Sorry, just been seeing all these guys cry over not signing Brown
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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
When they needed a QB and brought in Hoyer, that didn't solve their need for QB. Just because they got the bodies for the positions they needed, doesn't mean the need has been eliminated. Who those bodies are matters.
Howard could end up being an All-Pro, who knows, but man, using a 1st round commodity on a player from a 2A school is just taking an extremely huge risk. Not that anybody from any school isn't a risk, but you don't double down on that risk. Not in the 1st freaking round. That's why people don't feel good with how this draft went down.
21 players from non power 5 schools were taken in the 1st 3 rounds and the Texans drafted 3 of them, including 1 of the 4 2A players taken in the 1st 3 rounds, that they took in the FIRST round. I don't see how that leaves anybody feeling good about this draft. The Texans don't have the luxury of taking higher risk picks like that.
LZ also wrote:
- Hand placement and hand strength needs a lot of work
- Loses leverage and core strength with misplaced hands
- Flailing outside hand carries no steam
- Unable to generate push through leg drive due to lack of lower-body power
- Gives ground when edge rushers double back into a bull rush
- Will lean in his pass sets, looking for help to brace up
- Needs to get hands off quicker and keep from giving away his chest
- Needs to hit weights in order to add mass and weight
- Lacks upper-body strength
- Defaults to bear-hug mauling as base blocker
I agree it doesn't make sense to take Howard in the 1st, especially for the Texans.
But BO'b has done nothing with 2 second round picks & a dozen offensive line FAs. If the argument is that those guys weren't exactly what he wanted, you run out of options. I don't know that was BO'b/Devlin's argument. But something is happening there.
I think I know why Smith didn't give them any new talent in 2017. Waste of resources with those clowns.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Our center was at the center of this.
You may want to go to PFF and checkout Davenport's rating.
For the record Davenport was worse than his rating.
If Brown/Solder are avg they would be a huge upgrade.
Scharping can play OT in the NFL. Check out how many sacks he gave up in 3 yrs of college. He has much better feet than you're giving him credit for. He understands angles.
Max
Veteran
Seems clear to me that we've adopted a long term philosophy of building through the draft and have as many picks as possible to do so. FA's aren't going to be upper tier but stop gap measures until we can get the core of drafted players up to speed. We're probably going to see a couple more years of 1 year FA signings until the roster gets turned over to their liking. It's not really clear how they will handle the talent they've cultivated once their rookie deals are up (assuming it's a player they want to retain) but I'm going to guess that we're not going to be overpaying and they'll be willing to let these guys walk if they can't be retained on a team friendly deal (could be wrong about that but it seems to fit w/ the build through the draft philosophy). Overall, I think it's a sound approach for sustained success in this league but it means that it's going to take a little longer to get to where we all want to be. With that philosophy in mind, I don't know that they were as concerned as we all want them to be that their 1st rounder contributes immediately. They're playing the long game and think he'll be here for a while while learning from vets if need be. Doesn't mean that Gaine can't get better at working the draft to get value and the best talent. Hopefully this happens, but overall I like the approach.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Add to this teams in same division improved both in free agency and the draft.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
Steel was responding to Warring in the above quote. He would give up the chance of Warring/ and drafting Howard for Dillard.
For additional support of my anti-Air Raid lineman bias let me reference PFF. In the top 25 I see less than 5 spread teams (spread is not Air Raid), 18 pro style offenses, and 2 option offenses. Not a single Air Raid offensive lineman.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-offensive-linemen-of-the-2018-nfl-season
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A very well thought out argument.
The reason I like Dillard is because he's very well coordinated and moves well for a man his size. This makes me think his transition to the NFL wont be as difficult as what your posts makes the transition to be. Dillard does need work in the run game but seems to be able to use his body to shield defenders in the run game. His athleticism also will help him to be able to hit his target on the 2nd level.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
I agree with the athleticism standpoint on Dillard because all of my initial analysis come from a "moneyball" approach to scouting where numbers give me a template to begin. But when I take the next step in my analysis, his coaching/scheme fit, I just do not see Dillard working for the Texans under BOb. In Arizona with their new offense, yes. In KC with Reid's modified WCO/Spread, yes. Ditto for Philly with the same modified WCO/Spread. Good thing he went to Philly for HIM.
