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State of the O-line

infantrycak said:
I'll look it over.

But here's the thing, oddly enough if true it supports my position - better to spend a 1st & 2nd on 2 OTs than a 1st & 2nd on 1 OT.
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That's not the point at all.

The point is that you spend the money on the best vet FA LT and spend the draft capital on the best OT in the draft. IMHO.

This way you have a vet protecting Watson's blind side while you're rookie is getting his feet wet in the NFL.

Do c you really want 2 rookies with no NFL experience protecting Watson?
 
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steelbtexan said:
That's not the point at all.

The point is that you spend the money on the best vet FA LT and spend the draft capital on the best OT in the draft. IMHO.

This way you have a vet protecting Watson's blind side while you're rookie is getting his feet wet in the NFL.

Do c you really want 2 rookies with no NFL experience protecting Watson?
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Man why can't you understand your method works for some teams and sometimes it doesn't work. The Cowboys built their line up through the draft. The Patriots do not spend your way on the offensive line but seems to always keep Brady upright. The Giants spent all that money on the line and it did not pan out for them.

You would be surprised what some continuity and a better scheme would do for a team and its offensive line.

You do not always have to go spend crazy.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man why can't you understand your method works for some teams and sometimes it doesn't work. The Cowboys built their line up through the draft. The Patriots do not spend your way on the offensive line but seems to always keep Brady upright. The Giants spent all that money on the line and it did not pan out for them.

You would be surprised what some continuity and a better scheme would do for a team and its offensive line.

You do not always have to go spend crazy.
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QB plays a huge (damn that was herd to type) in how the OL looks to the casual fan
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man why can't you understand your method works for some teams and sometimes it doesn't work. The Cowboys built their line up through the draft. The Patriots do not spend your way on the offensive line but seems to always keep Brady upright. The Giants spent all that money on the line and it did not pan out for them.

You would be surprised what some continuity and a better scheme would do for a team and its offensive line.

You do not always have to go spend crazy.
Click to expand...

You so if protecting your QB is most important thing. Look at the successful teams in the playoffs, the Pats are the outlier because they have Scarnecchia. Even the Pats spent a 1st round pick in last year's draft on a LT and that's with Scarnecchia.

I would say is this so hard for you to understand. But I'm tired of this Rihanna routine with you.
 
steelbtexan said:
You so if protecting your QB is most important thing. Look at the successful teams in the playoffs, the Pats are the outlier because they have Scarnecchia. Even the Pats spent a 1st round pick in last year's draft on a LT and that's with Scarnecchia.

I would say is this so hard for you to understand. But I'm tired of this Rihanna routine with you.
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Pass pro was poor which was especially evident when most teams were only sending 3 or 4 rushers and still getting sacks. It also allows them to cover your receivers and routes with more defenders. It really leaves Texans with no option but to shore up the line and get some decent depth at receiver. They obviously recognized this with the DT trade.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Man why can't you understand your method works for some teams and sometimes it doesn't work. The Cowboys built their line up through the draft. The Patriots do not spend your way on the offensive line but seems to always keep Brady upright. The Giants spent all that money on the line and it did not pan out for them.

You would be surprised what some continuity and a better scheme would do for a team and its offensive line.

You do not always have to go spend crazy.
Click to expand...

Most of that is Brady... and one of the best coaches, and still their OL is serviceable not great ,
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man why can't you understand your method works for some teams and sometimes it doesn't work. The Cowboys built their line up through the draft. The Patriots do not spend your way on the offensive line but seems to always keep Brady upright.
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Personally I think we've already wasted too much time. The JJ Watt led defense is danm near closed if it ain't already. Deshaun Watson with a better than decent defense window is shutting fast.

We can't fix both sides of the ball in one draft. FAs help. But I do agree with most. Overspending is never a good idea.
 
steelbtexan said:
You so if protecting your QB is most important thing. Look at the successful teams in the playoffs, the Pats are the outlier because they have Scarnecchia. Even the Pats spent a 1st round pick in last year's draft on a LT and that's with Scarnecchia.

