Kiper 2014

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by Playoffs, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
    Tkl 25Sack 3.0Int 0
    He picked up another sack this weekend, but his stat line will draw some scrutiny. I just don't think the scrutiny will hold up when people really watch the tape. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the strength and strong hands to shed blocks and can pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner, as he beats average tackles both inside and outside, which prompts many double-teams. Teams make a great effort to neutralize him.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 1 | PLAYER CARD

    2Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
    Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0
    His return has been a success, and he seems destined for the top five. He's remained a disruptive force even with added attention, and become a better player. He's a good pass-rusher, but I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and has a long frame and reach. He could have left for the NFL in the spring, but more seasoning has him in great shape for 2014.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 2 | PLAYER CARD

    3Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12
    Another good story of a player returning and improving his draft status. A complete left tackle prospect with experience and a feisty, competitive nature. He's an intense worker and has great NFL bloodlines; his father, brother and two cousins have played in the league. Has strong skills as both a pass-protector and a finisher in the run game.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 3 | PLAYER CARD


    4Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
    Comp 245Att 345Pct 71.0Yds 3,268TD 25Int 3
    Bridgewater is poised, smart, a consistent player and leader, and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation. He has great poise and increased polish. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement. I really like how he calibrates his throws, not using too much arm when he doesn't need to.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 4 | PLAYER CARD

    5Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
    Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3
    You can knock Mack due to competition, but you really have to watch him play and see how he lines up all over and can do everything to appreciate him. He is versatile and capable of rushing the passer with quickness and decent power, dropping into coverage and shedding tackles and making plays in the open field. He uses proper leverage to take on blocks and drive people back, and uses quickness and strong hands to shed. Plays with a great motor, but smart.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 7 | PLAYER CARD

    6C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
    Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0
    He doesn't look the part of an enforcer in the middle of a defense, but Mosley has the versatility and great cover skills that will make him an appealing talent in any scheme. He flies to the ball, scrapes well and gets off blocks and makes a ton of plays; now he simply needs to get a bit stronger and show leverage going downhill against the run. But on the weak side, he gets through blocks and chases everything down (or just beats people to the ball). That's where his future will be.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 6 | PLAYER CARD

    7Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
    Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10
    Watkins still has the same explosiveness that jumped off the screen during his freshman year, with added power, and also does a better job of working back to the ball to become a big factor when plays break down. He is extremely explosive, both before and after the catch. He has strong hands and uses his strength to beat defenders for the ball. The idea that he had a "down" season in 2012 was overstated, by the way.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 8 | PLAYER CARD

    8Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
    Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1
    Tuitt has a great combination of size and quickness, and I've compared him to a young Richard Seymour when he's playing at his best. He offers tremendous burst and power and the ability to work inside or outside and create pressure. Teams looking for a penetrating 3-4 DE will like his potential, but last season he also looked quick enough to turn the corner as a 4-3 DE, which is saying something for someone playing at about 320 pounds.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 9 | PLAYER CARD

    9Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
    Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2
    Looks explosive again, fully recovered from a knee that was hurting and slowed him some this season. Lee is a great prospect because he has so many NFL-ready traits. He has good speed, both in the short area and to beat defenders deep, is an effective route-runner, makes most routine catches and can play bigger than his size to make the spectacular ones. He's physical and extremely dangerous after the catch and will run through many arm tackles.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 10 | PLAYER CARD

    10Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
    Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0
    Guys like this are such a rare commodity. Nix is occasionally moved too easily and loses gap control, but at his best he has the rare size and strength to handle a zero-technique role -- keeping multiple blockers occupied and eating up two gaps, making life easy for linebackers cleaning up against the run. But he's not limited to that because he can really move, at least a lot better than you'd expect from a player his size.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 11 | PLAYER CARD

    11Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
    Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3
    An athletic tight who can haul in anything you throw his way, will be split out and can make plays after the catch. Has the size to overwhelm cornerbacks and most safeties, and also good burst and above-average straight-line speed. He can go up and get the ball, and does a good job of catching it with his hands away from his body. Great body control allows him to haul in errant throws. A QB's best friend.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 12 | PLAYER CARD

    12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 20DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
    Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13
    As competitive a player as you'll find, it's a reflection of how he plays; Manziel's attitude is that the play is never really over. He's an improviser and a gifted playmaker. Will that translate to the next level? Not perfectly, but a QB who can turn negative plays into positive ones has real value, and Manziel is plenty capable of executing the scripted stuff, too. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently.

