The question was mallet. All those guys are much better
No one said we don't prefer watson.
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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
The question was mallet. All those guys are much better
No one said we don't prefer watson.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Perhaps Jonah Williams was their top rated tackle. would you have advocated for them giving up what they would've had to to move up to grab him ahead of Cincy @ 10? Would you fault them as much as you are now if they didn't?
Point is, you could ask the bolded question you're proposing about any number of prospects at a position of need for us. The only reason people are beyotching about Tytus being selected is b/c we came so close to possibly (still don't know if he was tops on our board even if he had been available) getting the guy that all the so-called draft experts said we were going to get & the guy we got wasn't even on the fans' radar.......which is dumb b/c none of these experts had a consistent top 5 tackle hierarchy. Some had Williams #1, some had Taylor #1 Some had Dillard. Tytus however was consistently rated just outside of whatever top 5 they had at the 6th or 7th spot which leads me to believe he was there mainly b/c there wasn't enough tape out there on him that draftniks felt like they could rank him over guys they'd seen playing in primetime slots on saturdays.
And then we can move on to the OL, where Brooks and Jones were replaced by Jeff Allen and Bergstrom.
So no I wouldn't be surprised if O'Brien was too stupid to trade a 5th to get dillard
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
This team went 9-7 for 2 years after Fitz went 9-7, no plus or minus. Let’s not just say Keenum and Tyrod were better options because that’s personal opinion, not fact. Last I checked JG and Dak aren’t really setting the world on fire either. I’d rather be in this current state with DW over having any of those guys.
No, you are saying they are better. Keenum stinks which is a fact. Tyrod can’t hold down a starting role. JG has not shown enough and Dak is just middle of the road
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Brooks always had a medical issue and Ben Jones is a backup fringe starter, he’s not necessarily mauling DL for Tennessee
All of those guys are better than Mallet.
Obrien chose mallet as his starter. He does dumb stuff like that every year
Obrien replaced both with much worse players and now we've had a terrible ol for years.
You can make excuses for every individual move but it adds up. The Dillard thing is no different
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Allen was a bad signing solely because he was a LG that OB foolishly tried to make a RG. It was a very good signing, just bad decision to make him a RG and Nick Martin has been solid
Well exactly. OBrien does dumb crap
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Can’t disagree with this statement.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There was no “replace” in the sense you’re trying to say it. Brooks & Jones left on their own accord as free agents. BoB didn’t get rid of them or trade them willingly. Hell “he” himself didn’t execute the transactions to release or not offer contracts to them period.
I know u want to spin this narrative bro, but it’s just not accurate.
Our brilliant front office did "just that" .... Gaine said that he did not want to spend a 5th to move up one spot .... for the "most NFL ready" left tackle ! It may have come from Bob .... who had fallen in love with some cerebral, white, slow-footed safety, from Brown University !!
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Is there a source or link for this?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'd sure like to see people stop pointing to Brooks' exit as an O'Brien mistake.
From my post last Oct.:
From my post last Oct.:
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
That’s..... your source? Rapoport??
"Word on the NFL street was that Houston’s number one tackle was Washington State’s Andre Dillard. So the Eagles had to be angling for Dillard."
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/29/nfl-draft-fmia-peter-king/?cid=pfttease/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/29/nfl-draft-fmia-peter-king/?cid=pfttease/
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
You have literally shared 2 national talking heads who are just going on a whim. “The Texans need an OT, Dillard must be the pick”.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Because mistakes aren't limited to 1.
Despite his medical problems he played well enough to be retained. In fact, it was so good he was a tampering/high priority target for the Eagles just the way he was. He signed on March 9th. The fact they found out something LATER that made him better doesn't nullify anything.
Brooks' play for the Texans, troubles and all, got him a 5 yr $40 mil deal. That's the player OB let go.
I read it on Sunday. I went back to quote it yesterday, and it was gone ! I am very sure of the information. I used to record Jon McClain on Wednesday nights, because of choir practice. I've spoken with him several times. When he started out, he was a straight shooter .... then he went on the Oiler's payroll. After that, he toed the line .... never being critical .... always praising the team .... never a negative word. I quit him years ago. However .... for whatever reason, he first told the truth about the blatant error .... yesterday, I went to copy it .... it had been removed and replaced by ravings about the Tytus Howard pick. I swear to God Almighty that this is true ! I don't like to do that.
Rookie Willie Roaf, or should've retired Willie Roaf?
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
That’s the $1 mil question. Per the listing it says Roaf was 6’5 320(which I doubt was his actual playing weight and rarely gets updated after the combine)
Probably because Dillard was still on the board. Had Dillard gone at 13 or 15, these yahoos may very well traded up to 18 to get Howard.
