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O'Brien: Keenum slightly ahead of Savage

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O'Brien: Keenum slightly ahead of Savage
"Right now I’d still say Case is a little bit ahead of Tom," O'Brien said. "I’d say Tom’s improving. I think Tom’s definitely improving. It’s a battle, it’s definitely a competitive battle, but Case is still slightly ahead of Tom."

That's reflected in the Texans' first depth chart of the season, where Keenum is listed as Ryan Fitzpatrick's backup and Savage third. How they play in the preseason games will be a major factor in where they finish the preseason on the depth chart.

I asked O'Brien if he was 100 percent sure the Texans' backup quarterback will be Keenum or Savage, or if there's a chance he could bring in a different player.

"Right now I see it, as we stand here right now, I’d say one of those two will back up," he said.
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"Sometimes he[Case] has to take advantage of his ability to run around and make plays," O'Brien said. "He did that (Tuesday). He kept a play alive on a fourth-down play at the end of practice, which I thought was a good play. He didn’t end up completing the pass, but he kept the play alive. There’s times when he’s done a good job of using his feet. He’s got decent command of the offense."
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"I think his[Tom's] head’s spinning less," O'Brien said. "I just was looking at it this morning. In 11 practices, he has about 130 reps in 7-on-7 and team periods. I think the more reps you get in practice, the less your head will be spinning."
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Lance Zierlein @LanceZierlein
Prediction: If Tom Savage beats out Case Keenum for backup job, the Texans keep just 2 QBs as opposed to the 3 they will keep if Keenum wins
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i just cannot believe Keenum or Savage cant beat out a guy who is in his 30s and someone who has never led a winning team on the field:

2008 Bengals 4-11
2009 bills 6-10
2010 bills 4-12
2011 bills 6-10
2012 bills 6-10
2013 titans 7-9

that's fitzpatrick's record since getting regular playing time.

Fitzpatrick's problem is, even though he's super smart, he sucks at handling competition. Fitzpatrick is great at practice and training camp when he isnt being pressured or challenged and him getting so many starting gigs is evidence of that despite always failing due to the fact that come sundays, people go after you.

they dont go after you in practice.

Keenum is the opposite. doesnt really practice well but is a gamer come game time.

What's the point of a stop gap measure which is basically what fitzpatrick is?

I would rather win 3-5 games with keenum and savage as oppose to being a treadmill team and winning 6-8 games. At least with keenum and savage, you get to see young qbs play, if they fall on their faces we find out what they do have or dont have, we lose a lot of games and we get premium picks next year to hopefully get a qb before the 3rd round.

Playing fitzpatrick just keeps you in the middle. going nowhere.

treadmill.

basically the same as playing matt schaub.
 
Lord Bills said:
i just cannot believe Keenum or Savage cant beat out a guy who is in his 30s and someone who has never led a winning team on the field:

2008 Bengals 4-11
2009 bills 6-10
2010 bills 4-12
2011 bills 6-10
2012 bills 6-10
2013 titans 7-9

that's fitzpatrick's record since getting regular playing time.

Fitzpatrick's problem is, even though he's super smart, he sucks at handling competition. Fitzpatrick is great at practice and training camp when he isnt being pressured or challenged and him getting so many starting gigs is evidence of that despite always failing due to the fact that come sundays, people go after you.

they dont go after you in practice.

Keenum is the opposite. doesnt really practice well but is a gamer come game time.

What's the point of a stop gap measure which is basically what fitzpatrick is?

I would rather win 3-5 games with keenum and savage as oppose to being a treadmill team and winning 6-8 games. At least with keenum and savage, you get to see young qbs play, if they fall on their faces we find out what they do have or dont have, we lose a lot of games and we get premium picks next year to hopefully get a qb before the 3rd round.

Playing fitzpatrick just keeps you in the middle. going nowhere.

treadmill.

basically the same as playing matt schaub.
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You can't believe it? I mean it's not really that hard to see a coach like O'Brien going with a guy who has actually won an NFL game over a dude who's started like 8 games and a rookie.

Have you watched the NFL before?
 
b0ng said:
You can't believe it? I mean it's not really that hard to see a coach like O'Brien going with a guy who has actually won an NFL game over a dude who's started like 8 games and a rookie.

Have you watched the NFL before?
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Several rookies have started at the QB position over more experienced players. Many better than Ryan Fitzpatrick.
 
b0ng said:
You can't believe it? I mean it's not really that hard to see a coach like O'Brien going with a guy who has actually won an NFL game over a dude who's started like 8 games and a rookie.
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do you even comprehend bro? i clearly stated why obrien, a coach who has yet to win a single nfl game went with fitzpatrick. he's the safe choice. he looks good in practice. he's the more proven product and its also the cowardly move that is devoid of bravery and outside the box thinking.

