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How long will the growing pains phase last?

Mangler

Mangler

Toro de España
Being that it’s still (technically) Watson’s rookie season with an infusion of year two’s growing pains and more film on him being available, how long do you guys think this phase will or should last?

Now, I know O’Brien’s ineptness is doing our quarterback no favors but there have been numerous times that Watson has made bonehead decisions, which can’t be blamed on O’Brien.

Maybe 2019 will see Watson take a step forward, hopefully with a new head coach, or at least a competent offensive coordinator.

On a positive note, our special teams is finally being special. Too bad our offense, along with the secondary, is a smelly pile of trash.
 
Mangler said:
Being that it’s still (technically) Watson’s rookie season with an infusion of year two’s growing pains and more film on him being available, how long do you guys think this phase will or should last?

Now, I know O’Brien’s ineptness is doing our quarterback no favors but there have been numerous times that Watson has made bonehead decisions, which can’t be blamed on O’Brien.

Maybe 2019 will see Watson take a step forward, hopefully with a new head coach, or at least a competent offensive coordinator.

On a positive note, our special teams is finally being special. Too bad our offense, along with the secondary, is a smelly pile of trash.
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The secondary is the reason we won today and haven’t been nearly as bad as everyone said. Kareem has been balling with 2 ints great tackling from safety spot....4 total ints for the secondary in the last 2 games. Justin Reid has also been a bright spot.

As for the main question you’re asking, yes it’s going to last at least for the rest of this season and won’t end until the FO seriously invests in the O-line in the draft and FA; which hopefully will be next year
 
Mr teX said:
The secondary is the reason we won today and haven’t been nearly as bad as everyone said. Kareem has been balling with 2 ints great tackling from safety spot....4 total ints for the secondary in the last 2 games. Justin Reid has also been a bright spot.

As for the main question you’re asking, yes it’s going to last at least for the rest of this season and won’t end until the FO seriously invests in the O-line in the draft and FA; which hopefully will be next year
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The secondary was continuously torched until Peterman came in. But I agree on Reid and Kareem being bright spots. Hopefully there are some good offensive linemen available when we’re on the clock!
 
Mr teX said:
The secondary is the reason we won today and haven’t been nearly as bad as everyone said. Kareem has been balling with 2 ints great tackling from safety spot....4 total ints for the secondary in the last 2 games. Justin Reid has also been a bright spot.

As for the main question you’re asking, yes it’s going to last at least for the rest of this season and won’t end until the FO seriously invests in the O-line in the draft and FA; which hopefully will be next year
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The secondary has 4 good players back there …. they are THIN.
 
We are 3-3, that's .500 and tied for the division lead and so freakin lucky to be there so why all of the whining & bitching ?
This is so glass half-full and not half-empty.
 
IDEXAN said:
We are 3-3, that's .500 and tied for the division lead and so freakin lucky to be there so why all of the whining & bitching ?
This is so glass half-full and not half-empty.
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This is TTMB... nothing new here.
 
Mangler said:
Being that it’s still (technically) Watson’s rookie season with an infusion of year two’s growing pains and more film on him being available, how long do you guys think this phase will or should last?
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At least until Bob McNair cedes the team to somebody else.
Now, I know O’Brien’s ineptness is doing our quarterback no favors but there have been numerous times that Watson has made bonehead decisions, which can’t be blamed on O’Brien.
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Like throwing the ball away to a wide open defender inbounds?
Maybe 2019 will see Watson take a step forward, hopefully with a new head coach, or at least a competent offensive coordinator.
Click to expand...
!Ojala!
On a positive note, our special teams is finally being special. Too bad our offense, along with the secondary, is a smelly pile of trash.
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Defense? That's putting it kindly.
 
IDEXAN said:
We are 3-3, that's .500 and tied for the division lead and so freakin lucky to be there so why all of the whining & bitching ?
This is so glass half-full and not half-empty.
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.....b/c this record is a reflection of the teams we've played deciding they will focus on the draft. The moment the Texans face any real competition, the team that should be focusing on the draft will appear as well.
 
IDEXAN said:
We are 3-3, that's .500 and tied for the division lead and so freakin lucky to be there so why all of the whining & bitching ?
This is so glass half-full and not half-empty.
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Because the expectations are not high …. 8-8 / 9-7 in a crappy division , maybe win the division and make a playoff appearance.

Basically settling for what we have experienced for the duration of OB's tenure. The expectations haven't risen above being a mediocre team.


He's also doing his toy at QB no favors by getting it run over routinely. That guy is the future of the franchise … OB or no OB .... You cant screw him up.
 
