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Breaking News: Vick Indicted

I said in my heart with regard to human beings that God is testing them to show that they are but animals. For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

ecclesiastes 3: 18-20

The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den.

isaiah 11: 6-8

The righteous know the needs of their animals, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.

proverbs 12:10
 
Elle said:
That's how Joe is. He's a good man with a good heart and won't speak out until facts proceed him. He is a team player and will stay reserved until there is something for him to fire off about.
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He didn't seem so good today. He is another logic challenged individual that was comparing dog fighting to hunting. He was obviously grasping for straws to defend his buddy Vick. I thought he sounded like a moron and lost any respect I had for him after his interview. He even hinted at a racial element, which absolutely has no legs in this story when even Jesse and Al are speaking out against it.

It's one thing to say "no comment, I'm sticking with my friend". But quite another to bring straw man arguments to the table as a defense of a felony.
 
Direct your anger at the Dog Killer.. not at each other....

I'm going out to HUNT "Moose and Squirrel"....

rockyandbullwinkle.jpg


Signed,

Boris

borisbadenov.gif
 
This topic, situation, and thread is foolish. I see since everyone is quoting the Bible as the gospel should I also remind people that it was written that "Thou shall not kill". Last time I checked the Ten Commandments there weren't any asterisks giving special stipulations to dog fighters nor "licensed hunters " (lol). Everyone needs to calm down and let the process work. Look, at this point Vick has got to be the worst evaluator of the company that he keeps. He could be convicted, yes. But he could also be exonerated, by the courts, not of public opinion. All these protests, people wanting to give him the chair, et al........ Come on, get a life.
 
What you should be comparing dog fighting to is........oh man, I hesitate to mention it but here it goes.......cat juggling.
 
Koolaid Time said:
And I don't like the way Blank is handling his $90 million dollar THUG.

And while I don't buy Atlanta Falcons season tickets... I DO own Home Depot stock that I am selling tomorrow.. and I'm sending Mr. Blank a personal letter that says:

1. I am very disappointed with how you handled the Vick situation. If the NFL isn't going to suspend this lowlife, YOU should.

2. Blanks' handling of the Vick situation has a negative reflection on his other business enterprises, a/k/a "Home Depot"..

3. I'm selling my Home Depot stock, and I'm encouraging other stockholders to do likewise.

4. From now on, I'm buying my lumber and hardware at Lowe's.. for one reason alone....

LOEW'S DOESN'T EMPLOY DOG KILLERS...

ARTHUR BLANK DOES...
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So you are going through all of that trouble for one person who allegedly fought and killed dogs. Not proven in a court of law but alleged. You know you sound like Mrs. Lanier when she was pressuring Bob McNair to draft Vince.
 
Speedy said:
What you should be comparing dog fighting to is........oh man, I hesitate to mention it but here it goes.......cat juggling.
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i had heard about that but thought it was just an urban myth.

well I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this ashtray and that's it and that's the only thing I need, is this. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this! The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this! And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.
 
kbourda said:
So you are going through all of that trouble for one person who allegedly fought and killed dogs. Not proven in a court of law but alleged. You know you sound like Mrs. Lanier when she was pressuring Bob McNair to draft Vince.
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Me thinks that wouldn't have been too bad.

I understand that he needs to be found guilty in law but the concrete facts (he owned the house) coupled with the testimony of an undercover federal agent pretty much dictate a swift move by the NFL. It's not Vick's right to be in the league. It's a private league and his behavior has already hurt the league more than could ever be estimated. He is guilty of not respecting the league and the privilege that it is to play in it.

he needs to go away for a while and fix his life and try and keep his arse out of prison. then he can worry about football. but I understand your point and agree with it on the legal side but as for his membership in the league, that is another matter. He needs to go until this mess is cleared up. It's dragging the league down into the sewer.
 
Mr teX said:
Come on Vinny, did that really get under your skin that bad? For what it's worth I apologize to all, but come on man, the way you guys are vehemently defending a sport where the end result is the same as that of dog fighting is ridiculous imo.

Yeah there are some people, who hunt b/c they need the meat & there are farms where chickens are bred exclusively for mass distribution & what not. But how can you justify the guys who hunts just to put those antlers on the wall? you can't man.

