WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Which I have stated. Neither guy held an advantage, which is why the more experienced guy got the nod. I don't see what's so complicated about it.
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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB
- Thread starter Playoffs
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Which I have stated. Neither guy held an advantage, which is why the more experienced guy got the nod. I don't see what's so complicated about it.
eriadoc
Texan-American
He showed up late and was sent home. Bigger story in my mind is why the Texans handled the news release the way they did.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I know you. You aren't that naive. Every HC limits preseason reps to avoid injury.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's natural. Consistent seems to become almost synonymous with the vet in these scenarios.
Especially starting quarterbacks, which is why Hoyer only had a short series in the 1st presason game.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I've been saying this all offseason but you'll find no headway here. This forum is a one-way street when it comes to Mallett and his upside. I've seen nothing during his career to indicate that he is anything other than a JAG but I was rooting for him to win the QB job just so we could end this nonsense and find out.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Well not every team. You see younger guys with more upside get the nod on teams all the time too. But that's normally when the staff has committed to that player long term. In this situation though I agree. I fully expected Hoyer to start.
I just don't agree that the competition was a true competition
Let's pretend they were fighting for the last roster spot and the loser would be cut. No, well if the guy we go with is not good we'll yank him....
If it were a true competition for a roster spot those guys would have gotten more game time because the loser wouldn't be around anymore and you'd want to make sure you had given them more preseason snaps before making that decision.
That is unless he was a guy like jasper Coleman who you knew had 0 chance to make it.
Feels like Mallett's chances were a lot closer to 0 than 50/50 as OB would have folks believe. That's really my only objection within this particular debate. I'd have liked to see them both play more so at least my head wasn't being pissed on and someone telling me it's raining.
But man. I'm still excited for this season tbh.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
lol no the problem on this forum is people like you who value Hoyer's 56.5% completion rating and somehow claim he is accurate. The guy is no better than Fitzpatrick but you all seem to think he will suddenly "get it" in Houston.
At least with Mallett he is an unknown NFL commodity.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Bias in that all fans and media see is the output...completed passes, tight spirals and how hard and far a guy is throwing it. Everyone outside of the coaching staff (media, most fans) wanted Mallet to win it & if you just go by those surface level things i listed off above, it looks like Mallet is right there or at the very least just as capable as Hoyer. Then bias about "upside" creeps in & fans think it should "clearly" be Mallet. OB wasn't gonna tip his hand to anyone either way & he certainly wasn't going to berate a guy who he might have to turn to during the season, so impartial observation & inside knowledge about how these guys are really running his scheme in practice, leadership and experience was probably the best way to decide who he chooses as his starter not 70 reps from a meaningless game.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Well, I'll spell out my POV then. If you have a truly open competition, you don't have a predetermined guy you're going to go with. You're entering with an open mind. That's one piece. Then, we've all heard how Mallett's deficiencies revolved around accuracy and touch. So when Mallett gets a bunch of 3 and 5 step drop playcalls, it's pretty evident the coaches aren't wanting him to throw deep. They want to see how he does with the short stuff. He misses 2 or 3 passes over the span of two games. Then you get a sneaky quote from OB about how they need to throw deep. Well, then call the freakin' plays, you Machiavellian bastard. At the end of it, you get Hoyer as a starter when Mallett did what they wanted, even though that is not his strength.
Think of it this way - what else could Ryan Mallett have done to win the job? Go deep? The plays called were not deep plays. And oh by the way, Hoyer's "deep" ball was a 12-14 yard pass. Could he have thrown fewer INTs? Maybe, I don't know. I didn't see practice, but all the media that reported from practice kept saying they were even. Play more uptempo? He was the best at getting in and out of the huddle and making throws on time. So what do you think he could have done to win the job? The only answer is "clearly beat Hoyer" but the play calls were short dink and dunk crap. Neither of them outplayed the other in part because of that.
Anyway, I don't really care much about which QB plays. They're both most likely going to suck or be mediocre at best. Mallett has the element of the unknown, which always gives you hope, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. The only part of this whole thing that interests me is the way OB has been handling it. Mallett and Hoyer will be long gone while we still have him as the coach of our team.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, might've been more had he been able to extend his 2nd drive in the Broncos game. You're also acting like Hoyer got a ton of throws in with the 1's. He got 1 drive in the 1st game in which he threw it 2-3 times i believe. In the 2nd game he got no throws with the 1's.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bull. Plenty of starters get more than that. In fact, quite a few teams don't play there #3 at all. And we aren't (or weren't supposed to be) dealing with an entrenched starter. There was supposedly a "competition" going on.
The Bills last week split the whole game between the top 2. The Bucks top 2 have gotten all but a handful of snaps.
Hoyer was the one who got his ass chewed during the Denver game for slow pace, but games don't count.
Damn right, goodbye nonsense, hello Brian Hoyer as our starting quarterback ...
