The differnce is Johnson/Hayneswoth were signed to relatively cheap contracts compared to what Green/Reed etc... got. This is why the Texans stay in cap jail and the Pats dont. It looks like this may be changing under BOB.
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All encompassing Rick Smith thread
- Thread starter djohn2oo8
- Start date
The differnce is Johnson/Hayneswoth were signed to relatively cheap contracts compared to what Green/Reed etc... got. This is why the Texans stay in cap jail and the Pats dont. It looks like this may be changing under BOB.
It's not like we swept the Colts when we went 12-4 or 10-6 & won the division.
Like I said, I've been keeping my Smith thoughts confined to this thread and the draft section lately. This seems appropriate to me.
You wouldn't have specific numbers would you? I don't think we broke the bank on Ed Reed.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Funny part is you still don't get it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
CJ was a mil cheaper than Green i.e. guat.
The Pats traded for Haynesworth's Redskins contract.
3 years $15 mil so no we didn't not break the bank. Reed's problem was lack of output not expense.
Blah Blah blah... that's easy
You only think your opinions are fact, not all of us do. And most don't waste their time trying to talk to you. I've told you many times that I like talking football with you, you don't appear to care to do that in any thread, not just this one. You seem to think you're the only dissatisfied fan here, and the only one with all the answers. I disagree with both
Funny part is you chose the AE Rick Smith thread to try to make this point. If I point out Rick's failures in other threads besides this one or the draft sections then this post would atleast have some validity and before you go back hunting up old posts of mine, I said that I've limited my criticism of Smith to these 2 things LATELY.
Sorry to see you perceive me this way. I know that I'm not going to change the way you look at me. So good day sir.
BTW, I realize I'm not the only fan that's dissatisfied or have all of the answers. Check out the draft sections, we throw things back and forth/disagree all of the time.
Agreed,
People like TS and many others thought Reed's $$$$ should've been spent on Quin. I wonder if AJ talked McNair into signing Reed? If so that would explain alot of the Texans FO issues.
yes I read every post in the draft sections...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We should have kept Quinn.
I think Reed, not literally, was a reaction to the letterman jackets. McNair felt we were really close and wanted a player who had 'been there.'
Good examples, but still does not disprove my overall point. The difference is picking up guys to be marginal role players instead of expecting them to be integral to the team's success. I do not see these situations as being equal in any way, but that's the way it goes when a team has a HoF QB and another team has nothing at the same position.
Belichick has always had great respect for Ed Reed. Why didn't they kick his tires? Haynesworth, and even Johnson, were thought to still had tread on their tires. Their problems were mental and Belichick thought he could motivate them. The Texans, on the other hand, have a history of picking up worn out tires that have nothing left to drive on (Reed, Green, Wilfork).
But, maybe y'all are right. The Patriots and Texans are exactly alike with front office decisions. One just really sucks at it.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Because YOU called me out by name here. Go make a sign and stand outside the stadium. It'll be more useful than spewing the same drivel here. But thanks for the lately. We appreciate it.
PS
I have no opinion of Smith. Like every GM, he's not batting 1000. Not a single person here knows what really happens in the FO.
So the point about signing Johnson/Haynesworth to relatively cheap contracts isn't "the difference" you originally stated it was.
& yes, the Texans should have recognized Quin was trending up, worth keeping. Where Manning was trending down & oblivious to his true value which we all realized shortly after. If I remember right, it wouldn't have cost much more, if any, to release Manning, sign Quinn, & still acquire Reed.
The Reed fiasco wouldn't have been so bad if we had at least one safety capable of doing his job.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
This is my official stance as well.
We keep blasting Rick for choosing Reed over Quin. For all we know is that Rick preferred Quin, but McNair wanted Reed!?
Keep in mind, Rick drafted Quin in the first place.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The problem with the Reed fiasco is McNair did not initially consult with Wade Phillips about Ed Reed. It was only after the Reed decision had been made when Wade was brought into the loop.
The fact that McNair sent his plane to pick up Reed tells you that it was a McNair decision.
Well... actually we do. We just don't like it. They pow wow, discuss, argue, grease palms, vote... come to concensus or defer to Bob McNair.
Rick Smith work is to acquire talent. The talent that the think-tank has graded, ranked, & prioritized.
Bill O'briens work is to manage & develop that talent.