Vick's gonna get what's coming to him, I promise you all (LOL) but to go on and on and on about how cruel dog fighting is when virtually the same crap is legal for deer,duck,dove or whatever sounds a bit hypocritical.
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I have been gone al day having one crappy day and I come home to read the boards, and I would have bet anyone on here a months salary that Tex would depfend vic. I bet you would not defend this if it was Carr. Vick McNabb yes, Carr Grossman NO and anyone care to guess why?

Yep I said it. To bad I called it like I see it.

I have hunted all kinds of birds and also have hunted deer. I have eaten everything I have killed while hunting. If some prick wants to hunt bear or lion and he is not doing it for food, then they can goto hell because they are wrong.

I have also eaten frog leggs, turtle soup, squrirrel, and countless of birds. Comparing hunting (for food) with dog fighting makes as much sense as some jackass saying if rape is enivitable just sit back and enjoy it (guess which moron said that line)!

So I am not being very pc here, but holy crap how in the hell can someone say things that are so far out in outerspace it is unreal.

Hunting for food is ok
Hunting for sport is wrong
Dog fighting is wrong

Get it
Got it
Good!!!!!

:bat:
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I understand that he needs to be found guilty in law but the concrete facts (he owned the house) coupled with the testimony of an undercover federal agent pretty much dictate a swift move by the NFL. It's not Vick's right to be in the league. It's a private league and his behavior has already hurt the league more than could ever be estimated. He is guilty of not respecting the league and the privilege that it is to play in it.
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I think that is where most of the problem lies. Too often people equate a single person with a company, race, class, or whatever. Personally, Vick is his own man on an island all by himself. When I see the NFL I see the "Battle Red", the passion of the fans, the pure unadulterated ecstasy (So Al Davis for borrowing that last line) associated with it. I'm not going to let the actions of a single person's alleged suspect activity spoil that joy for me. Besides owning a house doesn't make you guilty. I know it may not be common for most people on this board but people do own property out of state. Besides it's not like Atlanta is around the corner from Virginia so I slight may believe that he may not have known about some of the activity there. But what do I know, i'm going off what I am told. As i'm sure most are doing as well but I tend to wait for the law to have their say first. I do not pass judgment on people based on popular opinion. I have my own mind.
 
Specnatz said:
Comparing hunting (for food) with dog fighting makes as much sense as some jackass saying if rape is enivitable just sit back and enjoy it (guess which moron said that line)!
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Clayton Williams.,,who blew a 10 point lead to Ma Richards in the last week before the election because of this joke.

And you know what.. its all his fault that we are stuck in Iraq...

Had he not told that joke, he would have been elected for probably 2 terms.... which means Jorge W. wouldn't have been Governor, which means......
 
kbourda said:
This topic, situation, and thread is foolish. I see since everyone is quoting the Bible as the gospel should I also remind people that it was written that "Thou shall not kill". Last time I checked the Ten Commandments there weren't any asterisks giving special stipulations to dog fighters nor "licensed hunters " (lol). Everyone needs to calm down and let the process work. Look, at this point Vick has got to be the worst evaluator of the company that he keeps. He could be convicted, yes. But he could also be exonerated, by the courts, not of public opinion. All these protests, people wanting to give him the chair, et al........ Come on, get a life.
Click to expand...

Contrary to popular belief that you can "indict a ham sandwich", in the federal court in which Vick will be tried they have a 99% conviction rate of indicted felons. 99%, that's nothing to sneeze at, these people do not indict on flimsy evidence, they have their ducks in a row and all facing the same direction. I think some of Vicks "Buds" and cousins are turning states evidence on him.

Let's look at some of the things we do know about Vick, He's from Virginia, he used the signing bonus for when he became a Falcon to buy this house. He BUILT the out buildings in which dogs are trained and fought and painted all the buildings black. There are bones of dead dogs buried there. There is a pit for fighting and blood all over the place. Vick is known to be a frequent visitor and informants say he is a big man in the dog fighting world, a "money man" if you will.

In this VERY Big expensive house live Vicks friends and cousins who are on public assistance, who pays the bills? You can't live in a house like that on welfare. Vick is known for his poor decision making processes on and off the field, we have the "Ron Mexico" incident, the bottle incident in the airport, the "flipping off the fans on national tv" incident and the not showing up when he was supposed to visit congress. Vicks parents had him when they were teenagers and he rarely saw or spent time with his father, the guy had no guidance growing up, he and his brother both are lacking in moral character.