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Clearly you haven't been paying attention. I don't value anything about Hoyer whatsoever. He's the epitome of average. My problem is Mallett not being any better yet getting the Andrew Luck treatment on this board. I've talked to people outside of Houston about the Mallett obsession we have here and they are clueless as to why the fan base is so enamored with him. So am I. The hype doesn't make sense to me.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You apparently aren't paying attention. I've said the whole time Savage's butt should have been on the bench until a decision was made. That was a giant red flag a decision had been made.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Andrew Luck treatment? That is ridiculous. The fan based was EXCITED over the POSSIBILITY of Mallett. But then Hoyer came here and ruined it for everyone.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Meh, in the end, this "competition" was no different than bringing in another kicker to "compete" with the existing kicker.
It'd practically take a miracle to get to the SB with any of our QBs anyway (perfect defense & running game). That's a miracle on top of the existing miracle to get to the Bowl.
It'd practically take a miracle to get to the SB with any of our QBs anyway (perfect defense & running game). That's a miracle on top of the existing miracle to get to the Bowl.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Fine go pick one of the myriad of Washington Redskins qb's who collectively ranked near the top in completion percentage last year at 67%..................and had the redskins picking at the top of the draft in 2014 too.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is a figment of your imagination.
Show some examples. There's rarely been a statement stronger than "I hope he starts so we can see what he has" or "he has more upside." Haven't seen anyone (may have missed a couple) declare him a really good QB much less franchise, great, etc.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I don't want the combined 15 plus INTs that come with it. What you have just proven is Hoyer is the same when it comes to TD/INT ratio as RG3 and Cousins, but is a less accurate passer. BUT OB feels we should get behind him as our starting QB.....no thanks
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah if you make that leap..which apparently you have. But OB has stated he puts a premium on the health of the team going into the season pretty much above everything else..which explains why the 1's haven't played much at all this preseason. Furthermore, you and everyone else on this board would be killing OB if he'd left Mallet out there & he got hurt by some try hard trying to make the roster on either side of the ball.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Maybe because Mallet has a lower career % and worse TD/INT ratio than Hoyer. But hey, if we just keep throwing him out there maybe there's a chance he's not the guy we've all seen play. Don't look at the actual stats, just imagine the POTENTIAL stats instead....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nope. I didn't even complain about the QB sneak being called in preseason which was pretty dumb even if it had been 3rd and a half.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No, what you've just proven is that completion percentage is not a good way to measure qb play. The Colts & Eagles are both just ahead of us in terms of completion percentage at 62 & 61.8%. That's good enough for bottom half of the league at 20 & 21 respectively. Both teams made the playoffs last year & yet 1 of those teams has their clear savior & took his team to the AFC championship, while the other has an ongoing qb carousel & started Mark "butt fumble" sanchez for a good chunk of their games.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Lets check sample size
17 games started vs 2....which one seems like it would be more relevant to their actual ability?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
So you want to use his sack total, his poor qb rating, his poor int totals, how about we skip stats and do the eye test?
If you can't see that an actual GAME, pre-season or not is a better evaluation of talent that a 7-on-7 in shorts, I agree that this conversation should go no further.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I think that word is spelled with two r's not one. And three for extra emphasis...furrrk.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Cuz we all know that the first 17 starts are all a QB will ever amount to, right? And why has Mallet only gotten two starts here anyway? Either O'Brien irrationally has it out for him and refuses to start him over Fitz/Hoyer despite trading for and then resigning this potential great -- or he felt like they gave the Texans a better chance on the field than Mallett did.
It's funny to me that people try to paint this as some fresh faced promising rookie vs a grizzled vet. Mallett is two years younger than Hoyer, not 10. I don't care if he was graded a first round QB talent in 2011. So were Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert. Ryan's had years to turn heads in the NFL. He hasn't.
Re-watching that Broncos game last night made me realize that Mallett will probably get his shot this season. That offensive line is going to get Hoyer killed. Mallet had better have a quick release or Tom Savage will be starting this season, as well. [/prediction]
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
How about we just wait until the season starts and see how he does? We weren't thought to be a playoff team before he was named the starter & we sure as hell aren't thought to be one after he was named. This statement would've held true for Mallet as well.
I saw the Texans lose the trench battle badly...all night long.
It was borderline prior to Foster going down.
I'm with you on that. .I don't see Hoyer playing 16 full games due to injury and/or general suckiness. Mallett will have his opportunities. Not sure if Savage will get any run, but the odds are significantly above 0.
When your top two quarterbacks are â known blah and a known unknown, anything can happen.
That is a weakness that even a great defense cannot overcome. Without a consistent running game getting yards, the dink and dunk strategy of Hoyer is going to keep Lechler busy every game. I think we will see a lot of close games that will rely on the defense to make big stops and even big plays to win.
After absorbing the news the past few days, I'm disappointed in the potential of Mallet to get the job. Dude cannot beat out Brian "ex-Brown" Hoyer, so think you're right on the mark of two blahs and an unknown at QB, and that is never a situation to base a lot of hope on at the beginning of a season. I expect to be entertained, but beyond that, I'm not going to get unrealistic about it.