Some have very short memories, wasn't that long ago that many thought 8-8 or 9-7 could be best to hope for and we are there so far. Let's look at some facts like them or not:

LT most important spot on line which usually faces the best defending opponent, Davenport started approximately last 2 1/2 2017 and looked decent. 2018: He starts one half game one and forced to RT where he had never started before and played minimally, 2017 never in college. 2nd game vs Tenn at RT he played 67 snaps as did Rankin did LT. 3rd game vs Giants D played 68 snaps RT & Rankin 68 LT. 4th game vs Colts D was benched but did get 7 snaps during game and Lamm started with 79 snaps. Game 5 vs Dallas Rankin benched and D started LT getting 80 snaps. Lamm 80 at RT. Game 6 at LT D gets 61 snaps and Lamm 61.

NFL CAREER: 2017 2 1/2 at LT + 2018 game one 1/2 at LT + game 5 & 6 at LT = 5 games two seasons!! Folks this is facts. Be angry, ***** moan and give away tickets but be fair to the player.

RBs rushing: Bills game Miller 15/46 and Blue 7/46 [season 73/271 @ 3.71 and 56/188 @3.36] Our Oline is fairly decent run blocking so...is it players or plays called? IMO the latter.

Oline: IIRC this oline has only two games playing all starters at same position. Could this be a significant part of our issue? Kelemete appears to be restricted by knee injury he suffered a few games ago. Over all I continue to think line gets better each game together.

Opponents fearing a scampering #4 try to force Watson to remain in pocket so is O'Brien.

I'm not over looking obvious deficiencies but as I said in another post detaching from emotions to look at the picture. The old "focusing on next game only" may be valuable to me as well as players.
 
If we jettison OBrien, Id like to give Gaine a little more time.

Reid, Coutee, Ejiofor and Thomas have been good considering their draft position. Kalambayi has also been making plays on ST
 
It all starts with Coaching. Coaching has to get better period. Yesterday was another prime example. We all know that the Bills were going to blitz and blitz often. So why not speed up the game and go no huddle. That way the defense doesn't have time to tea off on your young QB that's dealing with injuries. If the coaching doesn't get better, Watson won't get better and he will pick up very bad habits.

If the coaching gets better. We can hide the discrepancies of that offensive line.
 
badboy said:
Some have very short memories, wasn't that long ago that many thought 8-8 or 9-7 could be best to hope for and we are there so far. Let's look at some facts like them or not:

LT most important spot on line which usually faces the best defending opponent, Davenport started approximately last 2 1/2 2017 and looked decent. 2018: He starts one half game one and forced to RT where he had never started before and played minimally, 2017 never in college. 2nd game vs Tenn at RT he played 67 snaps as did Rankin did LT. 3rd game vs Giants D played 68 snaps RT & Rankin 68 LT. 4th game vs Colts D was benched but did get 7 snaps during game and Lamm started with 79 snaps. Game 5 vs Dallas Rankin benched and D started LT getting 80 snaps. Lamm 80 at RT. Game 6 at LT D gets 61 snaps and Lamm 61.

NFL CAREER: 2017 2 1/2 at LT + 2018 game one 1/2 at LT + game 5 & 6 at LT = 5 games two seasons!! Folks this is facts. Be angry, ***** moan and give away tickets but be fair to the player.

RBs rushing: Bills game Miller 15/46 and Blue 7/46 [season 73/271 @ 3.71 and 56/188 @3.36] Our Oline is fairly decent run blocking so...is it players or plays called? IMO the latter.

Oline: IIRC this oline has only two games playing all starters at same position. Could this be a significant part of our issue? Kelemete appears to be restricted by knee injury he suffered a few games ago. Over all I continue to think line gets better each game together.

Opponents fearing a scampering #4 try to force Watson to remain in pocket so is O'Brien.

I'm not over looking obvious deficiencies but as I said in another post detaching from emotions to look at the picture. The old "focusing on next game only" may be valuable to me as well as players.
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Still trying your best to sell Davenport I see. Dude is terrible, a drafted rookie next yr will be taking his place. He will be lucky to still have a place on the team, especially if Devlin is gone. Which is what I hope happens.

The Texans have a serviceable run game between the 20's but are probably the worst in the league running the ball on 3rd and short/GL plays. Most of this has to do with OL play. (I listened to Koch this morning and you should too. He speaks of the horrible OL play and he thinks BOB should be gone. Which I agree with.) The RB's are avg at best.
 
steelbtexan said:
Still trying your best to sell Davenport I see. Dude is terrible, a drafted rookie next yr will be taking his place. He will be lucky to still have a place on the team, especially if Devlin is gone. Which is what I hope happens.

