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Breaking News: Vick Indicted

gwallaia said:
Vick Scmick, I heard Vince Young can beat up pit bulls with his bare hands.
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I doubt this one.
attachmentphpeq7.jpg
Genetic Mutation Dog.
 
Elle said:
So, hopefully, the team will make a comment soon, TC will begin, life goes on until something very substantial is released. Otherwise, we will just be chasing our tails by posting further. I think we all agree, except for SWT, that dog fighting is horrid and illegal. But, some of us have little faith in a judicial system that allows pardons that go out to Gov't persons while others get nailed. Popping a CIA agent to the world is ok, but dogfights, well......
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This is where I think we are going completely wrong in society. People are more concerned about politics than what is right or wrong.

Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. Coincidentally, the same thing Clinton came up against in the Lewinsky thing. My point is, he has not been convicted of outing a CIA agent.

So, maybe Libby should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding innocence since he hasn't been convicted of that crime (treason and basically outing a CIA agent)?

Geez, the Bush issue seems to trape into every aspect of our society and for reasons to not do the right thing because proving a political point is more important.
 
BattleRedToro said:
Is that a real photo or did someone manipulate it with a computer?
If it is a real photo, that is one strange looking dog.
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Article:

This is a real dog.. she has a genetic defect(I wish I had) that makes her more muscular
Breed : whippet



People mistake her for a pitbull with a pinhead, but Wendy the whippet is one rare breed.

So rare that the Central Saanich dog recently graced the New York Times. She also had several of her photos shown on The Today Show, all because of a rare genetic mutation that has led to her being the Incredible Hulk of dogs.

Wendy is a 27-kilogram rippling mass of muscle. Forget the so-called six-pack stomach: Wendy has a 24-pack. And the muscles around her neck are so thick, they look like a lion's ruff.



Wendy the Whippet has a genetic disorder that has resulted in an exceptionally muscular appearance.
Bruce Stotesbury, Times Colonist

Email to a friend


People have referred to her as Arnold Schwarzenegger," says doting owner Ingrid Hansen, stroking Wendy's sleek black coat and white chest.

Wendy was recently part of a genetics study done in the U.S. on mutation in the myostatin gene in whippets, which resemble greyhounds in appearance. The National Institute of Health study reported that whippets with one single defective copy of the gene have increased muscle mass that can enhance racing performance in the breed, known for speeds up to 60 kilometres an hour.

But whippets with two mutated copies of the gene become "double-muscled," like Wendy. It has been seen before in one human, and also in mice, cattle and sheep, says the study.

The uber-muscled whippets are called "bullies," not because of their nature -- Wendy likes nothing better than a good back scratch and isn't shy about sitting in your lap to ask for one -- but because of their size. She's about twice the weight of an average whippet, but with the same height and small narrow head -- and the same size heart and lungs, which means she probably won't live as long as normal whippets.

Hansen has had Wendy, now four, since she bought the dog from a Shawnigan Lake breeder when she was eight months old.

Wendy landed in clover. She lives on an acreage, runs around with other dogs and horses, sleeps on Hansen's bed and pretty much anywhere else she wants to.

People are often afraid when the muscle-bound dog runs up to them on her dainty whippet-thin legs, but they soon realize she's friendly, Hansen said.
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As far as I know it's real.
 
hollywood_texan said:
This is where I think we are going completely wrong in society. People are more concerned about politics than what is right or wrong.

Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. Coincidentally, the same thing Clinton came up against in the Lewinsky thing. My point is, he has not been convicted of outing a CIA agent.

So, maybe Libby should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding innocence since he hasn't been convicted of that crime (treason and basically outing a CIA agent)?

Geez, the Bush issue seems to trape into every aspect of our society and for reasons to not do the right thing because proving a political point is more important.
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Agreed. Can we not leave politics at the door and just talk about football and its periphery?
 
Was trolling err listening to 2LiveStews sports radio talk show in Atlanta. They were talking that there has been an undercover federal agent working the whole thing for 3 years. So this would provide the feds with an impeccable witness and they would no longer rely on the testimony of the other defendants and/or known criminals.

