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Kiper 2014

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 25Sack 3.0Int 0
He picked up another sack this weekend, but his stat line will draw some scrutiny. I just don't think the scrutiny will hold up when people really watch the tape. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the strength and strong hands to shed blocks and can pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner, as he beats average tackles both inside and outside, which prompts many double-teams. Teams make a great effort to neutralize him.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 1 | PLAYER CARD

2Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0
His return has been a success, and he seems destined for the top five. He's remained a disruptive force even with added attention, and become a better player. He's a good pass-rusher, but I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and has a long frame and reach. He could have left for the NFL in the spring, but more seasoning has him in great shape for 2014.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 2 | PLAYER CARD

3Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
GP 12GS 12
Another good story of a player returning and improving his draft status. A complete left tackle prospect with experience and a feisty, competitive nature. He's an intense worker and has great NFL bloodlines; his father, brother and two cousins have played in the league. Has strong skills as both a pass-protector and a finisher in the run game.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 3 | PLAYER CARD


4Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
Comp 245Att 345Pct 71.0Yds 3,268TD 25Int 3
Bridgewater is poised, smart, a consistent player and leader, and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation. He has great poise and increased polish. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement. I really like how he calibrates his throws, not using too much arm when he doesn't need to.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 4 | PLAYER CARD

5Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3
You can knock Mack due to competition, but you really have to watch him play and see how he lines up all over and can do everything to appreciate him. He is versatile and capable of rushing the passer with quickness and decent power, dropping into coverage and shedding tackles and making plays in the open field. He uses proper leverage to take on blocks and drive people back, and uses quickness and strong hands to shed. Plays with a great motor, but smart.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 7 | PLAYER CARD

6C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0
He doesn't look the part of an enforcer in the middle of a defense, but Mosley has the versatility and great cover skills that will make him an appealing talent in any scheme. He flies to the ball, scrapes well and gets off blocks and makes a ton of plays; now he simply needs to get a bit stronger and show leverage going downhill against the run. But on the weak side, he gets through blocks and chases everything down (or just beats people to the ball). That's where his future will be.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 6 | PLAYER CARD

7Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10
Watkins still has the same explosiveness that jumped off the screen during his freshman year, with added power, and also does a better job of working back to the ball to become a big factor when plays break down. He is extremely explosive, both before and after the catch. He has strong hands and uses his strength to beat defenders for the ball. The idea that he had a "down" season in 2012 was overstated, by the way.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 8 | PLAYER CARD

8Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1
Tuitt has a great combination of size and quickness, and I've compared him to a young Richard Seymour when he's playing at his best. He offers tremendous burst and power and the ability to work inside or outside and create pressure. Teams looking for a penetrating 3-4 DE will like his potential, but last season he also looked quick enough to turn the corner as a 4-3 DE, which is saying something for someone playing at about 320 pounds.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 9 | PLAYER CARD

9Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2
Looks explosive again, fully recovered from a knee that was hurting and slowed him some this season. Lee is a great prospect because he has so many NFL-ready traits. He has good speed, both in the short area and to beat defenders deep, is an effective route-runner, makes most routine catches and can play bigger than his size to make the spectacular ones. He's physical and extremely dangerous after the catch and will run through many arm tackles.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 10 | PLAYER CARD

10Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0
Guys like this are such a rare commodity. Nix is occasionally moved too easily and loses gap control, but at his best he has the rare size and strength to handle a zero-technique role -- keeping multiple blockers occupied and eating up two gaps, making life easy for linebackers cleaning up against the run. But he's not limited to that because he can really move, at least a lot better than you'd expect from a player his size.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 11 | PLAYER CARD

11Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3
An athletic tight who can haul in anything you throw his way, will be split out and can make plays after the catch. Has the size to overwhelm cornerbacks and most safeties, and also good burst and above-average straight-line speed. He can go up and get the ball, and does a good job of catching it with his hands away from his body. Great body control allows him to haul in errant throws. A QB's best friend.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 12 | PLAYER CARD

12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 20DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13
As competitive a player as you'll find, it's a reflection of how he plays; Manziel's attitude is that the play is never really over. He's an improviser and a gifted playmaker. Will that translate to the next level? Not perfectly, but a QB who can turn negative plays into positive ones has real value, and Manziel is plenty capable of executing the scripted stuff, too. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently.

