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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
In other words, don't try to have an objective discussion with you. It is all about fandom, not football expertise. That's what I thought.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
So, why aren't you GM'ing a team yet then? And what are you doing on a fan message board?
Good one. Do you share your opinion here? Are you a GM?
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
You're the one talking **** to someone for being a fan, not me.
I'm a fan, and no matter how much football "expertise" I think I gain by reading real experts, watching film, or participating in discussions, in the end I'm still an amateur. As I suspect are you. That's why I pretty much subscribe to the entire two messages @The Pencil Neck wrote.
I think history shows we were on the right track. I know we went 6-10 just after that comment, but the wheels didn't really fall off for three seasons after. Those were some pretty good teams that just never put it all together.
As far as changing my tune... I do it all the time. Nothing new. 2015 draft I'd have had no problem taking either Winston or Mariota with the #1 over all. 2014 I wasn't feeling any of the QBs before 16. Still, I valued McCarran, Murray, & Mettenberger higher than two of three of the first rounders.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
I think, as a fan, the Texans are shell shocked after investing 5 years each ( give or take) in Carr then Schawb.
Top-down from Bob to Cal & Rick. Enter Bill O' Brian who has to make due with lower ceiling yet somewhat experienced/proven talent. I'm hoping that he becomes more assertive in talent acquisition.
Top-down from Bob to Cal & Rick. Enter Bill O' Brian who has to make due with lower ceiling yet somewhat experienced/proven talent. I'm hoping that he becomes more assertive in talent acquisition.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
By typical NFL standards, Schaub was a success. Finding a QB is the biggest challenge. So many things have to work right at the right time. Do you have the guy at the right time in his career? Does your scheme match his skills? Are you missing on a great QB on your PS because he gets no snaps? How is it that stories like Tony Romo and Kurt Warner are possible? How many more slip through the cracks?
I mentioned in another thread, The Bears started 17 QB's while the Packers had Favre. Then the Packers just moved on to Rodgers. The Cowboys had 10 or so after Aikman until they basically lucked into Romo. And these were just the teams I cared to look up. I bet this is the norm.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Problem is timing of extensions. It's a constant evaluation process. Clearly there was regression with both players that was irreversible.
I don't know. Who would you have taken at 27 in 2013?
I still like Matt, Murray, & McCarran as much as Bottles & Manziel, if OB prefers Savage... I'm ok with that. Yeah, id just as soon have Savage as Garropolo or Carr, if OB thinks he can be a starter (meaning he's a prospect).
2015... what are we talking about? Should we have moved up? I'd have been pushing for it had Marital or Winston dropped past 10.
On one hand, I'm appreciative of OB's approach to the QB position. Too many people are looking for that savior. Even Peyton Manning had a hard time doing it on his own. I appreciate that we haven't hitched ourselves to anyone & we're keeping our options open. But Fitz? Hoyer? I think we wasted more cap space on those two clowns that could have been better spent on other FAs, our own FAs, or some of the guys who we decided not to pay (OD).
If they were Kublai's players that couldn't play; Schaub, Manning... but OD could still play.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
There was no injury. Just really bad play by Fitzy.
I was on board for the Clowney selection, but I was also hopeful we would get Bridgewater and when he was within grasp I held my breathe as I thought for once we were going to catch a break and get both. But we all know how that turned out. Personally I think it was a huge mistake not moving up to get TB when he was there for the taking.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Seriously?
Listen, please, I beg you, put me on your ignore list. I had you on my ignore list, along with Lord Bills, for several years. Unfortunately in this new forum I can't ignore staff members, or I'd put you back there.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The missing element in the QB discussions seems to be the difference in QBs from year to year. Savage 2014 is not Savage 2015. Mallet 2014 is not Mallet 2015 and Hoyer 2014 is not Hoyer 2015. Being close to even does not make them bad, it makes them equal or nearly so. All could be the same, worse or better. I'm hoping for better and some are confined by pessimism to same or worse.
I'm in the camp that would like to have traded up for Bridgewater at the BOTTOM of the first. But it looked like he would fall to us without giving up a draft pick. I can't fault Smith for that.