So 4 people named as witnesses in the indictment with none of them being any of the 3 defendants and one of them being an undercover officer. Sounds pretty bad to me for Vick. Now the other 3 people defendants named could be turned against Vick and would only strengthen an already formidable case by the prosecution.

From what NFLN's sources are saying it sounds like the Falcons are going to let it ride and let Vick play until it becomes a distraction or public sentiment demands it. I wonder if Nike and his other endorsements will stand by him?
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Was trolling err listening to 2LiveStews sports radio talk show in Atlanta. They were talking that there has been an undercover federal agent working the whole thing for 3 years. So this would provide the feds with an impeccable witness and they would no longer rely on the testimony of the other defendants and/or known criminals.

So 4 people named as witnesses in the indictment with none of them being any of the 3 defendants and one of them being an undercover officer. Sounds pretty bad to me for Vick. Now the other 3 people defendants named could be turned against Vick and would only strengthen an already formidable case by the prosecution.

From what NFLN's sources are saying it sounds like the Falcons are going to let it ride and let Vick play until it becomes a distraction or public sentiment demands it. I wonder if Nike and his other endorsements will stand by him?
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I heard the same thing.. one of the "CW" referenced in the Indictment is an undercover Federal Agent. Also heard that there is a videotape of a 2003 dog fight with Vick present where someone scremed "Hey, Mike Vick"... as referenced in Paragraph 68 of the Indictment.
 
swtbound07 said:
my point exactly. he walked. here is a side question for ya'll....ya'll seem to keep throwing this 95 percent conviction rate at me. do you think that 95 percent of the people the government throws up there are guilty? you have a lot of faith in a really crappy organization. i don't assume they are accurate in prosecuting vick just because they are the government.
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I don't think OJ's was a federal case, it was more like LA county IIRC?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/Simpsonaccount.htm

Now if you want to talk 95% conviction rate, you can ask Jamal Lewis

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...8,0,6008860.story?coll=bal-football-storyutil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/us_sport/4141362.stm

But don't let facts get in the way.

Vick may never see the inside of a jail cell IF found guility, but it is not looking very good at all, and it certainly will take a lot of fines to keep him out. And the Commish doesn't need a conviction to suspend him.
 
Another problem for Vick has been discussed at..

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion."

The feds even got big Al for not paying his taxes. :money:


:coffee:
 
cuppacoffee said:
Another problem for Vick has been discussed at..

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion."

The feds even got big Al for not paying his taxes. :money:


:coffee:
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no doubt. in the end with fines, legal fees, and lost wages/returned signing bonus prorated, Vick should be out upwards of $40 million.

Hope it was all worth it Vick.......what a waste
 
Elle said:
And you know what? If I had to go through voir dire I wouldn't lie either. The book usually gets me kicked out. I'm a teacher and a coach for this FINE state of Texas. I don't want to end up on a jury for a case against a former student...LOL (j/k, but you never know) and I can't take the time away from THAT civic duty to perform another. I really would tell the truth. But, that plays into my own morality and current job status. I don't lie to people. I hate liars.

Frankly, I don't see the people in VA or GA being totally honest here. We could all bet one penny that someone would lie and we'd probably all win the penny.
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So you get selected for jury duty often enough, and dismissed for possessing a Grisham novel often enough, that you can use the phrase "the book usually gets me kicked out"?
Sorry Elle, either you have incredibly bad luck being selected so often, or your spinning tall tales. No offense...
 
Ok I'm a bit lazy and not going to read 12 pages. I got through about 2 and thought to myself, as a Texan if Vick is found guilty and the League bars him from the league who will in fact be the Falcons QB. I mean hell we took their back up. I'm kinda releived to say that even though Texans have made some mistakes this may be the best acquistion of all times by totally screwing the Falcons. They will have to start a 3rd string QB, or pick up duanta cullpepper. Which is fine hopefully Mario can put him on his back. So... in retrospect who is Vicks back up and how good is he?
 
michaelm said:
So you get selected for jury duty often enough, and dismissed for possessing a Grisham novel often enough, that you can use the phrase "the book usually gets me kicked out"?
Sorry Elle, either you have incredibly bad luck being selected so often, or your spinning tall tales. No offense...
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That is one of the crazy things about Texas Jury Duty exemptions... If you are a STUDENT at a public or private high school or you are enrolled and attend college, you are exempt from Jury Duty....