I would say is this so hard for you to understand. But I'm tired of this Rihanna routine with you.
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Again the Texans do not have the coaching staff to build the type of offensive line you want. You can spend all you want and draft high all day long. Doesn't mean they will be coached up right. 5 years and the line has gotten worse every freaking year. One main reason, there's no darn continuity whatsoever, because each year we're changing the line.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Again the Texans do not have the coaching staff to build the type of offensive line you want. You can spend all you want and draft high all day long. Doesn't mean they will be coached up right. 5 years and the line has gotten worse every freaking year. One main reason, there's no darn continuity whatsoever, because each year we're changing the line.
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Hopefully they will draft the talent and we'll find out who is correct. Right now the talent isn't on the roster for a fair assessment. Even if they do draft 2 rookie OT's I don't expect them to be world beaters right off the bat. I expect them to take 4-6 games to adjust to life in the NFL.

Continuty without talent is what we saw last year. What I mean by this is continuity going to make Davenport move his feet better, or Martin's ankle issues go away? Btw, who is the current starting RT?

Even if you are right, I want talent to already be on hand for the new OL coach after Devlin is fired.
 
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JB said:
Most of that is Brady... and one of the best coaches, and still their OL is serviceable not great ,
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Individually.....each player on the OL may be serviceable, together.....they helped in adding another SB trophy to the Patriots FO. Every great OL is a great unit, and everyone knows there is no "I" in unit......whoops, yes there is! LOL. Anyhow, a great unit is a collection of talent who knows how to work as a team. That generally happens due to great coaching and scheme. These great units can be assembled via a load of RD1 selections and just as easily with mid round picks and UDFA.

Bad scheme and bad coaching can just about screw up any great moves a GM makes......hope OB and Devlin don't prove this statement to be true.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Individually.....each player on the OL may be serviceable, together.....they helped in adding another SB trophy to the Patriots FO. Every great OL is a great unit, and everyone knows there is no "I" in unit......whoops, yes there is! LOL. Anyhow, a great unit is a collection of talent who knows how to work as a team. That generally happens due to great coaching and scheme. These great units can be assembled via a load of RD1 selections and just as easily with mid round picks and UDFA.

Bad scheme and bad coaching can just about screw up any great moves a GM makes......hope OB and Devlin don't prove this statement to be true.
Click to expand...

Patriots did not have a great OL, they had a great QB and reasonable health and great coaching
 
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Seantrel Henderson at RT. You do know the linemen combine their talents, or lack thereof, on Friday, yes ? That interview with Risner sold me on him. He couldn't have been more appreciative for all his good fortune. I admire kids like that. He's got his head screwed on right. If he finds himself under the right teacher, and learns the nuances of pass blocking, he could be Pro Bowl material. I don't know what position he will end up at, but he is the kind of guy I want on my team. No surprise, I'll throw Jonah Williams into that same group. Not that it will happen .... but the Combine should create some separation too.
 
justmy2cents said:
Seantrel Henderson at RT. You do know the linemen combine their talents, or lack thereof, on Friday, yes ? That interview with Risner sold me on him. He couldn't have been more appreciative for all his good fortune. I admire kids like that. He's got his head screwed on right. If he finds himself under the right teacher, and learns the nuances of pass blocking, he could be Pro Bowl material. I don't know what position he will end up at, but he is the kind of guy I want on my team. No surprise, I'll throw Jonah Williams into that same group. Not that it will happen .... but the Combine should create some separation too.
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On Friday?
 
JB said:
Patriots did not have a great OL, they had a great QB and reasonable heath and great coaching
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They had a pretty good line with the best QB that has ever played, at the helm. For whatever weaknesses exist in that line, Brady compensates with one of the fastest brains, field scanners, and quickest releases in the game today, and I believe ever. I watched SB lll last night or the night before. Earl Morrall, Johnny Unitas, and Joe Namath didn't have near the talent of Brady. Dear Lord .... the game is so much faster,and so much more violent today .... it's amazing players don't leave paralyzed !
 
JB said:
Patriots did not have a great OL, they had a great QB and reasonable heath and great coaching
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It was great for the Patriots. Yes, Brady makes a big difference but I've also seen Brady have off-seasons when his receivers and OL were not as good as the 2018 team. They don't win SB's every season, they've lost a few SB's and in some season's, didn't even get to the SB. This past season, the pieces were in place.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
It was great for the Patriots. Yes, Brady makes a big difference but I've also seen Brady have off-seasons when his receivers and OL were not as good as the 2018 team. They don't win SB's every season, they've lost a few SB's and in some season's, didn't even get to the SB. This past season, the pieces were in place.
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If you were insinuating that they went to the SB because they had a great OL, you're just flat out wronng and I don't know what to tell you
 
JB said:
If you were insinuating that they went to the SB because they had a great OL, you're just flat out wronng and I don't know what to tell you
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Didn't insinuate that at all. They're part of a great team with great coaches and organization. They win it all when the pieces are in place.
 