Read the 18 page indictment of Vick and it will make you sick to your stomach. Yes, he deserves his day in court but he does not deserve to play anymore in the NFL. He's had one chance too many. I spent the first two or three years Vick was a Falcon defending him against friends of mine who said he would never be a quality quarter back in the NFL because a) he wasn't smart enough and b) he was a thug and would find a way to screw things up. Well they were right and I was wrong. Michael Vick is an embarrasment to this City and to the Falcons and to the NFL. He should step down or be suspended pending the outcome of his trial, at this point he is nothing but a distraction to the team. It's going to be a media circus down here when the Falcons begin practice with all the protestors demanding his suspension and all the media attention.

I'm late getting in to this thread so I don't know what the reference to people wanting Vick to get the "chair" is all about, I certainly don't think he should be executed but he should step down until this situation passes and if he is convicted he should never play in the NFL again and if he pleads out he also should still never play in the NFL again, he should spend the rest of his days on earth cleaning out the cages at the local animal shelter.

I'm not a "PETA" type person, I love animals but I'm not an activist. But I think anyone who can abuse an innocent animal like Vick is accused of doing is has deep psychological problems and probably is capable of extreme violence to people as well. You can't have a conscious at all and do those things. Hang dogs, wet dogs and electocute them and beat them to death, not to mention the fights themselves and the cruelty involved there. You can't have your head screwed on straight and do those things.
 
Mr teX said:
Meat is not needed to survive guy, furthermore hunting/killing deer/duck or whatever for "sport" isn't a "social redeeming quality" either. & if it's just the the food chain at work, I guess you'd be ok with a homeless guy cooking up a black lab on the side of the freeway b/c he needs something to eat right?
Yeah, it's illegal & that's about all anyone can say about it, but don't give me this morals garbage about how watching dogs kill each for sport is any less moral than bringing an unsuspecting deer into your crossaires.

& no i'm not a vegan, which is why i could care less about dogs being killed in dog fights strictly for money & entertainment. I only brought it up b/c of the double standard of society.
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I have been told that there is nothing illegal about killing a dog for food.

Killing a dog for food is not considered inhumane.

I've also been told that certain cultures in the US still do this.

Me?....I'll stick with a good steak.

It is illegal to train dogs to fight each other while making bets on the outcome.

It is also illegal not to report any winnings on these bets as income.

Bank robbery is illegal. Guess I shouldn't care if it isn't my bank, doesn't affect me?

As long as we are a country of laws, they must/should be enforced.

Nowhere does it say we have to agree with the laws before obeying them.

Vick is not accused of having bad morals...he is accused of breaking the law.

I know..he hasn't been convicted ..yet.

Life is full of double standards, (opinions in disguise).. but that doesn't change the facts when laws are broken.

:coffee:
 
Well, the sympathizers for Vick have said it's cultural.
Perhaps then it's time for some good ole southern cultural justice.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is a classic straw man argument. You are trying to justify a felony with legal activity.
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That's only half of his straw man, what he's trying to do is say that it is hypocritical morally to support killing of game animals on one hand and to not support fighting dogs on the other hand. It's a totally specious argument lacking in any logical thought or moral foundation whatsoever. It is an argument of desperation made only by those trying to support an unsuppportable position but it has the advantage of being unanswerable with logic in the same way it is impossible to answer the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife". Because once you make a statement based upon a false premise and lacking in logic you are free, once having travelled down that road, to continue on making no sense whatever.
:user:
 
Red_Zone said:
Read the 18 page indictment of Vick and it will make you sick to your stomach.
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Thanks for providing the link Vinny, it was late and I didn't have time to look for it.

For anyone who missed it the first time ^there it is again^. For those with weak stomachs do not eat for two hours before or after reading please unless you have a barf bag close at hand. :tearup: :shocked
 
Dogfighting is as cultural to the south as holding slaves. This isn't "culture". This is an illegal activity. It's sad that people line up to throw out excuses for their favorite players even when their activities are repulsive.
 
On a lighter note.

I need clarification:

Can I still take live crawfish and throw them into a big pot of boiling seasoned water loaded with potatoes, onions, mushrooms and corn on the cob.....idonno:

Remember now. I'm a coon*** and it's a cultural thing...:D



:coffee: (seaport dark roast..please)
 
not a direct statement to you Elle...just an overview as to the "cultural" thing imo. I know he isn't your fav player.
 
cuppacoffee said:
On a lighter note.