PREVIOUS RANKING: No. 13 | PLAYER CARD

13Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9
This could be the next big decision that could shift the board, as Hundley could return to college. He is supremely gifted when it comes to raw tools -- his arm strength is obvious, and he might be ahead of schedule as an improviser when things break down. He'll just want to improve his command on throws because he's accurate but can be erratic with ball placement. He does a good job and is ahead of schedule with his pocket presence, ability to climb instead of retreat and with a sense of how to move away from pressure with his eyes down the field.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 22 | PLAYER CARD

14Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

15Brandon Scherff *AGE: 21DOB: 12/26/91HT: 6-5WT: 315POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

16Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

17Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
Tkl 121Sack 6.0Int 0

18Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

19Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
Att 165Yds 1,290Avg 7.8TD 14

20Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/22/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

21Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

22Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

23Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

24Loucheiz Purifoy *AGE: 20DOB: 12/16/92HT: 6-1WT: 189POS: CB
Tkl 24Sack 2.0Int 2

25Scott Crichton *AGE: 22DOB: 10/30/91HT: 6-3WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 43Sack 6.5Int 0
 
1.Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 36Sack 3.0Int 0

Whether he or Barr is taken first has more to do with scheme fit than performance. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the power to run through blockers and the speed to pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner; he doesn't even bend that well. He beats average tackles both inside and outside with his first step.

2.Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0

Has emerged as a possibility to go No. 1 overall and could be preferred to Clowney based on fit. A disruptive force even with added attention, Barr has become a better and more complete player. He's a good pass-rusher, using quick feet and hands to free himself, and he's disciplined. I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and a long frame and reach.

3.Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

4.Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3

5.C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0

6.Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10

7.Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2

8.Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1

9.Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
GP 13GS 13

Has risen more than any prospect this season and may not be done. Brought in as a guard, Robinson started at left tackle in the SEC as a redshirt freshman and held his own. This year, he was dominant, with increased strength making him closer to that complete package at tackle. He moves really well, with a powerful lower half that makes him tough to push backward; he has long arms and delivers a punch. He gets a good push in the run game and can get out in front. Could become a special player at tackle.

10.Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
Comp 268Att 382Pct 70.2Yds 3,523TD 28Int 4

He drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.

11.Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0

12.Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

13.Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3

14J.ohnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13

15.Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

16.Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
Tkl 133Sack 6.0Int 0

17.Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9

18.Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

19.Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
Att 183Yds 1,408Avg 7.7TD 14

20.Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

21.Justin Gilbert AGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB
Tkl 40Sack 0Int 6

22.Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

23.Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

24.Trent Murphy AGE: 22DOB: 12/22/90HT: 6-6WT: 261POS: LB
Tkl 58Sack 14Int 1

25.Darqueze Dennard AGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB
Tkl 59Sack 0Int 4
 
Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.
 
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.
 
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.

True. The problem is that Kiper and other draft "experts" have none of the inside stuff that the teams get in order to accurately slot them. So Kipers list is based off of tape and perception only. Pretty much like our lists. Until teams start leaking info all lists will be way outta wack IMO.
 
Kiper actually gets a lot of his info from NFL front office guys. Problem is sometimes they lie to him and he gets something way wrong.

He doesn't do much scouting on his own. He talks to people in the know and bases his opinions on what they tell him. That's why his lists are always changing so drastically and frequently.
 
Kiper actually gets a lot of his info from NFL front office guys. Problem is sometimes they lie to him and he gets something way wrong.

He doesn't do much scouting on his own. He talks to people in the know and bases his opinions on what they tell him. That's why his lists are always changing so drastically and frequently.

Bingo. Kiper is not a scout, and half of the organizations lie to him and the other half feeds him misinformation. :ahhaha:

And note this is not a mock draft, it's a "BPA" list. Big difference. There will be a lot more QBs at the top of a draft board this year.

So why post Kiper's stuff? He does "hear" things in the circles he is now in, and you can pick up a nugget or two about how a certain player is thought of.
 
Bingo. Kiper is not a scout, and half of the organizations lie to him and the other half feeds him misinformation. :ahhaha:

And note this is not a mock draft, it's a "BPA" list. Big difference. There will be a lot more QBs at the top of a draft board this year.

