Wouldn't this have shown up during physicals? Haven't heard anything about it with him until that appropriately timed photo
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Injury Thread
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Wouldn't this have shown up during physicals? Haven't heard anything about it with him until that appropriately timed photo
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Here is a progression of Watson pics that I could find that go back to high school.
Note that in all but the most recent ones, he has maintained a well-defined upper eyelid crease. He has shown no to progressing minimal ptosis in the past (most would not even appreciate its presence). However, now he demonstrates a very significant level of ptosis along with essentially a complete loss of his upper lid crease.
Current Clemson star QB Deshaun Watson enjoyed one of the most prolific high school careers in Georgia prep history at Gainesville High School from 2010-13.Credit: Scout
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June 10, 2013
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Dec 11, 2013
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Nov 1, 2015
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Jan 10, 2016
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CONTINUED BELOW IN NEXT POST
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
April 24, 2017
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Sept 28, 2017
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Jan 21, 2018
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There is a term "lazy eye" that is used by the general public to mean the eyes are "wandering" off center or fixed off center. The medical term is "strabissimus."
"Lazy eye" if ever explained to a patient by a physician actually refers to a condition called "amblyopia" when the the vision in one eye for any reason is significantly adversely affected congenitally, damaged by trauma (including lesser conditions such as astigmatism), malpositioned pupil or the pupil is significantly covered by ptosis of the eyelid. In these cases, if the conditions are not addressed, the visual distortion/deficiency can lead to "lazy eye" (amblyopia) as the brain starts to "turn off" confusing inputs from the affected eye (that eye being considered "lazy" as it is not holding up its "responsibilities). Eventually, the patient will essentially begin using only one eye (the good eye), with the same implications of a person only having one eye.
Some of you seem to feel that by bringing something like this up, I just don't like Watson. As I've admitted in the past, I was initially skeptical re. his potential as an NFL starter. That was quickly wiped away when he was brought into play. I am still concerned about his style of play (especially with the present OL situation). However, he already has to deal with coming off of a 2nd ACL. I doubt that anyone would wish for him to deal with anymore than he has to now..............including me. We all want him to succeed. I brought the subject/observation of ptosis up simply to bring attention to something that if casually overlooked, could affect his play........if not now, later.
"Lazy eye" if ever explained to a patient by a physician actually refers to a condition called "amblyopia" when the the vision in one eye for any reason is significantly adversely affected congenitally, damaged by trauma (including lesser conditions such as astigmatism), malpositioned pupil or the pupil is significantly covered by ptosis of the eyelid. In these cases, if the conditions are not addressed, the visual distortion/deficiency can lead to "lazy eye" (amblyopia) as the brain starts to "turn off" confusing inputs from the affected eye (that eye being considered "lazy" as it is not holding up its "responsibilities). Eventually, the patient will essentially begin using only one eye (the good eye), with the same implications of a person only having one eye.
Some of you seem to feel that by bringing something like this up, I just don't like Watson. As I've admitted in the past, I was initially skeptical re. his potential as an NFL starter. That was quickly wiped away when he was brought into play. I am still concerned about his style of play (especially with the present OL situation). However, he already has to deal with coming off of a 2nd ACL. I doubt that anyone would wish for him to deal with anymore than he has to now..............including me. We all want him to succeed. I brought the subject/observation of ptosis up simply to bring attention to something that if casually overlooked, could affect his play........if not now, later.
It cant hurt to have this fixed. Especially as long as there's a chance that a minor surgery could help improve has accuracy in the 15-25 yd range.
But I would only want this surgery done IF it doesn't set him back in his ACL rehab.
Looking at those pics you can certainly see the progression.
But I would only want this surgery done IF it doesn't set him back in his ACL rehab.
Looking at those pics you can certainly see the progression.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Of course deferring to CnD, but having had it, it won't.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That's correct. He would have to stay away from strenuous rehab for ~2 weeks to try to avoid a bleeding complication, but that should not have significant impact on his rehab progress.
https://www.ohiokneesurgery.com/maci-davidc-flanigan-md-sports-medicine.html
CnD, can you please weigh in with your opinion of this procedure?