I'm in the camp that would like to have traded up for Bridgewater at the BOTTOM of the first. But it looked like he would fall to us without giving up a draft pick. I can't fault Smith for that.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This is the biggest problem on this site other than staff selection.
Number19
Hall of Fame
OB was brought in and had limited time to evaluate the talent already on the team and the prospects coming out in that year's draft. He drafted a quarterback. He signed two veteran quarterbacks. He went 9-7 for the season.
Draft two he chose not to draft a quarterback, but he did make a move at the position. He released one of the veteran quarterbacks he had signed the previous year and signed his third veteran quarterback. We're close to concluding his second training camp and we've seen the expected improvement in the quarterback he did draft two years ago.
What more could OB have done in the time he has had?
Remember the movie Draft Day. The owner who wants to make a splash and the coach who hates to start a rookie quarterback.
We have a winning coach who will make changes when needed, but it's his team and he'll put the pieces in place.
Draft two he chose not to draft a quarterback, but he did make a move at the position. He released one of the veteran quarterbacks he had signed the previous year and signed his third veteran quarterback. We're close to concluding his second training camp and we've seen the expected improvement in the quarterback he did draft two years ago.
What more could OB have done in the time he has had?
Remember the movie Draft Day. The owner who wants to make a splash and the coach who hates to start a rookie quarterback.
We have a winning coach who will make changes when needed, but it's his team and he'll put the pieces in place.
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Grams
Veteran
Some of you guys get so bent out of shape for something you have absolutely no control over.
This is just a game, just entertainment.
You can waste your time and energy getting upset because someone does not agree with your opinion. If your opinions were valid, you would not be here, but working for an NFL team. *****, moan, groan, whine all you want but in the end it has absolutely no effect on anything other than your own state of being. There is no point in getting upset because the Texans did not draft who you wanted, or did not name a starter who you wanted. They will do what they want, when they want and how they want. They will either win or lose games. Doesn't matter, real life will go on.
Take a deep breath, count to 10 and chill out. After all it is still just a game.
All most people want is, to come to this board to get info on the Texans and to discuss the Texans. Not get into a pissing contest or read the pissing contest of other posters. This is getting old, really fast.
This is just a game, just entertainment.
You can waste your time and energy getting upset because someone does not agree with your opinion. If your opinions were valid, you would not be here, but working for an NFL team. *****, moan, groan, whine all you want but in the end it has absolutely no effect on anything other than your own state of being. There is no point in getting upset because the Texans did not draft who you wanted, or did not name a starter who you wanted. They will do what they want, when they want and how they want. They will either win or lose games. Doesn't matter, real life will go on.
Take a deep breath, count to 10 and chill out. After all it is still just a game.
All most people want is, to come to this board to get info on the Texans and to discuss the Texans. Not get into a pissing contest or read the pissing contest of other posters. This is getting old, really fast.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Savage is seeing most of the playing time this pre-season. We'll have to see, but OB has said he's not going to change his game plan for New Orleans. Can it be that OB is already forward thinking and already evaluating whether Savage has what it takes to be his QB in the future? Or will he be forced to take a QB in the draft next year?
My point is, OB knows what he wants in a QB and seemingly will not stand pat until he finds his QB.
My point is, OB knows what he wants in a QB and seemingly will not stand pat until he finds his QB.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I wonder how much is projection of our hopes rather than a reading of our coach. So much of of sports history is a product of the right people at the right time AND with the right opportunity.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I agree with you and said so last year, but there has been talent and 2 years is the limit (also said at the time).
The QB situation is not a vacuum. There's an entire team aging around the spot and the NFL is time sensitive both in immediate gratification and short career longevity.
To soon to call yet but the possibility exists OB is one of those folks who put less stock in QBs. He may think $5-10 mil for a rotation of yeoman is better than $18 for a top 1/3rd. I've never seen that approach work for prolonged success even if there have been a couple lightning strikes for SBs. Dilfer - gone the same season. Johnson - 1 more year starting and done.
Or maybe he is taking the Patriots/Belichick model too literally and doesn't realize Belichick made a deal with the devil:
Wow, there's excuse making.
So did he not have sufficient time to evaluate him either?
