How long will the growing pains phase last?

[Mr teX]

I'm not talking about HC, but coaching in general. Kubiak made Carr serviceable even when that wasn't his choice of qb and was able to develop Schaub. Wade and Crennel made the defense good for a couple of years. I can't say the same thing about OB.

Lol Carr WAS NOT serviceable for the 1 year he was here when Kubiak arrived. For years on this forum the debate was "Does Schaub have the ability to audible in Kubiak's offense??" It's also widely known how simple Kubiak's offense is. If Kubiak was so great, it wouldn't have taken him 6 years just to get this team competitive, We would've went further than we did in his playoff runs here & his offense wouldn't have fallen apart as soon as teams stop biting on the play-action boots his offense was built around.

 

[Mr teX]

OB just had to come in this year and not screw up Deshaun Watson, yet he found a way.

Yeah, except that's not even close to an accurate portrayal of what's happened.

 

[Mr teX]

double post

 

[disaacks3]

I didn't say that at all....But if we follow what you guys have been advocating since before BoB's extension we should just "clean house" and get rid of the BoB stench right? Well, that includes Crennel too. He shouldn't get a pass either is all i'm saying.

Well, let's just take a look at some comparative stats...

Team Defense yards allowed:

2017 - #20
2016 - #1
2015 - #3
2014 - #16


Team Offense yards gained:

2017 - #20
2016 - #29
2015 - #19
2014 - #17

 

[TheKDog]

He's also collectively had the most talent on his side of the ball brought in for him too. He should not get a pass b/c as i said, he's been an associate HC for the last 3 years & has been apart of the coaching regime that's been in place for 5 years now too. You can't sit up here and put his failures as a HC/DC on the "organization" and then put BoB's failures on him & him alone.

What failures? It's been a top 10 defense every year except 1

 

[TheKDog]

Yeah, except that's not even close to an accurate portrayal of what's happened.

So then what's happened?

 

[Shishkabob]

Lol...no. what's clear is that you as fan are incapable of coming to your own conclusion about what's going on & rely on the opinions of talkshow hosts to form it. Those guys take their cues from you as a fan & are going to pump up whatever the hot topic is. & when your team doesnt win, the hot topic ususally revolves around HC decisions and qb play. You can go to every teams message board and find a thread on fans complaining about coaching. It is literally the go to of every fan when their team doesn't win...either that or the qb play.

& yeah, i'd like to see the list of these teams you're talking about whom are executing at a "higher" level who are talent deficient & who are winning. Beyond those 3 criterion, i'm calling ducktales.

No I don't form my opinion from talk show host, they just back up the opinion I have. Cecil Short, Wade Smith, Kaiwee wong are not employed by 610 they do not have to cater to fans, but they all still have criticized how poorly coached our offense seems to be. Maybe you are to blind in your own bias for our HC that you can;t accurately gauge how he is doing?

Can you come up with any reasonable excuse as to why O'Brien has yet to lead a top 25 offense in this league, despite being an offensive coach? At first it was QB QB QB, and now that we have a QB it's OL OL OL, our offense has had many different pieces on it through out O'Brien's tenure, yet the results are the same. What has been the 1 constant from year 1 through year 5?

 

[Mr teX]

Well, let's just take a look at some comparative stats...

Team Defense yards allowed:

2017 - #20
2016 - #1
2015 - #3
2014 - #16


Team Offense yards gained:

2017 - #20
2016 - #29
2015 - #19
2014 - #17

None of that means anything b/c its a team game & niether side of the ball was so good as to be able to carry this team to where we all want them to be. & Again, the defensive ranks should be higher consider there's been more talent on that side of the ball going back to Kubiak's days here.

 

[disaacks3]

None of that means anything b/c its a team game & niether side of the ball was so good as to be able to carry this team to where we all want them to be. & Again, the defensive ranks should be higher consider there's been more talent on that side of the ball going back to Kubiak's days here.

Actually, it means quite a lot. You made an assertion not backed up by the facts. You've now tried to switch your tack to support your stance.

How about you just admit that your statement "Well, that includes Crennel too. He shouldn't get a pass either is all i'm saying." was far too broad.

 

[Mr teX]

No I don't form my opinion from talk show host, they just back up the opinion I have. Cecil Short, Wade Smith, Kaiwee wong are not employed by 610 they do not have to cater to fans, but they all still have criticized how poorly coached our offense seems to be. Maybe you are to blind in your own bias for our HC that you can;t accurately gauge how he is doing?

Can you come up with any reasonable excuse as to why O'Brien has yet to lead a top 25 offense in this league, despite being an offensive coach? At first it was QB QB QB, and now that we have a QB it's OL OL OL, our offense has had many different pieces on it through out O'Brien's tenure, yet the results are the same. What has been the 1 constant from year 1 through year 5?

I see you conveniently dismissed these so-called teams that are executing at a higher clip offensively and are winning...suspected you would.

The bolded were all you num nut fans who thought that a qb was going to fix everything. I never subscribed to that ideology b/c i know better. & to answer your question, The one constant has been a lack of talent on that side of the ball. The Texans have only recently started acquiring talent on that side. Do you realize when O'brien got here in 2014, all he had on offense was a young Nuk... an end of life Arian Foster & Andre Johnson? The little talent we had left on the o-line was jettisoned by Smith in Brown & Brooks. The 1st 2 drafts only yielded 3 offensive players to build around from the 1st 3 rounds out of 7 total picks & none of those guys were 1sts....XSF, Jaaleen Strong & Fido....bust, bust and avg. It wasn't until 2016 where the script was flipped with more offensive talent being taken than defensive players...Fuller, Martin, Miller, Watson & Foreman...& still no linemen.

