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QB Quinn Gray (update) signs with Texans
- Thread starter DiehardChris
- Start date
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
On one hand, I've got to believe that Kubiak recognizes the value of a backup QB that can step in when necessary and keep his team competitive - I mean, after all, that's what Kubes was his entire NFL playing career (oh yeah, and there's that whole 4-1 thing for Sage as a starter). Therefore, there's no way Sage gets traded.
On the other hand, I'm also pretty sure that he's got enough of an ego to believe that he can spin gold out of straw again, and turn Quinn Gray into a top-notch backup QB. Whether he believes his (and Rick Smith's) eye for talent saw something in Sage that others didn't/couldn't, or whether he believes his and Shanny Jr's. coaching/tutoring turned Sage into something others didn't/couldn't (or a combination of both), I would be pretty surprised if he's not absolutely convinced that he can't make history repeat itself. Therefore, Sage is as good as gone.
Perhaps backup QB's are just products of the system Kubiak runs much like you hear in regard to RB's and O-Linemen.
On the other hand, I'm also pretty sure that he's got enough of an ego to believe that he can spin gold out of straw again, and turn Quinn Gray into a top-notch backup QB. Whether he believes his (and Rick Smith's) eye for talent saw something in Sage that others didn't/couldn't, or whether he believes his and Shanny Jr's. coaching/tutoring turned Sage into something others didn't/couldn't (or a combination of both), I would be pretty surprised if he's not absolutely convinced that he can't make history repeat itself. Therefore, Sage is as good as gone.
Perhaps backup QB's are just products of the system Kubiak runs much like you hear in regard to RB's and O-Linemen.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Pure smokescreen on keeping 3 QBs in my opinion as Sage or Gray will be gone before training camp.
Kubiak gets the most out of his 52 and Gibbs and Rhodes are going to want bodies due to the injuires their units have endured over the years and the question marks that remain.
We ain't keeping three QBs, unless Kubiak was wondering out in Buffalo Bayou and had a peyote inspired vision quest of Doug Flutie, Clint Longley and Frank Reich.
Kubiak gets the most out of his 52 and Gibbs and Rhodes are going to want bodies due to the injuires their units have endured over the years and the question marks that remain.
We ain't keeping three QBs, unless Kubiak was wondering out in Buffalo Bayou and had a peyote inspired vision quest of Doug Flutie, Clint Longley and Frank Reich.
But that would mean the acquisition of Gray would certainly be no smokescreen if they deal SR after signing Gray.
P
Polo
Guest
Well...
One thing that I thought was interesting was that the guy has never left Florida...
GB, Oak, and Buff have pretty cold climates...
Some guys just absolutely hate playing in cold weather and would rather not play more than a game or two a year in that kind of weather...maybe Houston's weather had a little something to do with his decision...From the get go it seemed like we were HIS #1 option...
I don't know why thinking Gray came here as a third stringer is the easier scenario to believe because the Texans have shown to be kinda loyal to their players (to a certain degree)...I think that the Texans would like an extra pick, and I think Sage would like a legit chance to start....I also don't see Kubes carrying three QB's...
It makes no sense to go into a season planning for all your QB's to get injured...If that were the case, and we DID have to go with our third string QB, we will probably be in bad shape regardless....
Honestly, I really can't see the logic in carrying three veteran QB's like that...If Matt and whoever the second stringer is gets hurt, was it really worth the extra roster spot when we could have carried an extra WR or TE, or RB, or LB, or DB vs. going out and getting a Craig Nall or someone not much worse than Quinn Gray ?
P
Polo
Guest
The smokescren is keeping three QBs
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
No, but saying you are keeping three when it goes against philosophy is analogous to this
I'm wondering now if there is another team in play for Sage? Green Bay still needs a backup. If the Bills trade Losman, they'll need one too. Oakland seems serious about contending next season, and Russell doesn't have a vet backup.
The Vikings still seem to be the most logical team, because their HC Brad Childress might have starting QB Tarvaris Jackson on a short leash. And they have that extra 3rd round pick. As far as the other teams mentioned, the Pack has an extra 2nd round pick acquired from the Browns. That may make them willing to trade their 3rd. Oakland and Buffalo do not have any additional selections in the 1st 3 rounds.