Slight misinterpretation there.
Top two quarterbacks:
Hoyer - blah
Mallett - unknown
I can't draw any conclusion on Mallet based on the small game sample size. He might be the upside guy fans see, he might be the flawed guy that I assume O'Brien must see based on the way he's treated him the last two years, he might be something else entirely.
Savage I didn't categorize. Just the third stringer.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
If OB sees him as a flawed guy he must see some of that upside the fans see too, right? Otherwise, why is he even here?
I agree with that. I'm thinking to O'Brien the flaws override the upside.
I'm also sure fans see some flaws in his game as well, with the upside winning.
I'm just trying to make a general observation, not start some black and white argument.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
To me that's kind of the same thing. If the flaws override the upside, why did we bring the guy back. Let that guy go. Let's bring in someone else he's not as down on believing their negatives outweigh the positives.
Personally, I don't think OB thinks Mallett's flaws outweigh this potential. I think he just doesn't know and is not willing to take that leap.
So has him on the roster just to be a backup. Could be. If so, he really should share that with Mallett so he can make reasonable career decisions rather than dangle "starter" in front of him.
But, it's just speculation so that's about as far as I'm willing to take that
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
So for his role he thinks mallett is good enough as is? Mallett is his sage. Not going to get a lot better. But good enough to back up/spot start.
Why is he telling him to be ready to take over if the starter doesn't play well? Why does he have that guy believing he's in contention to start?
That guy needs to know his role. He's a back up and is not going to be given a chance to lead this team. Even if he gets a shot he'll be looking for a starter next year regardless because the decision maker does not believe he has upside. At least not enough to be a real starter which is what he was led to believe he was in contention for.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Oh wow. Wrote my post before I saw yours. I agree.
eriadoc
Texan-American
That's where I think a few of us are hung up. It seems like OB jerked him around. As I said upthread, Mallett and Hoyer will both be gone and we'll still have OB as a coach for our team. I'm interested in seeing how OB handles things. Chances are not high that either QB will be worth a damn.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately, watching Hoyer in the past, I have seen those values go right down the tubes when Hoyer has been pressured to any significant extent. Breakdowns hopefully don't happen here with the Texans as often as they did with the Browns...........but they WILL happen. And it only takes a handful of his classic pressure accurracy and decision-making deficiencies to lose a game almost one-handedly as he did too many times in Cleveland, especially when the run game was weak.
If Mallet cannot clearly beat out Hoyer for the starting job, then he's blah, too.
And I say this as someone that was cautiously optimistic about Mallet, or at least his potential. But, if he cannot clearly rise above Hoyer, then it is basically like Mr teX just mentioned: O'Brien is not as impressed with Mallet's upside that it overcomes his concerns about inconsistency.
The only other option is that O'Brien always had Hoyer as a starter and Mallet really had a mountain to climb. But, IMO, O'Brien is not that kid of head coach. I truly believe he's going to pick the player that he feels is the best choice to win games. Kubiak always tended to favorite players, and O'Brien seems the opposite in that regard, that every player has to earn their starting gig regardless of tenure and experience.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
IOB is under no obligation to tell that dude anything & OB would be a fool to even insinuate to Mallet that he'd would be the entrenched starter coming into 2015 after 2 games of mediocore at best work. OB has said all along that he's going to do what's best for the team...that includes having a competent back up on his roster whether it be Mallet or Hoyer. I dont even think OB knew who his starter & back up would be of the 2 at the outset of mini camp...
Total guess on my part, but what i think happened is Mallet bought into his own hype from fans & took his best shot at getting on the field..which was here with familar teammates.... in an offense he already knew & coach he already has started for & knew...oh by the way, also a team with no established starter at qb. I think all OB really promised was that Mallet would be able to compete for the starting spot with whomever was here (which is more than what he'd had in all his time in NE) and OB afforded him that. I think Mallet for whatever reason though, assumed he had the upper hand on anyone else who might be brought in b/c remember, when he resigned, Savage was the only qb that was locked up & on the roster. 2-3 days later they brought in Hoyer, & his fate was somewhat sealed. Not because OB had made up his mind already, but b/c his greatest strengths over any of the other competition was his familarity with the offensive system & his veteran experience in the league (however little that was). Hoyer had the same familarity with the offense but had more overall experience as a starter & as a veteran in the league.
So when you really look at it, he screwed himself lol. Had he not been playing the percentages and just did what 95% of other players do & taken the rumored more lucrative jets offer, He'd be the starter right now & he'd be making more money...that is with Geno getting his lights punched out and all.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
In all honesty, you could say the bolded about every qb in the league. Last year in the playoffs we saw the best qb in the league throw a late game pick that played a signifcant part in his team losing..a game in which they pretty much dominated from the start. Hoyer will be pressured...& he will make mistakes. but lets not take that to mean that if Mallet was the starter, he would not make any mistakes when he was pressured. If anything i think history shows that the less starting experience you have the more mistakes you'll likely make as a qb.