Sure, Bob has his hand in some of that, but that's been more Rick Smith than anything.

 

[JB]

If all these guys knew what they wanted, they'd all have been much more successful HC''s than they actually were...clearly that's not the case.
All 3 have had multiple opportunities to get it right and all failed. The only reason Kubiak had success is b/c the building of the team was pretty
much already done by the previous regime..he just had to come in & not screw it up lol.

wait... what?

 

[Mr teX]

Actually, it means quite a lot. You made an assertion not backed up by the facts. You've now tried to switch your tack to support your stance.

How about you just admit that your statement "Well, that includes Crennel too. He shouldn't get a pass either is all i'm saying." was far too broad.

Lol I haven't tried to switch anything & if we are to clean house like you guys are advocating it should include Crennel. He is part of this coaching staff too no matter how much you guys try to separate him from it by showing defensive ranks over the years, nor does it prove anything about his "coaching". As i said earlier, where was he when this defense was getting ran up & down the field last year?

 

[Mr teX]

wait... what?

The success he had with the Broncos as their HC...Manning & that defense was pretty much already in place from John Fox.

 

[TheKDog]

How many years can OBrien blame Rick Smith for the offensive failures?

 

[JB]

The success he had with the Broncos as their HC...Manning & that defense was pretty much already in place from John Fox.

I thought you were talking about while he was here

 

[disaacks3]

Lol I haven't tried to switch anything & if we are to clean house like you guys are advocating it should include Crennel. He is part of this coaching staff too no matter how much you guys try to separate him from it by showing defensive ranks over the years, nor does it prove anything about his "coaching". As i said earlier, where was he when this defense was getting ran up & down the field last year?

Funny thing, I haven't advocated "cleaning house" yet.

The claim made is that O'Brien isn't getting any better, yet Crennell has fielded a top-ten defense. (These claims are borne out by the facts I presented.)

You counter with "when we were getting run up and down the field LAST year". You gloss over the fact that Crennel wasn't the DC last year as if it's some side-story. You probably think losing JJ and Merci wasn't an issue either I suspect).

You somehow think that linking O'Brien and Crennel with "cleaning house" is logical, when the facts don't support that supposition. Heck, you even make the really dubious claim that the rankings show nothing about Crennell's coaching ability. You want to go out on a limb and say he's not that good? Go ahead, we know you want to.

What are you going to try next? Blame Rick Smith for hand-picked QBs by O'Brien in Hoyer & Mallett?

Heck, astound us in your knowledge, answer my question from earlier: "Name the last time a team before the 2018 Texans that had 1st and Goal from the one two consecutive weeks, and failed to punch it in?"

 

[Mr teX]

How many years can OBrien blame Rick Smith for the offensive failures?

In dealing with the **** show Smith left him with, Brian Gaine drafted Rankin, Thomas & Coutee with 3 of the 1st 4 picks he got. Those late round guys ALL have already shown as much or more promise than any player Smith drafted in the last 4-5 years on that side of the ball outside of Deshaun Watson & probably WFV. So you tell me.

 

[Shishkabob]

I see you conveniently dismissed these so-called teams that are executing at a higher clip offensively and are winning...suspected you would.

The bolded were all you num nut fans who thought that a qb was going to fix everything. I never subscribed to that ideology b/c i know better. & to answer your question, The one constant has been a lack of talent on that side of the ball. The Texans have only recently started acquiring talent on that side. Do you realize when O'brien got here in 2014, all he had on offense was a young Nuk... an end of life Arian Foster & Andre Johnson? The little talent we had left on the o-line was jettisoned by Smith in Brown & Brooks. The 1st 2 drafts only yielded 3 offensive players to build around from the 1st 3 rounds out of 7 total picks & none of those guys were 1sts....XSF, Jaaleen Strong & Fido....bust, bust and avg. It wasn't until 2016 where the script was flipped with more offensive talent being taken than defensive players...Fuller, Martin, Miller, Watson & Foreman...& still no linemen.

Sure, Bob has his hand in some of that, but that's been more Rick Smith than anything.

We are 31st in redzone scoring even though we are 2nd in red zone attempts. Take your pick of any team on that board. Do the Texans have the second to last least talented offense in the NFL? O'Brien is responsible for the cards he has been dealt, just like Rick Smith was so pardon me for not giving him a pass for having to lay in the bed he helped make.

But lets see Seattle has the 2nd best redzone offense and that's with their top receiver battling a sprained knee all season. Ravens are 5th in red zone offense and still don't have a credible receiver. Indy is 9th with no one besides Luck, the ARIZONA CARDINALS are 11th and are one of the worse teams in football. Chi town sitting at 16th with much less talent on their offense, hell even Buffalo is ranked ahead of us at 23rd.

How many excuses will you make for this guy? Just ask yourself how many of his offense in 5 years have been at the very least average?

 

[Mr teX]

Funny thing, I haven't advocated "cleaning house" yet.

The claim made is that O'Brien isn't getting any better, yet Crennell has fielded a top-ten defense. (These claims are borne out by the facts I presented.)

You counter with "when we were getting run up and down the field LAST year". You gloss over the fact that Crennel wasn't the DC last year as if it's some side-story. You probably think losing JJ and Merci wasn't an issue either I suspect).