Peyote in Buffalo Bayou? Looks too toxic for me to investigate 1st hand, so I'll just take your word for it.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
not buying Tarvars Jackson on a short leash, love his upside will suffer bumps along the road as he develops. don't see Sage playing similar style.
best fit for Sage, so that would be the Packers 2nd not the Browns 2nd right?
nevermind just checked & not much difference #56 vs #60
Gray would be a better fit in Oakland, probably smart however & doesn't like the direction of the franchise. Buffalo too darn cold & far north.
I'm thinking that a QB who threw 9 TDs to 12 INTs with a 70 QB rating might be on a short leash. But that's just me. And the Vikings run a WCO, similar to the one Sage has played in the past 2 seasons.
Even if Childress is sold on Jackson, he still may covet Rosenfels. The Vikings were 1-5 in games Tarvaris missed, or couldn't finish, due to injury. That cost the Vikings a playoff spot.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
this is also why they have addressed the WR position in FA & I have them taking DeSean Jackson in the 1st rd. that should help improve those numbers
Hottoddie
Veteran
I'm wondering now if there is another team in play for Sage? Green Bay still needs a backup. If the Bills trade Losman, they'll need one too. Oakland seems serious about contending next season, and Russell doesn't have a vet backup.
The Vikings still seem to be the most logical team, because their HC Brad Childress might have starting QB Tarvaris Jackson on a short leash. And they have that extra 3rd round pick. As far as the other teams mentioned, the Pack has an extra 2nd round pick acquired from the Browns. That may make them willing to trade their 3rd. Oakland and Buffalo do not have any additional selections in the 1st 3 rounds.
Peyote in Buffalo Bayou? Looks too toxic for me to investigate 1st hand, so I'll just take your word for it.
Atlanta's QB situation is still up in the air. Even if they take one of the top QB's, do they really want to have their entire season depending upon his success, or lack thereof? Bringing in a veteran like Sage to allow them to groom his replacement might be just what the doctor ordered.
For what it's worth, they've got three 2nds & their 3rd (#68) is a lot higher than Minnesota's (#82).
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Then explain Boyd already being on the roster and he was here last year. Why would you need to pick up another 3rd string QB. Maybe Kubiak agrees with Casserly about never having too many QBs.
Or this could mean Boyd can be packaged now?
I'm just saying that signing Gray makes it a real possiblity that Smith/Kubiak pull the deal on a Sage trade, an option that most people felt was highly unlikely before they picked up the now former Jaqs QB. Lets face it, Kubiak might have thought he was watching the black John Elway in the game last year aginst the Texans. He was real impressive, and they gave up a ton for another QB who they saw nothing of in person like they did Gray.
Who knows what kind of deal they might be considering, and as somebody said there could be other, may multiple interested parties besides the Vikes ?
There could even be a another player involved, say another teams OLineman or DB ?
Who knows what kind of deal they might be considering, and as somebody said there could be other, may multiple interested parties besides the Vikes ?
There could even be a another player involved, say another teams OLineman or DB ?
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I think Tavaris is on a short leash. My concern with Jackson is later in the season teams weren't afraid to stack the box for the running game and try to make Jackson throw to win the game. He didn't make the best of decisions on throwing then.Has upside but is still really raw and leaves me to wonder if he's a LOT more raw then Childress originally thought going into TC and Pre-season last year.
I do think they need to bring someone in behind him that has experience and could possibly teach him a bit. Is Sage that guy? Seems that is who the Vikings want. With Gray onboard now I think things have gotten very interesting in this trade rumor.
There have been FA Qb's come and gone yet the Vikings haven't seemed to take much interest. Both sides seem willing to deal now.
Who is Rosenfels' agent and does he have any connection to Drew Rosenhaus (Gray's Agent)? They might both be trying hard to shop Sage, as both will benefit. Especially since the Texans let Carr go without demanding a pick, as he was a good soldier. Sage has also been a good soldier....and played better also.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
Something really bothers me about Quinn Gray.
The Jacksonville Jaguars signed Quinn Gray.
The Jacksonville Jaguars are apparently in the draft market for a QB. This is pure assumption on my part but they DID send their QB coach to Delaware's pro day. It kind of tells me that they're looking for a QB. Now I did notice the dates and am not sure what they mean. I don't know when they signed Lemon or anything like that.