They probably knew he'd last at least until their first round pick
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, that was not the player O'Brien let go. You can try to manipulate it all you want and it won't change anything. Near the end of his tenure, his run blocking play was deteriorating and he was missing practices and games, and he was spending more time in the doctors' offices and hospital. The team/O'Brien was emphatically told that his gastrointestinal problems would not get better and only get worse and would increasingly complicate his future. Presented with these fact, re-signing him for 2016 to a big long-term contract based on his 2013 and 2014 performance was not going to happen. I received this information from the medical side before he hit free agency.
Nonetheless he did a terrible job replacing him. It was a top 10 OL when O'Brien got here. And somehow the eagles were smart enough to sign Brooks
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
"That player?". An undiagnosed player was instantly signed to a huge contract based on his play with the Texans. THAT player was the one OB didn't keep.
Did he get better later with better medical care? - sure, and best wishes to him. But any manipulation is in trying to claim that absolves OB.
Frankly your defense of OB on this looks like it calls for indictment instead. HC who sees a player in that much distress which can't be solved by his own staff should be urging him/setting up 2nd & 3rd opinions until a solution is found.
I liked this post. You have a point.
At the same time, Bridgewater/Clowney, Hopkins/Patterson, Kareem/Kyle Wilson... & there's more. It is more likely the Texans have their 1st round pick right than not. Regardless what talking heads, draftniks, & us fans say.
I think they have had some good picks and I have mentioned crennels defense has been top 10 almost every year imo (here is where the people who say I'm too negative on the coaching staff tell me Crennel sucks)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Crennel builds good Ds for balanced teams. Still need an O.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Theatrics may work in court, but the facts are the facts. The HC is not a doctor and relies on the medical information and recommendations that are given him ......and the medical staff on most teams in such cases does and should trump a coach's opinion. If you have a problem with that, you should take it up with the medical staff (or the FO), not me.
Mayber you'll have some clever comeback that you just can't help.........or hopefully you could pleasantly surprise me and let it be. But kindly excuse me from further "discussions" on this subject.
He's got a point though, don't he?
Regardless his medical status Philly saw his play here & signed him to a hefty contract. It's not like we cut him because he couldn't play. Not like he sat on someone's bench for a year, was diagnosed, then made a remarkable comeback.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Think it got personal. Most separations that lead to Divorce do.
https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/5/31/17411952/brandon-brooks-didnt-like-playing-for-bill-obrien
https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/5/31/17411952/brandon-brooks-didnt-like-playing-for-bill-obrien
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& if we were talking about getting personal with players like Swearinger or Ryan Mallett, fine. I'm on the coaches side. But when we're talking about good people who can play; Brooks, Aj, Duane Brown... we got a problem. (Not that DB was on O'Brien).
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
Just a couple other individuals who had some or all “horrible” combine measurements of note from last years draft. I’ve learned in the last 10 years that the “moneyball” approach should be my template, but not the end all of requirements because sometimes numbers can be misleading. Now the following two names both succeeded at RT, but compare these two top 5 rookie OT to the two we drafted.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-nfls-top-5-rookie-offensive-linemen
Orlando Brown Jr. - Ravens - Pick 3.83
HEIGHT 6' 8"
WEIGHT 345 lbs
ARMS 35” (Longer arms detrimental to bench - still well below average bench)
HANDS 9 3/4”
40 Yard Dash 5.85u SECONDS
Bench Press 14 REPS
Vertical Jump 19.5 INCHES
Broad Jump 82.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 7.87 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 5.38 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Compared to Howard
Howard - Texans - Pick 1.23
HEIGHT 6' 5"
WEIGHT 322 lbs
ARMS 34”
HANDS 10 5/8”
40 Yard Dash 5.05u SECONDS
Bench Press 21 REPS
Vertical Jump 29.5 INCHES
Broad Jump 103.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 8.34 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.87 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Braden Smith - Colts - Pick 2.37
HEIGHT 6' 6"
WEIGHT 315 lbs
ARMS 32 1/4” (Shorter Arms improves bench-still impressive bench reps)
HANDS 9 3/8”
40 Yard Dash 5.22u SECONDS
Bench Press 35 REPS
Vertical Jump 33.5 INCHES
Broad Jump 113.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill N/A
20 Yd Shuttle 4.77 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
Compared to Scharping
Scharping - Texans - Pick 2.55
HEIGHT 6' 6"
WEIGHT 327 lbs
ARMS 33 5/8”
HANDS 10”
40 Yard Dash N/A
Bench Press 27 REPS
Vertical Jump 28.0 INCHES
Broad Jump 108.0 INCHES
3 Cone Drill 7.77 SECONDS
20 Yd Shuttle 4.69 SECONDS
60 Yd Shuttle N/A
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp
Texans Draft Value
760+350=1110
Ravens/Colts Aggregate Value 530+175=705
1110-705=405
Texans hypothetically spent an additional second rounder valued between 49-50 overall (400-410).
