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Injury Thread

Shishkabob said:
Watson probably upset OB a little today with his presser. We know OB doesn't like players talking about their injuries in regards to them playing or not. Today Watson said multiple times he would be out there on Sunday
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Watson the Warrior may think he's good to go. I hope that O'Brien is playing chess, knowing that Watson will not play, but forcing the Bills to prepare for 2 QBs, each with totally different skill sets.

But bottom line, the final decision to put Watson out there Sunday will be at the direction of the medical staff.........not O'Brien.
 
infantrycak said:
So you blame the medical staff and not Shanahan for RGIII?
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Mainly yes. Because the medical staff cleared RGIII to re-enter the game. Without that, you're question would have never come up.

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NFL medical standards, practices are different than almost anywhere else

By Sally Jenkins and Rick Maese
March 16, 2013
When Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III gimped onto FedEx Field in the fourth quarter of a January playoff game against the Seattle Seahawks, he was under the gaze of no fewer than six physicians and assorted medical personnel. There was an internist, two orthopedists, an emergency medicine specialist, a neurologist and a renowned knee surgeon. There were five certified athletic trainers on the sideline, and another stationed in a booth high above, an “eye in the sky” tasked with spotting injuries.

It was visible to all of them, as it was to the audience, that Griffin was so compromised by a strained right knee ligament that he could barely run. Yet the experts did not intervene. In the next moment, something became plain: There is medicine, and then there is National Football League medicine, and the practice of the two isn’t always the same.

Griffin tried to field a bad snap, and his leg collapsed at a weird angle, his knee so unstable that even a cumbersome brace could not keep him upright. He fell to the ground like a doll with a broken spring, injured with torn anterior cruciate and lateral collateral ligaments. With that, a central tenet of the Hippocratic oath — “Do no harm” — instantly seemed turned on its head. Asked later how Griffin could have been permitted to retake the field, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell called it “a medical decision.” Yet in the aftermath, even longtime NFL loyalists questioned why doctors allowed a brilliant rookie quarterback to play hurt and jeopardize his future.

“That was a horror show, letting him do that,” said agent-attorney Ralph Cindrich, who played in the league from 1972-75.

RGIII was primed to be the great young face of the NFL — and still may be — but in one January afternoon, he became an example of something else: a medical culture with conflicts of interest and competing pressures, in which players feel they must play through pain and team doctors often utilize short-term cures to help them do it. These doctors must decide whether their duty is to get the player back in the action or to get him healthy — a choice that often involves difficult judgments about drugs, procedures and treatment that can dramatically depart from what the average patient might receive.

“A lot of doctors would say we’re much more aggressive with the players, getting them back out there with their team, than we would’ve been with the guy who had any other job,” said Kurt Warner, a Super Bowl-winning quarterback who is now an analyst for the NFL Network.

Interviews with more than 50 doctors, players, agents, owners and medical ethicists suggest that what the NFL Physicians Society calls the game’s “unique clinical challenges” can result in inconsistent standards in treating players and cause some doctors to depart from best medical practices and safety norms.

Example: An ordinary citizen would receive a shot of the powerful painkiller Toradol for acute pain only after undergoing surgery, and typically for no more than five days. But in the NFL, doctors administer it weekly despite dangerous side effects that include renal failure, and its ability to mask pain to such a degree that a player injured during a game may not even be aware of the extent of his injury.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Watson the Warrior may think he's good to go. I hope that O'Brien is playing chess, knowing that Watson will not play, but forcing the Bills to prepare for 2 QBs, each with totally different skill sets.

But bottom line, the final decision to put Watson out there Sunday will be at the direction of the medical staff.........not O'Brien.
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I guess my quibble is with that "final decision" part.

The med staff will decide who is available, i.e., supposedly 'healthy enough' to be allowed to play. That, in my mind, establishes which players the head coach is allowed to pick from when he's deciding on the 46 who will suit up.

...but the final decision of which 46 get to suit up belongs to the head coach.

Now if your point is that, if the med staff does their job, they probably shouldn't let Watson pass thru the "healthy enough" decision gate, then I agree.