Do you even remember what you posted in my reply to TB74 that started the nonsense?

OptimisticTexan said:
Individually.....each player on the OL may be serviceable, together.....they helped in adding another SB trophy to the Patriots FO. Every great OL is a great unit, and everyone knows there is no "I" in unit......whoops, yes there is! LOL. Anyhow, a great unit is a collection of talent who knows how to work as a team. That generally happens due to great coaching and scheme. These great units can be assembled via a load of RD1 selections and just as easily with mid round picks and UDFA.

Bad scheme and bad coaching can just about screw up any great moves a GM makes......hope OB and Devlin don't prove this statement to be true.
Click to expand...

OptimisticTexan said:
It was great for the Patriots. Yes, Brady makes a big difference but I've also seen Brady have off-seasons when his receivers and OL were not as good as the 2018 team. They don't win SB's every season, they've lost a few SB's and in some season's, didn't even get to the SB. This past season, the pieces were in place.
Click to expand...


OptimisticTexan said:
Didn't insinuate that at all. They're part of a great team with great coaches and organization. They win it all when the pieces are in place.
Click to expand...

How is that not insinuating?
 
JB said:
Do you even remember what you posted in my reply to TB74 that started the nonsense?

How is that not insinuating?
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The word "helped" insinuated they played a part in making another SB happen. What part of this is not true? Would it be fair to say that had Brady and NE been saddled with the Texans line and Devlin as OL coach that they would've been playing in the SB last season?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The word "helped" insinuated they played a part in making another SB happen. What part of this is not true? Would it be fair to say that had Brady and NE been saddled with the Texans line and Devlin as OL coach that they would've been playing in the SB last season?
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The entire team helped, that is why they call it a team.. But the conversation started with my reply to the comment that the Pats OL did a good job of keeping Brady upright..... and then you chimed in with the great OL talk.

I've had enough of this chatter
 
justmy2cents said:
I watched SB lll last night or the night before. Earl Morrall, Johnny Unitas, and Joe Namath didn't have near the talent of Brady. Dear Lord .... the game is so much faster,and so much more violent today .... it's amazing players don't leave paralyzed !
Click to expand...

Like so many things older people frequently see the old days as better and the downfall of the country, families, cars, football iin the future.

The demise of football and it being turned into flag football has been predicted my whole life. But truth is even with more protective rules the game is as violent or moreso than ever. The players are bigger & faster. E.g. guy who looked ahead of his time because he was so fast as a LB was Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson. Dude was 221 lbs. HoF DT Randy White was 257 lbs and had the nickname Manster. HoF DT Bob "Mr. Cowboy" Lilly (who JJ reminds me of tremendously) was 260 lbs. The game is evolving with the players.
 
infantrycak said:
Like so many things older people frequently see the old days as better and the downfall of the country, families, cars, football iin the future.

The demise of football and it being turned into flag football has been predicted my whole life. But truth is even with more protective rules the game is as violent or moreso than ever. The players are bigger & faster. E.g. guy who looked ahead of his time because he was so fast as a LB was Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson. Dude was 221 lbs. HoF DT Randy White was 257 lbs and had the nickname Manster. HoF DT Bob "Mr. Cowboy" Lilly (who JJ reminds me of tremendously) was 260 lbs. The game is evolving with the players.
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The game is faster, it's not as good.

Almost any hard hit is a flag and most games are flag fests that have more attention on the refs than the play on the field. That doesn't even mention the obvious rigging of games and God'ell's obsession with bs investigations like Zeke's/Spygate/Deflategate/Bountygate/StarCaps etc... Where it's been proven those investigations came to the conclusion God'ell wanted wether the facts were there or not. I mean God'ell suspended Pryor for 4 games because he got a free tatoo in college and got some money for autographing some gear. God'ell is now not letting guys partcipate in the combine for things they did in highschool.

I'm glad you are enjoying the reign of God'ell. Give me Tagliabue style of management any day

And no, the game isn't as good as it used to be.
 