The Texans have a serviceable run game between the 20's but are probably the worst in the league running the ball on 3rd and short/GL plays. Most of this has to do with OL play. (I listened to Koch this morning and you should too. He speaks of the horrible OL play and he thinks BOB should be gone. Which I agree with.) The RB's are avg at best.
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The biggest problem I see there with the run game once they get in the redzone: is they just doesn't know their blocking responsibilities. Now looking back at the game, whenever the Bills blitzed, our guys didn't know who to pickup. I also seen some guys not picking up anybody at all. Leads me to believe there's no communication going on.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The biggest problem I see there with the run game once they get in the redzone: is they just doesn't know their blocking responsibilities. Now looking back at the game, whenever the Bills blitzed, our guys didn't know who to pickup. I also seen some guys not picking up anybody at all. Leads me to believe there's no communication going on.
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I see alot of this and not just in the RZ. Difference is you have to be perfect in knowing your responsibilities and technique when you're less talented. How much of this is Devlin sucking or the players being as dumb as a box of rocks I dont know.

I do know they need knew/young blood badly.
 
I could go on and on, but what the 49ers just did is the classic example. They ran a inside zone and the guy almost breaks it. They come back and run a play action with the same action and dude gets naked and scores. Nothing looks like nothing with the Texans. It's easy to see when they're going to pass and when they're going to run.
 
Coach this..coaching that...lol guys screaming for a new coach were the same ones screaming for a new qb when they thought that was supposed to be the singular move that was to cure all our ills. Coach your ass off all u want, There’s Only so much coaching up of a player..if the talent’s not there to be coached up, you can’t do it. Lipstick on a pig and all that...

Qb play and team talent are the 2 biggest factors in the success of a HC. If 1 or both of those are not in place, the HC will come off like he doesn’t know what the hell hes doing. That’s why a jimmy Johnson can win everywhere he’s been as a HC and then be utterly mediocre in his last stop with the Dolphins. What did he forget how to coach? Unlikely.
 
Mr teX said:
Coach this..coaching that...lol guys screaming for a new coach were the same ones screaming for a new qb when they thought that was supposed to be the singular move that was to cure all our ills. Coach your ass off all u want, There’s Only so much coaching up of a player..if the talent’s not there to be coached up, you can’t do it. Lipstick on a pig and all that...

Qb play and team talent are the 2 biggest factors in the success of a HC. If 1 or both of those are not in place, the HC will come off like he doesn’t know what the hell hes doing. That’s why a jimmy Johnson can win everywhere he’s been as a HC and then be utterly mediocre in his last stop with the Dolphins. What did he forget how to coach? Unlikely.
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You spend a lot of time defending O'Brien without actually saying anything positive about him. So, what's he done to give you that good feeling? Is it his position coaches, they're pretty swell right? Coordinators, can't even keep one on offense and had the nerve to 'promote' Romeo to the worst defense we've had in a decade. Consistency, across 5 years Hopkins and Griffin are the only staples on offense. Improvement, name a single player that has gotten better across O'Brien's tenure - I'll wait. Route design, I added a link near the end of the gameday thread, feel free to add your 2cents. Technique, procedure penalties, adjustments, scheme, timeouts, challenges ... surely as O'Brien's only fan around here you can point out his great doings.

He's being carried by Romeo and what's left of Kubiak's team - Hopkins, Watt, Joseph, Kareem and now the declining Watson. To not see that takes a whole lot of effort trying not to see it.
 
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All of this really comes down to do you think Ricky left the team in this position or did BOB?

McNair by his getting rid of Ricky spoke volumes and he's going to give BOB/Gaine a chance to build the team the way they want to build it, with certain constraints that will keep them from being able to draft differencemakers like Tyreke Hill. So far I'm very impressed with Gaine's 1st draft class when you take into account what he had to work with. I'm not impressed with Gaine's 1st foray into FA. I wish he would do what it takes to get the best FA's and I'm not just talking about Solder. There were guys out there that could've fixed the secondary. BTW, Next yrs FA class doesn't look very good. IMHO

With all of this said, BOB could do a much better job. He was poor in the New England/Tack/Indy games. But the when you look at the talent on this team you see a .500 or slightly better team and their record is 3-3. Unless you had unrealistic expectations (Yes they are going thru a rebuild from the Ricky yrs.) then they are right on schedule for their talent level to intersect with their record. Pro's vs Joe's
 
Mr teX said:
Coach this..coaching that...lol guys screaming for a new coach were the same ones screaming for a new qb when they thought that was supposed to be the singular move that was to cure all our ills. Coach your ass off all u want, There’s Only so much coaching up of a player..if the talent’s not there to be coached up, you can’t do it. Lipstick on a pig and all that...

