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2019 Texans free agency

banned1976 said:
Who is this David Carr you speak of? I honestly have no memory of David Carr playing QB for the Texans. During his entire time in Houston I lived in Minnesota. And that was before NFL Redzone and Game Pass. Sure, I saw “highlights” but nothing stands out. Except his hair.
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He was a qb with talent but not the will to be great. He was sold to us over a beast like peppers because surely all franchises need a qb to start. We failed to give him any chance to succeed minus the likes of Corey Bradford. Remember that. Collectively, he and casserly were to new franchises what ice bergs we're to the titanic.
 
Kt was right. This is revisionist history. The only point is...the more we protect Watson, the more chance he has to be successful.

Screw carr. Screw casserly. And screw this offseason, because so far, this front office has been asleep at the wheel.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Raiders OT Donald Penn was released this afternoon.
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At least Penn thinks he still has something left in the tank.

Only one season after restructuring his contract, the 13-year veteran's outright release allows Oakland to save $5.475 million against the cap this upcoming year. Penn, who first signed with the team as a free agent in 2014, was a constant at left tackle before accepting a positional-change to right tackle in 2018. Set to turn 36 at the end of April, Penn issued a statement following his release claiming he "has a lot of years LefT" as an NFL starter. Arguably one of the worst tackles in the league prior to being placed on the Reserve/Injured List, Penn will undoubtedly catch on as depth elsewhere soon.
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One of the worst tackles in the league? Welcome to Houston, Mr. Penn.
 
powda said:
Lots of room here. Are we arguing the GOAT vs one of the bigger qb busts in years?

Probably not a fair comparison (though I'm the one who brought it up.)

Just any - all quarterbacks - need some semblance of protection to be competent.

That 1st year for carr I worked night shift and I'd wake up to catch the games on Sunday. It was maybe his second game but it was against the chargers. They beat his azz like no qb I'd ever seen before. It was truly a stomping.

He took that beating for years. No qb I ever saw could've been successful after 4 years of that.
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You did bring it up. My point was the GOAT wasn't always "good." I used to argue he wasn't anything special. But he had gutzpa, gnads, & a desire to be great.

Years one & two I thought the same of David Carr. Halfway through year three I saw he wasn't doing the line any favors, i.e. part of the problem.

Yeah, his career may have turned out differently had we invested everything we had in an offensive line. Maybe. But that's the NFL. Same can be said about a lot of busts we don't make excuses for.

Capers could have been a Super Bowl winning Texans coach if we'd have started in 2003 & drafted the QB from a real California university.
 
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Lucky said:
At least Penn thinks he still has something left in the tank.


One of the worst tackles in the league? Welcome to Houston, Mr. Penn.
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Earl34 said:
Is that opinion based on his play at RT or LT? I thought he was Pro Bowl LT who had an injury and played the last year at RT.
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I wouldn't touch Donald Penn. The foot injury that took him out in 2017 was a Lisfranc fracture. Last year when he tried to come back he was greeted with a concussion. Then in week 4, he sustained a severe groin injury and again was placed on IR. He tried to come back in December and was never able to make it back on the field.
 
justmy2cents said:
thunderkiss, you know that the pass protection weaknesses are very often found in the ZBS teams, creating problems in the red zone .... but some of the college - spread offenses seem to be finding more success in tighter quarters .... and .... were you by any chance a lineman ? Your handle seems to lend itself to that possibility.
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Not a lineman, just built like one.
 
powda said:
This is revisionist history. The only point is...the more we protect Watson, the more chance he has to be successful.
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I'll agree to that.

But I'm not going to put blinders on & say it's all about the OL (not to imply that's what you're doing).

1st & foremost I put the onus on DeShuan Watson. He's got to want it & whatever they put in front of him he's got to figure it out & make it work.

Then I put it on the coach. If your guy is not a rhythm passer, if he's not a drop back passer... don't expect him to be. Yes, a QB has got to win from the pocket. But you got to by time. Mix in what he can do with what he needs to do. More of what he wants against better teams. More of what he needs to be against weaker teams. As time goes by, even it out. As he gets better add more & more of what he needs to be.

You know how teams will focus on making a guy like Watson stay in the pocket? Well, we should be helping him get out. Especially if we can't protect the pocket.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'll agree to that.

But I'm not going to put blinders on & say it's all about the OL (not to imply that's what you're doing).

1st & foremost I put the onus on DeShuan Watson. He's got to want it & whatever they put in front of him he's got to figure it out & make it work.

Then I put it on the coach. If your guy is not a rhythm passer, if he's not a drop back passer... don't expect him to be. Yes, a QB has got to win from the pocket. But you got to by time. Mix in what he can do with what he needs to do. More of what he wants against better teams. More of what he needs to be against weaker teams. As time goes by, even it out. As he gets better add more & more of what he needs to be.