But TEACHERS are not exempt...
 
Remember how this story broke in the first place..

The Vick cousin/ relative that lived in the house was arrested on a drug charge and the police obtained a search warrant for the house...

(By the way, notice that the two residents of the house are not any of the 4 individuals indicted? Maybe they have already rolled over on "Cousin Ookie" to save their own skins.)

While searching, police found the rape stands, pits, treadmills, pry bars and a bunch of pit bulls on the property.

In the weeks that followed ESPN, etc. ran stories about supposed videotapes existing showing Vick at dog fights etc. I'm pretty sure these videos were made as part of the ongoing Fed Investigation that the locals stumbled onto.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...hDubYF?slug=jc-vick051407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Gerald Poindexter, the doofus District Attorney for Surry County, that WANTED to give Vick a pass, made statements like "I havn't seen this, or I havn't spoken to the investigators" etc. Poindexter was doing his best to sweep everything under the rug.

IMO, Poindexter is just as bad as Mike Nifong.

In Early May, Surry County officials secured a search warrant based on an informant's tip about dogs being buried on the property, but Poindexter never executed it because he said he had "concerns with the wording of the document."

On June 7, the day that warrant expired, federal officials executed their own warrant issued through the US District Court, Eastern District of Virginia, with the help of Virginia State Police investigators.

DoJ/Feds doesn't like to share its info on investigations with the locals unless it has to. Its obvious the Feds didn't trust Poindexter.. nor should they.

Only July 7, the Feds were back out at the property, digging some more. The documents made public in connection with this warrant sounds pretty close to the statements later used in "Ookie's" Indictment.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourtur...tart=121&sid=669cd811eb14fb9e14b336af1427c283

Here is a pretty good synposis of the events

http://www.profootballtalk.com/VickInvestigation.htm

bewareofvick.jpg
 
swtbound07 said:
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.
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Are you as certain on this as you were with Carr being a Texan in 2007?
 
Andrew6 said:
Ok I'm a bit lazy and not going to read 12 pages. I got through about 2 and thought to myself, as a Texan if Vick is found guilty and the League bars him from the league who will in fact be the Falcons QB. I mean hell we took their back up. I'm kinda releived to say that even though Texans have made some mistakes this may be the best acquistion of all times by totally screwing the Falcons. They will have to start a 3rd string QB, or pick up duanta cullpepper. Which is fine hopefully Mario can put him on his back. So... in retrospect who is Vicks back up and how good is he?
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I believe DJ Shockley is still on their roster.

I'm not 100% sure; but in last years pre-season he looked really good...I wouldn't have minded having him as a QB on our roster....
 
Oh yeah....And Joey Harrington is a Falcon...

And Culpepper might be an option...
 
Speaking of Harrington, how many chances is this guy gonna get to start in this leauge ?
 
Here's what I have learned through Jury Duty:

When you are picked on a 'panel' (group of 30 or so) to be interviewed by the attorneys - offer opinions on EVERYTHING.... for example, I was on a panel for drug case and the attorney posed a question about sentencing for that type of case... I offered the opinion that drug dealers should be subjected to the death penalty....... ~ 10 minutes later, I hear the judge say... "panelist number 22, you may be excused"........... No jury duty, I was at the Bar by noon.
 
Jury Duty..what the heck is that?? You mean those things I get in the mail from the county that says Jury Duty Summons? Shoot, I can't recall ever getting one of those...I guess I accidentally discard them out with those God awful flyers that HEB and Randall's sends out 3x a week...:jam:
 
Elle said:
I get picked a lot, especially when I had small children. I don't know why, but there was awhile when I got at least 3 per year. I think it is bad luck for my friends too. I can't tell you how many teachers I know get called.
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Wow... I'm 41 years old, have lived in the greater Houston area for all but 4 years in the military and have only received one summons that I'm aware of... maybe I missed some in the mail..?
 
michaelm said:
Wow... I'm 41 years old, have lived in the greater Houston area for all but 4 years in the military and have only received one summons that I'm aware of... maybe I missed some in the mail..?
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You sir are one of the lucky ones. I got summonsed (sp), 4 times in about an 18-20 month period. One was for the city, the other 3 were Harris County....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Speaking of Harrington, how many chances is this guy gonna get to start in this leauge ?
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As I wrote in a separate thread..how many guys is he going to take out..Culpepper in Miami and now two QBs maybe gone out of his way in Atlanta. Voodoo.