So why post Kiper's stuff? He does "hear" things in the circles he is now in, and you can pick up a nugget or two about how a certain player is thought of.

Yeah I have no problem with Kiper's stuff being posted on here. Just as long as we realize where it came from and don't take it as the gospel.
 
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.

At this point last year people were arguing whether Smith or Barkley would be the better QB in the NFL.

There's no accounting for teams being weird with their draft picks and guys taking huge falls, especially at the Combine if their numbers don't equal up to their performance on tape. Hell their bowl games haven't even played, something that has added significant boosts to players (Jamarcus Russell comes to mind, in his bowl game against ND). And then we are going to hear about guys blowing up in the Senior Bowl, East/West Shrine game, the Combine, Pro-Days and then the absolute ridiculousness of all the speculation once the meat of the process is over (remember, the draft is moving back into May next year).

We also haven't done free agency yet which also plays a large part in who drafts what. There are a few guys who are pretty decent at final draft predictions (Rick Gosseling writes for one of the Dallas papers and was pretty good at it) as well as Mayock and some others. All of their draft boards (except for Gosseling because he basically releases just one final mock about a week before the actual draft) change over the course of the off-season.

One of the best things about Kiper, is not his analysis itself, it's his database brain which has information on even the most obscure players from nowhere montana state that the raiders happen to pick in the second round. His analysis is mediocre, and I'm not entirely unsure if it's just fed to him from whatever "sources" or "contacts" he has in the NFL scouting world.
 
Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.

I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.
 
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I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.

Barr, to me, is everything you want in an OLB: natural pass rushing ability, speed, and comfortable in coverage. I don't think we would be so hampered if we somehow ended up with him over Clowney (whom I would prefer). Clowney, on the other hand, is that rare combination of speed and power that isn't some workout warrior, either. Due to his size, he could start at OLB and perhaps transition to 3-4 DE along with Watt once he gained about 14 pounds. I'd really recommend looking at at Brett Kollmann's analysis of Clowney in the bone spur discussion thread.
 
Barr, to me, is everything you want in an OLB: natural pass rushing ability, speed, and comfortable in coverage. I don't think we would be so hampered if we somehow ended up with him over Clowney (whom I would prefer). Clowney, on the other hand, is that rare combination of speed and power that isn't some workout warrior, either. Due to his size, he could start at OLB and perhaps transition to 3-4 DE along with Watt once he gained about 14 pounds. I'd really recommend looking at at Brett Kollmann's analysis of Clowney in the bone spur discussion thread.

I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.
 
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I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.

Not sure if you are referring to the Texans but the Texans may not be running a 3-4 when the new HC is hired, so Clowney would fit nicely in a 4-3 or a Tampa 2 defense as a pass rushing DE.
 
As porous as our 3-4 has been looking I don't see us sticking with it. Our MLBs are a pile of injuries and trash. Our OLBs couldn't rush across the street without falling. I would like us to go 4-3 and take Clowney. I think it, 4-3, would help protect Cushing.

If we do stay 3-4 then Barr is probably the better choice but we would need to find some more MLBs too.
 
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.
 
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.

Well having a good quarterback, protecting the quarterback, and pressuring the opposing quarterback are the three most important things in football. It's not like we are taking receivers.
 
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.

When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.
 
When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.

Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.
 
Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.

Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.
 
Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.

Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/39
 
Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/39

didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......:thinking:
 
didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......:thinking:

He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.
 
I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.


While I think Barr can be an above average pass rusher, I still don't see how people feel he is better than Mack. Just watch the difference between the two on film. Mack rarely gets tied up by blockers, his hand movement and balance are just so smooth it's a pleasure to watch him school guys like Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. He is the only defensive threat at Buffalo and he still maneuvers through double teams with ease. FF and TFL NCAA record holder for a reason.
 
He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.

You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.
 
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.

you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB :barman:
 
you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB :barman:

Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.
 
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.

I have been leaning this way lately. Seems like there is a great opportunity to build a dominating defense in this draft. I would love to see what What Watt and the defense would look like with another dominating player on the Dline.
 
Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.