PFF:

Patriots ol was projected to be 11, ended up 4th

NE-Patriots-Header.png
Another year, another well-oiled machine blocking in New England. Shaq Mason finished the season as PFF’s All-Pro right guard and all five starters were among the top-75 graded offensive linemen in the league.

And before the season:

. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Trent Brown, 79.3 overall grade
Left Guard: Isaiah Wynn, 88.1* (2017 college grade)
Center: David Andrews, 81.8
Right Guard: Shaq Mason, 81.1
Right Tackle: Marcus Cannon, 78.1

2017 season-end rank: 3rd (-8)

While the interior for the Patriots is solid, the big questions come at tackle. Marcus Cannon is coming back from an ankle injury that placed him injured reserve last year and has only one season graded above 80.0 in his career. Trent Brown on the other hand is currently penciled in at left tackle after having spent his career in San Francisco on the right side and only cracking an overall grade above 70.0 in 2017. First-round pick Isaiah Wynn could be the dark horse here to win the starting left tackle job as he allowed all of four pressures last season at the position for Georgia.

Texans:

23rd at end of season, were projected to be worst. That's a success I guess.

HST-Texans-Header.png
While the tackle position was still very much an issue for Houston, Zach Fulton and a healthy Nick Martinbrought some competency to their pass blocking. Fulton earned a 79.1 pass-blocking grade on the season while Martin was at 80.9

. HOUSTON TEXANS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Julie’n Davenport, 47.6 overall grade
Left Guard: Zach Fulton, 68.8
Center: Nick Martin, 44.9
Right Guard: Senio Kelemete, 48.3
Right Tackle: Martinas Rankin, 71.1* (2017 college grade)

2017 season-end rank: 32nd (no change)

After fielding one of the worst offensive lines we’ve seen in the PFF era, there’s little reason to think they’ll rank anything other than 32nd again this upcoming season. While injuries certainly played a role – and it’s likely center Nick Martin could bounce back from an ugly 44.9 overall grade last season – they’ve pinned their hopes to other team’s castoffs and a fourth-rounder from 2017 to protect Deshaun Watson
 
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TheKDog said:
PFF:

Patriots ol was projected to be 11, ended up 4th

NE-Patriots-Header.png
Another year, another well-oiled machine blocking in New England. Shaq Mason finished the season as PFF’s All-Pro right guard and all five starters were among the top-75 graded offensive linemen in the league.

And before the season:

. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Trent Brown, 79.3 overall grade
Left Guard: Isaiah Wynn, 88.1* (2017 college grade)
Center: David Andrews, 81.8
Right Guard: Shaq Mason, 81.1
Right Tackle: Marcus Cannon, 78.1

2017 season-end rank: 3rd (-8)

While the interior for the Patriots is solid, the big questions come at tackle. Marcus Cannon is coming back from an ankle injury that placed him injured reserve last year and has only one season graded above 80.0 in his career. Trent Brown on the other hand is currently penciled in at left tackle after having spent his career in San Francisco on the right side and only cracking an overall grade above 70.0 in 2017. First-round pick Isaiah Wynn could be the dark horse here to win the starting left tackle job as he allowed all of four pressures last season at the position for Georgia.

Texans:

23rd at end of season, were projected to be worst. That's a success I guess.

HST-Texans-Header.png
While the tackle position was still very much an issue for Houston, Zach Fulton and a healthy Nick Martinbrought some competency to their pass blocking. Fulton earned a 79.1 pass-blocking grade on the season while Martin was at 80.9

. HOUSTON TEXANS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Julie’n Davenport, 47.6 overall grade
Left Guard: Zach Fulton, 68.8
Center: Nick Martin, 44.9
Right Guard: Senio Kelemete, 48.3
Right Tackle: Martinas Rankin, 71.1* (2017 college grade)

2017 season-end rank: 32nd (no change)

After fielding one of the worst offensive lines we’ve seen in the PFF era, there’s little reason to think they’ll rank anything other than 32nd again this upcoming season. While injuries certainly played a role – and it’s likely center Nick Martin could bounce back from an ugly 44.9 overall grade last season – they’ve pinned their hopes to other team’s castoffs and a fourth-rounder from 2017 to protect Deshaun Watson
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Great post.....instead of eating the dooky sandwich, we only had to smell it.
 