Elle said:
I get picked a lot, especially when I had small children. I don't know why, but there was awhile when I got at least 3 per year. I think it is bad luck for my friends too. I can't tell you how many teachers I know get called.
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Only been summoned twice. Once I didn't have to go because I was in law school. The second time I sat down there...County.. until noon and luckily my number was in a good range where I got to go back to work.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Why is he being allowed to play? He shouldn't.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/s.../0719vickap.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
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Good question. Based on the facts we already know, he should be suspended for one year NOW. If the bulk of the rest of the allegations prove to be true, then he deserves a lifetime ban.

Roger Godell has had a very impressive start to his tenure, and has cracked down on some of these miscreants like Pacman. Now, all the sudden, we see that there is indeed a two-tiered structure of justice in Godell's kingdom. One set of rules for the Pacman's and one set for the Ron Mexico's. Very disapointing. I am going to send an email to the NFL offices. Anyone else that feels he should be suspended should do the same. :devilpig:
 
Porky said:
Good question. Based on the facts we already know, he should be suspended for one year NOW. If the bulk of the rest of the allegations prove to be true, then he deserves a lifetime ban.

Roger Godell has had a very impressive start to his tenure, and has cracked down on some of these miscreants like Pacman. Now, all the sudden, we see that there is indeed a two-tiered structure of justice in Godell's kingdom. One set of rules for the Pacman's and one set for the Ron Mexico's. Very disapointing. I am going to send an email to the NFL offices. Anyone else that feels he should be suspended should do the same. :devilpig:
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I could not agree more. I liked that Goodall was hard core. But not the excuse is...well PacMan has been arrested 10 times, etc. Well Vick has been in trouble too. There is no way there should be a tiered system with this.
 
swtbound07 said:
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.
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SWT, it's absolutely pathetic for people to weigh in on Vick's innocence or guilt based on what he's done on a football field. This matter has nothing to do with the football field and everything to do with the dog fighting pits. If he walks because of whatever he's accomplished on the football field, then it's a travesty. For you to admit that you would not convict him because of his accomplishments on the field, rather than whatever evidence is presented, is irresponsible and frankly, speaks volumes about you, IMO.
 
eriadoc said:
SWT, it's absolutely pathetic for people to weigh in on Vick's innocence or guilt based on what he's done on a football field. This matter has nothing to do with the football field and everything to do with the dog fighting pits. If he walks because of whatever he's accomplished on the football field, then it's a travesty. For you to admit that you would not convict him because of his accomplishments on the field, rather than whatever evidence is presented, is irresponsible and frankly, speaks volumes about you, IMO.
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I already said what my feelings are on him, and they are close to what you have said.
 
Mr teX said:
Tell that to the guy who is now paralyzed b/c of someone in pacman's entourage. That's absolutely pathetic Porky.
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I bolded the key word. Notice I said worse than anything PACMAN has done. Yes, if you include his posse, his homies, or whatever word is hip right now, we might find some agreement. I am more interested in knowing what Vick himself has done. From what has come out so far, I think it's consiberably worse than Pacman.
 
Porky, I beleive the correct vernacular would be Master Adam and his associates -or- Mr. Jones and his colleagues...
 
Porky said:
I bolded the key word. Notice I said worse than anything PACMAN has done. Yes, if you include his posse, his homies, or whatever word is hip right now, we might find some agreement. I am more interested in knowing what Vick himself has done. From what has come out so far, I think it's consiberably worse than Pacman.
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I have to say that Vick has probably shown worse judgement than PacMan has. The end result is probably worse for PacMan and his clique due to a man lying paralyzed because of their mistakes though. I value the life of one man over a dog but most of PacMan's laundry list of altercations were due to heat of the moment incidents. S**t happens, its just how you handle it when he does. PacMan and his clique have failed left and right in that respect but most incidents don't seem premeditated and calculated evil.