...probably semantics
 
Doc,

This might be an odd/ambiguous question but do you know what treatments are being done done in Germany that are not being done in the US? I was watching the Rockets game last night and they mentioned that both Eric Gordon and Chandler Parsons had been going to Germany for treatment for their knee issues. Both have had serious knee injuries in their careers including micro fracture surgery.
I know Kobe went over there during his career as well. Maybe we should send Clowney too
 
otisbean said:
Doc,

This might be an odd/ambiguous question but do you know what treatments are being done done in Germany that are not being done in the US? I was watching the Rockets game last night and they mentioned that both Eric Gordon and Chandler Parsons had been going to Germany for treatment for their knee issues. Both have had serious knee injuries in their careers including micro fracture surgery.
I know Kobe went over there during his career as well. Maybe we should send Clowney too
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maybe ..if he goes out again and if we plan to keep him, correct? Seems if new procedure successful, athletes and even civilians would be filling airports to get 'er done.
 
Shishkabob said:
stem cells, why do you think Luck was over there for a few months last year getting treatment?
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I heard from a third-party (not known if reliable) source that they were curing what US doctors affirmed as un-treatable lifr threatening cancer in just a few months. I have a sister that lived there for years and can probably confirm or disclaim if Dr. Jean has no info
 
JB said:
I heard from a third-party (not known if reliable) source that they were curing what US doctors affirmed as un-treatable lifr threatening cancer in just a few months. I have a sister that lived there for years and can probably confirm or disclaim if Dr. Jean has no info
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I heard it from a friend who....heard it from a friend who...haha
 
JB said:
I heard from a third-party (not known if reliable) source that they were curing what US doctors affirmed as un-treatable lifr threatening cancer in just a few months. I have a sister that lived there for years and can probably confirm or disclaim if Dr. Jean has no info
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I heard it from a friend who....heard it from a friend who...haha
 
otisbean said:
Doc,

This might be an odd/ambiguous question but do you know what treatments are being done done in Germany that are not being done in the US? I was watching the Rockets game last night and they mentioned that both Eric Gordon and Chandler Parsons had been going to Germany for treatment for their knee issues. Both have had serious knee injuries in their careers including micro fracture surgery.
I know Kobe went over there during his career as well. Maybe we should send Clowney too
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[I noticed that I accidentally deleted the following from my post......this should have been included to make sense of my specific response to Otisbean, and explains "Luck had these treatment along with stem cell therapy" response to Shishhkabob]

Regenokine was what was used to treat them in Germany. It is a highly processed form of Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP). PRP in the US is minimally processed. However Regenokine, being highly processed must be considered a drug and must pass valid controlled safety and efficacy trials. Thus far the world wide studies have been very inconsistent, except for the ones carried out by the company Regenokine itself..........essentially leaving the success of this substance as solely anecdotal.

Shishkabob said:
stem cells, why do you think Luck was over there for a few months last year getting treatment?
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Luck had these treatments along with stem cell therapy which again are not approved by FDA for the same reason mentioned above.


JB said:
I heard from a third-party (not known if reliable) source that they were curing what US doctors affirmed as un-treatable lifr threatening cancer in just a few months. I have a sister that lived there for years and can probably confirm or disclaim if Dr. Jean has no info
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From the studies to date, stem cells have been shown to have as much propensity to cause cancers or perpetuate existing cancers [all of us have cancer cells circulating throughout our bodies] or cause their recurrence as to cure them. All cancers originate from stem cells.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Luck had these treatments along with stem cell therapy which again are not approved by FDA for the same reason mentioned above.




From the studies to date, stem cells have been shown to have as much propensity to cause cancers or perpetuate existing cancers [all of us have cancer cells circulating throughout our bodies] or cause their recurrence as to cure them. All cancers originate from stem cells.
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and now====you have the rest of the story.
 
I just realized that I accidentally deleted an important portion of my post above (without it, it may not seem that I gave a complete answer to those I responded to)............please revisit POST #2113
 
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The fact that Foreman, although he is eligible to begin practice this week and is apparently not going to, tells me that the Texans are afraid that he may not make the 3 week window before he is prepared to be activated to play.............or be placed on IR. This said, it is unlikely that if we see Foreman in a game, it will be less than a month from now.