CnD, can you please weigh in with your opinion of this procedure?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've written about this in the past. Although it has had some success in occasional athletes, it is a yet unproven technique. The greatest success reported has been from China, studies that have questionable validity/honesty. In general, it appears that it will enhance healing of cartilage in areas of limited size, and in specific areas of the joint. It has been most successful in under 22 year olds, with relatively poor results in athlete 27 years old and older. Rehab takes at least 1 year, and return to play and level of performance compared to pre-procedure has been very unpredictable. As with most injuries, the top elite athletes would be expected to fare best.The problem with football players is they usually weight quite a bit, especially a high percentage of positions................after this surgery, most patients are told to get their weight down for obvious reasons during rehab to facilitate the "take" of the cultured cells, as well as following rehab in order to slow down and minimize the expected "wear down."
I work with a young man who is having this done. He's mid-late 20's. I guess I'll just deal with the pain of an arthritic knee.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This technique is more likely to be relatively successful in a non-athlete for obvious reasons. I'd be curious as to how he does if you can give a follow up down the line.
He's something of an athlete and weight lifter.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From now on, he better think about keeping his weight down and reserving most of his weight lifting while on his back.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This makes perfect sense. Most do not understand that a "partial" ACL tear does not refer to a classic ligament tear (Figure 1).
FIGURE 1 [Partial ulnar collateral ligament tear]
The ACL ligament is actually composed of 2 separate ligament/bundles..............the anteromedial (AM) bundle and the postrolateral (PL) bundle (red and blue in Figure 2). A partial ACL tear typically refers to a tear of one of the two ACL bundles. When this happens there is commonly no "pop" because the other bundle remains intact, thus limiting the amount of separation of the joint. It is not unusual that there is not a significant degree of discomfort with this occurrence. But there is usually a "feeling of loseness" and some perceived instability to the knee. The player can recognize this as mostly soreness with strain. When the player ignores the signs and later goes out to play again with this instability, the other bundle is stressed to the point that it tears, but again there is no real pop because the joint is already separated and the tear does not require the same extreme tension (bowstring "pop" effect, like when a stretched rubber band breaks) produced when there is a simultaneous rupture of both bundles......i.e., a complete rupture. When the final bundle rupture occurs, the instability is complete and the player will usually find it painful and difficult to walk.
FIGURE 2
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
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A partial ACL tear that involves only 1 of the 2 ACL bundles (which occurred in the Seattle game) compared to a complete 2 bundle ACL rupture (which occurred in practice) have definite implications. If only 1 of the ACL bundles are ruptured and the other bundle remains intact, a selective 1 bundle repair can be performed. The remaining intact bundle preserves normal blood supply and all-important normal proprioception (the ability to sense stimuli arising within the body regarding the orientation of knee position, motion, and equilibrium). Short-term and long-term success of the single bundle ACL repair( vs double bundle repair) has shown superior results. This follows the key principle of surgery...........When there is an indication for surgery, preservation of the remaining fibers is fundamental, in order to preserve the mechanical, vascular and proprioceptive capacity of the knee.
Keep in mind that a truly normal anatomic reconstruction of the ACL has never been able to be developed, making it that much more important to preserve one of the bundles if intact.
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cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Texans hire new strength and conditioning coach:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Terrific move by Texans hiring Broncos strength and rehab coach Luke Richesson. He's one of the best in the business. He's a splendid addition to Bill O'Brien's staff. He was highly thought of in Denver.
"It’s bittersweet. I loved being a Bronco,'' Richesson said. "It was so rewarding working with the players. Going to two Super Bowls and winning the world championship, that's what we work for. Nothing beats that.
"But the Texans gave me an opportunity I couldn't pass up. A huge thanks to John Elway and (director of player personnel) Matt Russell. There's some great people working on the staff there, people like (PR director) Patrick Smyth – people don’t understand how invaluable he is to that organization.''
With the Texans, Richesson will not only run their strength and conditioning program but he will also oversee player nutrition and be involved in physical rehab.
In his six years overseeing the Broncos’ strength and conditioning program, Richesson modernized the weight room, training and movement techniques for the elite athlete.
After flying in on the same plane with new defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio from Jacksonville to Denver in February 2012, Richesson’s training methods helped solved what had been the Broncos’ long-standing problem with soft-tissue (hamstring, quad, groin) injuries.
With Richesson working for head coaches John Fox, Gary Kubiak and Vance Joseph, the Broncos consistently ranked among the league leaders in fewest games missed because of injury. The team won four division titles, two AFC championships and one Super Bowl title during Richesson’s term.
Haven't seen this posted elsewhere.
Good move Doc.?