You know how teams will focus on making a guy like Watson stay in the pocket? Well, we should be helping him get out. Especially if we can't protect the pocket.
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Oh .... you mean kind of like McVey has done with the Rams .... surely that would never work here .... with this regime !!
 
thunderkyss said:
I'll agree to that.

But I'm not going to put blinders on & say it's all about the OL (not to imply that's what you're doing).

1st & foremost I put the onus on DeShuan Watson. He's got to want it & whatever they put in front of him he's got to figure it out & make it work.

Then I put it on the coach. If your guy is not a rhythm passer, if he's not a drop back passer... don't expect him to be. Yes, a QB has got to win from the pocket. But you got to by time. Mix in what he can do with what he needs to do. More of what he wants against better teams. More of what he needs to be against weaker teams. As time goes by, even it out. As he gets better add more & more of what he needs to be.

You know how teams will focus on making a guy like Watson stay in the pocket? Well, we should be helping him get out. Especially if we can't protect the pocket.
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Well said. Move the pocket, change up the snap count and create confusion and force reaction with pre snap movement.
 
powda said:
I agree with a lot of your sentiment. It has however been widely reported that Carr was no film junkie. Last to arrive, first to leave. That has always sat wrong with the fan base.
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Carr watching film would've been like watching a old Batman sitcom rerun.......POW!.....BAM!......BOOM!, etc. Should've just added those captions and called it a day. Carr gave up when the FO gave up on putting an OL in front of him. Between the coaches and FO, who's to blame for being so ducking blind? I do blame Carr as well for his work habits but damn, at some point you have to asking yourself....hey guys, how much skin do I need to leave onthe field before you prioritize an OL?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Raiders OT Donald Penn was released this afternoon.
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I dunno wonder if Penn, a bonafide LT, could have a couple years left in the tank near the end of his career like another blind-side protector did, one Andrew Whitworth now with the Rams after a lengthy career with the Bengals and about the same age as Penn ?
If he did, hell say just a single year, that would buy GM Gaine some valuable time to continue his search for our long-term franchise LT who will almost certainly be found only in the Draft.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
hey guys, how much skin do I need to leave onthe field before you prioritize an OL?
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Who was Chester Pitts? Fred Weary, Seth Wand?

Who were Andre Johnson, Jabar Gafney, & Bennie Jopru?

Not to mention the FA signings during that time.

None of it worked, I'll give you that. At the same time if we're saying the FO got him killed in the first three years, what did you want them to do?

Draft a LT in the first round of the 2002 draft? Well, then they wouldn't have drafted David Carr.

Trade their two 2nds yo move back into the first? Take Marc Columbo instead of Gafney & Pitts.

How about drafting Mike Pearson or LeCharles Bentley at the top of the 2nd?

2003, should we have "prioritized OL & taken Jordan Gross instead of Andre Johnson? Trade down & get Gross & George Foster?

Bruce Nelson instead of Bennie Joppru? Really?

Is there anyone we could have drafted in 2003 instead of Dunta Robinson that would have given David Carr a chance to be a better QB?
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno wonder if Penn, a bonafide LT, could have a couple years left in the tank near the end of his career like another blind-side protector did, one Andrew Whitworth now with the Rams after a lengthy career with the Bengals and about the same age as Penn ?
If he did, hell say just a single year, that would buy GM Gaine some valuable time to continue his search for our long-term franchise LT who will almost certainly be found only in the Draft.
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Will he sign with the Texans cheaper than any other franchise?
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno wonder if Penn, a bonafide LT, could have a couple years left in the tank near the end of his career like another blind-side protector did, one Andrew Whitworth now with the Rams after a lengthy career with the Bengals and about the same age as Penn ?
If he did, hell say just a single year, that would buy GM Gaine some valuable time to continue his search for our long-term franchise LT who will almost certainly be found only in the Draft.
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I would still draft a LT prospect as high as possible to learn from him.
I look at Penn as a bridge guy as well as mentor but offer a two year deal gradually giving the young buck more and more snaps which also gives the old guy a breather and extend his career that extra year.
 
thunderkyss said:
Who was Chester Pitts? Fred Weary, Seth Wand?

Who were Andre Johnson, Jabar Gafney, & Bennie Jopru?

Not to mention the FA signings during that time.

None of it worked, I'll give you that. At the same time if we're saying the FO got him killed in the first three years, what did you want them to do?

Draft a LT in the first round of the 2002 draft? Well, then they wouldn't have drafted David Carr.

Trade their two 2nds yo move back into the first? Take Marc Columbo instead of Gafney & Pitts.

How about drafting Mike Pearson or LeCharles Bentley at the top of the 2nd?