You somehow think that linking O'Brien and Crennel with "cleaning house" is logical, when the facts don't support that supposition. Heck, you even make the really dubious claim that the rankings show nothing about Crennell's coaching ability. You want to go out on a limb and say he's not that good? Go ahead, we know you want to.

What are you going to try next? Blame Rick Smith for hand-picked QBs by O'Brien in Hoyer & Mallett?

Heck, astound us in your knowledge, answer my question from earlier: "Name the last time a team before the 2018 Texans that had 1st and Goal from the one two consecutive weeks, and failed to punch it in?"

Sure its logical, their all part of the coaching staff & everyone should be gone...its what usually happens. In-coming coach usually wants his guys in over the outgoing coach's.

Crennel's side of the ball should be performing better. As i said, he's got & had more talent on that side of the ball to work with..... Not the case on the offensive side. When JJ, Mercy & some of those other key starters were lost, you see how Crennel's great coaching all of a sudden began to fail.

So spare me your "facts" b/c they don't support your "supposition" either. If anything they point more to the disparity in talent.

 

[Mr teX]

We are 31st in redzone scoring even though we are 2nd in red zone attempts. Take your pick of any team on that board. Do the Texans have the second to last least talented offense in the NFL? O'Brien is responsible for the cards he has been dealt, just like Rick Smith was so pardon me for not giving him a pass for having to lay in the bed he helped make.

But lets see Seattle has the 2nd best redzone offense and that's with their top receiver battling a sprained knee all season. Ravens are 5th in red zone offense and still don't have a credible receiver. Indy is 9th with no one besides Luck, the ARIZONA CARDINALS are 11th and are one of the worse teams in football. Chi town sitting at 16th with much less talent on their offense, hell even Buffalo is ranked ahead of us at 23rd.

How many excuses will you make for this guy? Just ask yourself how many of his offense in 5 years have been at the very least average?

Average enough to get to the playoffs? 2. & that's with virtually nothing on the side to worth with except Nuk.


Aside from that, you sound real stupid right now considering that getting to the red zone to get those attempts counts as part of your offense too. In fact, the Texans as a total offense, are top 10. Which tells me that they move the ball just fine...right up until they get in the red zone when they start to have trouble..when it becomes more about winning your 1 on 1's. You're attempt to paint it as anything else really just reinforces my point. When you bog down in the red zone it's more man v man, talent v talent. The Texans simply don't match up well in that regard b/c the talent up front to dominate IS NOT THERE. This is now a match up league & the offense may have anywhere from 1-3 match ups total in thier favor at any given point on the field.. Watson, Nuk & WFV. But Watson's gets somewhat nuetralized when they can't protect him....so really its like 1-2....Those are terrible odds for any offense to function under consistently & have success.

Furthermore how is one responsible for the cards someone deals to them? You're not even making any damn sense anymore.

We heard about the rifts and disagreements he and Smith started having. Its not a coincidence that these last 2 drafts we saw a change in drafting of offensive talent.

 

[Shishkabob]

Average enough to get to the playoffs? 2. & that's with virtually nothing on the side to worth with except Nuk.


Aside from that, you sound real stupid right now considering that getting to the red zone to get those attempts counts as part of your offense too. In fact, the Texans as a total offense, are top 10. Which tells me that they move the ball just fine...right up until they get in the red zone when they start to have trouble..when it becomes more about winning your 1 on 1's. You're attempt to paint it as anything else really just reinforces my point. When you bog down in the red zone it's more man v man, talent v talent. The Texans simply don't match up well in that regard b/c the talent up front to dominate IS NOT THERE.

Furthermore how is one responsible for the cards someone deals to them? You're not even making any damn sense anymore.

We heard about the rifts and disagreements he and Smith started having. Its not a coincidence that these last 2 drafts we saw a change in drafting of offensive talent.

Your instinct to insult someone who disagrees with you shows how little of an argument you actually have. Guess what moving the ball up and down the field doesn't mean anything if you cant score. The Bills line sucks, yet they get the ball in at a higher rate than us, the Cardinals line sucks yet they get in at a much higher rate. Winning 1 on 1's down there is important, but so is scheming. Good coaches can scheme around their deficiencies O'Brien has not been able to. Seattle's line sucks, they have no receivers, and no RBs yet are 2nd in red zone efficiency. Again you want to make excuses when other teams that have the same excuses with less talent are still out performing them.

A HC and GM work together, you can see a clear change in smith's draft philosophy with Kubiak and O'Brien so yes I don't care about any reports of a rift, O'Brien did help accumulate the talent or lack thereof on the offense.

Also your so intelligent to point out the changes in the last 2 drafts, but you conveniently forget that Smith was here for that 2nd to last draft. O'Brien can't evaluate talent, and neither could Smith. Gaine showed at least for 1 draft he could

 

[Shishkabob]

Just give us 1 solid reason we should want O'Brien as our head coach? and not he won the division twice when it was absolute garbage and he relied on the defense to carry them there

 

[TheKDog]

In dealing with the **** show Smith left him with, Brian Gaine drafted Rankin, Thomas & Coutee with 3 of the 1st 4 picks he got. Those late round guys ALL have already shown as much or more promise than any player Smith drafted in the last 4-5 years on that side of the ball outside of Deshaun Watson & probably WFV. So you tell me.

