infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't know. Neither do you.
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All encompassing Rick Smith thread
- Thread starter djohn2oo8
- Start date
I don't know. Neither do you.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Smith is in control of personnel or atleast should be. That's his job. I'd imagine that he takes information given to him by the coaches and uses it, but it's his job to use all the information at hand, present all options and alternatives to the coaching staff, and make a final decision. That's how it should be anyway, and evidence points to that as Smith stayed when Kubiak was let go. He and McNair's words were damn near identical when explaining that move. Additionally, McNair said that we had "the best talent we have ever had," yet said the team's performance was unacceptable. Obviously, we can only speculate.
If Kubiak presents the option of obtaining Schaub from Atlanta, and Smith cannot find a better option and then proceeds with the move, it's on Smith. I don't fault coaches for having opinions, or atleast we shouldn't.
If there is disagreement in this, which there probably is as it is impossible to know the structure of the organization entirely, my earlier question applies. What does Rick Smith do?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
If Rick isn't allowed to make the final decision on personnel, regardless of his coaches' opinions on players, the blame is on McNair, pure and simple.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
'Should be' and 'are' are two very different things.
Y'all are stuck on one way of doing things.
Y'all are stuck on one way of doing things.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Of course, but we cannot answer that question as it is only as it should be. Perhaps, the organizational structure is the issue, but I can't believe for a second that Kubiak or OB is able to override Smith on a personnel decision. If so, our problems are far deeper than I imagined or can be remedied.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maybe so. Kubiak wanted Schaub but Smith decided to give him a new contract. Pick your poison.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Well for one, we do know that BOB has final say on the 53, right? So when it came down to Rolle vs James for that final spot, it was BOBs decision to stick with Rolle.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
This goes back to the essence of your earlier question. Kubiak may have wanted Schaub, but is he able to make the move even when Smith doesn't want to do that move? Did Kubiak want Schaub and Smith took that information, weighed his options, and made the final decision? For the record, I liked that move. They made a decision on an important player and made their move on him. Schaub was very good for awhile and was one of the factors, if not the main factor, in our most successful two seasons in the NFL. He was successful even when our talent on offense wasn't on par with the top offenses.
I'd rather pick the Rick Smith poison because it's potentially replaceable, although he looks less and less replaceable as the years go by. McNair is not replaceable until death.
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TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Explain this further.
I assume that an NFL organization operates on a bottom up strategic model. Management takes all information from their workforce (coaches, scouts, etc) and selects the most promising strategies to move forward with. Managers are responsible for the decisions, even if ideas are generated at the lowest level of the organization, as management makes the final decision.
A top down strategic model assumes even more responsibility on upper management, as well as less input from lower level employees. That's not what I am assume is going on within the Texans organization. This is probably something we can all agree to as the top level of management within the organization doesn't seem to be responsible for much of anything. Then again, I suppose this is possible and if so, the Texans are screwed. This would mean that top level managers are never fired for poor performance due to whatever relationship they have with the owner.
P.S. Marshall seems to be confused or outdated in his assessment of what modern organizational strategic planning is all about. That or he is confused as to what people are suggesting is happening within the Texans organization. It's rare to non existent (I would argue completely non existent outside of the military) to have a large (or even medium sized) organization operate on an autocratic management model. It's not competitive. Although, thinking more on it, that style of management would only survive in an industry in which there are enormous barriers to entry and in which success in comparison to competitors isn't necessarily a driver to profit. So, it's possible in the NFL. Still, I don't see it anywhere, even in the worst organizations.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Organizations vary. Not sure why folks think they are all the same.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Perhaps it is outdated, but entrepreneurs generally find they have been successful using an autocratic style because they are driven to make the right decision 75% of the time while mature industries tend to survive even with only half their decisions being the right one, thus favoring the blame sharing benefits of consensus.
But these are dated statistics and observations to be sure. They were useful while I was punching computer cards and waiting for them to be run on a mainframe. That Fortran was an interesting language.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Organizations vary over industries but typically they are generally similar in their strategic model within the same industry unless they are very, very successful or very, very unsuccessful.
I guess I prefer to assume not all is lost in my hope that this team becomes elite.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
For small businesses, sure. This is no small business.
You mean like IBM, Apple and Microsoft? What NFL team wants to be successful like them?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Yep. They started out as creative upstarts and eventually transformed into corporate marketing props. It's the way of business.You mean like IBM, Apple and Microsoft? What NFL team wants to be successful like them?
The conversation was about how much "better" the Colts are. & while it's not the ultimate goal, consistently beating the mid-level teams is the next logical step on the way towards being a true contender year in, year out.
We're mediocre. The Colts are mediocre. 8-8 teams that win 10~11 games a year because our division sucks. We need to consistently WI 13~15 games a year if we're going to be true contenders.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
You mean like IBM, Apple and Microsoft? What NFL team wants to be successful like them?
