If you read my post as trying to make Hoyer sound better, I'm going to have to work on my writing.
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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
If you read my post as trying to make Hoyer sound better, I'm going to have to work on my writing.
I replied to the draft thing, and then was just trying to keep somewhat on topic. Probably my bad though.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Had we won just 1 or 2 more of the right games last year, we likely would've been in the playoffs. The season is so damn short and games matter too much to be experimenting. Those couple of games might be the difference in making the playoffs or not & its very easy to understand why coaches don't like to do that.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
As one of the people who's not in favor of following the model of drafting any QB and trying to convince yourself he's a franchise guy, let me just say that there haven't been that many great QBs come out in the past few years that were drafted in the first round.
Yes, to be a serious contender you need to have that franchise guy, but wanting really hard for a guy to be that guy isn't going to make him magically turn into that guy. Our coaching staff needs to identify QBs who can take us to the promised land, and then they need to make the moves to get him as long as it doesn't hamstring the team.
I like the idea of drafting a guy in the 3rd or 4th round and developing him old-school. That's not something that works a lot of the time, but I think it's because most teams don't really take the time to do that. Hopefully, we are.
Good. I didn't want to work on my writing.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
We were 1 tie-breaker away from being in the play-offs. If we had won 1 more game, we would have been in without the need for tie-breakers.
I have now had the chance of watching all the INTs Hoyer threw last year.
Not all bad.
I still want to watch the complete games (just as I had watched some twenty plus games of Fitz the year before) to get a better idea.
Assuming that I had seen a large percentage of his "worse" moments - likely a fair assumption - I would say that the money offered to Howyer vs. Fitz is justified.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I'm old school like that too...I think alot of guys whether they're drafted in the 1st or the 4th need to sit for a minumum of a year to really mature as qb's. I think alot of guys simply get thrown in too fast and get ruined before they've really learned how to play qb in the NFL. I have no doubts in my mind that a talent like Carr or Gabbert could've been much better than they turned out to be if they just sat for a year & learned.
You enjoy mediocrity. I get it.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
lol, the fact of the matter is you know im right & you can't deal with it. You'd probably be the 1st guy screaming about not making the playoffs b/c Bob decided to experiment with some player at a key position.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
No, not at all. I was supportive of the way things went down last season. My posts here would show that. My complaint now is going back to that safe mediocre well. The same complaint I, and other posters, have stated time and again. You continue thinking that same safe mediocre well will eventually produce. Fair enough I guess.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fitz was not injured when Mallett started.
You're right Fitz was far from outstanding. He was only 20 rating pts better than Hoyer.
This last year stuff is bunk. Fitz was the declared starter. Then we won 3 of the 1st 4. No consideration is going to be given at that point. Lost the next 3 by one score or less and by the end it was obvious a change was going to be made and the only question was when. OB waited to after the bye. I didn't like him waiting but it was kind of conventional wisdom.
Runner's agenda is spending a 1st or 2nd on a QB (which is one I largely agree with).
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Ouch. Time for someone to learn a hard lesson.
That's why I responded to him with probably my bad.
On topic, I agree. Teddy was my guy all along. But again, I figured that was a topic for another thread.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Even though I argue against it in most cases, I agree if the right QB is there. I don't want to spend a first or a second on EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Blaine Gabbert, or Josh Freeman. If the talent's not there, the talent's not there.
But if we can nab a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees, I'm on board with that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well how would you feel now if we had selected one of the following post-Schaub injury? - better, same, worse?
Foles
Wilson
Osweiler
Tannehill
Glennon
Garoppolo
Carr
Bridgewater
We've had shots.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
I agree with that totally. Last year Mallet should've gotten more playing time well before his first start. I am disappointed that we are going with Hoyer because I had higher hopes for Mallet but alas it was not meant to be. Oh well at least there's next seasons draft when we see a QB we like be snapped up by another team.
All how I thought at the time, unless noted.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
First off, if our FO decides to take someone in the first, I'm fine with that as long as that QB turns into something good. I expect they're better at judging QB talent than I am.
Personally, using only what I had seen of these guys prior to their respective drafts, I would have been fine with Foles or Wilson where they were drafted. I didn't like any of those other guys where they were drafted. On that list, Wilson is the only guy I really like.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Folks throw out the 1st rounders as demonstration of there not being any QBs and it has been a bad crop in the 1st during the time period, but there have been opportunities.
I'm not hung up on them getting value if they like the guy. If you can't trade back then who gives a crap if they take 'their guy' in the 2nd instead of the 3rd.