To review, if Foreman isn’t activated after the sixth week, the team has a six week window (day after Week 6 to day after Week 11) to make a decision to: 1) place him on injured reserve; 2) release him; or 3) get him back to practice. As soon as Foreman does return to practice, the team has another three-week window to add the him back to the 53-man roster, or place him on IR. This means that the Texans can effectively hold him on PUP until Week 15. At that point, they either have to place him on IR, activate him to the 53-man roster, or release him.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
The fact that Foreman, although he is eligible to begin practice this week and is apparently not going to, tells me that the Texans are afraid that he may not make the 3 week window before he is prepared to be activated to play.............or be placed on IR. This said, it is unlikely that if we see Foreman in a game, it will be less than a month from now.

To review, if Foreman isn’t activated after the sixth week, the team has a six week window (day after Week 6 to day after Week 11) to make a decision to: 1) place him on injured reserve; 2) release him; or 3) get him back to practice. As soon as Foreman does return to practice, the team has another three-week window to add the him back to the 53-man roster, or place him on IR. This means that the Texans can effectively hold him on PUP until Week 15. At that point, they either have to place him on IR, activate him to the 53-man roster, or release him.
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Activating at this time would be shear stupidity. This team has absolutely zero chance of making noise in a playoff game should they somehow win this ultra crappy AFC South. Just let the man heal and enjoy his services from the beginning of next season. I'm still including a couple of new RB's via the draft. Foreman would be veteran enough to handle the lead.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Activating at this time would be shear stupidity. This team has absolutely zero chance of making noise in a playoff game should they somehow win this ultra crappy AFC South. Just let the man heal and enjoy his services from the beginning of next season. I'm still including a couple of new RB's via the draft. Foreman would be veteran enough to handle the lead.
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In deference to C&D re his opinion about Foremans future in the NFL I'm gonna say we need to start looking again for a young back in the '19 Draft who could be our future starter.
 
IDEXAN said:
In deference to C&D re his opinion about Foremans future in the NFL I'm gonna say we need to start looking again for a young back in the '19 Draft who could be our future starter.
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I played with the idea in the "Mock draft" section.
 
@sarahbarshop: Deshaun Watson (chest) was a full participant in practice on Wednesday, while WRs DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller and Keke Coutee were all limited. G Zach Fulton (ankle) did not practice. https://t.co/74TKZeeDXL
 
Did Hop break his index finger at some point that I didn't know about or is this a glove malfunction?

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Looks better from a different angle.

cx9rlarz7sj4ojvcvqgn.jpg
 
Sarah Barshop‏@sarahbarshop
Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins did not practice with a foot injury. G Zach Fulton (ankle) did not practice for the second day in a row.

1:17 PM - 18 Oct 2018

From the aggregation site The Red Zone:

It is probably just a way to manage his reps and keep him fresh but any DNP designation has to be taken seriously. Hopkins has been dealing with a foot issue for weeks and has rarely practiced in full but always manages to suit up on game days as he has missed only one regular season game since entering the league in 2013. Fantasy owners should temper their expectations this Sunday as Hopkins is coming off his quietest game of the season (5/63/1) and now has to square off against Jacksonville Jaguars shutdown corner Jalen Ramsey on the road.
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Link
 
Brisco_County said:
Sarah Barshop‏@sarahbarshop
Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins did not practice with a foot injury. G Zach Fulton (ankle) did not practice for the second day in a row.

1:17 PM - 18 Oct 2018
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As I posted in the Texans vs Jaguars Injury Report yesterday,

Hopkins is having continued problems with his foot and did not participate in practice today. Let's just hope that this is not the makings of a Jones stress fracture.
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Many players try to play through this injury if they can as long as they can, until surgery is no longer avoidable. Today's DNP heightens my concern that ththis may be what he is dealing with.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As I posted in the Texans vs Jaguars Injury Report yesterday,



Many players try to play through this injury if they can as long as they can, until surgery is no longer avoidable. Today's DNP heightens my concern that ththis may be what he is dealing with.
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If it's not fully broken, rehab it until it is?
 