Have you watched the NFL before?
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wow. is that your safe go to putdown post?
 
Lord Bills said:
i just cannot believe Keenum or Savage cant beat out a guy who is in his 30s and someone who has never led a winning team on the field:

2008 Bengals 4-11
2009 bills 6-10
2010 bills 4-12
2011 bills 6-10
2012 bills 6-10
2013 titans 7-9

that's fitzpatrick's record since getting regular playing time.

Fitzpatrick's problem is, even though he's super smart, he sucks at handling competition. Fitzpatrick is great at practice and training camp when he isnt being pressured or challenged and him getting so many starting gigs is evidence of that despite always failing due to the fact that come sundays, people go after you.

they dont go after you in practice.

Keenum is the opposite. doesnt really practice well but is a gamer come game time.

What's the point of a stop gap measure which is basically what fitzpatrick is?

I would rather win 3-5 games with keenum and savage as oppose to being a treadmill team and winning 6-8 games. At least with keenum and savage, you get to see young qbs play, if they fall on their faces we find out what they do have or dont have, we lose a lot of games and we get premium picks next year to hopefully get a qb before the 3rd round.

Playing fitzpatrick just keeps you in the middle. going nowhere.

treadmill.

basically the same as playing matt schaub.
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Not sure of this treadmill crap you're talking about here. treadmill teams spend years not improving much more than their last year....... under the same coach that is..... We'd be closer to staying in the same position we fell to last year if we started Keenum & he proceeded to only win 1 more game than we won all of last year...something you said you'd be happy with...:toropalm: Hell Keenum would be the face of our failure having been the starter for all but 8-9 of our games the last 2 years. 2nd, this is BoB's 1st year as the HC and we don't know exactly how much improvement we're going to see.

Regardless of how many games Fitzpatrick has won in any 1 season of his career, he's won more in this league than Keenum or Savage have combined; & that's with 1 of those guys getting 7-8 starts to prove that he in fact can win in this league.

Keenum fanboys like to blame Keenum's 0-8 record on bad coaching and missing/inept talent around him but neglect to point this out when it comes to Fitz who by and large hasn't exactly been surrounded with great coaching and talent throughout his career either. I'm not saying that to say that Fitz is going to come out and light it up b/c that's not likely to happen. I'm saying it b/c despite his warts, Fitz has had some success in this league beyond what his individual numbers might indicate.

Furthermore, according to the HC, Keenum is neck & neck with a rookie who has played like 12 games in 3 years. That says more bad about Keenum who's been in the league 3 years now than it does about how good Savage is or how bad Fitz is.

Lastly, at the end of the day,BoB is trying to win games..period. & whether you want to admit it or not, the texans stand a better chance of doing that with Fitz at the helm than apparently Keenum or Savage right now.
 
thunderkyss said:
Several rookies have started at the QB position over more experienced players. Many better than Ryan Fitzpatrick.
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And none of those guys are on the Texans roster

Lord Bills said:
do you even comprehend bro? i clearly stated why obrien, a coach who has yet to win a single nfl game went with fitzpatrick. he's the safe choice. he looks good in practice. he's the more proven product and its also the cowardly move that is devoid of bravery and outside the box thinking.



wow. is that your safe go to putdown post?
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Why would a guy put a player who is more inexperienced and probably not as good as the current starter under center in live NFL games? To satisfy some fans need for "bravery"?

I don't even get how you have it in your head that Keenum or Savage is a better option at QB than Fitzpatrick other than they are unknown and you don't like Fitz. I can see the conversation now:

"Yeah Fitzpatrick is better but we gotta roll with Keenum because. . . reasons".


And no, my safe go-to put down: Get out, come back when you're thinking with your brain and not your emotions.
 
If you believe Fitz to be nothing more than a journeyman(which I do), then Keenum or Savage are lucky have the best opportunity to overtake him in a fair pre-season competition.

In reference to LB's "safe" reference, I get your meaning.. but I wouldn't go so far as to say cowardly.

I think it's safer to say he's been given lemons and he's making lemonade. I doubt there' an NFL coach out there that would envy having to pick from Fitz/Keenum/Savage.... O'brien has to approach this systematically. If not for his own sake, he owes it to every other player on the team.
 
Schaub and Kubiak are gone, yet there's still bitching. Some of you expect way too much.

Oh yeah, Keenum sucks.
 