I need clarification:

Can I still take live crawfish and throw them into a big pot of boiling seasoned water loaded with potatoes, onions, mushrooms and corn on the cob.....idonno:

Remember now. I'm a coon*** and it's a cultural thing...:D



:coffee: (seaport dark roast..please)
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I would be worried if you did not do that.
 
cuppacoffee said:
On a lighter note.

I need clarification:

Can I still take live crawfish and throw them into a big pot of boiling seasoned water loaded with potatoes, onions, mushrooms and corn on the cob.....idonno:

Remember now. I'm a coon*** and it's a cultural thing...:D



:coffee: (seaport dark roast..please)
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You can do that because it's quick and virtually painless death. But you can't train them to fight each other to the death, strap them to a rape stand, and then slowly turn the heat up to a boil. That would be all kinds of wrong.
 
Rome had a good point about killing the dogs. If you have to go Old Yeller on them, then do it as quick and humanely possible with a bullet to the head.

And this is the crux of the biscuit; There is a brutality to the way these dogs were treated, the choice to deal torture on them, and the sick way that it seems to be entertaining to the these men.

There is something very twisted...dare I say evil...about choosing to inflict pain on another living being against it's will and for the sole purpose of pleasure to the perpetuator. I think this is the element that truly grabs your soul about this story and demands justice and retribution.
 
Double Barrel said:
Rome had a good point about killing the dogs. If you have to go Old Yeller on them, then do it as quick and humanely possible with a bullet to the head.

And this is the crux of the biscuit; There is a brutality to the way these dogs were treated, the choice to deal torture on them, and the sick way that it seems to be entertaining to the these men.

There is something very twisted...dare I say evil...about choosing to inflict pain on another living being against it's will and for the sole purpose of pleasure to the perpetuator. I think this is the element that truly grabs your soul about this story and demands justice and retribution.
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You must spread some reputation around before...
 
The next question is: Can we throw a dog into a very large pot of soup?

I'm gonna have to say no, unless we give them painkillers and some kind of oxygen mask for dogs. Uh, it might taste a little hairy though.
 
Double Barrel said:
Rome had a good point about killing the dogs. If you have to go Old Yeller on them, then do it as quick and humanely possible with a bullet to the head.

And this is the crux of the biscuit; There is a brutality to the way these dogs were treated, the choice to deal torture on them, and the sick way that it seems to be entertaining to the these men.

There is something very twisted...dare I say evil...about choosing to inflict pain on another living being against it's will and for the sole purpose of pleasure to the perpetuator. I think this is the element that truly grabs your soul about this story and demands justice and retribution.
Click to expand...


BINGO DB!!
 
Elle said:
No, no. You misunderstand why I posted that. I'm not defending Vick so much as I'm talking about regional things that folks in the U.S. of A. do and accept. That's why I mention having multiple wives. That's totally unacceptable. So is turtle soup. So is escargot and caviar, yet it's ok to those who grew up with those things.

No, Vick isn't my favorite NFL player. Tiki Barber was, now I guess I'm tied between Joe Horn and Mike McKenzie. It's gonna suck having to see them play twice this year. Will Joe be healthy and faster? Will Mike become more focused? Will Mike beat his mentor or will the heart that beat for the both of them outrun his student?
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Don't know how you go from Tiki Barber a totally quality person, to Joe Horn who said on a local radio station recently that he would want his children to grow up just like Michael Vick. Heard it with my own two ears.

edit: Afraid I have some bad news for you Elle,
" Horn's brother Darian works as an assistant to Vice President Dick Cheney. " Wikipedia on Joe Horn
 
Vinny said:
Dogfighting is as cultural to the south as holding slaves. This isn't "culture". This is an illegal activity. It's sad that people line up to throw out excuses for their favorite players even when their activities are repulsive.
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Exactly, I've lived in the south here in Georgia all my life and I know of a lot of things that are considered "Southern culture", but I wouldn't say one of them is dog fighting. I might accept that dog fighting is "prevalent" in the south but cultural suggests a much broader acceptance and participation. I don't think dog fighting is either accepted on a wide basis or participated in here in any broad sense. I've moved in and out of just about every racial and financial class through out my life and never encountered dog fighting. I have known a few who enjoy **** fighting which I also think is cruel and barbaric, but not dog fighting.

Since dog fighting is a felony in 47 states as well as the District of Colombia, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico I think it has been fairly well spread around the country and not just in the south .
 