Quinn Gray has a career day in the final game and is promply shown to the door by the Jaguars.
I don't know... I'm not exactly having warm fuzzy feelings in my stomach about Gray. I'm definitely on the 'sell Sage while his value is high' bandwagon but would have no qualms keeping him either.
It doesn't matter. Quinn Gray is going to get a ton of garbage playing time. See, Schaub is going to play all 16 games and he's going to singlehandedly show the Patriots how perfection is done.
The Jacksonville Jaguars signed Quinn Gray.
The Jacksonville Jaguars are apparently in the draft market for a QB. This is pure assumption on my part but they DID send their QB coach to Delaware's pro day. It kind of tells me that they're looking for a QB. Now I did notice the dates and am not sure what they mean. I don't know when they signed Lemon or anything like that.
KFFL said:
Quinn Gray has a career day in the final game and is promply shown to the door by the Jaguars.
I don't know... I'm not exactly having warm fuzzy feelings in my stomach about Gray. I'm definitely on the 'sell Sage while his value is high' bandwagon but would have no qualms keeping him either.
It doesn't matter. Quinn Gray is going to get a ton of garbage playing time. See, Schaub is going to play all 16 games and he's going to singlehandedly show the Patriots how perfection is done.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Maybe Sage himself has expressed his thoughts on wanting a starting position. Everyone's saying what the Texans should/shouldn't do. What if it's Sage pushing the issue upon the Texans? He has stated before he wanted to be a starter, so maybe he thinks now is his best chance.
Who knows? It's just something else to toss around.
Who knows? It's just something else to toss around.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Maybe Sage himself has expressed his thoughts on wanting a starting position. Everyone's saying what the Texans should/shouldn't do. What if it's Sage pushing the issue upon the Texans? He has stated before he wanted to be a starter, so maybe he thinks now is his best chance.
Who knows? It's just something else to toss around.
I agree. No matter what is said, all of these guys have some sort of ego and want to be "the man." Unless you are a Jason Garrett type who is just uses as a nice backup. All in all I love these moves. I'd like to get a 2nd rounder somewhere...3rd if it is Gray even. I think you are right about Sage though and he might think that this is one last push to parlay last year into starting somewhere.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Exactly. Couple this with the way Gray played last year when filling in for Garrard. He didn't look like a #3 to me, he looked a lot like Sage, definite solid #2 who could start when your #1 goes down with very little drop off. There is no way we can carry these 3 QB's.
Think about it, Sage is in demand right now, we can trade him for real value. We bring in Gray to replace Sage, they are both solid QB's and are great back-ups. Here's the head scratching part, why didn't Minnesota make a play for Mr. Gray instead of giving up the hypothethical 3rd Rounder.....or there is another suitor for Sage, either way great move by Rick, yet again.
Hottoddie
Veteran
Here's a wild idea that has no basis or thought process what so ever. If Minnesota wants Sage so badly & we need a LT so badly, why not trade Sage for the troubled Bryant McKinnie? I realize it's not a fair swap, but if we could work out the particulars, would you consider it? Is he salvageable? According to this article, his cap hit wouldn't be that bad for a starting LT & Sage's $1.85 million cap hit would offset 25% of it. I'm not sure how bonus money would be transferred, but that could possibly further reduce the cost. Not likely to even be discussed, but it's food for thought.
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_8654810?nclick_check=1
One of the deterrents for clubs to release high-priced veterans is the salary cap. But if the Vikings cut or trade McKinnie, their salary-cap implications would be minimal. Not only is the club approximately $17.5 million under the cap, McKinnie's current cap number is $7.4 million. Releasing or trading him would cost the club only an additional $1.4 million.
If the Vikings are serious about moving him, they probably would have several suitors. Although he could face a suspension because of this incident NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to punish players, even without guilty pleas McKinnie plays a high-demand position, he's 28, he's extremely durable (87 consecutive starts), and he's relatively cheap (his base salary is less than $5 million through 2011). In fact, there has been speculation that the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Carolina Panthers. Among the players rumored to be discussed: defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The offensive tackle class also is considered fairly strong in the NFL draft.