At this point I'm a little terrified that Lucky is right and Hoyer is OB's guy.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
The proposed 3 year deal offered similar APY compared to the 2 year deal he signed. But do not have info on the details of the deal in terms of structure; so your point is well taken.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
But the problem with the first rounders (and Bridgewater could well be the exception to this) is that the Texans haven't had the chance to select the few that have worked out . The only first rounder on your list - other than the aforementioned Bridgewater - was Tannehill, and while I'll freely admit I'm surprised at how well that's worked out, and would welcome him as Texans QB with open arms, for the Texans to have selected him would have required a trade up from #26 to #8 in the first round, and there's no universe in existence where that was goiing to happen.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's why I included folks from the 1st 3 rounds. Don't get hung up on the 1sts. We've had chances.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I'm starting to think that Savage (or someone yet to be drafted) is OB's guy, and everybody until then is just a stop gap.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
OB doesn't have a guy. You'll know his guy when he makes a heavy investment in them.
He's already shown he's not going to commit to a player at that position.
Unless a player is proven or presents great value at their draft slot I don't expect us to sign a guy to a big contract or spend a premium draft pick on one.
I think he'll bargain shop and bring in hoyer's, malletts, fitzs...guys who have been mediocre or bad in hopes he can shine them up...or guys with potential and tools that just haven't gotten a chance or have fallen short...
And of course the savages of the world...fourth round draft picks that may or may not ever do anything.
He's already shown he's not going to commit to a player at that position.
Unless a player is proven or presents great value at their draft slot I don't expect us to sign a guy to a big contract or spend a premium draft pick on one.
I think he'll bargain shop and bring in hoyer's, malletts, fitzs...guys who have been mediocre or bad in hopes he can shine them up...or guys with potential and tools that just haven't gotten a chance or have fallen short...
And of course the savages of the world...fourth round draft picks that may or may not ever do anything.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Maybe Savage is our romo
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Ryan Mallett had a good practice today. Of course it was with the third-string unit.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Tannehill and Wilson are the best out of this group IMO. Wilson is a proven commodity, though what he is without the Seattle D to cover his flaws is not certain. Tannehill has improved every year since he left A&M and for once Miami looks like it might make a push for the playoffs. Carr and Bridgewater haven't decisively proven anything but both have flashed ability.
Foles was awesome one year and not so hot the next. Idk what to make of him.
No. I think most everyone believes Fitzpatrick is was better than Hoyer.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
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Any one game & we were in. We'd have had the time breaker against the Ravens since we beat them heads up.
corytx8
Rookie
Foles is a product of the Chip's system in Philly. I do not think he will going to be all that great to be honest with you.
corytx8
Rookie
I disagree with that deeply...... They are equal in my book.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Inside Texansland Hoyer is regarded as an upgrade. Outside Texansland Fitz is generally considered better. IIRC every QB power ranking has listed Fitz ahead.
Sure he was. I'll predict the opposite (along with the Rams who gave him an extension when that could have waited).
Weeden
Brady Quinn
Locker
Ponder
I don't think we'd have been any better off. 2016... I don't think you can find anyone who was against trading up to get Bridgewater. It doesn't matter that we didn't want him at #1 the Texans weren't listening to us anyway.
corytx8
Rookie
Show the the rankings for seasons prior to Fitz playing under OB though. Or going into last season. I think OB really brought the best out of Fitz and I think he will do the same for Hoyer....
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corytx8
Rookie
Having a sincere debate over Ryan Fitzpatrick or Brian Hoyer ...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You can come back and say haha if you want. I likely won't bother when I'm right.
Mallett belongs on that list as well.
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paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Let's hope so.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Mallett was 2011 draft and I said post Schaub injury so listed from 2012 on.
badboy
Hall of Fame
yep i was real glad the surgeon who repaired me knew where my groin was. lolShowing a full grasp of anatomy is of foremost importance as a surgeon!
Well it would be a lot safer to draft in hindsight. Sadly, the team must do their due diligence and take a risk on someone before they've proven it in the NFL. Note I say the team has to do their homework to lesson the risk, not the "pick anybody in the first round because picking them in the first round makes them great" misstatement that always comes up in these discussions.
Since Good Schaub the Texans have started the season with Hurt Schaub, Fitzpatrick, and Hoyer. I just don't see that as a great deal of progression for three years of patiently working value quarterbacks. I'm not sure that following that path for another two or three years will result in any improvement, especially if the pattern of having a new quarterback every year continues.