Huh?
And could have gone 11+ with a top 10 QB.
Or put another way, signed 2 QBs whose every team has desperately tried not to start them and have replaced ASAP (or been fired for keeping). "Vet" is not always a positive thing. Matt 'Ole' Stevens and Victor 'Turnstyle' Riley were "vets" too. Sometimes it means trash.
The part that bothers me about these two throws is on guy kind of threw into coverage. On Mallett's pass, if the LB had been turned around, he could have picked that off. Hoyer's pass was too the outside where no one but the RB had a chance at it.
I agree it must have been a designed play - a quick-hitter - to the RB. At 3rd & 1 they only needed the RB to beat the LB to the sticks to keep the chains moving. Other giveaways are (a) Hoyer had the ball out as soon as he completed his 3rd step and (b) Hoyer never really looked anywhere else. If you don't throw that pass on time, the window closes and the play fails.
Which of the two guys did Belichick step in and tell to calm down, his coordinator or his QB?This is what happens when a qb challenges O'Brien:
Yeah, Mallett challenging the qb sneak call probably would have gone well.
...just askin'
Then Savage can save us!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Doubt Mallett gets skipped.
But Hoyer better get rid of the ball fast. They've had 54 and 57 sacks the last 2 season, 1st and 2nd in the league. For reference we had 38 last season. If Brown's out and they play shift everyone with the OL Hoyer might want a flak jacket.
Or... Brian Hoyer is OB's guy. Everything some of us thought about Mallett last year applies to Hoyer this year. We don't like it, but you may be right & OB's plan was to get "his" QB by year 2.
He may very well think he has the best QB in the league right now. You'd think so considering how sensitive he's been about the whole situation.
You should really say what you mean and stop beating around the bush.
You should really say what you mean and stop beating around the bush.
Yes. The "True Fan" posts are always very passionate.
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Number19
Hall of Fame
No excuse - a simple statement of fact.
Again, a simple statement of what occurred.
Fitz and Mallett
You're fantasizing. You don't know this.
Again, you're speculating and fantasizing. OB is the coach. It is what it is. You either watch the Texans come Sunday or you go and do something else. Why get yourself all up in knots over something you have no control over. At this time of the year, simply enjoy the team McNair, Smith and OB have put together. Next spring before the draft is the time for wishful thinking. Or not.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Please. The entire staff whose job it is to do that stayed just about. In picking a QB OB had no disadvantage.
There were 5 QBs drafted in the 1st 3 rounds 2014. 14 in the entire draft. It wasn't an overwhelming job.
Mallett was neither signed nor a vet in any meaningful sense of the word plus he was brought in too late.
A fantasy shared by damn near everyone.
Now here you're just wrong. The track record of both Fitz and Hoyer is well known. Each has been considered and started by multiple staffs and found wanting.
Spare me. This is a MB. It's not just for flag waving, draftniking and depth chart speculation. I care a whole lot more about the starting QB than I do about who's the 53rd man on the roster. That's not being knotted, just discussion. I wish for the best every weekend. In between is for discussion.
The having me on ignore thing was almost devastating until I remembered what someone said about the Browns not even wanting Hoyer at quarterback: "He doesn't fit the Browns system? Isn't that a good thing?"
I know I irritated you, probably as much as you irritated me with the usual misstatement/misquote that is made whenever first round quarterbacks are brought up: "As one of the people who's not in favor of following the model of drafting any QB and trying to convince yourself he's a franchise guy". I doubt anyone has ever said draft any QB in the first round and bang! He's franchise. I know I haven't.
It is a neat trick though that you ignore me but still quote me in posts. Frankly, if you hadn't quoted me I wouldn't have responded to you anyway. And that is where I say mea culpa. I should have just ignored the post and applied Hanlon's Razor like I finally started doing last year every time that misstatement was made.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
I think this is a little exaggerated. Hoyer was signed at the very end of the season by the Steelers and Cardinals to replace injured starters and thrown in with no knowledge of the system or rapport with his teammates. He wasn't brought in to start and then found wanting by Pittsburgh. He was signed to be their backup after they lost the top two qb's on their roster and reduced to their third stringer. He was brought into Arizona three games before the year ended and ended up the starter on merit, not because of injury. 2013 in Cleveland is the first time he was with a team with a chance to start in training camp -- for a team on their third head coach in five years. He then had a different head coach and offensive system last year.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Interesting. I wasn't aware of Hoyer's situation in Pittsburg and Arizonia. Thanks.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Call it what you want.