To further my point about culture (and Vinny's);

The culture of dogfighting is as diverse as America itself. Dogfighters come from virtually all walks of life and engage in the blood sport at vastly different levels. Some fighters operate on a national or even international level within highly clandestine networks. These fighters are professionals that breed generations of skilled “game dogs," take a great deal of pride in the lineage of their dogs and charge tremendous stud fees to breed their champions. They publish trade journals for distribution to dogfighting enthusiasts around the world.[26] The journals, with names like Your Friend and Mine, Game Dog Times, The American Warrior, and The Pit Bull Chronicle, include information on recent fights including the winners and losers, and advertisements for training equipment and puppies. [27] One of the largest and most widely recognized, The Sporting Dog Journal, circulates over 10,000 copies worldwide.[28] Because the professional fighters are so geographically dispersed, they also utilize the internet to communicate with one another. The “cyber-dogmen” maintain websites that to the untrained eye appear to be networks of breeders or “game dog” fanciers. They often go so far as to publish legal disclaimers on the websites, maintaining that they do not condone dogfighting and the information should be “viewed as fiction” and utilized “for entertainment purposes only.”[29] The websites typically include specific information on the lineage of the dogs, historic accounts of dog-fighting that glorify anonymous, deceased, or ‘retired’ dog-men, and message boards for enthusiasts to discuss everything from buying and training champion fighting dogs to veterinary tips on treating wounded dogs.[30] Professional fighters are wealthy and experienced, often investing thousands of dollars on buying and training their dogs, and on transport to the fight venues. [31] The fights are extremely well organized and difficult for law enforcement to find.[32] Participants and spectators are often not told where the venues are until moments before the fight. “Gaining access to these circles is extremely hard,” says Eric Sakach, Director of the West Coast Regional Office of the Humane Society of the United States.[33]
Click to expand...
Link
 
Specnatz said:
I have been gone al day having one crappy day and I come home to read the boards, and I would have bet anyone on here a months salary that Tex would depfend vic. I bet you would not defend this if it was Carr. Vick McNabb yes, Carr Grossman NO and anyone care to guess why?

Yep I said it. To bad I called it like I see it.

I have hunted all kinds of birds and also have hunted deer. I have eaten everything I have killed while hunting. If some prick wants to hunt bear or lion and he is not doing it for food, then they can goto hell because they are wrong.

I have also eaten frog leggs, turtle soup, squrirrel, and countless of birds. Comparing hunting (for food) with dog fighting makes as much sense as some jackass saying if rape is enivitable just sit back and enjoy it (guess which moron said that line)!

So I am not being very pc here, but holy crap how in the hell can someone say things that are so far out in outerspace it is unreal.

Hunting for food is ok
Hunting for sport is wrong
Dog fighting is wrong

Get it
Got it
Good!!!!!

:bat:
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First of all, i'm not defending vick, like all of the sports radio & tv pundits, he's at least a moron for not knowing what was going on on his property.

Secondly, I don't know where you stay or how you live your life so maybe going out to hunt for food is what has to be done on a regular basis for you & your family; Some people still choose to live that way. But again like i told the others, you are going to have a very difficult time convincing me that the average middle american who lives within the city limits, goes hunting strictly for food.

Not when he/she essentially doesn't have to since he/she lives within at least 2 miles of a grocery store or a butcher's shop & not when this crap is being glorified on cable television. Furthermore, you don't need meat to survive, much less venison or veal or whatever it's called.


Some of these guys make the mistake & think that just b/c i don't shed a tear or feel in some way compassionate about what happens to these dogs in dog fighting that i am condoning it, & nothing could be further from the truth. I've admitted i'm not a vegan, i eat meat like nobody's business, & with the luxury of eating all these great choice meats i realize that theres an ugly side that also comes with the killing of these animals. But to act like there is absolutely no parallel to deer hunting & dog fighting for the sake of entertainment is ridiculous. Hell we already have various animals rounded up on farms & slaughterhouses to satisfy our need for meat, why does deer/duck have to be another? Why do the overwhelming majority of hunters go to the deers home & hunt them?

& yeah, hunters aim for a 1 shot kill, but dead is dead regardless.

No one wants to answer those questions, they only want to say "well at least some good is coming from it b/c people eat the meat" which doesn't entirely justify it IMO b/c of what i said above in my post.
 