Lord Bills AKA Taz said:
blah, blah blah....
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Your arguments are simplistic. You use record as THE determining factor...Keenum went 0 fer last year and yet you openly admit you'd want him over Fitz. What about Tebow? That guy was a winner. VY?


People might take actually take your non-sense more serious if you actually gave some analysis beyond something that everyone already knows. I haven't seen anyone here who seriously says that Fitz is going to turn into some franchise QB. You're arguing against ghost.

You really have no point and your just making a bunch of noise and spitting all over the place like:
images


What exactly is your point? That the Texans might not be good this year? That Fitz has been a mediocre at best QB throughout his career?

Thanks for letting everyone know these things. We get it.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Schaub and Kubiak are gone, yet there's still bitching. Some of you expect way too much.
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wtf are you talking about? i want the team to tank and get higher draft picks.


Oh yeah, Keenum sucks.
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ill reserve judgement until the guy gets a proper shot and not have to work with handicaps and undrafted bias along. basically giving the guy more rope than 8 games with a bad team and a bad coach.

its funny how i get accused of not being a texan fan and not even a houstonian when i want to give a houston kid the benefit of the doubt of more than 8 games with a bad team and a bad coach.

its like some people have vested interest in keenum failing so that their opinion of him sucking can be validated.

forgive me for rooting for the hometown cougar.

and im suppose to be the fake houstonian on this board?

:toropalm:
 
It's too soon to be worrying about this. Right now Fitzpatrick is holding everybody else off with his brain. There are no noodle arms in this camp and there are no statues. Everybody here can throw it and move at least a little. There's a pretty wide gap in experience (obviously) and in practices I'd expect Fitz's experience and smarts to put him way ahead of everybody else.

Once the preseason games start and we get to see these guys against live/semi-live competition other aspects of their game, "intangibles" if you will begin to appear. It's a lot like Vinny talking about how there are always guys who shine early in OTA's and training camp... before people put on pads and start hitting one another. Then the pressure turns up and players start showing who they really are.

If Keenum gets to stay on the team it will be due to making plays in preseason games and continuing to show improvement in practice. If Savage overtakes him it will be the same thing.

I kind of expect us to roll with Fitz and Savage with Keenum hitting the road but nothing is certain yet. I suspect that OB would like nothing better than for Keenum to make it impossible to cut him while continuing to see improvement from Savage but Case has to actually do it.

Until I see these three in at least preseason games I'm not drawing any conclusions. Fitz could be another Alex Smith just waiting for someone to give him enough talent around him and a system he can shine in.... or he might be (probably is) crap like we all think. Case might be a guy who got handed the wheel of the Titanic last year and just needs a chance to lead a team that isn't stuck in a ditch.... or he could just be another undrafted FA with no real future. Savage could be anything. Let it happen and quit bitching about so much before you have any reason to do so. We're like the living embodiment of old saying about "Borrowing trouble before it gets here". Enjoy the mystery for a while. It will be gone soon enough and we might not be happy that it is.
 
Lord Bills said:
wtf are you talking about? i want the team to tank and get higher draft picks.
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Yes. And the best way to do that is take out the Bad QB (Fitzpatrick) and replace him with someone you think is better (Keenum).

Great logic Einstein.

You're inconsistent and incoherent.

That's a pretty fuqed combo bro.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Yes. And the best way to do that is take out the Bad QB (Fitzpatrick) and replace him with someone you think is better (Keenum).

Great logic Einstein.

You're inconsistent and incoherent.

That's a pretty fuqed combo bro.
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bu bu but i thought keenum sucked?

bu bu but obrien is from belichek coaching tree. he will genius fitzpatrick into tom brady with a better beard.

here's my logic for the low intelligence posters like Lynell here:

Start Keenum the first 8 games.

Why? you find out if he really has it or not. Keenum has had Kubiak someone who a lot of people say is a quarterback guru. Now he's had bill obrien, a guy already being labeled a genius due to the belicheck connection.

If Keenum continues to suck, that's two coaches now where he couldnt cut it and basically vindicates him not being drafted. fine, at least obrien gave it a shot. his genius could not save keenum's career.

Now you go to savage. see what he has. give him the last 8 games and that's more definitive verification that you will ever get from training camp and practice. put him in the fire.

Id rather fail with keenum and savage than fail with fitzpatrick.

You fail with keenum and savage means you get higher draft picks and you start putting more effort in scouting quarterbacks.

You fail with fitzpatrick, YOU GET NOTHING. You waste an entire year winning 6-8 games and you know nothing about keenum or savage. That's one more year of prolonging the inevitable. one more year of training camp, offseason and another draft class.