If you look at Howard (Alabama State-Spread/Pro) and Scharping (Northern Illinois-Spread/Pro), we took two guys that fit the pro style/multiple style offense with traditional line spreads of the offense that we have tried to implement, similar to New England (results may vary...). The best offensive line coach in football, Dante Scarnecchia, took Cajuste (West Virginia-Spread) and Froholdt (Arkansas-Pro/Spread) and if my memory serves me correctly New England has never drafted an Air Raid offensive lineman (option teams are fair game-see Shaq Mason). The biggest discrepancy I see in our picks as opposed to New England is the strength/bench numbers of their draftees. Froholdt has shorter arms so more bench reps are explained for him in that light, but Cajuste with 32 bench reps with 34 inch arms is very impressive.
I never understood the Dillard or Howard to Terron Armstead comparison because their physical profiles are not similar. I think Howard reminds me of Trent Williams more than anyone. I know Howard's 3 Cone and 20 Yard Shuttle are horrendous at the moment, but he is still learning how to carry the extra weight. He rushed for 300 yards as a QB in his final high school game, so I am willing to give him a little time to figure out how to properly carry that weight. Also, coming from a DII school, Howard probably did not have the high profile combine training experts provided to him by his agency as some of the higher profile draft eligible players are afforded. Again, this is just my opinion and I have no inside knowledge of any of the players listed below.
Let us look at the combines compared.
Terron Armstead
HEIGHT 6'5"
WEIGHT 306LBS.
ARMS 34"
HANDS 9 1/4"HANDS
40 Yard Dash 4.71 SEC
Bench Press 31 REPS
Vertical Jump 34.5 INCH
Broad Jump 112.0 INCH
3 Cone Drill 7.62 SEC
20 Yard Shuttle 4.72 SEC
Trent Williams
HEIGHT 6'5"
WEIGHT 315LBS.
ARMS 34 1/2"
HANDS 9 3/4"HANDS
40 Yard Dash 4.88 SEC
Bench Press 23 REPS
Vertical Jump 34.5 INCH
Broad Jump 113.0 INCH
3 Cone Drill 7.64 SEC
20 Yard Shuttle 4.63 SEC
---------
Dillard
HEIGHT 6' 5"
WEIGHT 315 lbs
ARMS 33 1/2”
HANDS 10”
40 Yard Dash 4.96u SECONDS
Bench Press 24 REPS
Vertical Jump 29.0 INCHES
Broad Jump 118.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 7.44 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.4 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Howard
HEIGHT 6' 5"
WEIGHT 322 lbs
ARMS 34”
HANDS 10 5/8”
40 Yard Dash 5.05u SECONDS
Bench Press 21 REPS
Vertical Jump 29.5 INCHES
Broad Jump 103.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 8.34 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.87 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Scharping
HEIGHT 6' 6"
WEIGHT 327 lbs
ARMS 33 5/8”
HANDS 10”
40 Yard Dash N/A
Bench Press 27 REPS
Vertical Jump 28.0 INCHES
Broad Jump 108.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 7.77 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.69 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Cajuste
HEIGHT 6' 5"
WEIGHT 312 lbs
ARMS 34”
HANDS 10”
40 Yard Dash N/A (Walterfootball predicted 5.2)
Bench Press 32 REPS
Vertical Jump N/A
Broad Jump N/A
3 Cone Drill N/A
20 Yd Shuttle N/A
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Froholdt
HEIGHT 6' 5"
WEIGHT 306 lbs
ARMS 31 1/4”
HANDS 9 3/4”
40 Yard Dash 5.2u SECONDS
Bench Press 31 REPS
Vertical Jump 27.5 INCHES
Broad Jump 105.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 7.51 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.54 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
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Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Honestly I feel we should've traded up to steal Josh Allen at #6 and offered Clowney and our two 2nd rounders... Taken Lonnie at 23 and Max in the 3rd ( who I honestly feel we could've traded back from 3rd and picked up in the 4th)... You'd have more money for OL while Deshaun makes his transition from Rookie contract to Pro and you wouldn't have to worry about Tytus Howard blocking a top 10 DE in Josh Allen...