Mr teX said:
First of all, i'm not defending vick, like all of the sports radio & tv pundits, he's at least a moron for not knowing what was going on on his property.

Secondly, I don't know where you stay or how you live your life so maybe going out to hunt for food is what has to be done on a regular basis for you & your family; Some people still choose to live that way. But again like i told the others, you are going to have a very difficult time convincing me that the average middle american who lives within the city limits, goes hunting strictly for food.

[B]Not when he/she essentially doesn't have to since he/she lives within at least 2 miles of a grocery store or a butcher's shop & not when this crap is being glorified on cable television.[/B] Furthermore, you don't need meat to survive, much less venison or veal or whatever it's called.


Some of these guys make the mistake & think that just b/c i don't shed a tear or feel in some way compassionate about what happens to these dogs in dog fighting that i am condoning it, & nothing could be further from the truth. I've admitted i'm not a vegan, i eat meat like nobody's business, & with the luxury of eating all these great choice meats i realize that theres an ugly side that also comes with the killing of these animals. But to act like there is absolutely no parallel to deer hunting & dog fighting for the sake of entertainment is ridiculous. Hell we already have various animals rounded up on farms & slaughterhouses to satisfy our need for meat, why does deer/duck have to be another? Why do the overwhelming majority of hunters go to the deers home & hunt them?
& yeah, hunters aim for a 1 shot kill, but dead is dead regardless.

No one wants to answer those questions, they only want to say "well at least some good is coming from it b/c people eat the meat" which doesn't entirely justify it IMO b/c of what i said above in my post.
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So I should not hunt because they sell it in a gorcery store or a butcher shop? I am sure deer or hogs just walk into a butcher shop on a daily basis and they are not hunted for food or killed for the meat. Your right I do not need venison or fish or pheasant to survive and you do not an mp3 player or a color tv. But if it is what you like then you have to go out and get it. Yes there are cows and pigs raised for food, but they taste completely different than venison. Besides if no one hunted them they would destroy another part of the eco system if they grew to an over population. So hunting them helps the enviroment.

There are hunting shows because people watch and learn what other hunters do so they can better perform. Comparing hunting deer to dog fighting is kinda funny to me. You are comparing an illeagal activity with a legal one.

As far as why hunters go to where the deer live to hunt them, well that is easy. Because they would not be able to kill a deer standing on Congress Ave in downtown Houston. If deer came to the hunters then it would not be called hunting.

It is not about justifying or saying at least some good is coming out of the kill. Hunting should only be about killing for the sake of either providing food or protecting oneself. The same with fishing, I do not fish just to catch and release I keep what I catch and cook it.

From your previous comments I took it as you defending vick. But you are sure wanting to deflect what he did onto something that is not relavent. Mentioning something completely different does nothing for the case at hand.


Stay on point.
 
Specnatz said:
So I should not hunt because they sell it in a gorcery store or a butcher shop? I am sure deer or hogs just walk into a butcher shop on a daily basis and they are not hunted for food or killed for the meat. Your right I do not need venison or fish or pheasant to survive and you do not an mp3 player or a color tv. But if it is what you like then you have to go out and get it. Yes there are cows and pigs raised for food, but they taste completely different than venison. Besides if no one hunted them they would destroy another part of the eco system if they grew to an over population. So hunting them helps the enviroment.

There are hunting shows because people watch and learn what other hunters do so they can better perform. Comparing hunting deer to dog fighting is kinda funny to me. You are comparing an illeagal activity with a legal one.

As far as why hunters go to where the deer live to hunt them, well that is easy. Because they would not be able to kill a deer standing on Congress Ave in downtown Houston. If deer came to the hunters then it would not be called hunting.

It is not about justifying or saying at least some good is coming out of the kill. Hunting should only be about killing for the sake of either providing food or protecting oneself. The same with fishing, I do not fish just to catch and release I keep what I catch and cook it.

From your previous comments I took it as you defending vick. But you are sure wanting to deflect what he did onto something that is not relavent. Mentioning something completely different does nothing for the case at hand.

The fact of the matter is, it is relatively unecessary blood shed for whatever reason whether that be for entertainment, sport, money or as you simply just stated above, b/c you just want the choice venison meat. The majority of hunters go hunt b/c they enjoy it not b/c they "need" the meat.