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_8654810?nclick_check=1
One of the deterrents for clubs to release high-priced veterans is the salary cap. But if the Vikings cut or trade McKinnie, their salary-cap implications would be minimal. Not only is the club approximately $17.5 million under the cap, McKinnie's current cap number is $7.4 million. Releasing or trading him would cost the club only an additional $1.4 million.
If the Vikings are serious about moving him, they probably would have several suitors. Although he could face a suspension because of this incident NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to punish players, even without guilty pleas McKinnie plays a high-demand position, he's 28, he's extremely durable (87 consecutive starts), and he's relatively cheap (his base salary is less than $5 million through 2011). In fact, there has been speculation that the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Carolina Panthers. Among the players rumored to be discussed: defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The offensive tackle class also is considered fairly strong in the NFL draft.
Don't know Sage's agent. Rosenfels is not listed as a Rosenhaus client.
I think that Gray moving on may have been a mutual decision. Five seasons is a long time to spend in an organization, and not become a starter. Plus, Cleo Lemon is a similar QB to Jags starter David Garrad. The Jags won't have to put in separate game plans when the backup comes into the game.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I think someone else pointed out that maybe Gray didn't have a huge interest in playing for a cold weather team. I also think With Favre Retiring Greenbay is in need for a solid backup behind Rodgers. ATL now has 3 second rounders and to my knowledge no one they are really comfortable with starting. A mere one second for someone who might have a shot at soldifying the position while they groom someone long term might be a steal in that position. I think there could now be multiple offers for Sage hence signing Gray. We could very well get a second which we could use.
barrett
All Pro
this is no doubt a weird move. everyone has there speculation knob turned to 11. the thing that really makes this a head scratcher is need. of all the teams in the league that needed a quarterback we're near the bottom of the list. of everyone's scenarios, there are two that seem to be realistic.
A. a deal for sage is already lined up and the gray signing is with the understanding that the sage deal happens.
B. it was gray's choice. for whatever reason (call it the weather) it was a personal choice that he wanted to be here in houston.
other than those two scenarios, it's hard to find any logic behind any of it.
either way, i can't wait until the draft is over so the speculation nation can subside.
A. a deal for sage is already lined up and the gray signing is with the understanding that the sage deal happens.
B. it was gray's choice. for whatever reason (call it the weather) it was a personal choice that he wanted to be here in houston.
other than those two scenarios, it's hard to find any logic behind any of it.
either way, i can't wait until the draft is over so the speculation nation can subside.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Hehe, playing the devil's advocate, wouldn't it be a total shocker if it's Schaub that's being shopped?
I'll take Atlanta's 2nd rounders and a swap of our firsts if they want.
badboy
Hall of Fame
March 24th article by McClain in which Gray said things had not gone in free agency that he had agent had planned. Maybe other teams had not offered much better. He did have another team (Buffalo I think) scheduled but hoped he'd not have to visit there.
Hottoddie
Veteran
If Rick can pull that one off, I've got some money for him to invest in the market for me. Two 2nd's & a swap of 1st's (move down 2 spots) in exchange for three 2nd's & a swap of 1st's (move up 15 spots) for a one year rental. Not a bad return if I must say so myself.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I honestly think Houston is simply keeping it's options open. I believe they recieved an offer for Sage that they were not comfortable with from the Vikings, but I think they may have recieved other inquiries that prompted them to look into the possiblities for improving the team , wich lead to the possiblity of aquiring Gray to open their options up even further. It could also be possible that the Vikings wanted something more etched in stone and prior to the draft, and having someone like Gray around was the only way a pre-draft deal could go down. I don't think they are locked into any of this the way some here are hedging. I really don't think the Texan's front office is that compulsive. If you look at all the moves they have made to this point in the off-season, you can surmise that they are systematicly increasing their talent pool, upgrading where they can and leaving them in a very enviable position come draft day. They have covered several positions of need, in talent if not only depth and have spent very little cap doing it. The bummer to all this is , that doesnt guarantee them success on draft day, only incereases their odds some. Still smart moves though IMHO.
badboy
Hall of Fame
That is the biggest egg roll I've ever seen. Who is the Chinese guy holding it? Can you pass an egg roll?No, but saying you are keeping three when it goes against philosophy is analogous to this
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Seems like this is the way Rick Smith does business when it comes to QB's.
