drumk most of the time yes, angry no ,but it does get more difficult to suffer fools every year
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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
drumk most of the time yes, angry no ,but it does get more difficult to suffer fools every year
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I've had these conversations for two days and have come to several conclusions .
1. If Dillard was all that as a LT he'd be a top 5 pick cause that's where stud LT prospects go . Jonah Williams went before Dillard .
2. I'm not condoning the Texans picks but I am trying to figure their angle . I think they believe they can lift these small school guys with better weight and nutrition training will pass up some of these big school guys who had more advantage .
3. We'll see if going off the worn path will lead them to prosperity or get them fired . Maybe this has some Cal influence also .
But if rumors are true that they tried to trade up for Dillard then they had him ranked much higher than Howard and sraight up bungled it.
Doesn't help that a successful franchise in the eagles confirmed he is worth trading up for there
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
That's true and time will tell .
Howard was plan B when Dillard was picked in the top 15 . He wasn't , he was picked right before which makes plan B look worse . The Eagles gave up the 25th pick , their 4th rd pick , and their 6th rd pick . The Texans didn't have a 4th .
First, we don't know what Williams was drafted to play. The Bengals have a vet LT in Cordy Glenn. Will Jonah take over at LT next year? Is he being looked at as a RT, or OG, now? We don't know.
Second, Williams was always considered the safer pick, because he has shown some proficiency as a run blocker. Some of the teams that could have used a LT (Carolina and Minnesota), like to run the ball. Dillard was never in a 3 point stance or fired off the ball. That was a deal breaker to some teams.
Third, the Eagle run a lot of zone read, where the OTs used position blocks rather than fire across the LOS. That's what Dillard has experience at. He was a good fit for what Philly asks of their o-linemen.
Finally, Dillard was the best pass blocking OT in this draft, bar none. He is not a perfect player, or would have gone top 5 as you suggested. But, he did excel at the one aspect that is most crucial to the Texans future success. Protecting the QB. Keeping pressure from the QB's blindside, so he can stay in the pocket and look for receivers downfield. Dillard had a skill set that was not on the Texans roster. That's why he was worth more to a team like the Texans than other teams. So asking why didn't the other teams (besides Philly) covet Dillard is the wrong question. The question should be, why didn't the Texans do enough to obtain the skill set they needed in 2019?
They had a 3rd. Who wouldn't trade Howard and Warring for Dillard straight up?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The Texans !
They may rue the day they missed on Dillard but there's a chance that Howard and the TE are really good players . There's a chance Dillard or Howard has Ron Dayne run into their knee . I don't get all riled up over the draft .
This is exactly what I thought when the Eagles drafted Wentz with the 2nd overall pick. I know QBs are different, but we're talking about the 2nd overall pick.
They also had future picks.
I think the two tackles and TE were smart pics. Were they the best players available, probably not. But we may have lost one of the rising stars best player in our quarterback if we didn’t address the line.
It had to be done before we got Watson killed and what then, take another 10 years to find our quarterback?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It had to be done before we got Watson killed and what then, take another 10 years to find our quarterback?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Agreed. Absolutely would feel much better about this pick with more play at LT.
However I do feel good that we'll have someone as athletic as Howard or Sharping on the right side with the talent out there on the right side nowadays. Jj Watt, Cameron Wake, Von Miller, etc...
Also another good example how different real NFL teams with skin in the game rated these players, Lindstrom mid first, trading back into the first, not for Taylor, not for Little, not for a CB, but another tackle mocked mid to late 2nd.
That's the thing. Any other draft & infantrycak would be telling us how mock drafts aren't Gospel.
Maybe they had Dillard as a top 10 player. Extreme value if he dropped to 23. Then Howard as the 29th best player. Maybe the were torn about which guy they really wanted. Dillard has the pedigree, would have been the "smart" pick.
Maybe when Dillard was on the board at 19 they started going over their arguments for both players to make a decision they didn't think they'd have to make. Dillard or Howard?
Then Philly made the decision for them.