Despite that, the offense is 27th, worst in obriens tenure

 

[Mr teX]

Your instinct to insult someone who disagrees with you shows how little of an argument you actually have. Guess what moving the ball up and down the field doesn't mean anything if you cant score. The Bills line sucks, yet they get the ball in at a higher rate than us, the Cardinals line sucks yet they get in at a much higher rate. Winning 1 on 1's down there is important, but so is scheming. Good coaches can scheme around their deficiencies O'Brien has not been able to. Seattle's line sucks, they have no receivers, and no RBs yet are 2nd in red zone efficiency. Again you want to make excuses when other teams that have the same excuses with less talent are still out performing them.

A HC and GM work together, you can see a clear change in smith's draft philosophy with Kubiak and O'Brien so yes I don't care about any reports of a rift, O'Brien did help accumulate the talent or lack thereof on the offense.

Also your so intelligent to point out the changes in the last 2 drafts, but you conveniently forget that Smith was here for that 2nd to last draft. O'Brien can't evaluate talent, and neither could Smith. Gaine showed at least for 1 draft he could

All sunday all i read on the Bills message board was "how are we gonna score?.."...Just b/c they "get in a higher rate than us" doesn't mean that they're a better offense...it could just mean that they rarely get there but when they do, they score...which for them, that actually is the case.

Again, this is all your opinion backed up by the opinions of others. But when you put this theory to the test it does not hold up. Countless coaches fail every single year for having failures on thier supposed expertise and side of the ball. The deciding factor is usually b/c of the talent they have. Scheming around deficiencies only works if you have talent elsewhere to compensate.

And again all those teams you named ARE NOT averaging more Pts per game than us, are bottoms in the league in total offense nor are they wining way more than us. All are 3-3 like us or worse.

 

[Porky]

Growing pains? This is more like growing a cancerous tumor called BOB. Until they decide to go into surgery and excise the BOB tumor, this offense will be stuck in 1st gear. Dude is clueless, and it's sad watching good talent rot on the vine due to his poor coaching. Don't believe me? Listen to every press conference the guy does. Hell, the McNair's ought to believe him when he says he sucks at playcalling, scheming, or anything else that an OC does.

And like a defendant that is a fool for having hiring himself as his own lawyer, so too is an arrogant SOB sorry ass HC that hires himself as OC. Foolish doesn't quite cover it. I'm so down with this prick of a coach that I can barely stand to look at him on TV.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

As many growing pains as Texans fans have been through since 2002 , we should be 46 feet tall .

 

[steelbtexan]

How many years can OBrien blame Rick Smith for the offensive failures?

I think we should give Gaine atleast 1 full draft before we take the heat off if Ricky. Really 2

Ricky left a really sh!tty OL and not much depth in the secondary to go along with very little draft capital to fix the problems. He did leave cap space, but everybody knows the Texans only bargain bin shop in FA. It's a Texans tradition.

 

[Earl34]

I think we should give Gaine atleast 1 full draft before we take the heat off if Ricky. Really 2

Ricky left a really sh!tty OL and not much depth in the secondary to go along with very little draft capital to fix the problems. He did leave cap space, but everybody knows the Texans only bargain bin shop in FA. It's a Texans tradition.

Out of curiosity, what does keeping heat on Rick Smith accomplishes? Does it give O'Brien an out? I know we will politely agree to disagree on this, but I really doubt every OL Smith selected was made in a vacuum. Scouts, position coaches and even O'Brien attended workouts, visited with prospects and chimed in with their recommendations.

I doubt, every personnel choice was Smith's or the highway. So, why does O'Brien get a pass from so many? I don't understand why it has to be a Smith or O'Brien criticism when both deserve criticism.

 

[steelbtexan]

Out of curiosity, what does keeping heat on Rick Smith accomplishes? Does it give O'Brien an out? I know we will politely agree to disagree on this, but I really doubt every OL Smith selected was made in a vacuum. Scouts, position coaches and even O'Brien attended workouts, visited with prospects and chimed in with their recommendations.

I doubt, every personnel choice was Smith's or the highway. So, why does O'Brien get a pass from so many? I don't understand why it has to be a Smith or O'Brien criticism when both deserve criticism.

We are going to see if this is true or not with BOB/Gaine. The reason I think this is for the 1st time in 5 yrs we will see a GM/HC who are on the same page. It actually showed up in this last draft and they didn't even have 1st/2nd rd draft picks. Surely you can see the difference in the drafts.

 

[JB]

We are going to see if this is true or not with BOB/Gaine. The reason I think this is for the 1st time in 5 yrs we will see a GM/HC who are on the same page. It actually showed up in this last draft and they didn't even have 1st/2nd rd draft picks. Surely you can see the difference in the drafts.

What has te last draft done for us lately? 3 of 4 not even playing

 

[steelbtexan]

What has te last draft done for us lately? 3 of 4 not even playing

Reid is doing very well for a 3rd rder. Same with Coutee IMHO.

Rankin has potential to be a starting LG. You dont like Ejofor?

Got their P for the next 10 yrs. The LB from Stanford is making plays on ST's.

Hard to say about the TE's since they have to stay in and block so much to cover for the bad OL.

Overall I think Gaine did a fantastic job considering the picks he had. What were your expectations?

 

[JB]

Reid is doing very well for a 3rd rder. Same with Coutee IMHO.

Rankin has potential to be a starting LG. You dont like Ejofor?

Got their P for the next 10 yrs. The LB from Stanford is making plays on ST's.

Hard to say about the TE's since they have to stay in and block so much to cover for the bad OL.

Overall I think Gaine did a fantastic job considering the picks he had. What were your expectations?