Is dog fighting a heck of alot more cruel than hunting? of course it is, If anything you guys have made that ABUNDANTLY clear but to me, that's like saying serial killer A is alot more demented than serial killer B b/c he didn't torture his victims before he killed them. So what he still killed them! Again, death is death regardless of the good "will" or "intentions" of the hunter. You guys fail to see that b/c you think that i'm attacking you as a person just b/c you might like to hunt or that you love dogs.

Dogs, deer, rabbit whatever they are all just animals to me & i would feel just the same way if Vick had been found to have been running a frickin turtle fighting ring.
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cuppacoffee said:
On a lighter note.

I need clarification:

Can I still take live crawfish and throw them into a big pot of boiling seasoned water loaded with potatoes, onions, mushrooms and corn on the cob.....idonno:

Remember now. I'm a coon*** and it's a cultural thing...:D



:coffee: (seaport dark roast..please)
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How could a person take live crawfish, and first throw salt of all things on them, and after then kick from the burns, add insult to injury by throwing them in a pot of boiling water with more hot seasoning. Oh, yea, if the tails don't curl, they aren't fit to eat. After all of that, people gather and celebrate as they peel the tail and suck the head. WOW! Pass the bucket!

On a more serious note, I will reserve comments about Vick directly until the legal process plays out. However, I don't understand the excitement or sport in watching dogs or anything else for that matter fight until mutilation or death. In fact, even though I have watched boxing, but as a spectator, have never been able to personally appreaciate the sport as the box office or fans have embraced.
 
LMBH said:
How could a person take live crawfish, and first throw salt of all things on them, and after then kick from the burns, add insult to injury by throwing them in a pot of boiling water with more hot seasoning. Oh, yea, if the tails don't curl, they aren't fit to eat. After all of that, people gather and celebrate as they peel the tail and suck the head. WOW! Pass the bucket!

On a more serious note, I will reserve comments about Vick directly until the legal process plays out. However, I don't understand the excitement or sport in watching dogs or anything else for that matter fight until mutilation or death. In fact, even though I have watched boxing, but as a spectator, have never been able to personally appreaciate the sport as the box office or fans have embraced.
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At least in boxing the competitors have a choice as to whether they want to participate if they want to and no one pours water on them and electocutes them if they lose or perform badly.
 
Red_Zone said:
At least in boxing the competitors have a choice as to whether they want to participate if they want to and no one pours water on them and electocutes them if they lose or perform badly.
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True, but it's still a very brutal "sport." I recall when Mohammed Ali was drop dead gorgeous, very mobile, quick wit and extremely talkative.
 
kbourda said:
This topic, situation, and thread is foolish. I see since everyone is quoting the Bible as the gospel should I also remind people that it was written that "Thou shall not kill". Last time I checked the Ten Commandments there weren't any asterisks giving special stipulations to dog fighters nor "licensed hunters " (lol). Everyone needs to calm down and let the process work. Look, at this point Vick has got to be the worst evaluator of the company that he keeps. He could be convicted, yes. But he could also be exonerated, by the courts, not of public opinion. All these protests, people wanting to give him the chair, et al........ Come on, get a life.
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Probably more fitting for the another forum but I can't let this one go unanswered...

The commandment is refering to the murder of a person, not the killing of animals.
 
Elle said:
I learned about Joe Horn from the best source....himself. In 2005, he carried his team very well, and I found him to be a very nice person. Don't know what to say about the comment he made about his kids....and I didn't know about his brother. His brother should be shot.
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I couldn't resist yanking your chain a bit about Horn and his brother. There's no question he's a talented athlete, so is Vick. But what concerns me is the ability of these guys to make quality life decisions. Horn is a very new Atlanta Falcon and I'm sure he wants to play ball with Vick, we'd all love to have seen this but we must draw the line somewhere. Horn is what we call an "enabler", he is the type person evidently that morals and character don't mean a whole lot to as long as he gets what he wants. Evidently he'd say anything in defense of Vick if he thought it would help his team mate and get them back to "normal". It's not gonna work, enablers never help they only aggravate the prpoblem and postpone the inevitable.

There was a big article in the Atlanta paper here yesterday that revealed a lot about Vicks past activities which evidently go far beyond what has been widely reported on. For instance during the bottle incident at the airport one of his buddies stole a watch from a security officer. Vick promised to make good on the watch but never did. Vick loaned his vehicle to two friends who got caught with drugs in the vehicle. Vick refuses to distance himself from his thug past and drug dealing homies and he involves himself in one of the most violent and cruel sports one can imagine. Vick doesn't deserve to be an NFL player and if Horn doesn't shut the heck up soon he's going to make a complete fool of himself.