DocBar said:
If it's not fully broken, rehab it until it is?
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See for example those that tried to play through Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Julian Edelman, Sammy Watkins, Marvin Jones, Devante Parker and Michael Crabtree. Oh, and not lets forget Kevin Johnson who played through his first Jones fracture for over a month.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
See for example those that tried to play through Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Julian Edelman, Sammy Watkins, Marvin Jones, Devante Parker and Michael Crabtree. Oh, and not lets forget Kevin Johnson who played through his first Jones fracture for over a month.
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I forgot to add the :sarcasm:
 
Aaron Wilson‏@AaronWilson_NFL 24m24 minutes ago

Bill O'Brien on Deshaun Watson 'He is playing hurt'

Bill O'Brien on Deshaun Watson says they do everything they have to do logistically to help the player out medically

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.............like instructing him on how to properly perform pushups after being laid out................:toropalm:
 
Coutee didn't buck the odds of a recurrent hamstring within 3 weeks of return, let alone within the same season. His absence this time around will (should) not be a short one.
 
Sarah Barshop‏@sarahbarshop

Deshaun Watson said the bus ride to Jacksonville that he took to protect injuries to his ribs and lung was "smooth."

Wqd1iIzf


3:26 PM - 21 Oct 2018

Texans didn't want Deshaun Watson flying to game
5:44 PM CT
  • Sarah BarshopESPN Staff Writer

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Deshaun Watson did not fly with the Houston Texans to Jacksonville because the team was concerned about the effect the air pressure could have on the quarterback's bruised lung and injured ribs.

Instead, Watson took a 12-hour bus ride to Jacksonville with three other people.

THE REST OF THE STORY

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Watson did not fly with the Texans to Jacksonville because the team was concerned about "the effect the air pressure could have on the quarterback's bruised lung and injured ribs." He took the bus, and took the bus back..........two 12 hour rides. Bruised lungs aren't usually affected by plane rides................collapsed lungs are. Even though planes are pressurized (pressure in the cabin still change [your ears stop up or pop]), a partially collapsed lung can further deflate............or a freshly reinflated collapse lung can re-collapse. That risk continues for at least 3 weeks from successful full re-inflation of the lung. On the other hand, cracked rib trauma places a patient a risk for a blood clot and embolus to the lung occurring during long periods of sitting on a plane, train, home......or on a bus. If one is this worried about a patient's well being, I have to wonder why he would be exposed to being beaten up during this period by a gang of 300 pounders.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Aaron Wilson‏@AaronWilson_NFL 24m24 minutes ago

Bill O'Brien on Deshaun Watson 'He is playing hurt'

Bill O'Brien on Deshaun Watson says they do everything they have to do logistically to help the player out medically