Sorry, frustration bit me, Forgot about Coutee and Duke. Was thinking of the TE's and them not getting playing time lately while we watched Griffin **** the bed. Shouldn't let my anger cross over between sports

 

[Shishkabob]

All sunday all i read on the Bills message board was "how are we gonna score?.."...Just b/c they "get in a higher rate than us" doesn't mean that they're a better offense...it could just mean that they rarely get there but when they do, they score...which for them, that actually is the case.

Again, this is all your opinion backed up by the opinions of others. But when you put this theory to the test it does not hold up. Countless coaches fail every single year for having failures on thier supposed expertise and side of the ball. The deciding factor is usually b/c of the talent they have. Scheming around deficiencies only works if you have talent elsewhere to compensate.

And again all those teams you named ARE NOT averaging more Pts per game than us, are bottoms in the league in total offense nor are they wining way more than us. All are 3-3 like us or worse.

you asked for examples of teams with less talent executing better, I gave examples. Almost every team in the league besides 1 executes in the redzone at a higher level. Many of them I would say are not as talented as the Texans, yet their coaches can get the job done.

Answer my other question, give us 1 solid reason why we should be fine with O'Brien remaining our head coach despite 5 years of the same ineptitude on offense?

 

[Flyingfish]

After watching the games and reading these threads, I'm thinking the title of this thread should be changed. Growth infers that an entity has life and it is progressing. The Texans offense has not had growth for some time. Maybe this thread title needs to change, from "How long will the growing pains phase last?," to "How long will the death throes last?"

 

[steelbtexan]

After watching the games and reading these threads, I'm thinking the title of this thread should be changed. Growth infers that an entity has life and it is progressing. The Texans offense has not had growth for some time. Maybe this thread title needs to change, from "How long will the growing pains phase last?," to "How long will the death throes last?"

The answer to the death throes is they should be fixed after next offseason.

 

[Shishkabob]

you asked for examples of teams with less talent executing better, I gave examples. Almost every team in the league besides 1 executes in the redzone at a higher level. Many of them I would say are not as talented as the Texans, yet their coaches can get the job done.

Answer my other question, give us 1 solid reason why we should be fine with O'Brien remaining our head coach despite 5 years of the same ineptitude on offense?

Idk if I really think OB is a bad coach. He is good at inspiring his players, he isn't as bad at play calling as some(including myself) like to criticize him for. I just don't think he has the managerial skills needed to be a good HC, at least I haven't seen evidence of him possessing those while he has been here

 

[eriadoc]

After 16 years, I think the growing pain is just pain. Nothing growing around here. Nothing good, anyway.

 

[Mr teX]

you asked for examples of teams with less talent executing better, I gave examples. Almost every team in the league besides 1 executes in the redzone at a higher level. Many of them I would say are not as talented as the Texans, yet their coaches can get the job done.

Answer my other question, give us 1 solid reason why we should be fine with O'Brien remaining our head coach despite 5 years of the same ineptitude on offense?

There is no "good" reason i suppose. But the team is more than the stagnant offense & where we disagree is you guys like to pick & choose what's attributed to him & what's not when it suits your argument.
"The problems with the offense are all his fault b/c they suck, he sucks at calling plays & he's ultimately responsible for it b/c he's the HC..... etc. etc...."

well if he's responsible for everything as the HC, well that would include the defense right? You guys in the very next breath..

"Well.................. the defense ain't really him that's Crennel...etc..etc...". As if to say he doesn't have anything to do with that side of the ball. You can't have it both ways & most coaching staffs don't function in offensive & defensive bubble like you guys assert. BoB may have gotten his start in coaching on the offensive side of the ball..but he's a defensive guy at heart...guy played LB, defensive end at Brown & you're not going to become a HC in this league if you don't know both sides of the ball very well.

There's also something to be said for keeping the locker room. That's usually the death kneel for most coaches...when the message becomes stale & you don't believe in the guy anymore. There's never even been remotely a sign of him being in danger of losing the locker room & he's made some pretty shrewd moves that could've easily lost him the locker room..jettisoning Andre Johnson...pulling Hoyer after a 1/2.....getting into it with Mallet..Oz...

& now this.... you guys screaming for an OC now...are the same ones crying when Godsey was here calling plays............................. as the OC.

 

[JB]

I can't stand the 'you guys' like everyone on this MB but you think alike. Are you talking to one or all? We all can't agree on anything

 

[Mr teX]

I can't stand the 'you guys' like everyone on this MB but you think alike. Are you talking to one or all? We all can't agree on anything

lol my bad JB...I'm talking to the Shishkabobs, Uncle Rico's & TK Dogs.....& we can agree that BoB isn't Bill Belichick....like a few in here think every other coach not named BoB is..

 

[Texansballer74]

Lets face it Bill O'Brien has a long ways to go before anyone can say he's a good coach. Right now he's a below average coach. I remember when the media was hyping him, saying," if the Texans fire him so many teams would hire him". Now they have him on the hot seats. Polls about who will get fired between him , Jason G and several other coaches.

Now if he can win the next 7, just maybe we can bump him to average- above average.

 

[Shishkabob]

There is no "good" reason i suppose. But the team is more than the stagnant offense & where we disagree is you guys like to pick & choose what's attributed to him & what's not when it suits your argument.
"The problems with the offense are all his fault b/c they suck, he sucks at calling plays & he's ultimately responsible for it b/c he's the HC..... etc. etc...."

well if he's responsible for everything as the HC, well that would include the defense right? You guys in the very next breath..