You know fitzpatrick is not the long term solution.

Why wait?
Why not find out now?
 
Lord Bills said:
You know fitzpatrick is not the long term solution.

Why wait?
Why not find out now?
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Your whole argument is built on the premise that Fitzpatrick is definitely a failure.

He might be, but no head coach is going with a guy they think is worse in order to try something out. These guys have jobs to keep and not only that, there is player morale, fan morale, organization morale. You don't want to build a losing culture in the NFL. It's tough to get to the play-offs and you want a team that knows how to win.

Fitz may or may not be the best solution for QB. I'm on record in another thread saying that I like Keenum the best of the QB's we currently have.

But your argument is built on Losing.

You have a loser mentality and instead of giving the team the best chance to win you'd rather experiment because "We might as well lose with Keenum or Fitz"....

That's an asinine argument anyways, because either way, QB would be a strong possibility in the draft anyways. If you lose a bunch of games with Fitz, Savage, or Keenum they aren't going to rule out QB at the top of the draft.


You want the team to lose. And you think everyone should be receptive to that?

Get a clue.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Your whole argument is built on the premise that Fitzpatrick is definitely a failure.

He might be, but no head coach is going with a guy they think is worse in order to try something out. These guys have jobs to keep and not only that, there is player morale, fan morale, organization morale. You don't want to build a losing culture in the NFL. It's tough to get to the play-offs and you want a team that knows how to win.

Fitz may or may not be the best solution for QB. I'm on record in another thread saying that I like Keenum the best of the QB's we currently have.

But your argument is built on Losing.

You have a loser mentality and instead of giving the team the best chance to win you'd rather experiment because "We might as well lose with Keenum or Fitz"....

That's an asinine argument anyways, because either way, QB would be a strong possibility in the draft anyways. If you lose a bunch of games with Fitz, Savage, or Keenum they aren't going to rule out QB at the top of the draft.


You want the team to lose. And you think everyone should be receptive to that?

Get a clue.
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I think it works better if you build your freeways and roads before you put up your skyscrapers . I also think you don't reach on a position because you need it .
 
HOU-TEX said:
Personally, I still think Keenum will be cut before the start of the season.
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This is very likely to happen. BOB has done a lot of praising of Keenum as being a good student of the game and having a football brain...so basically the "he's a swell guy" kiss of death when it comes to damnation via faint praise. No mention of his skills today and he's having a tough time learning the new system.

Objectively, I think he's gone as well. Subjectively, I'd like the kid to suddenly have "it," but I don't think that's ever going to be Keenum in today's reality.
 
If Josh McCown at age 34 can come out and look like a pro bowler 12 years in, why not Fitzpatrick with another guy who's supposed to be a QB wizard?
 
Ryan said:
If Josh McCown at age 34 can come out and look like a pro bowler 12 years in, why not Fitzpatrick with another guy who's supposed to be a QB wizard?
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was he actually a pro bowler or did he just "look" like it?

matt schaub was a pro bowl legend. just sayin.

are you willing to bet on the exception instead of the rule?
 
Ryan said:
If Josh McCown at age 34 can come out and look like a pro bowler 12 years in, why not Fitzpatrick with another guy who's supposed to be a QB wizard?
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Yes, because every 12 year vet suddenly turns it around at 34 :spit: We're fawked, we have a crap o-line, crap starting qb, triple crap behind the crap qb, and no real pass rush, safeties, or olb's. TE is a huge concern as well.
 
NastyNate said:
Yes, because every 12 year vet suddenly turns it around at 34 :spit: We're fawked, we have a crap o-line, crap starting qb, triple crap behind the crap qb, and no real pass rush, safeties, or olb's. TE is a huge concern as well.
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So.....you're saying there's a chance we may suck this year?
 
DBCooper said:
So.....you're saying there's a chance we may suck this year?
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I try to cling to small turd nuggets of enthusiasm, but Derek Newton is still your starting right tackle. It goes downhill from there. I'll still be at 3-4 games when I'm not working graveyards, wearing Texans gear everyday of the football season I can. But yeah, it's going to be a long season...
 
I didn't hear OB's interview, but in the Chronicle this morning, they wrote that Keenum had mentioned that O'Brien and Godsey were pushing him to his limit, intentionally making him uncomfortable in adjusting to a fast-paced, multiple-set offense. But pushing the limits every day, he was making progress every day.

Fitz is adapting much faster because of his 10 years of experience. Keenum won't challenge for the starting position until he gets it. We don't know when that will be, but the day will come.
 