    PREVIOUS RANKING: No. 13 | PLAYER CARD

    13Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
    Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9
    This could be the next big decision that could shift the board, as Hundley could return to college. He is supremely gifted when it comes to raw tools -- his arm strength is obvious, and he might be ahead of schedule as an improviser when things break down. He'll just want to improve his command on throws because he's accurate but can be erratic with ball placement. He does a good job and is ahead of schedule with his pocket presence, ability to climb instead of retreat and with a sense of how to move away from pressure with his eyes down the field.

    PREVIOUS RANK: No. 22 | PLAYER CARD

    14Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    15Brandon Scherff *AGE: 21DOB: 12/26/91HT: 6-5WT: 315POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    16Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
    Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

    17Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
    Tkl 121Sack 6.0Int 0

    18Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
    Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

    19Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
    Att 165Yds 1,290Avg 7.8TD 14

    20Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/22/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    21Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    22Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
    Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

    23Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
    Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

    24Loucheiz Purifoy *AGE: 20DOB: 12/16/92HT: 6-1WT: 189POS: CB
    Tkl 24Sack 2.0Int 2

    25Scott Crichton *AGE: 22DOB: 10/30/91HT: 6-3WT: 265POS: DE
    Tkl 43Sack 6.5Int 0
     
  2. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    1.Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
    Tkl 36Sack 3.0Int 0

    Whether he or Barr is taken first has more to do with scheme fit than performance. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the power to run through blockers and the speed to pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner; he doesn't even bend that well. He beats average tackles both inside and outside with his first step.

    2.Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
    Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0

    Has emerged as a possibility to go No. 1 overall and could be preferred to Clowney based on fit. A disruptive force even with added attention, Barr has become a better and more complete player. He's a good pass-rusher, using quick feet and hands to free himself, and he's disciplined. I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and a long frame and reach.

    3.Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    4.Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
    Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3

    5.C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
    Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0

    6.Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
    Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10

    7.Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
    Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2

    8.Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
    Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1

    9.Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
    GP 13GS 13

    Has risen more than any prospect this season and may not be done. Brought in as a guard, Robinson started at left tackle in the SEC as a redshirt freshman and held his own. This year, he was dominant, with increased strength making him closer to that complete package at tackle. He moves really well, with a powerful lower half that makes him tough to push backward; he has long arms and delivers a punch. He gets a good push in the run game and can get out in front. Could become a special player at tackle.

    10.Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
    Comp 268Att 382Pct 70.2Yds 3,523TD 28Int 4

    He drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.

    11.Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
    Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0

    12.Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
    Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

    13.Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
    Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3

    14J.ohnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
    Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13

    15.Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
    Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

    16.Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
    Tkl 133Sack 6.0Int 0

    17.Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
    Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9

    18.Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
    Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

    19.Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
    Att 183Yds 1,408Avg 7.7TD 14

    20.Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    21.Justin Gilbert AGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB
    Tkl 40Sack 0Int 6

    22.Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
    GP 12GS 12

    23.Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
    Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

    24.Trent Murphy AGE: 22DOB: 12/22/90HT: 6-6WT: 261POS: LB
    Tkl 58Sack 14Int 1

    25.Darqueze Dennard AGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB
    Tkl 59Sack 0Int 4
     
  3. bhsman

    bhsman All Pro

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    Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.
     
  4. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

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    It might also be the very basis for reaching.
     
  5. Blake

    Blake MMQB

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    I think he should change his name to that. Sounds way cooler!
     
  6. bhsman

    bhsman All Pro

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    Eh, I feel like it would lean more towards BPA, but I'd prefer Clowney FWIW
     
  7. TexansFTW

    TexansFTW All Pro

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    Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.
     