"Well.................. the defense ain't really him that's Crennel...etc..etc...". As if to say he doesn't have anything to do with that side of the ball. You can't have it both ways & most coaching staffs don't function in offensive & defensive bubble like you guys assert. BoB may have gotten his start in coaching on the offensive side of the ball..but he's a defensive guy at heart...guy played LB, defensive end at Brown & you're not going to become a HC in this league if you don't know both sides of the ball very well.

There's also something to be said for keeping the locker room. That's usually the death kneel for most coaches...when the message becomes stale & you don't believe in the guy anymore. There's never even been remotely a sign of him being in danger of losing the locker room & he's made some pretty shrewd moves that could've easily lost him the locker room..jettisoning Andre Johnson...pulling Hoyer after a 1/2.....getting into it with Mallet..Oz...

& now this.... you guys screaming for an OC now...are the same ones crying when Godsey was here calling plays............................. as the OC.

Yes he is responsible for everything as the HC, offense, defense, and special teams. First 3 years he was here the defense was good, the offense and special teams very poor. so his grade for the first 3 years is what 33%? 4th year all sides of the ball failed, but we look past that because of injuries ok, this is his first year in which he has 2/3's of his team playing well, and the side he is most responsible for(not because he is an offensive coach, but because he chose to keep himself as OC so he is head of the offense and is therefore directly responsible for how that unit performs) It doesn't matter that BoB played defense in college, he has coached for 25 years, and only 1 of those 25 was spent coaching defense and that was back in 94. He never truly learned how to coach a defense at the college much less professional level. Also I do not believe teams offense and defense operate in side a bubble, but your sweeping generalizations and lumping everyone who disagrees with you together shows about as much of a lack of acumen as your petty insults earlier did. Btw BoB has said RAC is a huge asset to him because he can hand the defense over to him and not worry about it. So what should we make of that?

Next point, yea losing the locker room is a general sign of a coach needing to be shown the door, but it's not the only one. There have been a multitude of player coaches, whose guys would run through a wall for them, who never lost their locker room but couldn't hack it as a HC, probably because like BoB they lack the proper managerial skills to do the job.

Do you not think this team needs an OC? if so why? trust me ALL of us remember BoB's little protege Godsey, the guy he personally groomed from the time he was BoB's college QB, and brought him to every coaching stop along the way. Yes we all remember how much of an utter failure that guy was at being our OC. But why should that give us any faith in bob to identify and coach up talent both with players and his coaches? He made Godsey the OC, he taught Godsey how to play call, Godsey's failure is BoB's failure, but I guess you will ignore that part huh?

I will say this again all success falls on your coach, just like all failures fall on your coach. O'Brien has failed in more ways than he has succeeded, not just player personnel wise, or play calling wise.

 

[Mr teX]

Yes he is responsible for everything as the HC, offense, defense, and special teams. First 3 years he was here the defense was good, the offense and special teams very poor. so his grade for the first 3 years is what 33%? 4th year all sides of the ball failed, but we look past that because of injuries ok, this is his first year in which he has 2/3's of his team playing well, and the side he is most responsible for(not because he is an offensive coach, but because he chose to keep himself as OC so he is head of the offense and is therefore directly responsible for how that unit performs) It doesn't matter that BoB played defense in college, he has coached for 25 years, and only 1 of those 25 was spent coaching defense and that was back in 94. He never truly learned how to coach a defense at the college much less professional level. Also I do not believe teams offense and defense operate in side a bubble, but your sweeping generalizations and lumping everyone who disagrees with you together shows about as much of a lack of acumen as your petty insults earlier did. Btw BoB has said RAC is a huge asset to him because he can hand the defense over to him and not worry about it. So what should we make of that?

Next point, yea losing the locker room is a general sign of a coach needing to be shown the door, but it's not the only one. There have been a multitude of player coaches, whose guys would run through a wall for them, who never lost their locker room but couldn't hack it as a HC, probably because like BoB they lack the proper managerial skills to do the job.

Do you not think this team needs an OC? if so why? trust me ALL of us remember BoB's little protege Godsey, the guy he personally groomed from the time he was BoB's college QB, and brought him to every coaching stop along the way. Yes we all remember how much of an utter failure that guy was at being our OC. But why should that give us any faith in bob to identify and coach up talent both with players and his coaches? He made Godsey the OC, he taught Godsey how to play call, Godsey's failure is BoB's failure, but I guess you will ignore that part huh?

I will say this again all success falls on your coach, just like all failures fall on your coach. O'Brien has failed in more ways than he has succeeded, not just player personnel wise, or play calling wise.

You're still double talking & trying to pass your opinion off as fact....You don't know what the guy knows or doesn't know....You also don't know the extent of his involvement on the defensive side of the ball. RAC is a former HC himself, and has been a DC for like 7890798 years. Of course he's a huge asset to BoB & would be for any HC up to and including Belichick. Why wouldn't he say that & BoB would be a fool not to tap him as a source of knowledge.

It's not a matter of whether I think this team needs an OC. Its whether having someone else call plays is going to dramatically improve an offense that is actually currently ranked in the top half of the league...You keep forgetting that. Given the o-line issues, it's likely that it won't make much of a difference..........my opinion & its perfectly ok to disagree with that. You also act like its uncommon or something for a guy to bring his own "little protege" in to take on a major coaching duty. Have you forgotten how Kubiak ran thru 2 of his buddies before McNair apparently forced him to bring in Wade for the defense? Little Shanahan was brought in with 0 credentials as an OC to call plays for us under Kubiak. What he did with Godsey is no different.

