None of those guys have done anything in years and years, and years and years. And years. The league doesn't make for winning with a mediocre qb very sustainable anymore.
No one thinks Hoyer is a path to more than mediocre.
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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
None of those guys have done anything in years and years, and years and years. And years. The league doesn't make for winning with a mediocre qb very sustainable anymore.
No one thinks Hoyer is a path to more than mediocre.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think he's pointing to very bizarre circumstances like Gruden winning the SB with Johnson and Dungy's D or Billick winning the SB with Dilfer and Lewis' great D.
Not exactly a high odds path to emulate.
Kubiak shouldn't be in there. Pre-injury Schaub was not mediocre to below average.
Anyway...
Link
Do the Jets have anyone we want in trade?
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Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The article says the Jury Duty rumor was incorrect. Not that it was supported.
Really dumb on Mallet's part. O'Brien was clear in what he told the QBs, and we were all fortunate enough to see it on HK. Mallet should be pushing every angle he can to continue to prove himself worthy, but then he does something irresponsible for whatever reason(s) and gets himself bumped down to 3. I doubt he stays there, but the fact he's there is on him. I do not perceive O'Brien as a coach to be messed with on any level. Dude seems like he's just as much chew someone up and spit them out than give any benefit of the doubt.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't agree with OB on starter and understand why Mallett is angry, but yeah if this was intentional in any way then it was stupid by Mallett.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The problem is most are making the leap that Mallet is destined to be an "outright" better qb b/c of this mythical upside he supposedly has.
But here me out here.. basically what you're saying is you...or rather you want OB..... to sacrifice his job security...& some of the regular season for you to find out whether or not Mallet has it in him to be a starter.....& to make you feel better about the upcoming season? Ok fine whatever, OB isn't above reproach on his decision. But How long do you propose this goes on? 3 games? 6 games? How long & what would you have to see before you say "Ok, this guy at HC...he kinda knows what he's talking about" or vice versa. B/c we saw the over reaction in here to his cleveland game...only after a few of them went back to watch it again did they come back down to earth. This dude is trying to position his team in the best possible way to win games & If anyone has the information needed to make the best decision about that, it's him. I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this given what he did with the qb's he had to work with last season.
You and others are not convinced that Mallet isn't the guy & you're chief argument has been...well the other guy is garbage & or some other conspiracy theory when the fact of the matter is Mallet didn't have to come back here in the 1st place. He could be in NY as the starter right now since Geno is out for 6 weeks. There's somehow this assumption that Mallet can't be any worse than Hoyer has been..Well yes..yes he can be worse than that. Not saying he would be, but it's just a fact that he could be..
& here's another thing. I'm not trying to characterize Hoyer as anything other than a journeyman qb..Stop trying to make me out to be a sympathizer simply b/c I won't bash the guy. The fact of the matter is OB picked his guy to start the season with and clearly stated in HK that the starter qb job is contingent upon performance. So if Hoyer isn't getting it done I fully expect to see Mallet playing at some point and playing well earlier than when Fitz finally got pulled simply b/c he now has 2 guys who have been in his system for 2 years whereas last year he didn't have that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It wasn't mythical until it got to OB. From coming out of college to last year he has been evaluated as starter quality:
Link
OB agreed with that last year.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Clearly you are either skipping over it, or refusing to acknowledge, the multiple times where I have said Mallett didn't significantly distance himself/beat out Hoyer. You also continue to assert that I am pushing for A) Mallett to start because B) I think he is a better QB.
I will say it again: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MALLETT. Am I not allowed to be pissed off that Brian F***ing Hoyer is the starting QB for my team? Tell me what the forum rules are here.
What you're not wanting to accept is that wanting to see what one guy can bring, when he's already brought a pedigree and a good glimpse, because the other guy is a known "meh" is not a bad argument.
Especially after we went through the whole "meh" song and dance all of last year. Patience is up on "meh". Your patience may not be, and that's fine. You may have a fantastic "meh" threshold. Great. Some of us want to see a shot taken is all.