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The Falcons have Matthews at LT. McGary isn't the pass blocker Dillard is, but a proven RT. Lindstrom is the perfect ZBS OG for Atlanta. But passing on Brian Burns and leaving him for a division rival is weird.
I think the Falcons were looking for a plug and play RT. Not a guy who might be able to play LT in a year. I think that's how the OT boards shaped up. Teams that could afford a developmental season had Howard higher. Those that needed a rookie starter had McGary, Little, and Risner higher. Those that don't give a **** about medicals had Taylor higher.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Actually I wasn’t “going with” anything. I was asking based on my understanding of the importance of the LT position. Guessing I shouldn’t have wasted my time with trying to discuss something with you either.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Your bias is showing, it wasn’t “bungled” it was a calculated risk that any team would have taken. Let’s say they did try and trade up, for some strange reason every time the Texans try and trade or make an offer and they don’t go through people on here blame the Texans. So say the trading partner said ok I’ll trade but I want both your seconds, your third and your first next year and this year. Clearly that would be a horrible deal but people on here would be saying the Texans couldn’t get the job done if they didn’t take it and didn’t trade up.
As far as the Eagles go no draft I saw had them even considering a LT at all never mind Dillard. If I was the Texans I would have thought that if he made it to 22 there was no reason to believe he wouldn’t make it to 23.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Also Atlanta could have selected Andre Dillard #14. Like Texans OL needed fortified to protect Matt Ryan but they choose OG Lindstrom (I would call that just as big of reach as Howard but still a fine prospect who address need). Then they traded back into first to get OT Kaleb (maybe because Texans choose Howard). Just a point other teams have similar issues/needs so often is the case their is a rush to address.
Do you think they would ever say that now? If so to what purpose would it serve?
Do you think they would ever say that now? If so to what purpose would it serve?
Wolf12339
Waterboy
The falcons O-line is made up of all 1st round picks now.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
So much assuming going on.
Did I miss it when Gaine said he had Dillard rated ahead of Howard on his board?
Howard knows how to run block, something the Texans want to do.
Dillard not so much. He'd be better served with the Cardinals.
Run blocking isn’t his strong suit, as he will overextend his hips, lunging and finding himself off balance. Dillard will need to get better at holding onto his blocks, showing poor hand placement at times. draftwire
Now that sounds like a work in progress to me.
Did I miss it when Gaine said he had Dillard rated ahead of Howard on his board?
Howard knows how to run block, something the Texans want to do.
Dillard not so much. He'd be better served with the Cardinals.
Run blocking isn’t his strong suit, as he will overextend his hips, lunging and finding himself off balance. Dillard will need to get better at holding onto his blocks, showing poor hand placement at times. draftwire
Now that sounds like a work in progress to me.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I wonder what it is the Texans ask of their o-linemen? I mean, other than being able to play 7 positions.
Now, you're assuming. Alabama State averaged 108 rushing yards/game with a 3.0 ypc average. Not putting it all on one OT on a bad small college team. But we certainly don't have evidence that Howard can run block at a NFL proficient level.
And if Gaine did have Howard above Dillard, he's not lasting long as a NFL GM. I'm giving Gaine the benefit of the doubt that he just couldn't come up with a deal to move up. Not a ringing endorsement, but not on the level of a flat out evaluation whiff.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I haven't heard read this rumor. I've read that there was an offer from a team ahead of the Texans to trade down with the Texans but they wanted one of our twos. This was a no go with the Texans. I haven't heard of the Texans initiating an offer to trade up.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So much assuming going on.
Did I miss it when Gaine said he had Dillard rated ahead of Howard on his board?
Howard knows how to run block, something the Texans want to do.
Dillard not so much. He'd be better served with the Cardinals.
Run blocking isn’t his strong suit, as he will overextend his hips, lunging and finding himself off balance. Dillard will need to get better at holding onto his blocks, showing poor hand placement at times. draftwire
Now that sounds like a work in progress to me.
What was the line's fundamental failure last season? - protect the QB. Run blocking was needs improvement not atrocious.