Autocratic leadership only took those companies so far, furthest in the case of Apple and Jobs. A very, very successful company. Even still, they evolved to rely heavily on their employees, as it is impossible for one person or small group of persons to continually innovate more successfully than their competition. All these companies use employee and consumer input to drive the development of products.
It's also a very different industry than the NFL.
Took them to the heights of industry. It's only after they got "so big" that they fell off. Apple showed a profit today, btw.
I completely agree that it's a different animal in the NFL. I'm into the Rooney/ Kraft model of ownership. I'm against the Davis/Adams method.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Apple hasn't fallen off. Look at their cash reserves and their new products. Apple TV is likely to dominate the TV market, their iPhones are selling at a higher average price than ever before and they sold more than ever before. They lead the industry in small computing sales and their MacBook sales aren't falling off as quickly as PC sales. They are also poised to make waves in the automobile industry. There was recently a 60 minutes on Apple that showed a very collaborative effort in their development of products, as well as their management model.
Again, the industry is completely different as you agreed.
I agree that we are majoring on minors regarding the NFL. LOL
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
True, went off on a bit of a tangent there.
badboy
Hall of Fame
TK I do get your point but how do 8-8 teams win 10- 11 games a year?
TK I do get your point but how do 8-8 teams win 10- 11 games a year?
Playing in the AFC South. That's why the Colts or Texans lose by 30 to the Patriots even if they are 11-5
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm not arguing which is best. Only that there are various styles of management which can be successful in the right circumstances. To restrict oneself to a single style and say THAT is the only way to do it is just wrong. The best MANAGE and ADJUST to optimize their opportunities to the environment at hand. Sometimes that includes STYLE.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Hyperbole!
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
So the record isn't a fair comparison? One team has the STAR QB and one does not and have essentially the same record. Are you saying that one is clearly superior to the other? If so, I'm not buying.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
We know OB has final say over the 53 (I guess), but that doesn't have to mean over the 53. Didn't hard knocks show that it was a consensus decision to keep Rolle, primarily because of RS input? I don't think there is just one guy in charge of personnel on the team
If you get a chance, listen to Sean Jones' new radio show on AM 790 in the afternoons.
He's dishing some dirt and does not have the shackles of working for the Texans flagship station.
He is saying the same thing about McNair being the true GM and Smith just being his right hand yes-man. This would explain why Smith is Teflon at this point. He only does what his boss tells him to do.
Sean Jones told about very interesting and insightful experience with the early Texans. He was interviewed by Casserly to be a capologist when the franchise was started. He was asked point blank who he'd draft, and he said Julius Peppers. The mentality was that an expansion team would suck for at least a couple of years, so Jones' perspective was to draft a badass defensive player that would be here for 10-15 years. Build the team and then get a QB, because you are most likely picking high over the next several drafts. He said Casserly told him that they were leaning toward David Carr, but were very unsure about it. But, the owner wanted a face of the franchise and a QB could easily be that face. Here's yet another example of a marketing company with a football division.
Jones also said that he knows for a fact that both Casserly and Smith were recommendations by the NFL front office in New York. This tells me that McNair is not really qualified to pick a GM. He listens to advisers, the way most successful corporate CEOs do with boardroom mentalities.
What is really important to this owner? Consecutive sellouts? Color coordinated jerseys and themed games? Merchandise sales where you can find 200+ products with Texans logos on them? This organization certainly earns an A++ in marketing, gameday experiences, and customer service. You know, those things that big corporations do J.D. Power and Associates studies to evaluate and perfect. These are things that you can completely control, unlike the outcome on the field of play.
This quote speaks volumes:
“Frankly, I’m not concerned with what the record is,” McNair said. “I’m concerned about winning the division. That’s what counts – whatever it takes to get there.”
Winning the divisions means jack squat in the bigger picture. Yay, another pretty banner for his football palace, but that's about it when your team gets its ass handed to them 30-0 in a playoff game. There is no hope in that outcome as a fan. It feels like eating whipped cream for dinner. Eat enough of it and you puke.
The more I think about them not picking a QB with 1.1 and opting instead for the likes of Fitzpatrick and Hoyer...honestly, it just disgusts me as a football fan. Nobody can convince me that either of these losers are better than Bridgewater, Carr, or even Bortles. What the hell? They go the "safe" pick and listen to all the media talking heads about "once in a generation player" garbage in spite of reservations by his college coach, injuries, and the eye test. And I have yet to see anything in the dude that suggests that he's at the level of "once in a generation player" when he actually makes it on the field.