I'm sorry for you that one of your sports heroes turned out to be of such low character where the rubber meets the road.


Last year, my neighbors rented their home to a family with 2 pitbulls, both female. The younger one was pretty much killed by the older one right in front of about 10 of us. Out of nowhewre the attack came and it was horrid. Still very vivid in my head. There was no stopping that dog once she went nuts. 3 adults in their yard tried to break it up and then once it was over, my sister and I called our vet at home for him to open his office. His wife is the vet surgeon of the pair, but they couldn't save the dog. The next day, the animal control people took the other one and she was also put down. It is beyond me that anyone would pay to see that.

Hell, the most brutality I can handle is football and Lifetime Movies.
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Pit bulls as a breed are so inbred that they are dangerous to be around for anyone. They will turn on you I don't care if they've been a beloved family pet for many years. They should be banned from city and urban dwellings all together. Anyone owning one should be held to account for any violence done by their dogs. Frankly it wouldn't bother me if they were all humanely euthanised and done away with entirely.Hardly a week goes by that we don't hear some horror story involving a Pit Bull and a small child or senior citizen. Let the hip hop nation find a new mascot, these dogs need to be outlawed.
 
Calssifying any animal based on breed is not right. You just put all pit-bulls into one lump some. I have owned a pit and it was a very sweet and lovable dog. Sensationalism in journalism is rampant so you get you info that makes headlines not from actual research, and you want them destroyed. This has been done with the human race as well, lack of education rearing its head yet again.

It would not make the news if a poodle attacked someone but it would if a pit did.
 
Elle said:
I wouldn't call Joe an enabler. Really, if you met him, you'd understand my POV a bit better. When they were here, I asked a player for a keepsake. He apologized and refused because he was giving it to Joe. Joe kept him centered during a really bad time. I have a video of Joe talking this particular player out of a really bad spot during a game. It has audio on it. I didn't hear what he's said about Vick, and can't comment unless I actually hear it or see a verified transcript. It;s not that I don't believe you. I would just need to hear what you did in order to comment further.

I had hoped that, as athletes, Horn and Vick could have played together. Catching passes from NFL QB cousins is rare.

You know how I am regarding a Saint.;)

And I agree about pit bulls. There is at least one incident per month in SA where one went nuts.
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I know Horn was a Saint before coming here but I don't know a lot about him other than reading his bio (which is impressive admittedly). I haven't watched him play much, so I'm judging him based on what I've heard in interviews lately on ESPN radio here in Atlanta. I would like your opinion on what he said so below is a link to the audio of the interview I mentioned where Horn says he wants his kids to emulate Mike Vick and use him as a role model. It's near the end of the interview though because the talk to Joe about other stuff. On my computer the link open in itunes so if you have that you should be able to listen, if you don't I'm not sure.

Buck and Kincade w/Falcons Wide Receiver Joe Horn Audio

The guy asking most of the questions is John Kincade Sports talk host of a daily sports talk broadcast he does with former Georgia Bulldog Quarterback Buck Belew (sp?).
 
Specnatz said:
Calssifying any animal based on breed is not right. You just put all pit-bulls into one lump some. I have owned a pit and it was a very sweet and lovable dog. Sensationalism in journalism is rampant so you get you info that makes headlines not from actual research, and you want them destroyed. This has been done with the human race as well, lack of education rearing its head yet again.

It would not make the news if a poodle attacked someone but it would if a pit did.
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I guarantee you it would make news if a poodle attacked someone because it would be very unusual for that to happen. You hear about Pits a lot because a lot of Pits attack people and children, it happens almost every day and many times it is that "Sweet" family pet everyone said would never hurt a fly that goes bonkers and kills someones five year old daughter or grandaughter or next door neighbor. Anyone who owns a pit is playing with fire and you are gambling your families lives on a dog with a killer gene.
 
Koolaid Time said:
This isn't fun...

Catjuggling.JPG
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Ok, just got to let you know that I came very close to removing this. I debated for a long time about it and eventually chose to let it stay based on your excellent past behavior.

You're walking a fine line there Koolaid so be careful. Many of our younger, more sensitive members might be irreparably harmed by images of cat juggling so don't add to this already dangerous and controversial subject.


This is a family board. We don't want to be seen as endorsing or promoting this "activity".
 
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