You will continue to defend "meh" though. There's no other tidying up that side of the debate.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I asked this upthread and no one took it on. What could Mallett have done, in your mind, to clearly beat out Hoyer? 100% completion? Fewer INTs? Throw deep? Tell the coach to fk off with that QB sneak play?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Billick - Dilfer (SB)
Gruden-Johnson (SB)
Kubiak-TJ Yates (Divisional playoffs)
Rex Ryan - Sanchez (afc championship)
Dungy-Sean King (NFC Championship)
Lewis- Andy Dalton (3 straight years in playoffs)
Arians - Stanton and bunch of other scrub qbs (playoffs last year)
Harbaugh (Alex Smith, Kaepernick) - SB, NFC championship
Harbaugh (Flacco) numerous occasions where Flacco would be considered a subpar qb going into the playoffs (AFC championships, SB)
Reid (Vick) NFC championship with eagles i believe
Smith (Grossman) SB
The point is, its not as rare as you think and as long long ago as you guys say. The qb is the most important position on the team, but its the team that matters most. If OB can get halfway decent play out of Hoyer...or whomever, & our defense plays the way that we all think it can..we can make the playoffs like any number of other teams that i didn't name above.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, show more consistency in practice is the obvious answer here...but leading the team down on more scoring drives &/or extending them in his work during the preseaon games probably wouldn't have hurt him either..
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This question was like the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presumptive questions. If you had asked without disparaging Hoyer, it might have drawn a response.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Well, that's where my problem comes in. People who were at practice reported the two were dead even. So just going off reports, but IIWII. As for leading the team on scoring drives, I'm not sure what you can do when the HC has you hand it off 6 times from inside the 5. And Brian Hoyer's scoring drive was a 12-14 yard pass to Cecil Shorts, which is no different a pass than Mallett has shown plenty. Not sure how that distinguishes the two of them. So do you think if Cecil Shorts had run 40-something yards for Ryan Malett instead of Hoyer, the job would have gone the other way?
eriadoc
Texan-American
How am I disparaging Hoyer? I asked a simple question. What else could Mallett have done to beat out Hoyer? If you can't answer, don't pollute the thread.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ok maybe not you..You're just pissed b\c Hoyer is the starter...there ya' happy?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
**** or get off the pot..i get it...but for me, its about whether this team can win or not is all. The qb position is a cluster you-know-what...but if my team wins, I could give 2 shits about who's playing qb.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
TJ Yates didn't lead the Texans to the playoffs and you know that. That is a 5 game sample set when the Texans were already 7-3 and well on their way to winning the division.
Dalton, Alex Smith, Kaepernick and Flacco are all below average QB's? OK...
Think we will have to agree to disagree on how often the mediocre QB piloting a great team to success actually happens.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Yes. I don't like false attributions. Thanks.
You sound like you have some monopoly on wanting to see this team win. We all want that. Some of us happen to think there's a 2-ton manhole cover on how much winning a Brian Hoyer-led team can do. You don't. I wish I shared your optimism.
Oh ya, and we did this last year.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
actually it was a 6 game stretch and playoff game...meanwhile you guys are advocating that if Hoyer starts the 1st 4 games the season is sunk.
Yes Andy Dalton, Alex Smith and Kaepernick are the defintion of mediocore to below average ....which is actually what i said in my post. Flacco's the only guy you could argue as being above average imo.
Regardless, even if you take Flacco out there are literally examples every year of less than stellar qbs taking their teams to the playoffs...Not truly great success how some may define it...but if i told you right now that the Texans could go to the playoffs....but Brian Hoyer would have to be our qb would you not take that?
Yes Andy Dalton, Alex Smith and Kaepernick are the defintion of mediocore to below average ....which is actually what i said in my post. Flacco's the only guy you could argue as being above average imo.
Regardless, even if you take Flacco out there are literally examples every year of less than stellar qbs taking their teams to the playoffs...Not truly great success how some may define it...but if i told you right now that the Texans could go to the playoffs....but Brian Hoyer would have to be our qb would you not take that?
Maybe next year the Texans will get off of the quarterback treadmill.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah, what's a messageboard without chicken littles and sunshine pumpers lol...
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think one of Mallett's problems is that he's relying too much on his pre-snap reads, and making his mind up on which guy to throw to before letting everything develop. That's great in terms of him getting the ball out faster than anything, but it also results in primarily shorter completions that don't show his arm-strength as much. I think he also gets locked onto a guy, and as a gunslinger, trusts his arm to get it in to spots he shouldn't be trying to get it in to. In the Cleveland game, that throw to Hopkins to get us out of the shadow of our own goal-posts was a great throw, but technically, it was the wrong read. He threw into coverage designed to stop that throw. Now... it turned out OK because he completed it, but that's a ding against him.
The other thing is I think that called QB sneak was a test, a test he failed. We don't know if Hoyer was given a similar test.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I don't agree with some of that, but great response. Thanks.
martin was wide open. definitely missed his read.
Looks like he was fooled by the LB over Martin. He probably thought Polk was going to be wide open there at the bottom, but the LB stacked over Martin went with the RB & the safety came down on Martin.