Pittsburgh - no starts, neither he nor Batch were retained as backups for 2013.
Arizona - a team with him under contract and desperate at QB released him. FYI - Kolb was injured. But yes Lindley was benched after a 4 INT game.
Browns - 2 HCs found him wanting and attempted to replace/did replace him.
The last alone makes my statement correct - he has had opportunities to start under multiple HCs and been found wanting.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Umm the first head coach in Cleveland didn't replace him. Hoyer went from third on the depth chart to starter by week 3, put up very solid numbers, then tore his ACL. The next year was Manziel mania.
Of course Pittsburgh didn't resign him. They cut him once Big Ben and Leftwich were healthy.
Arizona had a new coach and staff in 2013 and signed Carson Palmer instead -- not a bad move considering how effective he was last year until he went down to injury.
Of course Pittsburgh didn't resign him. They cut him once Big Ben and Leftwich were healthy.
Arizona had a new coach and staff in 2013 and signed Carson Palmer instead -- not a bad move considering how effective he was last year until he went down to injury.
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xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
That's how the throws were set up. The RB's weren't running the same routes. That's like praising a running back for getting to the edge and criticizing another for going between the tackles when that's what plays were called.
It wasn't a great throw by mallett. Blue probably should have caught it though.
And you can say "if the defender would have done this" about a lot of throws in the NFL. They often times throw into tight windows.
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xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Or Hoyer did a poor job making a pre snap read.
You have Keyshawn running a slant nothing in the middle of the field. The DB is way back off the line. Even if Hoyer thinks the LB is guarding him for some reason, it's still a LB on a WR.
Odd the way the staff around here seems to rub people the wrong way & openly non-apologetic about it. Must be a new business model. Customer always right my ass.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ummm, you ain't customers.
Also ordinary posts are as MB members not staff. Runner has been operating as a MB member in this thread
I have apologized. But not every complaint deserves an apology.
This would be a staff post. My others on Hoyer Mallett etc. have not.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Brian Hoyer is a good quarterback and better than anybody else we've had. I'm excited about him leading us to the Super Bowl. He's going to have an All Pro season and prove a lot of people wrong. His accuracy and throwing arm are unmatched in the league. He's been saving himself for the regular season. Preseason doesn't mean much to me.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Maybe you should also mention how much moderators get paid to babysit total strangers.
Edit: Not picking on you, TK, I just think mods should get some slack for doing this for free.
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I don't mind the way they moderate. It's when they rub TT patrons the wrong way as message board posters. On a smaller scale, its no different than these assholes we got running around with guns & badges shooting our citizens with impunity. Who watches the watchmen, know what I mean?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In no way trying to be disrespectful, but to lead us to the Super Bowl doesn't he have to first make it through an entire season?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I've had my posts and opinions called idiotic, stupid and moronic by mods here on a much greater frequency than from other posters. But I chalk it up to mods behaving like mods do on virtually every MB. Thick skin and all. There is a stereotype for a reason.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If folks want to continue this discussion please feel free to start a thread in the no football forum. Let's try to get this thread somewhere back to topic.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Thank you!
I'm sure you've expounded on this before, but I must have missed it. What are your best three arguments to support this claim?
Or are you just trying to get behind your team?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You continue to say this without any type of reasoning at all.
How or why is that the case?
So what about Hoyer? Why is it that he hasn't been able to be a product of anyone else's system? What is it going to take 8 teams for him to find a system where he can perform like Foles did? At least Foles has shown that he can shine in "someone's system." Whether you want to make that argument until you die, Foles only threw 2 picks two years ago. Foles has led a team to the playoffs. Had Foles played all season he likely was going to be an MVP candidate that season. He has done ten times more than anything Hoyer has dreamed of doing in the NFL in just his year and half of playing time before he was injured.