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
I had us trading up for Josh Allen but Instead of using Clowney in the trade I had to use two 1st round picks because you can't choose to trade a player on this site I used...
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
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You had me sold until I looked at the Combine numbers. If you're a small school guy going in the 1st rd you should be an athletic freak like Armstead. While Howard is a good athlete he's nowhere near a freakish level athlete. In fact just looking at the raw numbers Scharping appears to be the better athlete. Of course you have much more knowledge about Howard than I do, because all I've seen is a few video clips and the Sr Bowl practices. Just looking at the numbers Howard profiles more as a RT than a LT. I hope you're right on this one. Hopefully Howard improves with NFL S&C and coaching.
BTW, Check out my 1st mock, I'm still very high on Cajuste. If this guy stays healthy the Pats got a steal. Big, strong as an ox, has good feet and plays with a nasty streak.
If that's true, then they had plenty of time to trade down, not 10 minutes as people were saying
This proves sometimes it's better not to say anything at all, lest you look like a fool.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
When I hear that Howard's Combine numbers were not flashy, I have to say that from talking to players over the years, they found undeniable significant boost by having high profile trainers work with them specifically for maximizing the Combine. I have no doubt that he did not have this benefit. Nor did he have the benefit of high profile college coaching and conditioning. With his background, it is impressive to see how many strong traits Howard brings to the table upon entering the NFL........although he will have only an offseason to really prepare and sharpen his skills for the big stage, I believe that by week 1 his skeptics will take note.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
This, very much this. Its why I don't put much stock in the combine. The combine to me is just a way to hype some players up and get more eyes on the up coming draft. It no more tells you how well a player will do in an NFL game than a drivers ed. class can tell you how someone will drive on I-10 in rush hour. I'm still not sure about this pick but its not because of his combine numbers.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He's building versatility at the wrong time. Let draftees get 2-3 years of solid work at one position then start cross-training vets for versatility.
zshawn10
All Pro
Some teams’ supposed draft ‘reaches’ make a lot more sense than others https://t.co/7V6NNiOA4W
— Michael Lombardi (@mlombardiNFL) April 29, 2019
PFF HOU Texans@PFF_Texans
A more in-depth look at No. 23 pick Alabama State OT Tytus Howard's 2018 season: 658 snaps 77.6 overall grade (13th in draft class's OTs)
87.8 pblk grade (T-9th)
75.5 rblk grade (12th)
11 pressures allowed (6 hurries, 4 hits, 1 sack)
8 penalties (1 declined)
10:54 AM - 28 Apr 2019
— Michael Lombardi (@mlombardiNFL) April 29, 2019
PFF HOU Texans@PFF_Texans
A more in-depth look at No. 23 pick Alabama State OT Tytus Howard's 2018 season: 658 snaps 77.6 overall grade (13th in draft class's OTs)
87.8 pblk grade (T-9th)
75.5 rblk grade (12th)
11 pressures allowed (6 hurries, 4 hits, 1 sack)
8 penalties (1 declined)
10:54 AM - 28 Apr 2019
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
We don't agree on a lot of things but damn.....I'm 100% on board with this post.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I don't believe Albert breer. O'Brien loves to play the media
@MattHammondShow: “Word on the NFL street was that the Texans number one tackle was Washington State’s Andre Dillard.”
If so, Brian Gaine should’ve traded up and got his guy, instead of settling.
That simple.
https://t.co/HCWeamE6uY
If so, Brian Gaine should’ve traded up and got his guy, instead of settling.
That simple.
https://t.co/HCWeamE6uY
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So one talking head says that he was their guy , another talking head says they missed their guy. It all depends on what the particular talking head thinks will get him the most clicks/retweets/ratings.
Actually Greer doesn't actually say Howard was #1 ot on the Texans board. Just that they had their eye on him
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
What are you talking about, it was right there in huge, bolded letters in CnD's post that they had settled on him 3 or 4 weeks ago. How is that not saying he was number one on their board.
That could also be read as "settling on him if Dillard wasn't there"
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Man you are really twisting things to fit your narrative.