TheKDog said:
PFF:


After fielding one of the worst offensive lines we’ve seen in the PFF era, there’s little reason to think they’ll rank anything other than 32nd again this upcoming season. While injuries certainly played a role – and it’s likely center Nick Martin could bounce back from an ugly 44.9 overall grade last season – they’ve pinned their hopes to other team’s castoffs and a fourth-rounder from 2017 to protect Deshaun Watson
Click to expand...

Is that written by Florio? I couldn't find a link
 
TheKDog said:
PFF:

Patriots ol was projected to be 11, ended up 4th

NE-Patriots-Header.png
Another year, another well-oiled machine blocking in New England. Shaq Mason finished the season as PFF’s All-Pro right guard and all five starters were among the top-75 graded offensive linemen in the league.

And before the season:

. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Trent Brown, 79.3 overall grade
Left Guard: Isaiah Wynn, 88.1* (2017 college grade)
Center: David Andrews, 81.8
Right Guard: Shaq Mason, 81.1
Right Tackle: Marcus Cannon, 78.1

2017 season-end rank: 3rd (-8)

While the interior for the Patriots is solid, the big questions come at tackle. Marcus Cannon is coming back from an ankle injury that placed him injured reserve last year and has only one season graded above 80.0 in his career. Trent Brown on the other hand is currently penciled in at left tackle after having spent his career in San Francisco on the right side and only cracking an overall grade above 70.0 in 2017. First-round pick Isaiah Wynn could be the dark horse here to win the starting left tackle job as he allowed all of four pressures last season at the position for Georgia.

Texans:

23rd at end of season, were projected to be worst. That's a success I guess.

HST-Texans-Header.png
While the tackle position was still very much an issue for Houston, Zach Fulton and a healthy Nick Martinbrought some competency to their pass blocking. Fulton earned a 79.1 pass-blocking grade on the season while Martin was at 80.9

. HOUSTON TEXANS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Julie’n Davenport, 47.6 overall grade
Left Guard: Zach Fulton, 68.8
Center: Nick Martin, 44.9
Right Guard: Senio Kelemete, 48.3
Right Tackle: Martinas Rankin, 71.1* (2017 college grade)

2017 season-end rank: 32nd (no change)

After fielding one of the worst offensive lines we’ve seen in the PFF era, there’s little reason to think they’ll rank anything other than 32nd again this upcoming season. While injuries certainly played a role – and it’s likely center Nick Martin could bounce back from an ugly 44.9 overall grade last season – they’ve pinned their hopes to other team’s castoffs and a fourth-rounder from 2017 to protect Deshaun Watson
Click to expand...

This is what I have been saying since last offseason.



I remember early last year when certain posters said give these guys a chance to jell. Like Jell-O.

Looks like if we give these guys a chance to gain continuity they will be fine next year. Lol


Or they could just spend the money in FA and draft capital to protect their QB.

But.... But.... It's coaching. I'm just glad the Texans have a new guy calling the personnel shots down on Kirby.
 
steelbtexan said:
I remember early last year when certain posters said give these guys a chance to jell. Like Jell-O.

Looks like if we give these guys a chance to gain continuity they will be fine next year. Lol
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Gelling is just another way of saying that everyone finally understands their assignments and is doing it. It does take some time to get to that point but having to learn more than 1 position doesn't help matters. Learning 1 position is difficult enough in a zbs. We need the right guys in the right places, learning 1 position from day 1.
 
Max said:
Gelling is just another way of saying that everyone finally understands their assignments and is doing it. It does take some time to get to that point but having to learn more than 1 position doesn't help matters. Learning 1 position is difficult enough in a zbs. We need the right guys in the right places, learning 1 position from day 1.
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It took the talented guys the Colts drafted 4 games to jell Good players seem to jell faster and better than a bunch of backups.
 
Max said:
And good coaches don't draft tackles that are guards.
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Texans have done that a few times with their most recent acquisitions - time to change that metric.
We shouldn't have to draft a Guard, but are any of the guys we have now good enough? Stats would suggest no.
Drafting a good Center and moving Martin to Guard might pay - he played Guard well at No.Dame.
That leaves you with a LT - either in FA or the draft. The other two spots should be covered by the best of the rest on the roster competing for spots.
Shape up or ship out.
Lets face it - we may not create a top ten line in one offseason, but even 15 - 20 less sacks and finishing around the top of the second half of teams is a positive.
 
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