And what the hell does "proper managerial skills to do the job" even mean? You paint this dude as a bumbling idiot. The guy has been a HC here for 5 years & has had some success on this level.......albeit limited. If he didn't have the requisite "managerial skills" to do the job, Don't you think the players would've seen through that **** a looonnnnng time ago & threw his ass to the wolves?

You can say all success and failures fall on a coach & you're technically right b/c he is the person whom most often has to speak to the press about game decisions, roster moves, calls etc. etc....but players know. They know what's what. It's the HC's job to go out in front of cameras & protect his players...even when he knows they aren't playing well. Hell its all of their jobs to do that if asked about a teammate.

Acting like anything BoB is doing or has done is so off from any other HC is just silly.

 

[Shishkabob]

You're still double talking & trying to pass your opinion off as fact....You don't know what the guy knows or doesn't know....You also don't know the extent of his involvement on the defensive side of the ball. RAC is a former HC himself, and has been a DC for like 7890798 years. Of course he's a huge asset to BoB & would be for any HC up to and including Belichick. Why wouldn't he say that & BoB would be a fool not to tap him as a source of knowledge.

It's not a matter of whether I think this team needs an OC. Its whether having someone else call plays is going to dramatically improve an offense that is actually currently ranked in the top half of the league...You keep forgetting that. Given the o-line issues, it's likely that it won't make much of a difference..........my opinion & its perfectly ok to disagree with that. You also act like its uncommon or something for a guy to bring his own "little protege" in to take on a major coaching duty. Have you forgotten how Kubiak ran thru 2 of his buddies before McNair apparently forced him to bring in Wade for the defense? Little Shanahan was brought in with 0 credentials as an OC to call plays for us under Kubiak. What he did with Godsey is no different.

And what the hell does "proper managerial skills to do the job" even mean? You paint this dude as a bumbling idiot. The guy has been a HC here for 5 years & has had some success on this level.......albeit limited. If he didn't have the requisite "managerial skills" to do the job, Don't you think the players would've seen through that **** a looonnnnng time ago & threw his ass to the wolves?

You can say all success and failures fall on a coach & you're technically right b/c he is the person whom most often has to speak to the press about game decisions, roster moves, calls etc. etc....but players know. They know what's what. It's the HC's job to go out in front of cameras & protect his players...even when he knows they aren't playing well. Hell its all of their jobs to do that if asked about a teammate.

Acting like anything BoB is doing or has done is so off from any other HC is just silly.

I'm not saying my opinion is fact, and I'm not saying OB doesn't consult at all with RAC, he himself said RAC is an asset because he can let him run the defense and not worry about it. Those are his words not mine.

I don't think he needs an OC so we get better play calls, I think he needs an OC so he can worry about the HC duties, and not the duties of both a HC and an OC. He still struggles with in game management decisions, we have an issue with lack of execution, maybe some of this can get resolved if he wasn't spreading himself so thin. But again if that is the problem, that is still a failure on BoB for not identifying it and dealing with it sooner.

I have no problem with BoB trying Godsey out as OC, but Godsey's failure is a strike against BoB just like Kubiak's failure to identify a DC were strikes against him. I think it's also a failure on BoB that since he struck out once he has refused to try again. Andy Reid is a great offensive mind and still uses OCs, he can still put his stamp on an offense but it frees him up to do the job of the HC and over see everything. BoB isn't experienced enough as a HC to try to do 2 jobs at once, he needs to cut it out identify someone he likes as an OC and live or die by that decision. It's not that I think he is an idiot, I just think he makes idiotic decisions sometimes

 

[Mr teX]

I'm not saying my opinion is fact, and I'm not saying OB doesn't consult at all with RAC, he himself said RAC is an asset because he can let him run the defense and not worry about it. Those are his words not mine.

I don't think he needs an OC so we get better play calls, I think he needs an OC so he can worry about the HC duties, and not the duties of both a HC and an OC. He still struggles with in game management decisions, we have an issue with lack of execution, maybe some of this can get resolved if he wasn't spreading himself so thin. But again if that is the problem, that is still a failure on BoB for not identifying it and dealing with it sooner.

I have no problem with BoB trying Godsey out as OC, but Godsey's failure is a strike against BoB just like Kubiak's failure to identify a DC were strikes against him. I think it's also a failure on BoB that since he struck out once he has refused to try again. Andy Reid is a great offensive mind and still uses OCs, he can still put his stamp on an offense but it frees him up to do the job of the HC and over see everything. BoB isn't experienced enough as a HC to try to do 2 jobs at once, he needs to cut it out identify someone he likes as an OC and live or die by that decision. It's not that I think he is an idiot, I just think he makes idiotic decisions sometimes

Funny u used Andy Reid...a guy notorious for his game management blunders and over-creativeness with playcalling.

There’s a lot that happens in the course of game...split second decisions have to be made and just about every coach not named Belichick has at least 1 game management boo boo a game. The ones who have less usually have a qb that can take some of those game management decisions off their plate. Bob is trying to teach a young qb some of those nuances .

 

[steelbtexan]

Lets face it Bill O'Brien has a long ways to go before anyone can say he's a good coach. Right now he's a below average coach. I remember when the media was hyping him, saying," if the Texans fire him so many teams would hire him". Now they have him on the hot seats. Polls about who will get fired between him , Jason G and several other coaches.

Now if he can win the next 7, just maybe we can bump him to average- above average.

Unrealistic expectations much?

