a one-year contract it looks even worse.
I never count on a ready-to-go draft player unless we're picking in the Top-15. I expect everyone else to be role players or take 2-3 years development. Sure, we get pleasant surprises like Ryans being there at the top of the 2nd, but we can't count on that sort of luck.
Available $$$$ isn't really the issue.
I'm not on board with cutting the Texans best RB when they already have so much cap space available.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I doubt Cleveland deals Duke until Hunt is on his way back unless they get an offer they can’t refuse. And I doubt they get that from the Texans. I believe Gaine covets draft picks. I believe so much so that he hopes he gets a comp pick for Kalil in 2020, hence the reason the Texans are preferring one year deals for players that were cut compared to free agents or trading picks for vets.
I’m preferring to believe in a master long plan strategy over the hopeless and hapless situation some fans are running with. Of course I could be wrong in that ownership sucks and Gaine/OB are complete dolts. If that’s the case, I’ll move on to other hobbies to occupy those 3+ hours of empty space.
I’m preferring to believe in a master long plan strategy over the hopeless and hapless situation some fans are running with. Of course I could be wrong in that ownership sucks and Gaine/OB are complete dolts. If that’s the case, I’ll move on to other hobbies to occupy those 3+ hours of empty space.
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Pretty generic 3rd/4th WR Seth Roberts cut
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2019/04/raiders-release-wr-seth-roberts
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2019/04/raiders-release-wr-seth-roberts