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Terrific move by Texans hiring Broncos strength and rehab coach Luke Richesson. He's one of the best in the business. He's a splendid addition to Bill O'Brien's staff. He was highly thought of in Denver.
"It’s bittersweet. I loved being a Bronco,'' Richesson said. "It was so rewarding working with the players. Going to two Super Bowls and winning the world championship, that's what we work for. Nothing beats that.
"But the Texans gave me an opportunity I couldn't pass up. A huge thanks to John Elway and (director of player personnel) Matt Russell. There's some great people working on the staff there, people like (PR director) Patrick Smyth – people don’t understand how invaluable he is to that organization.''
With the Texans, Richesson will not only run their strength and conditioning program but he will also oversee player nutrition and be involved in physical rehab.
In his six years overseeing the Broncos’ strength and conditioning program, Richesson modernized the weight room, training and movement techniques for the elite athlete.
After flying in on the same plane with new defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio from Jacksonville to Denver in February 2012, Richesson’s training methods helped solved what had been the Broncos’ long-standing problem with soft-tissue (hamstring, quad, groin) injuries.
With Richesson working for head coaches John Fox, Gary Kubiak and Vance Joseph, the Broncos consistently ranked among the league leaders in fewest games missed because of injury. The team won four division titles, two AFC championships and one Super Bowl title during Richesson’s term.
Haven't seen this posted elsewhere.
Good move Doc.?
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TejasTom
All Pro
Sound good to me.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I believe that this is indeed a good and needed move.Texans hire new strength and conditioning coach:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Terrific move by Texans hiring Broncos strength and rehab coach Luke Richesson. He's one of the best in the business. He's a splendid addition to Bill O'Brien's staff. He was highly thought of in Denver.
"It’s bittersweet. I loved being a Bronco,'' Richesson said. "It was so rewarding working with the players. Going to two Super Bowls and winning the world championship, that's what we work for. Nothing beats that.
"But the Texans gave me an opportunity I couldn't pass up. A huge thanks to John Elway and (director of player personnel) Matt Russell. There's some great people working on the staff there, people like (PR director) Patrick Smyth – people don’t understand how invaluable he is to that organization.''
With the Texans, Richesson will not only run their strength and conditioning program but he will also oversee player nutrition and be involved in physical rehab.
In his six years overseeing the Broncos’ strength and conditioning program, Richesson modernized the weight room, training and movement techniques for the elite athlete.
After flying in on the same plane with new defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio from Jacksonville to Denver in February 2012, Richesson’s training methods helped solved what had been the Broncos’ long-standing problem with soft-tissue (hamstring, quad, groin) injuries.
With Richesson working for head coaches John Fox, Gary Kubiak and Vance Joseph, the Broncos consistently ranked among the league leaders in fewest games missed because of injury. The team won four division titles, two AFC championships and one Super Bowl title during Richesson’s term.
Haven't seen this posted elsewhere.
Good move Doc.?
I qualified this with this post in another thread:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Was listening to McClain's chat where he stated that Mercilus was rehabbing nicely from his biceps surgery.........I hope not.
Pancakes probably couldn't tell where one ended and the other started. lol He should change his name to Aunt Jemima. He'd get more respect.Was listening to McClain's chat where he stated that Mercilus was rehabbing nicely from his biceps surgery.........I hope not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
well..it was a graph about "wrongs"...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A seminal study estimated that such errors occur in approximately 1 of 112,000 surgical procedures...