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.............like instructing him on how to properly perform pushups after being laid out................:toropalm:
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Ease up CnD..Watson was just playing around out there, just getting in the heads of the jags defense is all.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Just a thought and I'm certain it will be corrected.....the athletes of today are essentially no different than the players of the very early days of professional football.....structurally. Same bones, joints, ligaments and tendons. The difference, size, weight and speed stressing those bones, joints, ligaments and tendons. The fields and game cleats could play a roll since the field grip has been greatly increased over the years, which could be forcing more stress on the player's body and their structure just can't handle it.
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In the NFL section, your question arose in the context of why are there so many more ACL injuries today as compared to the "days of yore." That is probably a contribution, but the greatest factor leading to such injuries has to do with size/weight stresses. In several studies, including one of well-known study of young military cadets have demonstrated that increased BMI and body mass are associated with increased risk of ACL injury, suggesting a direct link between increased BMI/body mass and decreased ultimate failure load. As the individual's BMI and body mass increases, the size of the ACL doesn't. It's also interesting to note that female athletes have a 5-10 times risk for ACL rupture than males. This is in light of the female ACL is anatomically smaller than the male ACL (again independent of BMI and body mass). However also complicating/contributing to this situation is that females have wider hips than men, which affect the alignment of the knee and leave women more prone to knees that move inward (knock-kneed). This movement puts stress on the ACL, especially during the added force of landing a jump or turning.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
In the NFL section, your question arose in the context of why are there so many more ACL injuries today as compared to the "days of yore." That is probably a contribution, but the greatest factor leading to such injuries has to do with size/weight stresses. In several studies, including one of well-known study of young military cadets have demonstrated that increased BMI and body mass are associated with increased risk of ACL injury in military cadets, suggesting a direct link between increased BMI/body mass and decreased ultimate failure load. As the individual's BMI and body mass increases, the size of the ACL doesn't. It's also interesting to note that female athletes have a 5-10 times risk for ACL rupture than males. This is in light of the female ACL is anatomically smaller than the male ACL (again independent of BMI and body mass). However also complicating/contributing to this situation is that females have wider hips than men, which affect the alignment of the knee and leave women more prone to knees that move inward (knock-kneed). This movement puts stress on the ACL, especially during the added force of landing a jump or turning.
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Damn CnnnD, there are certainly times I wish we could sit over a cup of coffee and talk more about your insights.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
In the NFL section, your question arose in the context of why are there so many more ACL injuries today as compared to the "days of yore." That is probably a contribution, but the greatest factor leading to such injuries has to do with size/weight stresses. In several studies, including one of well-known study of young military cadets have demonstrated that increased BMI and body mass are associated with increased risk of ACL injury, suggesting a direct link between increased BMI/body mass and decreased ultimate failure load. As the individual's BMI and body mass increases, the size of the ACL doesn't. It's also interesting to note that female athletes have a 5-10 times risk for ACL rupture than males. This is in light of the female ACL is anatomically smaller than the male ACL (again independent of BMI and body mass). However also complicating/contributing to this situation is that females have wider hips than men, which affect the alignment of the knee and leave women more prone to knees that move inward (knock-kneed). This movement puts stress on the ACL, especially during the added force of landing a jump or turning.
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Out of curiosity, do you have any opinions on why the Texans seemed to be plagued by recurring hamstring injuries? Lack of stretching? Rushing back from a previous hamstring pull?
 
Earl34 said:
Out of curiosity, do you have any opinions on why the Texans seemed to be plagued by recurring hamstring injuries? Lack of stretching? Rushing back from a previous hamstring pull?
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macho grande said:
I don't think that this is exclusively a Texans thing. It's an NFL epidemic.
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Hamstring injuries seem to be more prevalent across the board. I believe there are several reasons for this. It has been discovered that as fatigue increases, two important changes occur. 1) the weakening of the knee flexors.......most importantly, the hamstrings; (2 as this weakness occurs, the muscles cannot fully contract with the hamstrings fully extended, and therefore in response there is shortening of the muscle fascicles (and hence the muscle)

When these two changes occur, the opposing knee extension of the stronger quads overpowers the weak shortened hamstrings......and the hamstring tears. If conditioning does not prepare the player in the offseason, when game time markedly increases muscle stresses and easier fatigue occurs, all works towards the increased risk of hamstrings. As the season progresses, with the paltry stresses allowed during practices, and with the stark contrast to maximal game time stresses once a week..........hamstrings get fatigued, weakened and shortened...........the perfect set up for the quad, especially when extending forcefully while running full speed, to tear the opposing hamstring.

But, there is a significant factor that is easily overlooked.............once a hamstring is torn, as I've many times posted, it is established fact that subsequent tears are relatively common...........that means from season to season, we can expect to see not only first time hamstrings tears, but additionally retears of players that have suffered such injuries in the past and not uncommonly within the same seasons............setting up almost a logarithmic increasing pattern oF hamstring injury occurrences each subsequent year.

The only effective counter exercise approach that I am aware of is eccentric hamstring exercises. However, these must be performed by the player like religion (players that are not committed to conditioning will never benefit). Even with this being followed faithfully, I do not believe that it can overcome the woefully inadequate NFL offseason, preseason and regular season practice rules that the players themselves negotiated.
 
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