The buck stops with Bob.
Would Eliot Wolfe consult with Wade? Would John Elway? Ozzie?
But I thought McNair was a hands off owner.
But I thought McNair was a hands off owner.
We keep hanging on to that idea for whatever reason, but he's never said as much.
His Coach & his GM are tasked to work together. If there's any disagreement they can't get past, McNair tells them which way to go.
He's been clear & upfront about it from the beginning.
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PapaL
Loose Screw
One thing I'd like to clarify. My post you quoted was very specific in one point:
"And these teams never wasted their time with aged players way past their primes."
The primary point was "way past their primes". Chad Johnson and Haynesworth (and Ted Johnson) were not widely considered past their primes, much less way past their primes, when NE acquired them.
Ed Reed and Wilfork, on the other hand, were considered and reported as being past their primes and the Texans were very open about them being able to TEACH more than perform on the field.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
TBH, I'd be surprised if there's ANY franchise in the NFL where the owner is completely hands off.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Doesn't happen.
Or in any sport or business... wouldn't be reasonable
Scooter
Funky
I say it with all due respect, but the Superbowl Champs come to mind.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Who says? Just the because we don't hear? You really think he wasn't in on the decision to bring in Manning? You don't think Elway talked to him before firing Fox? - and got his approval to bring in Kubiak?
Scooter
Funky
There are reports that because of memory loss Bowlen had turned the team over to Elway with the hiring of John Fox - a year before Manning showed up.
Not the point I meant to make though, just that the team to win the Superbowl did so essentially without an owner having any input for that season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ok - absent illness.
That's all a pretty unusual circumstance as well. Elway & Kubiak are almost family to the Bowlens. And it just got stronger. Those 2 are now the team that has brought the Bowlens 3 Lombardis.
That's all a pretty unusual circumstance as well. Elway & Kubiak are almost family to the Bowlens. And it just got stronger. Those 2 are now the team that has brought the Bowlens 3 Lombardis.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That's about as lame an excuse as any I've see. Jackets didn't cost one snap of one play. It's a diversion which takes away from solving the real problems.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
See those two words in there, "not literally?"
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I thought you were talking about Reed, not the jackets.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I've always wondered how much influence Dan Reeves had when he was brought in back in December 2005. He coached Kubiak for 8 years in Denver. Kubiak was friends with Smith. Was it Reeves that set up the structure of this entire organization back then?
I have nothing against Dan, I just think it's time to move on from that blue print.
I have nothing against Dan, I just think it's time to move on from that blue print.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Rick Smith sucks!!! 
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Another coaching branch from the Tom Landry Tree. I remember a time where multiple players on that field wound up as NFL Head Coaches.
This is a very good question.
Maybe I'm wrong about this, so I want to get your opinion.
Let's say the decision has already been made that we're going to go after Brock Osweiler. He's our number one priority. You're Rick Smith & you've been tasked with making it happen.
Do you think you can sell the Houston Texans as the next Denver Broncos? That with him our chances of winning a Super Bowl is greater than Denver's ability to win one without him? That he, Brock Osweiler, is the difference between the Houston Texans & the Denver Broncos?
Let's say the decision has already been made that we're going to go after Brock Osweiler. He's our number one priority. You're Rick Smith & you've been tasked with making it happen.
Do you think you can sell the Houston Texans as the next Denver Broncos? That with him our chances of winning a Super Bowl is greater than Denver's ability to win one without him? That he, Brock Osweiler, is the difference between the Houston Texans & the Denver Broncos?
I believe $$$$$ talks and Osweiler will go where the $$$$ is. Just like 99% of the players in the NFL.
I believe $$$$$ talks and Osweiler will go where the $$$$ is. Just like 99% of the players in the NFL.
So, Ben Jones agrees with Titans. Ivory agrees with Jacksonville. Bruce Irvin agrees with Raiders.
Either Rick is really good at keeping a secret, or he's sleeping at the wheel. Looks like we're falling behind Slick Rick couldn't close the deal.
But... Lamar Miller talk has pretty much ceased, maybe we struck a deal. Same with Osweiler. We'll find out tomorrow at 3.
Godfather, or Forest Gump.
Either Rick is really good at keeping a secret, or he's sleeping at the wheel. Looks like we're falling behind Slick Rick couldn't close the deal.