They didn't get rid of Carr until they had Schaub locked up. I imagine that's the same way that they'll handle the 2nd stringer as well.
This wouldn't go down unless Gray knew that he had a chance to play here.
They didn't get rid of Carr until they had Schaub locked up. I imagine that's the same way that they'll handle the 2nd stringer as well.
This wouldn't go down unless Gray knew that he had a chance to play here.
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
He signed the veteran minimum. It's impossible for another team to have offered him anything less.
I believe that Kubiak wants Rosenfels to be in a position of success, and that he would give him the chance if he were able. We have Schaub, and Rosenfels can never take that spot due to the truckload of money we are paying him.
I would love to see Rosenfels start for another team. He deserves it. Now that we have Gray I have no problems with it.
Wolf
100% Texan
"it is labrador man"
I think Rick Smith should be awarded NFL Executive of the Year if he can turn a QB who has never thrown a pass in a regular season game into a draft pick.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
If anything, what we need to do is look to Rick Smith and staff and give them a round of applause. Even if nobody goes anywhere, they basically increased the level of talent at the QB position which is the most important position on a football team.
Also, they've allowed The Texans to be fully prepared for any possible scenarios come draft day. Now The Texans wont be caught slipping if a great trade scenario comes about and we will not be handcuffed on our ability to manuever.
Also, they've allowed The Texans to be fully prepared for any possible scenarios come draft day. Now The Texans wont be caught slipping if a great trade scenario comes about and we will not be handcuffed on our ability to manuever.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
They latched onto a commodity .
Chris Brown of buffalobills.com thinks this idea is peachy keen. But, he thinks Sage is worth no more than a 4th round pick.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This isn't McKinnie's 1st brush with the law [LINK]
..........and for the type of problems he has demonstrated, it's not likely to be his last.
Besides, somehow, I don't think that the Texans would be interested in taking on the risk of a big contract (and it will ultimately be a big contract), with impending suspension, and justifiable fear of ban following a 3rd incident due to not being able to confine "violence" to the field.
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
Chris Brown of buffalobills.com thinks this idea is peachy keen. But, he thinks Sage is worth no more than a 4th round pick.
"No one is giving that up for a backup"
Uhm... hello? Matt Schaub?
alphajoker
Veteran
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
You have a great point.
I think the national media tends to downplay how good Rosenfels is and the local media is a little delusional.
I'm still amazed by this sentence in Richard Justice's missive on Rosenfels:
Wha?
Basically, it's a question of respective value.
1. Is Gray good enough to be coached up to be a respectable backup? I think the answer is yes. Justice dismissed Gray as just someone who was replaced with Cleo Lemon, but Rosenfels was in similar positions with the Redskins and later the Dolphins.
2. Is someone going to give the Texans enough value to let lose of Rosenfels? The team he would be going to would be getting a relatively cheap contract, so in some ways Rosenfels' value is higher than Schaub's in that regard.
I think that value is worth more than a third round pick in a market of really crappy quarterbacks.
Here's what I wrote on this stuff:
Quinn Gray to the Texans: Where Will Sage Rosenfels Go?
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
Great article and good points.
So here is a new question I have.
Rick Smith may say that we want to carry three veteran QBs, but most Texans fans know that that hasn't been the case. Is Rick playing some smoke and mirrors to prevent Rosenfels from losing trade value, or is he serious about having all three?
Malloy
Hall of Fame
There are many veteran QB's, it does not neccesarily has to be Quinn and Rosenfels. I smell a trade coming, and for Rosenfels sake, I hope he gets the opportunity to go somewhere and show his worth, he deserves a shot at it.
Seriously, if Kitna can (and I kinda like Kitna), Rosenfels should have a chance too
Texan in Japan
Rookie
I believe Sage will be traded. It might not happen until the draft, but more than likely he's already got several possible buyers. Signing Gray gives us protection and leverage. We can wait for the best possible deal and then execute.
I really like Rick Smith's style and savvy. The three QB rhetoric keeps Sage's value up, but also lets prospective teams know that first buyer to meet our price will get themselves a darn good QB and leader.
Daddy likes!
I really like Rick Smith's style and savvy. The three QB rhetoric keeps Sage's value up, but also lets prospective teams know that first buyer to meet our price will get themselves a darn good QB and leader.
Daddy likes!