Qb play and team talent are the 2 biggest factors in the success of a HC. If 1 or both of those are not in place, the HC will come off like he doesn’t know what the hell hes doing. That’s why a jimmy Johnson can win everywhere he’s been as a HC and then be utterly mediocre in his last stop with the Dolphins. What did he forget how to coach? Unlikely.
Click to expand...

Are you secretly O'brien or one of his family members? Watch our games, it is a tale of 2 teams. Our defense plays like a well coached unit, the offense does not it is clear as day to see. Don't believe me, just listen to 610 and catch one of the numerous former NFL players who have said our offense looks like one of the worst coached units they have ever seen. Do you know why teams don't bite on our PA? because the players don't execute the fakes properly, they don't execute the fakes properly because the coaches aren't making them do it in practice. Plenty of people have said the attention to detail between Kubiak and how he coached his offense, and how OB coaches his is night and day. We have lineman that could handle stunts and twists last year on their former teams, but now look lost trying to handle it. Why? because we don't coach it well enough, we don't practice it enough. There are much less talented offensive units that execute on a much higher level, because they are being coached well. O'Brien's offenses have never cracked what the top 25 in the league, but we are still going to make excuses for him? An offensive coach that has yet to have a good offense in his tenure, who has constantly been carried by his DC and his defense. O'Brien might be a fine HC, but he has been a **** OC ever since he has been here, and there is no stat that proves other wise.
 
steelbtexan said:
All of this really comes down to do you think Ricky left the team in this position or did BOB?
Click to expand...

In Rick Smith's time he's had the #1 runningback (Foster), a yardage leader at QB (Schaub), and a #1 Receiver (Hopkins). A defensive lineman that if he can stay healthy a couple more years will be talked about in the same sentence as Laurence Taylor. A secondary of Joseph and Kareem that is still dominant, with the major error of dropping his pick Glover Quin for Ed Reed (hmmm). An offensive line that sent 3 players to the probowl in a single season - and two others who got paid handsomely - one of which went to the probowl elsewhere. In Rick's time we've had the personnel to have a #1 defense, and 12 wins ... all in 5 years.

What's different? It took time because we were almost literally starting our franchise from the 2006 draft, but Rick Smith had superstars everywhere. O'Brien inherited all of it. And now? What's different between our 2007-2012 players and those of the past 5 years? Why don't we have 3 probowlers on the line? Why don't we have another #1 receiver? Why don't we have the next Demeco Ryans or Brian Cushing? Rick Smith is the constant, so what is the variable? What changed?
 
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santo said:
His time management, his record against playoff teams, the inability to develop players and among other things suggest he isn't.
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I agree for the most part, just put that in for the OB apologists who think he would clean up those areas if he wasn't focused on running the offense, which coincidentally is by his own choice
 
steelbtexan said:
All of this really comes down to do you think Ricky left the team in this position or did BOB?

McNair by his getting rid of Ricky spoke volumes and he's going to give BOB/Gaine a chance to build the team the way they want to build it, with certain constraints that will keep them from being able to draft differencemakers like Tyreke Hill. So far I'm very impressed with Gaine's 1st draft class when you take into account what he had to work with. I'm not impressed with Gaine's 1st foray into FA. I wish he would do what it takes to get the best FA's and I'm not just talking about Solder. There were guys out there that could've fixed the secondary. BTW, Next yrs FA class doesn't look very good. IMHO

With all of this said, BOB could do a much better job. He was poor in the New England/Tack/Indy games. But the when you look at the talent on this team you see a .500 or slightly better team and their record is 3-3. Unless you had unrealistic expectations (Yes they are going thru a rebuild from the Ricky yrs.) then they are right on schedule for their talent level to intersect with their record. Pro's vs Joe's
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610 Sports is supposed to interview Ross Tucker from the NFL Network tomorrow who says the Texans are wasting some of the NFL's best . I'd be curious to hear his take but I'm pretty sure I know what it is .
 
steelbtexan said:
All of this really comes down to do you think Ricky left the team in this position or did BOB?