Who'd improve the rushing attack more, an OT from a small program or the #1 RB who was from a major? - yeah, the RB.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Just more assumption. If Howard develops into all pro does that mean that all the GM's that passed on him will not last long. Gotta give it time to play out before deciding if Howard was the right choice.
Part of Zeirleins scouting report:
- Operates with quickness and timing to thrive on second level as run blocker
- Continues working hips and feet to gain positioning advantage after engagement
- Plays with pad level and lateral speed to get to toughest backside blocks
- Excellent potential as move blocker up to second level
- Good job to steer and seal the edge for sweeps
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Your first response was the QB needed protection and the run blocking was not atrocious.
So your solution is to draft a running back? We will just have to disagree about that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Your first response was the QB needed protection and the run blocking was not atrocious.
So your solution is to draft a running back? We will just have to disagree about that.
Well frankly I think Gaine should be fired now if your reasoning played any part in the Texans ending up with Howard over Dillard.
One more time, they were epically horrendous in pass protection & middle of the NFL in rushing. Just about any other reason than "we wanted to improve rushing" makes more sense.
I apologize. Been some seriously snippy responses if you don’t toe the company line here. Look even if that was a factor, he only played a couple of years at a small school at OT. I don’t know how it can be looked at any other way than what I said earlier.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If it works Bill & Brian will be geniuses . If it don’t they’ll lose credibility . Of course that works with the pundits too . Those that give the Texans a D will look dumb . I’m hoping this draft pans out to be at least a B .
Not to me they won’t. They didn’t get the value they could of out of this draft. I like the players but hate where they drafted them. They took too much risk. This draft was loaded with solid talent and this was a chance to add serious depth to a top heavy team. Instead we reached for need.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Which is why I always preach need for FA and talent for the Draft. You don't fill needs in FA then that will affect your decision making in the Draft.
That being said, every fan on this site was saying we needed multiple OT's and CB's from this Draft. The Texans did that yet most appear unhappy anyway.
My issue isn't with the players or the positions. It's with the process. This team is right on the cusp yet the FO shows no sense of urgency. No aggression. They wait for things to happen instead of making them happen. They coach scared and they take minimal risk. They are petrified of making a mistake and that's not how you build a winner.
FA & this draft, looks more like they're piling up mistake after mistake, big risk on Kalil, big risk on Roby, big risk on Howard, big risk all around. A lot of sht has to go right for this to be a success. Things that regularly hasn't gone right at all.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Kalil and Roby are on 1-year deals. FO doesn't see them as risk. To them, risk is using cap space on long term deals even if you have $64M in space.
But yes, a lot of things have to go right for this to be a success. This team is not really any better than the team from last year and the schedule is going to much, much tougher.
The defense is handled much differently though. They did address holes in FA. Its a shame O'Brien makes so many dumb moved on his side of the ball.
Honestly, team is much better. More speed man coverage ability in the secondary. More bodies on the OL. 2 major holes filled
On secondary I agree, but we can't assume 4 of our OTs can play. Two are projects and the other two have questionable health.
Only shame is play calling. Same argument I had when kubiak was here
But by the end of the year most of the pressure came from inside, our inept guards and center couldn't handle stunts. What killed us against the Colts
So it's even worse than I thought lol
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
While I don’t disagree the problem is that you may not have great or even any choices in F/A for the positions you need. I mean look at this F/A for LTs. You basically had Trent Brown, that was the only choice really worth considering and he would have broken the bank.
F/A for need works if you only need one or two players but when you need 3+ the price tag gets to high and the choices to slim.
Scharping isn't athletic, but he's big
There were value guys to be had. Ty Nsekhe signed for 2 years, $14M. Daryl Williams resigned for one year coming off injury.
I would have preferred either to broken Khalil and Seantrel. Heck I'd even prefer to bring back Lamm
So we only have 3 OTs on the roster and only one healthy one?
Square peg round hole. Brown is a rt, was average even with Brady smh. Just like solder, average at best. Why would you want that? We have that with Davenport. Big long slow feet