It is clear that McNair is making fundamental decisions. Probably not all of them, but crucial ones that waste seasons. Extending David Carr and forcing Kubiak to spend his first year as HC dealing with him. Getting personally involved with contracts and our "legacy player" Andre Johnson. Hiring Wade Phillips. Signing Ed Reed and picking him up with his personal jet. Firing Kubiak mid-season so he could rush to get his Belichick disciple. I have little doubt that the decisions to get South Carolina Gamecock Clowney has McNair's fingerprints all over it.
Call me a heretic, call me a hater, I don't give a crap. I call it like I perceive it, and I have nothing to suggest that competent FOOTBALL people are truly running this organization after closely watching everything for 14 seasons.
The Colts were in the 2014 AFC Championship game and only lost to the eventual Super Bowl champions.
That's not mediocre.
They only fell back this year because the most important position on the field was hobbled with injuries. I have no doubt that they will be back next year stronger than ever with a healthy Luck.
Meanwhile, the hapless Texans still need a QB....
Texian
Hall of Fame
Dead-on balls accurate, and you say it and explain it so much better than I do. I agree 100%. Thanks! I will try to listen....
I'm all for building a team to win the division because it's the only guaranteed way to get into the playoffs. Records mean squat when it comes to that. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.
P.S. It's sounding more and more like you're letting this team get to you like the Oiler's did. I thought you weren't going to take this game so seriously anymore. Just an observation.
Texian
Hall of Fame
This picture of the Texans Draft Room goes a long way in confirming with no doubt who is charge on draft day.
Attachments
![920x1240[1].jpg](/data/attachments/0/327-35429bd269c7b7688061a2abcce79964.jpg)
In some ways you're right, but in others my thoughts are only in the context of this forum. It's not like any of this mess actually affects my real world life or emotions. Nobody beyond all of y'all even know what I think about any of it. I do not feel compelled to convince anyone of anything in real life, or even on this forum. I'm just expressing thoughts based on the last 14 seasons as an observer.
It's the frustration of redundancy with an entertainment medium. If my favorite band puts out a crappy album, I don't listen to it. Same if a favorite actor stars in a chick flick. I just don't see it. I guess the equivalent with a football team is apathy and to not really pay attention anymore. Due to the perpetual mediocrity and apparent status quo mentality of the Houston Texans front office, I find myself enjoying NFL games more than I do Texans games. I DVR Texans games and tend to watch the entire thing in 30-40 minutes. There is no passion in that, only a sort of sad ambivalence. But, I can sit for a full three hours and watch (and enjoy) other games when the teams are obviously striving for something that the Texans have never been.
I'll go keeping 1.1 and choosing Clown.
Do you really think they will move RS up and or out and name a new GM?
Yeah Gaines hasn't been here 8 years. And no one else thinks McNair is a football guru
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I've said this million times over and over, the job of the gm is to get the kind of players the coach wants and needs. When a new coach is hired, he has a profile of the type of player he wants in terms of size,body,etc.. The gm passes this profile to the scouts to look for these "types" of players. I've talked to Pat Kirwan, Phil Savage, and a host of former GMs and they will tell you the same. If you get a player that doesnt fit with the coach, he's not gonna play him. If you look at the players Smith help draft under Kubes and now under BOB, their different. Thats why people say he's a yes man.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I've said this million times over and over, the job of the gm is to get the kind of players the coach wants and needs. When a new coach is hired, he has a profile of the type of player he wants in terms of size,body,etc.. The gm passes this profile to the scouts to look for these "types" of players. I've talked to Pat Kirwan, Phil Savage, and a host of former GMs and they will tell you the same. If you get a player that doesnt fit with the coach, he's not gonna play him. If you look at the players Smith help draft under Kubes and now under BOB, their different. Thats why people say he's a yes man.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
So all GM's are yes men?
Nope, people say he's a yes man because of his draft failures throughout the yrs and still keeping his job despite these failures.
What you say is true, but Smith has been a failure at finding guys that can play within the perameters set by the HC. This has been going on thru 2 HC's now. Last yrs draft was a good one, it makes me think somebody locked Smith in a closet for 3 days during the draft.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
A
Really? Smith or Kubiak one found an OL that worked. They found TEs that worked. They found RBs who knew you could cut back. They picked up a discard WR who was a great possession WR for a 7th and a pro bowl center for a 7th. Our entire OL other than the guy OB doesn't want to play is Smith/Kubiak. And he won't use them for what they were trained to do.
Yep Smith has done a great job.
The excitement of 30-0 still has me in the I cant wait for another 6% increase type of offseason mode.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
On the basis of a QB OB picked.
Although it's true Hoyer is the biggest part of the problem, he's far from the only problem and most of those lie at the feet of the McNair's/Smith.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So you say. Loudly. Repeatedly. Vociferously. ...
You forgot Goodell. Not wearing your shirt today?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Yes Man.
I'm not the one who brought up the topic and have tried to stay away because people know my feelings on this subject. Glad to see you agree with me though. LOL
So you think God'ell is good for the game and fair/balanced?