If one of the two takes the Texans starting LT spot where the Ravens and Colts both have RTs, the value is justified.
Just some hypothetical draft math that I quickly put together.
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I absolutely wanted the Texans to take Brown last yr, I overlooked his combine due to his play in colege/family lineage.
Loved Braden Smith as an OG, I think Scharping can be as good as Smith as either an OG/OT. Great comparison.
Charts dont really matter when it comes to protecting your franchise QB, Dillard was my bet as a franchise LT, Howard was who Gaine/Devlin bet on. It's going to be really interesting to see who is right.
I pray you both are.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
The one thing that gives me a little extra hope when using the "chart" is that the two tackles we drafted had a value of 1110 as previously noted. That would equate to a value between 1.13 (1150) and 1.14 (1100). If just one of the two becomes our franchise LT, regardless of how the other pans out at any other position along the offensive line, the value will be justified because most franchise LT do not make it past 1.14 in any given draft, regardless of BPA and that particular year's positional draft strength.
Most if not all of TexansTalk draft analysts as well as NFL GM's would trade 1.23 and 2.55 for 1.13/1.14 for a chance to draft the LT of the future.
delete
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Philly took a chance on him and it paid off. That happens in the NFL just like taking a chance and it being a bust does. When they signed him the Philly fans were not happy about it and many were asking why they were throwing money at the Texans cast offs. In hindsight Philly looks like NFL geniuses and the Texans idiots, at the time the reverse was true.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Easy, they didn't need to. Howard was not going to be there by the time our second rolled around, pretty much everyone agrees on this, but likewise no one thought he would be taken in the first especially after Dillard dropped. For the sake of argument lets say that Howard was their guy all along, and yes there are reports that are saying this, which means Dillard becomes a safety net to insure they get their guy. Everyone that might want a LT in round one was going to be fighting for Dillard and would do exactly what the Eagles did. So Texans can get Howard without spending any draft capital at all and, because everyone knew they wanted a LT, they would be warned before any team wanting a LT jumped them, just like Baltimore did, due to them hoping to get a better deal.
So if we assume that Howard was the guy all along the draft went exactly as planned for them. Now all that being said after thinking on it for a few days I've decided I don't agree with Howard in round 1. I would have preferred a RB or WR, since they were still there, and maybe use our later picks to trade up into early round 2 and grab Howard there. For example one of our round 2 picks, I'd give up Johnson, and our round 3 pick to trade up with the Cards or even *shudders* the Colts. Howard was definitely worth losing Johnson and Warring but I'm not sure he was worth missing out on Jacobs or Brown. Dillard actually didn't impress me all that much.
Who are these people who said Howard was their Guy? I dont disagree with your last paragraph, except I'm much higher on Dillard than Howard, and we disagree on how good Dillard can be. I think he can be a serviceable LT as a rookie and really improve in yr 2 after getting on a NFL S&C program.
Of course the same can be said about Howard, but I think he's so raw that he will probably struggle as a rookie. Of course like I said, I've seen very little of Howard so he may be better than what I think he will be as a rookie.
Howard had 23 or so visits with NFL teams prior to the draft. He was on a lot of radars after a superb Senior Bowl performance. There was no way he was going to be around at 2.54. Aren't you at least a bit happy that they drafted two OTs that can move? Howard is noted for having great footwork.
Of course I'm happy they finally addressed the OL, even if they didn't get the guy I wanted. A superb Sr. Bowl is a bit of an overstatement. He looked like he belonged, not superb.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
CnD posted this earlier in the thread.
Everyone knew about the Texans’ crying need at tackle. What was less clear was who the team would wind up with and when—with a lot of speculation that they’d trade up. Instead, the franchise sat tight, eyeing Alabama State’s Tytus Howard, who they had settled on three or four weeks earlier. They loved how he held up against top competition playing against Auburn and then in the Senior Bowl, and thought he might have the highest ceiling of the tackle group. And there’s also the versatility that Bill O’Brien prizes. While Andre Dillard is a left tackle who is a projection as an NFL run blocker, and Taylor is a right tackle, Houston believed Howard could play both sides. His NFL comp for them: Terron Armstead.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/nfl-draft-2019-second-third-round-news-rumors-updates
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Just because he visits a lot of teams doesn't mean he won't be available in round 2. It could easily mean that teams expected him to be available in round 2.
Personally I think he was moving up the boards but 23 is too high
Dillard was also a huge beneficiary of spending a week in Mobile.
On the other hand can't help but wonder if former Clemson LT Mitch Hyatt who failed to get drafted now regrets not attending the Senior Bowl ?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Available in round 2, yes. Available at 54 in round two, no.