No, saying Tytus Howard was the #1 OT is some major twisting
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Don't recall anyone saying he was the #1 OT just that he was the one the Texans wanted. Really I don't know if he was or not. What I was saying was that two different people with the same job are reporting two opposite things as facts. My point to all this is that objectively you can't take any of it as the gospel and that people tend to tune into and believe whoever fits what they most believe.
Well if they didn't have him #1 but wanted him, then there is no contradiction in what the talking heads said
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Well they may have had him as their #1, the way you worded may it sound like he was the #1 ranked OT in the draft which was not the case. Just because someone isn't the number one ranked doesn't mean he's not who a team wants as their number one. Trubisky was the number one ranked QB in that draft but he wasn't who the Texan's wanted, Watson may not have been either but that's a different can of worms, so are we talking about a teams #1 or the ratings #1? I would say hazard to say that he was the Texan's number 1 just based off what BoB seems to like in players.
Well, one fits every single draft scout analysis of Howard NOT being the #1, #2, or even #3 OT out there. The vast majority of those he was rated #6 or worse.
Which is easier to believe?
The Texans had Howard as their #1 rated OT period.
The Texans had Howard as their #1 rated OT for their needs/system.
The Texans had Howard as their next best OT after Dillard was gone.
The Texans had Howard as the best rated remaining OT that fit their scheme after Dillard was gone?
The Texans had Howard as the best upside OT prospect remaining at that point.
If it's #1, the Texans really think they're the smartest guys in any room.
If it's #2, the Texans are only getting "system" guys, no matter what BPA, or even BPA at that position says.
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GROSS! That’s agains low level talent. Lol and people are wanting him to start this year.
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Years ago, when he was just starting out, I used to listen to John McClain quite often. He wasn't Joel Buschbaum, or even Mel Kiper .... but he was steadily compiling contacts, all over the country, and consequentially, gathered an increasingly and impressive number of information sources. Then, evidently, he was made an offer he couldn't refuse. He became just another talking head for Houston. I quit listening to him. Yesterday, I read an article by McClain, explaining the loss of Dillard to the Eagles. As. it turns out, when Philadelphia made the offer of picks #127 and #197 to move in front of us, the Ravens called Gaine .... but he said our 5th rounder was too valuable to part with. I'm sure O'Brien was consulted. I think nearly every draft source had Howard in the 2nd round, and Dillard top half of the 1st ! Is it possible that Gaine and O'Brien could not see the huge margin of talent difference between the two ? I was sold on Williams from the beginning of the season .... until I finally saw Dillard. What great feet .... 7.44 - 3 cone drll ! Absolutely born to the position ! What a shame ! BTW .... that article by McClain, explaining the truth of what actually went down, has mysteriously vanished from the web !
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If I had to guess I'd say its a mix of 1 and 2. I do believe that BoB thinks he is a better coach than his record, at least his post season one, has shown itself to be and I also believe that they think if they can get the right guys that match their system then it will all work out. I base this on the fact that BoB tries to make every player fit his system rather than adjust the system to fit the player. Taken our season record into account I'm not sure if he's on to something or if the talent on the field is so damn good they win despite him. That's not sarcasm or trying to be funny or a smartass, I truly can't tell which it is.
It’s called trying to cover your ass. I swear to god if we finish 8 nd 8 or 9 and 7 and we keep this ************ as our coach I’m gonna lose my mind.
Just amazing that O'Brien is so insecure that he pulls guys media credentials and has articles pulled. Was this the case with Kubiak? I don't remember.
What evidence between the contract alignment and extension and the way the Texans organization has conducted itself previously makes you think that 9-7 would place BOB in any kind of danger?
Of course this is mere supposition, and I've said it before, but ..... I believe that O'Brien will always be a defense guy, (although I often find him offensive) !
Not a dam thing. But cmon!
All of this would be great if Howard was a 3rd Rd pick as a project
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PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
If Dillard was their guy, he would have been drafted by them. Your not just gonna back down and say “no thanks, they can have him”. It’s not rocket science, you do whatever it takes to get your guy. The anti OB crowd started this nonsense
I'm neither pro or anti BOB.
I said this was a 3 yr rebuild. Next yr is when Howard/Scharping/Warring etc.. get experience. Hopefully Watson can survive their learning curve.