Until proven otherwise, I will maintain at least two out of the top three (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel) & a third (dark horse now) franchise QB's in this draft at minimum but do you really want to take that chance?. Odds are against all three top prospects panning out depending on situation or unforeseen factors.

Lets just look @ Texan position. Manziel stands best chance of making instant impact because of his mobility, pocket presence, ability to extend plays & shoulder media/on field pressure. My reservation about him is not so much immaturity off the field as will be his durability. He will have to be smarter & avoid contact much as possible, know he will get tagged & miss some time. Keenum would make a great tandem back-up the offense will not deviate a whole lot long as Texans have a more healthy back-field. This would allow Texans to trade down.

Bortles will struggle if Texans don't fix offensive line & running game. Strongest arm of group with ability to throw long ball, good pocket presence but more a pocket QB. Would be a good fit if Texans change to power scheme, ball control offense like Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Looks like a bell cow franchise QB, size, arm, leadership ability.

Bridgewater would be exceptional spread offense QB like Chip Kelly runs in Philadelphia or Art Briles runs @ Baylor (is he a head coaching option for Texans?). Teddy could also fit in Pro-Style set which trumps the group because of his diversity to play in different packages. He is my clear consensus #1 overall pick but if Texans get a great trade offer & new coach has someone else in mind who he could plug in & play they you might get your wish :cool:

It is Christmas after all :worldpeace:
 
Anyone with insider access? I'd like to know where Bridgewater slid to & why. Without access, all we get is this.

In terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tape

  1. Jadaveon Clowney
  2. Anthony Barr
  3. Jake Matthews

 
frank-caliendo-mel-kiper-jr-impression-e1366994374381.png


Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd...
 
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So... I activated my "insider" account & found why Kiper dropped Bridgewater in his top 25.

10 Teddy Bridgewater
In terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tape
He drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.

Well, he doesn't give a reason for letting him slide. I find it interesting that even though he is the tenth best player in the draft, Kiper feels Bridgewater will most likely go in the top 5.

14 Johnny Manziel
Based on talk he would enter the draft, I did a full breakdown on Manziel. Take a look at that. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently. Height will always be a question, but he has proved it won't stop him.

He's got Hundley at 17, but we know Hundley stated he was going back to college. No other QB in his top 25 players.
 
Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...
 
LOL!! I don't think Thunder followed your link by his comment after this.

*For those too lazy to click the hyperlink, it goes to page 1 of this VERY thread... we are currently on page 2*

If you must know, I replied to the link he posted. The mods must have merged the threads. There was 2 weeks between my most recent post in this thread & the last post in the original.
 
Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...

Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!
 
Meh, if you don't like Kiper's opinions that's fine. But they aren't really his opinions. Kiper doesn't know a power play from an iso. He's a mouthpiece with good connections.
 
If you must know, I replied to the link he posted. The mods must have merged the threads. There was 2 weeks between my most recent post in this thread & the last post in the original.

Sorry you ponied up for it... not much there, imo, but it does spur conversation here while we watch the good teams play on.
 
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

But that is HIS job, that is ALL he does is research, evaluate and collect data on college draftees. Doesn't matter what someone else does, this is his job.

You would think someone who does this 24/7 365 would have know by doing his research that Jamarcus Russell was a fat, lazy SOB, that was now where NEAR John Elways skill set, 1 great game and should have NEVER been the #1 draft pick...

Keiper could tell me my hair is on fire, I still would not believe anything he has to say...
 
But that is HIS job, that is ALL he does is research, evaluate and collect data on college draftees. Doesn't matter what someone else does, this is his job.

You would think someone who does this 24/7 365 would have know by doing his research that Jamarcus Russell was a fat, lazy SOB, that was now where NEAR John Elways skill set, 1 great game and should have NEVER been the #1 draft pick...

Keiper could tell me my hair is on fire, I still would not believe anything he has to say...

It used to be his job. He started out in his parents garage and grew it from there. Today his job is a ESPN analyst, that means Kiper spends most of his time in production meetings, on air preparation and doing numerous on air segments throughout the day. Kiper does not have the time to dedicate to full time college players evaluations and draft preparations. He leaves most of that to the ESPN research staff.
 
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

I agree with BullNation. It sure seems to happen to Kiper a lot MORE! So much that if he says it's night I'll be wearin' my :shades:.
 
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