I don't know about "plan b" but yeah, they didn't expect the LB to get around Graham so quick, or Mallett was really late on the throw. Hard to say, with Blue turning to look for the ball about the same time Mallett threw the ball.
I was very disappointed in this throw. The play didn't work as designed, I thought it was a poor decision to throw the ball anyway, & I really didn't like the placement. I know it's third down... but I didn't like that throw. This would have been a time for him to pull the ball down, & look for something else.
Hoyer would have. That's not really Mallett's forte, & if someone were to say that's where Mallett failed in this competition, I'd kinda agree. But if Mallett were going to be my QB, I doubt he'd be in that situation enough to hurt the team. This game, it looked like we wanted to play small ball & only small ball. In a real game, that wouldn't be the case.
yeah, but that Brady kid couldn't even beat out Drew freakin' Bledsoe in training camp!
A lot of those teams had a top 5 defense & a top 5 running game & a so-so QB.
IMO, without knowing when Arian is going to be able to play... we're not going to end up on that list with Hoyer starting maybe with Mallett. Not going to happen with Hoyer. How do I know? What happened to Hoyer when he lost his running game last season?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We could easily haves top 5 defense..so check right there. The run game we'll struggle with unless blue steps up..Arians due to come back some time this season...so half a check there.
You know one thing alot of those teams also had? Strong coaching leadership...which it also appears we have in OB. Most of those coaches controlled the ball on offense too..which indirectly controls the qb to an extent.
I'm not saying we'll end up on that list with Hoyer but we came real close to making the playoffs with the likes of Fitzpatrick and Keenum last year....who by most everyone's estimations are markedly worse qbs than Hoyer..
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PapaL
Loose Screw
1) I know what happened.
2) That story was based on a joking tweet.
3) From your own link: A previous version of this story incorrectly cited this tweet, saying Mallett missed practice for jury duty. That information was wrong. The Houston Chronicle's John McClain correctly reported that Mallett overslept.
Tilt your head to the right.
When I posted it, that was not there. All it said is what I quoted. As I said, passing information along
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I understand, wasn't attacking you... just the b.s. story in that link.
Apologies if it came off otherwise.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Watch Hoyer get knocked out in preseason and this whole conversation be moot.
Stop playing with my emotions!
In all seriousness, I wouldn't hope he gets injured. He may suck, but I don't want to wish him any ill will on the guy.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hoyer's agent was negotiating hot and heavy with the Jets and the Texans right up to the time the Texans ultimately signed him. I am sure that can explain the amount of his final contract. Hoyer was the best QB still left out there, and OB was not going to take for granted that Mallet was going to make it back from his pectoral surgery in tact. He and Smith were not in a very good position to let him get away.
A large part of this message board very vociferously supports "meh" every time the draft rolls around. "It is too risky to use a high round pick on a quarterback".
The risk if you don't:
2013 - Broken Scaub
2014 - Fitzpatrick
2015 - Hoyer
2016 - next man up!
That's the arm next to your side.
Duh. I was looking at the one up in the air.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Schadenfreude would be the word of the day.
Over/under on the number of f bombs from OB if that happened?
Troy Chapman
Rookie
One interesting note, Houston tried to sign Hoyer to a three year deal...but Hoyer would only do a two year deal. Betting on himself again.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
What is so 'unknown' about Mallet? He's been in the league for a while now. I understand why he couldn't sniff the field playing behind Brady, but he's been here since the start of last season. How could he not beat out a barely 2 average QB's in Fitzpatrick & Hoyer? It says a lot about Mallet that he doesn't get it or just isn't very good.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Do you recall when he was signed last year? And eventually he did get the start over Fitz last year.
Without knowing the terms of the negotiation, no conclusion can be drawn, IMO.
Most of the time, it's the guaranteed money.
Getting $4.725M, which is better than what Fitz got last year.
That's not even counting the per game roster he's going to make, just to be on the active roster.
I'd say that's a good deal for Hoyer... unless you know for sure that the third year offered really makes for a more attractive proposal.
Do you?
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Yeah near the end of training camp but he is supposedly familiar with the system. More familiar than Fitzpatrick. It took an injury for Mallet to get in and Fitzpatrick was far from outstanding last season.
I don't want to argue what a large part of a message board thinks, as that amounts to pissing in the wind, but there is a difference in risking the rare high round draft pick and risking a couple of games in a season of games.
But hey man, anything and everything to make Brian Hoyer sound better as our starting quarterback, right?
badboy
Hall of Fame
showing off that medical degree are ya?That's the arm next to your side.