2003, should we have "prioritized OL & taken Jordan Gross instead of Andre Johnson? Trade down & get Gross & George Foster?

Bruce Nelson instead of Bennie Joppru? Really?

Is there anyone we could have drafted in 2003 instead of Dunta Robinson that would have given David Carr a chance to be a better QB?
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The same thing they should do this yr if the draft falls the same way you're describing, (I dont know who was in what draft.) Draft your QB and trade back into the 1st rd so you can get your LT to protect him. I mean Gaffney and Hill/Weary (2nd/3rds) could've gotten you your LT.

Just like this yr, if you like Dillard/Williams and they fall to say 13 then use the extra 2nd to move up and get your 10 LT starter. Dont get cute, just spend the damn draft capital to protect your franchise QB properly.

It's not brain surgery, it's about how important is it to protect your franchise QB. This is where the Texans org, going on 3 GM's and counting has failed. Funny how when Gibbs was brought in the 1st pick while he was here was a 10 yr starter at LT. Coincidence? I think not.
 
Texansphan said:
I would still draft a LT prospect as high as possible to learn from him.
I look at Penn as a bridge guy as well as mentor but offer a two year deal gradually giving the young buck more and more snaps which also gives the old guy a breather and extend his career that extra year.
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This is exactly what they should do, but I bet they dont.
 
Texansphan said:
I would still draft a LT prospect as high as possible to learn from him.
I look at Penn as a bridge guy as well as mentor but offer a two year deal gradually giving the young buck more and more snaps which also gives the old guy a breather and extend his career that extra year.
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Yea exactly man, like Ephram Salaam was for us when Duane Brown arrived in Houston.
 
steelbtexan said:
The same thing they should do this yr if the draft falls the same way you're describing, (I dont know who was in what draft.) Draft your QB and trade back into the 1st rd so you can get your LT to protect him. I mean Gaffney and Hill/Weary (2nd/3rds) could've gotten you your LT.
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I gave you the names. You'd have given up Gafney, Hill, & Weary for Marc Columbo who didn't do too well in Detroit & Settled at RT with Dallas.

So you'd have started Columbo at LT (again, failed in Deteoit) & had Pitts at RT (also couldn't hold down LT).

& David Carr would be the franchise QB we wanted him to be. I'm not seeing it. Not following the logic. If there was someone there who was a successful LT I'd be with you. But there was no one but Columbo drafted before Pitts we had a chance to get.

There was basically no LTs in our range in 2003, or 2004 but the names i mentioned.
 
thunderkyss said:
Who was Chester Pitts? Fred Weary, Seth Wand?

Who were Andre Johnson, Jabar Gafney, & Bennie Jopru?

Not to mention the FA signings during that time.

None of it worked, I'll give you that. At the same time if we're saying the FO got him killed in the first three years, what did you want them to do?

Draft a LT in the first round of the 2002 draft? Well, then they wouldn't have drafted David Carr.

Trade their two 2nds yo move back into the first? Take Marc Columbo instead of Gafney & Pitts.

How about drafting Mike Pearson or LeCharles Bentley at the top of the 2nd?

2003, should we have "prioritized OL & taken Jordan Gross instead of Andre Johnson? Trade down & get Gross & George Foster?

Bruce Nelson instead of Bennie Joppru? Really?

Is there anyone we could have drafted in 2003 instead of Dunta Robinson that would have given David Carr a chance to be a better QB?
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The Texans drafted a billboard model to be the face of the franchise . The obvious pick was a DE from North Carolina but they wanted Carr . Then they kept Carr after the whole team quit on him because , IMO , he and his family were tight with Bob McNair and his marketing company . He should have been in the fun , fair , positive football league and not the NFL .
 
Texansphan said:
They have high hopes for Davenport at LT, but he needs more than just a coach coach - he needs someone to truly mentor.
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Wish I were as confident in them.

I honestly didn't see anything special in him. Can he be avg until we find that special someone?I hope so. There's got to be something between All-pro & turnstile.

Gots to be.
 
thunderkyss said:
I gave you the names. You'd have given up Gafney, Hill, & Weary for Marc Columbo who didn't do too well in Detroit & Settled at RT with Dallas.

So you'd have started Columbo at LT (again, failed in Deteoit) & had Pitts at RT (also couldn't hold down LT).

& David Carr would be the franchise QB we wanted him to be. I'm not seeing it. Not following the logic. If there was someone there who was a successful LT I'd be with you. But there was no one but Columbo drafted before Pitts we had a chance to get.

There was basically no LTs in our range in 2003, or 2004 but the names i mentioned.
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How do you feel the strategy of moving up in the draft this yr?

BTW, there are other ways to fill the LT position, such as trades.

Look at Trent Brown traded to the Pats as an example.
 
steelbtexan said:
How do you feel the strategy of moving up in the draft this yr?
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I'll address this elsewhere. For now I'd like to continue the "we ruined David Carr" revision.