Just for the record, this study is entirely outdated. Since that time, the Joint Commission of Hospitals has put extremely stringent processes in place to minimize these happenings. (For anyone that has had recent surgery, you will notice that you will have been asked to repeat umpteen times by the nurses and anesthesia, your name, surgery, which site [the surgeon must mark the site(s) prior to surgery] will be operated on........and prior to making an incision the surgeon must repeat this aloud with all the personnel in operating room confirming the veracity of the information). In 2015 and 2016, there were a total of only 120 and 104 such events respectively reported. This is not to say there are no egregious failures when those procedures are not followed. Example, I had been asked to review a case where the wrong leg was amputated for an aggressive thigh osteoarcoma......and even more regrettably, the patient needed to be returned to surgery after the mistake was discovered......to amputate the other/correct malignant containing leg. Although these horrible events still occur, they are so much less common than before these new safety measures have been instituted.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Doc not arguing but just putting out there..when I worked in hospitals in late 90s, JCAH would make demands and hospitals would be toeing the line for a month or two and then doctors and nurses would start back sliding like Baptists. I remember a push on control of meds..that lasted only days. Too easy to pry a few pills here and few there into a nurse's pocket. An RN psych nurse who supervised two programs (mental and drug abuse) with RN charge nurses below her each managing the floor lost her license less than a year after I left that field. She was popping and failed a surprise screen. I do get years have passed but I think rules still are "over looked or ignored" today. You do have much more recent and better insight than I. Meds are different than surgery also but I still hear from nurses I know how boo boos occur like objects being left inside patient or wrong tests, parts of body operated on, etc.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Those times have long gone. The JCAH regulations have gone from the thickness of a romance paperback in the '90s to the thickness and details of the tax code. And the penalties (especially the accreditation status) that the hospitals (and in turn the doctors, nurses and paramedical personnel) suffer today for infractions (even seemingly small ones) are draconian by comparison. JCAH have come to be one of the most feared audits in medicine. For 16 years up until last year, I was Credentials chairman of my hospital, charged with the not so easy task of maintaining adherence to all of these myriad of regulations. Mistakes obviously still do occur.......but with a noticeably extreme drop in frequency over the past 5-10 years.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I keep on hearing the criticism of O'Brien not starting Mancz at C last year after his 2016 success. Let me see if I can't shed some light on what some call "stubbornness" on the part of O'Brien to utilize Mancz.
When Mancz arrived to Houston in 2015, he did not participate in mini-camps and OTAs because he was still recovering from the surgery to repair his torn labrum. He did not officially suit up for the Texans until training camp of his rookie season. During that time, he played both guard and center, which was a big plus given the versatility Bill O’Brien sought from his players. Making the initial 53-man roster when training camp broke, Mancz was active three games before injuring his knee in practice in late October and was placed on IR. Much like the 2015 season, Mancz arrived to 2016 mini-camps and OTAs rehabbing an injury, this time his knee. He performed admirably well in 2016, enjoying an injury-free status throughout the season.
Last season Mancz was not so fortunate injury-wise. In a practice prior to week 4, he re-injured his knee, an injury for which caused him to miss week 4, 5, 6, and would not have been able to play in week 7, but this was the Bye. He tried to play in limited capacity in week 8, but his knee kept him out of week 9. He then tried to return again in week 10, but was again limited by his knee, but then not only aggravated his knee, but also sustained a re-injury of his repaired shoulder.........leading to him missing week 11 and 12. These 2 injuries dogged him the rest of the season.
When Mancz arrived to Houston in 2015, he did not participate in mini-camps and OTAs because he was still recovering from the surgery to repair his torn labrum. He did not officially suit up for the Texans until training camp of his rookie season. During that time, he played both guard and center, which was a big plus given the versatility Bill O’Brien sought from his players. Making the initial 53-man roster when training camp broke, Mancz was active three games before injuring his knee in practice in late October and was placed on IR. Much like the 2015 season, Mancz arrived to 2016 mini-camps and OTAs rehabbing an injury, this time his knee. He performed admirably well in 2016, enjoying an injury-free status throughout the season.
Last season Mancz was not so fortunate injury-wise. In a practice prior to week 4, he re-injured his knee, an injury for which caused him to miss week 4, 5, 6, and would not have been able to play in week 7, but this was the Bye. He tried to play in limited capacity in week 8, but his knee kept him out of week 9. He then tried to return again in week 10, but was again limited by his knee, but then not only aggravated his knee, but also sustained a re-injury of his repaired shoulder.........leading to him missing week 11 and 12. These 2 injuries dogged him the rest of the season.
@sarahbarshop 3m3 minutes ago Texans GM Brian Gaine says he is "fairly optimistic" that running back D'Onta Foreman will be ready for the start of next season. Foreman tore his Achilles in Week 11 against the Cardinals, during the best game of his rookie year. http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0760505801231045371-4…
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
All of these injury updates are mostly for PR purposes. They do not give us any useful information or predict performance even if these players do manage to begin the season. As far as Watson, I would be very concerned if he did not participate in OTAs (~7-8 months post injury) in some limited fashion...........most likely in passing drills that would not include him having to make sudden moves, cuts, etc........and certainly in no drills that would expose him to contact which may include avoiding even simple HB handoffs.
zshawn10
All Pro
SportsRadio 610
✔@SportsRadio610
Report: Fiedorowicz Will Report For #Texans Offseason Program http://houston.cbslocal.com/2018/02/28/report-fiedorowicz-will-report-for-texans-otas/ …
4:57 PM - Feb 28, 2018
✔@SportsRadio610
Report: Fiedorowicz Will Report For #Texans Offseason Program http://houston.cbslocal.com/2018/02/28/report-fiedorowicz-will-report-for-texans-otas/ …
4:57 PM - Feb 28, 2018
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ty-pozzobon-cte-death-1.4352228
I've had close to 30 concussions.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Helmets were never developed to prevent concussions...........and it has become quite obvious that they really don't........not even the newest technology helmets. The only things that helmets can prevent are skull fractures..........the function for which they were originally meant for to begin with.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This could be clear cut proof that Fiedo has had one too many.