NastyNate said:
I try to cling to small turd nuggets of enthusiasm, but Derek Newton is still your starting right tackle. It goes downhill from there. I'll still be at 3-4 games when I'm not working graveyards, wearing Texans gear everyday of the football season I can. But yeah, it's going to be a long season...
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This is true, I will still be at the games. (Lord willing, that's all the McNair's care about)

Newton at RT = disaster.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I've heard Newton is bending much better this year and that should help .
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Probably bending over and......

I will believe it when I see it. I thought he would be much better after fully recovering from injury. After they signed a man that can barely walk to compete with Newton, (Clabo) I have my doubts.
 
steelbtexan said:
Probably bending over and......

I will believe it when I see it. I thought he would be much better after fully recovering from injury. After they signed a man that can barely walk to compete with Newton, (Clabo) I have my doubts.
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At least they have some jumbo TEs to help him if needed .
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Fitz may or may not be the best solution for QB. I'm on record in another thread saying that I like Keenum the best of the QB's we currently have.
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If I'm being honest... Fitz may very well be the best option on our roster. I was excited when we signed Case. He had a very successful college career, albeit at a smaller college. He's missing several tangibles, but he showed signs of having those intangibles.

However, I've seen little from him to suggest he can pick up a playbook. Ad-lib, make sht happen... sure. But working within a system... I'm very disappointed.

When he gets on the field this preseason, I want to see more play execution & less freestyle.
 
Going out on a limb here but feel the plan for Savage is to redshirt him his rookie season & let him develop @ his own pace, which is what Jacksonville says they're doing with the #3 overall selection, QB Blake Bortles.
 
thunderkyss said:
If I'm being honest... Fitz may very well be the best option on our roster. I was excited when we signed Case. He had a very successful college career, albeit at a smaller college. He's missing several tangibles, but he showed signs of having those intangibles.

However, I've seen little from him to suggest he can pick up a playbook. Ad-lib, make sht happen... sure. But working within a system... I'm very disappointed.

When he gets on the field this preseason, I want to see more play execution & less freestyle.
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Your bolded was addressed in the TC thread saying O'Brien stated Keenum is good at that and needed to do it more. Unless a better QB gets cut, I think we roll with what we have.
 
thunderkyss said:
If I'm being honest... Fitz may very well be the best option on our roster. I was excited when we signed Case. He had a very successful college career, albeit at a smaller college. He's missing several tangibles, but he showed signs of having those intangibles.

However, I've seen little from him to suggest he can pick up a playbook. Ad-lib, make sht happen... sure. But working within a system... I'm very disappointed.

When he gets on the field this preseason, I want to see more play execution & less freestyle.
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Keenum will be on the roster for at least half the season. If he's not, Savage wowed the hell out of the coaching staff.
 
beerlover said:
Going out on a limb here but feel the plan for Savage is to redshirt him his rookie season & let him develop @ his own pace, which is what Jacksonville says they're doing with the #3 overall selection, QB Blake Bortles.
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If you mean to say that Savage will end up on the practice squad, you can forget that. They aren't going to expose Savage to being picked up by another team, unless they think they've made a mistake in drafting him. Unless ole BoB surprises us, we'll see three QBs on the final roster.
 
Please stop quoting Lord Bills guys, not only does it render the ignore feature useless for me, but it lowers the overall intelligence of the board. :(
 
I'll have more opinions after the game. Well after I watch it on DVR. I really don't know how these guys are going to look right now. I have some idea, but I want to see what they look like...
 
Keenum is hot garbage as an NFL QB. He's possibly a decent 3rd option, good locker room type guy. But he's more likely to be an insurance salesman in 1 yr as opposed to starting NFL QB anywhere - for multiple reasons.

No sense in beating a dead horse. But here's the deal. You put the best player on the roster as the starter in each position to start the season. Right now, that is without even a slight question - Fitzpatrick. End of story.

This notion that you put someone in who is clearly a lesser talent to see what you have because you won't win anyway.... before the season even starts? Oy. My head hurts just thinking about the pure stupidity of that train of thought.

:wadepalm:
 
beerlover said:
Going out on a limb here but feel the plan for Savage is to redshirt him his rookie season & let him develop @ his own pace...
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I agree, but not on practice squad.

beerlover said:
... which is what Jacksonville says they're doing with the #3 overall selection, QB Blake Bortles.
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Disagree. You don't draft a QB #3 overall to not start him over the worst QB in the league -- Henne -- in 2013. I think Bradley is just trying to remove the pressure a bit.
 
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