McNair by his getting rid of Ricky spoke volumes and he's going to give BOB/Gaine a chance to build the team the way they want to build it, with certain constraints that will keep them from being able to draft differencemakers like Tyreke Hill. So far I'm very impressed with Gaine's 1st draft class when you take into account what he had to work with. I'm not impressed with Gaine's 1st foray into FA. I wish he would do what it takes to get the best FA's and I'm not just talking about Solder. There were guys out there that could've fixed the secondary. BTW, Next yrs FA class doesn't look very good. IMHO

With all of this said, BOB could do a much better job. He was poor in the New England/Tack/Indy games. But the when you look at the talent on this team you see a .500 or slightly better team and their record is 3-3. Unless you had unrealistic expectations (Yes they are going thru a rebuild from the Ricky yrs.) then they are right on schedule for their talent level to intersect with their record. Pro's vs Joe's
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Quick correction: he did not get rid of Smith. He still works for this team.

Obrien has dismantled the offense for what ever the reason was.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Quick correction: he did not get rid of Smith. He still works for this team.

Obrien has dismantled the offense for what ever the reason was.
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RS is still employed for health insurance purposes due to his wife's condition. Kaiwee Long said on 610 after he met personally with Rick, and spent time with him at his house that Smith would not come back to this organization even if she makes a 100% recovery. He for all purposes is no longer with the organization
 
Shishkabob said:
RS is still employed for health insurance purposes due to his wife's condition. Kaiwee Long said on 610 after he met personally with Rick, and spent time with him at his house that Smith would not come back to this organization even if she makes a 100% recovery. He for all purposes is no longer with the organization
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Gotcha
 
Texansballer74 said:
Gotcha
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For what it's worth Kaiwee also said Smith stayed heavily involved with the league office this off season working with the competition committee even though he technically isn't a part of it anymore. But he did help formulate some of the new rules, and said if Rick ever came back to the game he thinks he would go work for the league office, because they think that highly of him there and it would still give him a lot of time with his family
 
steelbtexan said:
Still trying your best to sell Davenport I see. Dude is terrible, a drafted rookie next yr will be taking his place. He will be lucky to still have a place on the team, especially if Devlin is gone. Which is what I hope happens.

The Texans have a serviceable run game between the 20's but are probably the worst in the league running the ball on 3rd and short/GL plays. Most of this has to do with OL play. (I listened to Koch this morning and you should too. He speaks of the horrible OL play and he thinks BOB should be gone. Which I agree with.) The RB's are avg at best.
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Well a left tackle drafted this season to replace him tried and failed. You continue to ignore that I'm not saying he is playing well I'm saying leave him where he should be and let him learn. IIRC, you as well as others have stated both tackles spots are different and not many players can plug and play at both. Some like Rankin IMO will be able to eventually. I would also like to see Devlin go & OBrien as he is biggest harm to D and other OL as not helping them to get better.


#2. D has continuously been rated as strong against run so why are we not successful running through him? How many times did we see D blocking to his right to help LG? Having a vet next him rated at 59 and 43rd in NFL isn't helpful to a rookie.

#3 Explain how only 2 1/2 games at LT gives him any hope at being successful? We have no one better now so leave him there and he will learn himself as he did in college. He is not the typical OL that OBrien likes that can play multi positions. He is a LT only.

#4 we don't have a RB for 3rd & short/GL plays; Foreman while a finesse runner can power when needed. I believe he was part of management's reasoning that D could be an answer at LT. Hopefully he shocks me and returns soon & is successful.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The biggest problem I see there with the run game once they get in the redzone: is they just doesn't know their blocking responsibilities. Now looking back at the game, whenever the Bills blitzed, our guys didn't know who to pickup. I also seen some guys not picking up anybody at all. Leads me to believe there's no communication going on.
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Exactly! IIRC lack of communication was mentioned by announcers during game. Watson seemed to be irritated at not getting next play in quick enough. D has enough challenge going to his left against wide attacks without having to begin his block to his right.
 
Mr teX said:
Coach this..coaching that...lol guys screaming for a new coach were the same ones screaming for a new qb when they thought that was supposed to be the singular move that was to cure all our ills. Coach your ass off all u want, There’s Only so much coaching up of a player..if the talent’s not there to be coached up, you can’t do it. Lipstick on a pig and all that...

Qb play and team talent are the 2 biggest factors in the success of a HC. If 1 or both of those are not in place, the HC will come off like he doesn’t know what the hell hes doing. That’s why a jimmy Johnson can win everywhere he’s been as a HC and then be utterly mediocre in his last stop with the Dolphins. What did he forget how to coach? Unlikely.
Click to expand...
Martinas Rankin played well enough in college that he was thought by many to be able to start at RT if not LT almost immediately. Why isn't he coached enough to at least look like he knows what he's doing as a backup? Find more than one local or national analyst blaming Watson for not curing ills. Losing starting RT Henderson game one for season greatly impacts entire offense. Are you saying none of our offensive linemen have any coachability?
 
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