But... Lamar Miller talk has pretty much ceased, maybe we struck a deal. Same with Osweiler. We'll find out tomorrow at 3.
Godfather, or Forest Gump.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
So far, it's nothing surprising. Getting one of the top FA RBs is only a plus, as I'm sure it's hard to convince guys at that position to sign a FA deal.
I think there are better options than Jones, Mack in particular is someone we should be pushing hard for considering we have to cap space. He would be a huge addition.
Obviously, resigning Brooks is a priority as well.
My point in listing the "FA" that have agreed in principle is just to show that it isn't too early for players & teams to agree on terms, even though we've yet to hear of one FA signing from the Texans other than signing our own low value targets.
Maybe we've decided we didn't want Jones or Brooks at market value. That's the hard part of trying to decipher who's responsible for what decision.
Or even who we target & the priority we place on particular FAs. Does O'b want Osweiler, is it McNair forcing Rick's hand, or is Rick pushing a QB on O'b?
What we do know is Rick is in charge of executing the plan. Negotiating with FAs, closing the deal.
Compared to other GMs, we're not looking to good. We were interested in Ivory, he's going to sign with Jacksonville. Maybe we bowed out of the race as things were progressing well with Miller. But Miller isn't a Texans yet.
Like I said, it's likely Rick is better at keeping secrets than the Jags.
Brooks isn't signed. If we were ahead on that deal, there's no reason we couldn't officially be done. Signed sealed delivered.
Jones... better options, maybe.
We'll find out tomorrow, 3pm if Rick is any good at his job.
Maybe we've decided we didn't want Jones or Brooks at market value. That's the hard part of trying to decipher who's responsible for what decision.
Or even who we target & the priority we place on particular FAs. Does O'b want Osweiler, is it McNair forcing Rick's hand, or is Rick pushing a QB on O'b?
What we do know is Rick is in charge of executing the plan. Negotiating with FAs, closing the deal.
Compared to other GMs, we're not looking to good. We were interested in Ivory, he's going to sign with Jacksonville. Maybe we bowed out of the race as things were progressing well with Miller. But Miller isn't a Texans yet.
Like I said, it's likely Rick is better at keeping secrets than the Jags.
Brooks isn't signed. If we were ahead on that deal, there's no reason we couldn't officially be done. Signed sealed delivered.
Jones... better options, maybe.
We'll find out tomorrow, 3pm if Rick is any good at his job.
Think about our F/A history. We've always let the first wave of "expensive" or "big name" F/A go by. As I recall, we've done better by waiting for the splashy signings to cease and get better value for our spending. Getting D.Manning and J-Jo instead of blowing our wad of cash on Revis comes to mind.
I'm just saying that I'll be surprised if we break with our previous modus operandi and snag one of the guys in that expensive first wave.
Of course, that was back in the Kubiak days; who knows what/who O'Brien is pushing for now that McNair has put out the edict: "Thou Shalt Get me a QB!"
I'm just saying that I'll be surprised if we break with our previous modus operandi and snag one of the guys in that expensive first wave.
Of course, that was back in the Kubiak days; who knows what/who O'Brien is pushing for now that McNair has put out the edict: "Thou Shalt Get me a QB!"
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Remember though, we pushed hard for Nnamdi, but then very quickly switched direction to get JJo and Manning.
I suspect we'll be mentioned with the first wavers this year, with Osweiler, Miller, and maybe some other guys.
I heard on XM radio that San Diego are the front runners for Travis Benjamin.
I'm betting we don't get either Brock Osweiler or Lamar Miller.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'd relax TK. If you haven't heard anything about us its because we're not getting bent over.
All the contracts that are "done deals" up to this point have been guys getting serious cheese.
I'd rather negotiate and risk not getting a guy than write a blank check and put ourselves in cap hell.
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Ben Jones $3.5M year, that's not serious cheese.
Chris Ivory, $6.5M/year... that's not serious cheese. It's what we've reportedly offered for Miller... but I hear he's talking to the Cowboys.
But yes... I need to relax. This freak'n eCig just ain't cutting it today.
Chris Ivory, $6.5M/year... that's not serious cheese. It's what we've reportedly offered for Miller... but I hear he's talking to the Cowboys.
But yes... I need to relax. This freak'n eCig just ain't cutting it today.