However, Vick's altercations are not heat of the moment or just jocks/homeboys out drunk and getting into it with others. Vick's actions have been calculated, financed, planned, and executed (literally). You don't just wake up one day and become a dog fighter. He grew this from grass roots with seed money from his 1st NFL contract within WEEKS of getting his Golden Ticket.

What I am saying is that PacMan is guilty of being a bad guy. Vick is guilty of being, in essence, a kingpin of dog fighting on the southern Atlantic seaboard and someone who lacks any ability to be humane and moral. Vick's crimes seem much more conniving and with much more premeditation than PacMan and his entourages crimes. I just hold Vick more culpable in all this than a drunk and stoned Pac Man shooting at people. One guy is just a dumbarse who acts like a criminal because he thinks its cool while Vick just seems to be a stone cold criminal.

I can't stand either of them and both need to go away for a while. I would also like to add that I am personally disappointed in Goodell in that he doesnt seem to be willing to treat Vick like the other players who have gotten in trouble. They can say that Vick is a 'first time' offender but if the NFL looks more closely at Vick's behavior they can see that there is a pattern of destructive behavior that endangers 'the shield'.

This behavior merits an initial 8 game suspension which would then give time for the court case to finish and then they could decide whether to tack on another 8-16 games and allow the Falcons to jettison him and his contract.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I have to say that Vick has probably shown worse judgement than PacMan has. The end result is probably worse for PacMan and his clique due to a man lying paralyzed because of their mistakes though. I value the life of one man over a dog but most of PacMan's laundry list of altercations were due to heat of the moment incidents. S**t happens, its just how you handle it when he does. PacMan and his clique have failed left and right in that respect but most incidents don't seem premeditated and calculated evil.

However, Vick's altercations are not heat of the moment or just jocks/homeboys out drunk and getting into it with others. Vick's actions have been calculated, financed, planned, and executed (literally). You don't just wake up one day and become a dog fighter. He grew this from grass roots with seed money from his 1st NFL contract within WEEKS of getting his Golden Ticket.

What I am saying is that PacMan is guilty of being a bad guy. Vick is guilty of being, in essence, a kingpin of dog fighting on the southern Atlantic seaboard and someone who lacks any ability to be humane and moral. Vick's crimes seem much more conniving and with much more premeditation than PacMan and his entourages crimes. I just hold Vick more culpable in all this than a drunk and stoned Pac Man shooting at people. One guy is just a dumbarse who acts like a criminal because he thinks its cool while Vick just seems to be a stone cold criminal.
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Excellent points and quoted for truth.
 
And all of that is the exact reason that if Vick is found guilty his punishment will be much worse than Pac Man's...

I don't see the discrepency...
 
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into. He made the decisions to roll with them even after he had a face to face with goodell saying he was going to impose a curfew on himself & stay out of strip clubs. Drunken nights of fun don't excuse him. Once, ok... twice, hmmm something's up with this kid........ 10 times, including multiple shootings and fights? definitely not a coincidence.
 
Mr teX said:
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into.
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I agree with this.

No one Carries a gun to a club on accident.
 
Mr teX said:
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into. He made the decisions to roll with them even after he had a face to face with goodell saying he was going to impose a curfew on himself & stay out of strip clubs. Drunken nights of fun don't excuse him. Once, ok... twice, hmmm something's up with this kid........ 10 times, including multiple shootings and fights? definitely not a coincidence.
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i hear ya. i guess i am just saying that trouble finds pacman whereas Vick seemed to be looking for trouble within a week of his initial NFL contract.

both guys are criminals at the end of the day.
 
I would tend to give Pac-man more of a benefit of doubt, than Vick. (only by the slimmest of margins though). Pac-man is just a knucklehead thug whereas Vick was involved with an illegal enterprise (alledgedly), which realized profit..

BUT, at the end of the day, I have to agree with Second Honeymoon:
both guys are criminals at the end of the day.
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