If they take a risk on a higher rated guy, they have a much greater chance of getting their franchise quarterback. If not, they will end up with some mediocre glorified back-up - which is right where they are now. With the rookie salary scale they don't have to commit $40M to that first round quarterback; that reduces the risk even more than what it was just a few years ago.
But who knows, the Texans have been grinding the system for years. Maybe their system worked and Hoyer is the franchise guy.
If they take a risk on a higher rated guy, they have a much greater chance of getting their franchise quarterback. If not, they will end up with some mediocre glorified back-up - which is right where they are now. With the rookie salary scale they don't have to commit $40M to that first round quarterback; that reduces the risk even more than what it was just a few years ago.
But who knows, the Texans have been grinding the system for years. Maybe their system worked and Hoyer is the franchise guy.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
If you do your due diligence, and you come away thinking that none of these guys are going to be anything other than scrubs, then you don't pick them. If there's no one worth picking in the first or second round, then don't pick someone... unlike the Bills when they drafted E.J. Manuel in the first round or the Jets when they drafted Geno Smith in the second or Mark Sanchez in the first.
You guys who want the QB position addressed by making a pick in the first or second round seem to assume that there HAS to be a guy there worth spending the pick on, and that's frequently not the case.
If you do your due diligence and you think there's a guy who could be a franchise quarterback, then you do whatever you can (short of destroying your team) to get him.
But if you don't like anyone who's there, you back away and pick the best player available.
Just because the QB position should be addressed and HAS to be addressed, doesn't mean it CAN be addressed. And that's where fans get it wrong. They fall in love with someone like Teddy Bridgewater and can't get their minds around the fact that O'Brien didn't like him and preferred having Ryan Fitzpatrick for a year than taking a chance on Bortles, Carr, or Bridgewater.
Right - and "you guys" who don't want a highly drafted quarterback think there is never a good quarterback available.
However, I expect many people will change their tune when the Texans pick one in the first round. I think many arguments are based more on defending the Texans decisions than any technical discussion of the quarterbacks. Kind of like all the "right track" spin of the years spent hovering around 8-8.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
They are rare things, indeed. But they do show up from time to time.
I would have been perfectly happy with Luck or RGIII. I would have been perfectly happy with anyone OB decided to pick.
I can't tell you how much this statement irritates me. This is a "water is wet" statement. Could you possibly say anything more obvious? Have you ever spent time on a team's forum before or is this your first day here?
If the Texan's draft a QB in the first round, I'm going to be excited and optimistic. Why? Why on Earth would I be excited and optimistic? Because I'm a god-damned FAN. Am I going to try to come up with rationalizations for why the team picked this or that guy? Of course I am! I'm a god-damned fan!? What do you expect me to do? Sit around here and ***** and moan that they drafted a quarterback in the first round that I didn't like and so now we're doomed!? Hell no! I'm going to be totally pumped that my team did their due diligence and finally found a guy worthy of using a first round pick on.
And I'm going to hope like hell they got it right. I'm going to go back over his film looking for the qualities that they liked, I'm going to follow ever snap during training camp hoping that he develops.
Hell! I did that and am doing that with SAVAGE! I'm hoping that his development from the 1st to 2nd year continues and that he has a break-out year in his 3rd year (if not sooner.)
Are you even a freaking fan? Do you understand what that means?
I was totally prepared for them to draft Bridgewater or Bortles in the first round last year, and I totally would have gotten behind either of those guys if they'd become Texans. Why? Because I'm a god-damned FAN of the HOUSTON TEXANS and whoever they picked would be my quarterback. I would have gotten behind Carr or Garoppolo if they'd picked either of them.
I'm getting behind them right now on freaking Hoyer because as of this moment, he's my QB... like it or freaking not.
You act like it's some sort of cognitive failing to be a fan, to root for your team to make the right decision from time to time, and to try to convince yourself that they have.
I'm not a scout. It's not my job to watch all the film on these guys in college and project them into the NFL. It's not my job to have a decision on which guys are going to be good and which guys are going to be bad and then to grade the front office on whether they chose the guys I thought were going to be good or not. If my team drafts someone that I didn't have a high grade on, I'm going to get behind those guys and hope I was wrong. Because I'm a fan of the HOUSTON TEXANS not some talking head on ESPN trying to protect his reputation as a damned draftnik. I'm not going to revel in my team making decisions that didn't pan out. I'm not trying to be smarter and more knowledgeable than the Houston Texans' scouting department. If I was right and they were wrong, I'm not going to break my arm patting myself on the back, because it means my team isn't winning the Super Bowl every year, which is what I want them to do.
You can take your "right track spin" and go root for whichever damned QB you think we missed out on.