There was always "something else" we could have done & I'm just trying to figure out what that was.

With 20/20 hindsight I don't see a better draft as Chester Pitts was probably the best LT prospect we could have drafted between 2002 & 2004. The other linemen we drafted were as successful as anyone we could have drafted from 2002 to 2004.

It's easy to say, "we should have prioritized OL." In those drafts but then you look & there were no successful OL drafted those years. Definitely none worth passing on Andre Johnson.

& no, I didn't start this argument but I understand wanting to get past it.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I looked at Walter Jones , Joe Thomas , Tyron Smith , and Jason Peters combines and this is what they have in common in the workouts . Around a 5.0 flat 40 or better and a 30" vertical . Davenport had a 5.45 40 and a 27" vert .
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Makes sense to me. If we're going to draft a LT, he needs to run a 5 flat 40 & a 30" vert, otherwise we're replacing chopped liver with tofu.

How many tackles in this draft with a 5 flat 40 & 30" vert?
 
thunderkyss said:
Makes sense to me. If we're going to draft a LT, he needs to run a 5 flat 40 & a 30" vert, otherwise we're replacing chopped liver with tofu.

How many tackles in this draft with a 5 flat 40 & 30" vert?
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http://www.draftcountdown.com/2019/ol-2019-nfl-scouting-combine-results/

Andre Dillard Washington St. 6-5 315 4.96 / 29.0

Tytus Howard Alabama St. 6-5 322 5.05 / 29.5

Kaleb McGary Washington 6-7 1/8 317 5.05 / 33.5

Trey Pipkins Sioux Falls (SD) 6-6 1/8 309 5.12 / 33.5


Some guys who are guard prospects hit it and some didn't run and jump .
 
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Porky said:
I don't see much relevance in a LT's 40 time. How many times are they running full speed for 40 yards? That's a wasted stat.

What I want to see is short shuttle, 3 cone drill, overall foot quickness when watching him on film and in drills, arm length, etc.
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Except in the way I was using it , was a trend .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I looked at Walter Jones , Joe Thomas , Tyron Smith , and Jason Peters combines and this is what they have in common in the workouts . Around a 5.0 flat 40 or better and a 30" vertical . Davenport had a 5.45 40 and a 27" vert .
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Simply put, he's not a good enough athlete to play LT and not strong enough to play RT. Hopefully he gets stronger and can be a RT or swing OT.
 
I'm kinda curious about what the Texans are up to. I'm ok with what they've done on the defensive side of the ball, including letting HB go to the Chiefs. I also wonder if the Oz debacle has caused paralysis by analysis concerning the highest regarded FAs and that's why the Texans absolutely refuse to take a chance on the top OL FAs.
The Texans have some decent draft capital and it's going to be interesting to see how Gaine uses it. The FA signings of other teams have surely wrecked every draft board. I need to wander into the draft forum and see what you draft gurus foresee.
 

Jordan Raanan ✔ @JordanRaanan

Lots of teams still looking for tackles.
Giants waiting on Mike Remmers. Ryan Schraeder may be next in line. He’s attracted plenty of interest including from Texans and Vikings who also desperately need help at the position.
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Feb 2017, he suffered a torn ankle injury and has been going down hill since. 2017 season ended with him ranked #29 of RTs (not of all OTs). Last season, PFF rated his performance at 63 (#54 of all OTs).
 
DocBar said:
I also wonder if the Oz debacle has caused paralysis by analysis concerning the highest regarded FAs and that's why the Texans absolutely refuse to take a chance on the top OL FAs.
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They were in the Solder sweepstakes last season. They went in on the Saffold bidding. They mentioned red flags about Brown... I don't think are gunshy
 
thunderkyss said:
They were in the Solder sweepstakes last season. They went in on the Saffold bidding. They mentioned red flags about Brown... I don't think are gunshy
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By gun shy, I mean putting a stupid big offer on the table. The Texans will make their best offer and let the chips fall where they may. I'm actually all for this approach.
 
Donald Penn may be an Ephraim Salaam esque replacement. With his injury history though i’m not sure he would be more serviceable than Davenport in a platoon with a rookie (assuming the rookie doesn’t win the job outright).
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Feb 2017, he suffered a torn ankle injury and has been going down hill since. 2017 season ended with him ranked #29 of RTs (not of all OTs). Last season, PFF rated his performance at 63 (#54 of all OTs).
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What also hasn’t helped the past two seasons has been Sarkisian as the OC instead of Kyle Shanahan. Everyone on that offense has taken a step back since Shanahan left. Not saying he’ll be a pro bowl level RT for the Texans like he was the Falcons Super Bowl season... but Sarkisian was fired for a reason.
 
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