  8. Blake

    Blake MMQB

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    True. The problem is that Kiper and other draft "experts" have none of the inside stuff that the teams get in order to accurately slot them. So Kipers list is based off of tape and perception only. Pretty much like our lists. Until teams start leaking info all lists will be way outta wack IMO.
     


  9. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    Kiper actually gets a lot of his info from NFL front office guys. Problem is sometimes they lie to him and he gets something way wrong.

    He doesn't do much scouting on his own. He talks to people in the know and bases his opinions on what they tell him. That's why his lists are always changing so drastically and frequently.
     
  10. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    Bingo. Kiper is not a scout, and half of the organizations lie to him and the other half feeds him misinformation. :ahhaha:

    And note this is not a mock draft, it's a "BPA" list. Big difference. There will be a lot more QBs at the top of a draft board this year.

    So why post Kiper's stuff? He does "hear" things in the circles he is now in, and you can pick up a nugget or two about how a certain player is thought of.
     
  11. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I have no problem with Kiper's stuff being posted on here. Just as long as we realize where it came from and don't take it as the gospel.
     
  12. b0ng

    b0ng Ooops

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    At this point last year people were arguing whether Smith or Barkley would be the better QB in the NFL.

    There's no accounting for teams being weird with their draft picks and guys taking huge falls, especially at the Combine if their numbers don't equal up to their performance on tape. Hell their bowl games haven't even played, something that has added significant boosts to players (Jamarcus Russell comes to mind, in his bowl game against ND). And then we are going to hear about guys blowing up in the Senior Bowl, East/West Shrine game, the Combine, Pro-Days and then the absolute ridiculousness of all the speculation once the meat of the process is over (remember, the draft is moving back into May next year).

    We also haven't done free agency yet which also plays a large part in who drafts what. There are a few guys who are pretty decent at final draft predictions (Rick Gosseling writes for one of the Dallas papers and was pretty good at it) as well as Mayock and some others. All of their draft boards (except for Gosseling because he basically releases just one final mock about a week before the actual draft) change over the course of the off-season.

    One of the best things about Kiper, is not his analysis itself, it's his database brain which has information on even the most obscure players from nowhere montana state that the raiders happen to pick in the second round. His analysis is mediocre, and I'm not entirely unsure if it's just fed to him from whatever "sources" or "contacts" he has in the NFL scouting world.
     
  13. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

    Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  14. bhsman

    bhsman All Pro

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    Barr, to me, is everything you want in an OLB: natural pass rushing ability, speed, and comfortable in coverage. I don't think we would be so hampered if we somehow ended up with him over Clowney (whom I would prefer). Clowney, on the other hand, is that rare combination of speed and power that isn't some workout warrior, either. Due to his size, he could start at OLB and perhaps transition to 3-4 DE along with Watt once he gained about 14 pounds. I'd really recommend looking at at Brett Kollmann's analysis of Clowney in the bone spur discussion thread.
     
  15. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

    At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

    I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

    With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

    Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

    I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  16. BullNation4Life

    BullNation4Life Hall of Fame

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    Not sure if you are referring to the Texans but the Texans may not be running a 3-4 when the new HC is hired, so Clowney would fit nicely in a 4-3 or a Tampa 2 defense as a pass rushing DE.
     
  17. PapaL

    PapaL Loose Screw

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    As porous as our 3-4 has been looking I don't see us sticking with it. Our MLBs are a pile of injuries and trash. Our OLBs couldn't rush across the street without falling. I would like us to go 4-3 and take Clowney. I think it, 4-3, would help protect Cushing.

    If we do stay 3-4 then Barr is probably the better choice but we would need to find some more MLBs too.
     
  18. TexansFTW

    TexansFTW All Pro

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    I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

    Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

    In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

    All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

    No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.
     
  19. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    Well having a good quarterback, protecting the quarterback, and pressuring the opposing quarterback are the three most important things in football. It's not like we are taking receivers.
     
  20. Texian

    Texian Hall of Fame

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    When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.
     

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