Helmets threw my balance off. Just like vest's did.
developed for and marketed for aren't necessarily the same.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This could be clear cut proof that Fiedo has had one too many.
I realize it may not be the smartest decision but it's hard to pass up $5.15 mil.
And from the Texans perspective 2018 is guaranteed.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
April 24, 2017
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My brother had this condition back in the 70's and they just made him a pirate for a period of time and his lazy eye became much stronger. Is this no longer a non-surgical option? Just curious.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
[See my post following the one you quoted.........it speaks to "lazy eye" the lay term..........i.e., amblyopia the medical term.]
Too many causes of amblyopia to specifically comment on your brother's experience, but covering Watson's good eye would not miraculously cause his eyelid to elevate off of covering part of his pupil. The pirate technique is most likely to be of help when dealing with a "wandering eye"......a strabissimus muscular problem, in hopes that the muscles of the weak eye can be strengthened and retrained. Typically, if amblyopia has already not occurred, it can be corrected by correcting the source of not using the deficient eye. However, if the source is severe ptosis and is present at birth and addressed only after childhood, it seldom is reversible by surgery. When you see ptosis in particular occur first later in life or only very as is obvious with Watson (see high school picture compared to the most recent), the ptosis condition commonly becomes worse, the pupil becomes more covered, and eventually the patient will "turn off" the other eye to the brain because it is getting in the way of clear vision. However, in adulthood, simply surgically lifting the affected eyelid will uncover the pupil and allow the patient and his brain to readjust tote full peripheral field of vision once again..........since irreversible amblyopia has not occurred
If you want to prove this phenomenon, just tape one of your upper eyelids down from the side so that your upper lid covers half of your pupil. Then, read for a while and you will quickly notice that the annoyance causes you to start reading only using your untaped eye.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Checked with my older brother and it was muscular. Since I'm 6 years younger...not sure if he was kicked in the head or how this occurred. Thanks for the info.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Seems like a good candidate for a RT. However, his hamstring issue would definitely concern me. Although the exact nature of this hamstring injury has never been reported, it was severe enough to place him on IR in Nov. Furthermore, his injury was initially identified a "groin" injury with groin pain. This tells me an important piece of the puzzle.............that his proximal hamstring TENDON, not muscle, was partially torn or chronically shredding. Nonoperative treatment of proximal hamstring tendon injuries is most commonly recommended in the setting of low-grade partial tears and insertional tendinosis (chronic shredding/degeneration). In general, non-operative treatment in higher level athletes has not been effective, as up to 80% complain of ongoing cramping and weakness. Future surgery would seem to be a significant risk in taking James on.
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PapaL
Loose Screw
That other thread scared me for a second until I read your link. I was all what did we pay him?!?
I just wanted to see if I could articfically induce a record number of heart attacks on a single day.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Covington, who ruptured his distal biceps tendon in week 7 last season, has been fully cleared. This type of injury following surgery carries an excellent prognosis.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A quick progression of events for Derek Newton.
Newton was to get $3.5 million this season. The details of his restructured contract have not been revealed. A split contract for Newton would carry a minimum of $450,000 for 2018. This contract tells me that it is essentially a "prove it" year..........which the team does not expect to be proven. If he makes the team’s week one roster, his full salary is guaranteed for the rest of the season whether his contracts includes a split salary or not.
Newton was to get $3.5 million this season. The details of his restructured contract have not been revealed. A split contract for Newton would carry a minimum of $450,000 for 2018. This contract tells me that it is essentially a "prove it" year..........which the team does not expect to be proven. If he makes the team’s week one roster, his full salary is guaranteed for the rest of the season whether his contracts includes a split salary or not.
Max
Veteran
By being cut aren't they saying that he hasn't made the team's week one roster? Not sure I'm understanding