Your idea that he is a system QB that is a product of Chip Kelly is the same thing that could be said about any QB in the NFL. I guess Rogers is a product of Mike Mike McCarthy.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
1) I never said anything about Hoyer not fitting the Brown's system. I said that the Brown's not wanting Hoyer was a good thing, not that he didn't fit their system. Now, I meant that as a joke and it was taken more seriously by Cak than I intended, so I let it go.
2) If you draft a QB in the first or second round and he doesn't become your franchise QB, you've just set yourself back a few years. If you really don't expect the QB you draft in the first round to be a franchise QB, you shouldn't draft him.
3) Do you not understand how Forums work? On the old forum and on this forum, you can Ignore another user. The difference between the old forum and this forum is that on this forum, you can't Ignore staff members. Are you following me? So, on the old forum, I had you on ignore. If you go back prior to us moving to this new forum and look at my posts, you'll see that for years, I never, ever quoted you. Why was that? Because I had you on ignore and only ever saw your posts when someone else responded to them. Now, on this forum, I no longer have you on ignore and I can't put you on ignore even though I've tried to. So, yeah, I see your posts now and I've quoted them. But that's why I begged you to put me on Ignore. The whole "If you're ignoring my posts, why are you quoting them" crap only works when someone can actually put someone on ignore. Which I no longer can.
The first and third points here underline WHY I had you on Ignore.
[
I didn't say you still had me on ignore. I said you ignore me. Two different things. Your misinterpretation of something I wrote has irritated you enough again for the long point three above. As far as ignore goes, I just skip reading things I want to ignore. Since I do understand how this forum works, I think that is about the best you can do in the staff member case to which you are referring. When you see my name just scroll scroll scroll.
I don't use the ignore feature as a blanket ignore because I do like to check in with opposing viewpoints to see if I've missed anything I should think about. But don't worry about it. I certainly don't intend to engage you in any further discussion. I'm not a "Texans do everything right" guy obviously, and even more obviously that isn't everyone's cup of tea.
=============On the lighter side=====================
However, I didn't even realize that is was you that made that Browns comment referred to in point 1. That is ironically funny to me. I knew it was a joke, which is why I repeated it as a joke.
=========================
I'm done with this now, although you should feel free to get in the last word. For those that aren't done with it I think cak's suggestion of a separate mod-bashing thread in the non-football area is a good idea. However, if anyone gets in a really good shot on me that it is important I see, you might want to PM me to look at it. I'm pretty sure I'll be ignoring the thread.
I didn't say you still had me on ignore. I said you ignore me. Two different things. Your misinterpretation of something I wrote has irritated you enough again for the long point three above. As far as ignore goes, I just skip reading things I want to ignore. Since I do understand how this forum works, I think that is about the best you can do in the staff member case to which you are referring. When you see my name just scroll scroll scroll.
I don't use the ignore feature as a blanket ignore because I do like to check in with opposing viewpoints to see if I've missed anything I should think about. But don't worry about it. I certainly don't intend to engage you in any further discussion. I'm not a "Texans do everything right" guy obviously, and even more obviously that isn't everyone's cup of tea.
=============On the lighter side=====================
However, I didn't even realize that is was you that made that Browns comment referred to in point 1. That is ironically funny to me. I knew it was a joke, which is why I repeated it as a joke.
=========================
I'm done with this now, although you should feel free to get in the last word. For those that aren't done with it I think cak's suggestion of a separate mod-bashing thread in the non-football area is a good idea. However, if anyone gets in a really good shot on me that it is important I see, you might want to PM me to look at it. I'm pretty sure I'll be ignoring the thread.
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I agree with this, for two reasons.
- You're going to waste a minimum of three years trying to prove he is not the guy. He could look as scared as Blaine Gabbert from day one & you're still going to "give him time."
- You passed on a potentially better player. Farley, Watt, Quincy, Pouncey, Solder... & you still didn't solve the QB spot
I'm sure David Carr was a fine prospect. But look at his size, level of competition, & accomplishments compared to Carson & Rivers. Those are #1 overall QBs. Fresno state QBs don't go in the top 10.