 

[Scooter]

There is no "good" reason i suppose. But the team is more than the stagnant offense & where we disagree is you guys like to pick & choose what's attributed to him & what's not when it suits your argument.
"The problems with the offense are all his fault b/c they suck, he sucks at calling plays & he's ultimately responsible for it b/c he's the HC..... etc. etc...."

well if he's responsible for everything as the HC, well that would include the defense right? You guys in the very next breath..

"Well.................. the defense ain't really him that's Crennel...etc..etc...". As if to say he doesn't have anything to do with that side of the ball. You can't have it both ways & most coaching staffs don't function in offensive & defensive bubble like you guys assert. BoB may have gotten his start in coaching on the offensive side of the ball..but he's a defensive guy at heart...guy played LB, defensive end at Brown & you're not going to become a HC in this league if you don't know both sides of the ball very well.

There's also something to be said for keeping the locker room. That's usually the death kneel for most coaches...when the message becomes stale & you don't believe in the guy anymore. There's never even been remotely a sign of him being in danger of losing the locker room & he's made some pretty shrewd moves that could've easily lost him the locker room..jettisoning Andre Johnson...pulling Hoyer after a 1/2.....getting into it with Mallet..Oz...

& now this.... you guys screaming for an OC now...are the same ones crying when Godsey was here calling plays............................. as the OC.

Wow talk about picking and choosing. The only part you got right is "there is no good reason". I realize that Steel is contrarian/troll with his agendas and anyone but Kubiak/Smith/McNair gives him wood, but damn you're all over the place. O'Brien played defense(ish) a lifetime ago and has no experience coaching on that side, but allow him a piece of the pie baked by the two longest tenured DC's in the NFL - that's next level trying too hard. Give him a hint of credit for landing Romeo (lost by removing him for Vrabel). What about the rest of the group? Our line is still Watt, Clowney and hopefuls. In 5 years our secondary has been coached up to include such new comers as Joseph and Kareem ... wait. Benton sucks obviously. Year 5 we might have a decent WR coach, who has no actual coaching experience. We don't have an OC because he's too busy being awesome on defense. QB coaches have gotten ... lol sorry I couldn't finish that one. Do we have a RB coach? How's that responsible for everything working again? A bunch of nobody coaches carried by veterans and a DC that is gluing things together.

As for keeping the lockerroom, I think we all saw a hint of that last weekend with Watson's cold shoulder. I guess we can keep shipping off veterans and malcontents ... aka our good players.

I realize this post will accomplish nothing other than to paint new scapegoats, but it was nice to see a direct answer to a direct question (since you ignored mine) ... "There is no good reason".

 

[banned1976]

I’ve just browsed this thread, I haven’t read all comments. On the subject of coaching, I don’t think Crennell should get a pass. His defense is good against bad offenses, and not always. This defense has never proven to stop or even slow down the top QBs. There are still major holes in the secondary and the pass rush isn’t that great this year either. We’re going to get reminded of that soon enough.

I’m incapable of praising a defense that got ate up at home by the N.Y. Giants.

 

[Mr teX]

Wow talk about picking and choosing. The only part you got right is "there is no good reason". I realize that Steel is contrarian/troll with his agendas and anyone but Kubiak/Smith/McNair gives him wood, but damn you're all over the place. O'Brien played defense(ish) a lifetime ago and has no experience coaching on that side, but allow him a piece of the pie baked by the two longest tenured DC's in the NFL - that's next level trying too hard. Give him a hint of credit for landing Romeo (lost by removing him for Vrabel). What about the rest of the group? Our line is still Watt, Clowney and hopefuls. In 5 years our secondary has been coached up to include such new comers as Joseph and Kareem ... wait. Benton sucks obviously. Year 5 we might have a decent WR coach, who has no actual coaching experience. We don't have an OC because he's too busy being awesome on defense. QB coaches have gotten ... lol sorry I couldn't finish that one. Do we have a RB coach? How's that responsible for everything working again? A bunch of nobody coaches carried by veterans and a DC that is gluing things together.

As for keeping the lockerroom, I think we all saw a hint of that last weekend with Watson's cold shoulder. I guess we can keep shipping off veterans and malcontents ... aka our good players.

I realize this post will accomplish nothing other than to paint new scapegoats, but it was nice to see a direct answer to a direct question (since you ignored mine) ... "There is no good reason".

Lol....so you're interpreting Watson walking by straight back to the bench as a "hint" of discord amongst the locker room? So Watson's demeanor didn't have anything to do with the turnover huh? Talk about reaching.... your entire post is Mr. Fantastic levels of reaching. Assumptions all over the place mainly based on how he chose his staff......All the while you're in this thread & another praising our former coach who did the exact same type of ish for 5 years...had the exact same level of success in that time span........ & only had that b/c our largely clueless owner saved him from himself & forced his hand.

Talk about all over the place & picking and choosing. Your posts are the epitome of it.

 

[Scooter]

Lol....so you're interpreting Watson walking by straight back to the bench as a "hint" of discord amongst the locker room?

I love that you knew exactly what I was talking about.

As for the rest of it. You're entering Steelb level of blinders by comparing a guy who inherited the exact roster that won 12 games in a season and sent 9 players to the Probowl in a single season, to the guy who inherited David Carr, Andre Johnson and a kicker (and a year saddled with Mike Sherman, his players, and that debt). As I asked you initially, what good can you say? Stop putting off on others, comparing to others, blaming others ... say something positive about O'Brien and our coaching staff. Counter with things that he and the coaches are doing well instead of "well, that other guy ...".

Unless you can't ....