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Texans FO frustrated with Kubiak?

thunderkyss said:
I expect greatness & Super Bowls just like everybody else. At the same time, from the Jaguars to the Browns.... none of those teams are considered elite. They've had their share of "success" we've had ours. The cycle of winning & losing continues.

We're going to have our good years & we're going to have our bad years. In the future I hope our good years last longer & our bad years shorter. Hopefully our high points get higher & our low points don't get as low.

It would have been nice if our high point culminated in a Super Bowl appearance, like the 49ers & spanned 3 years, like the 49ers. I'd have taken a Super Bowl victory like the Saints in their 2 good years at a time cycle.... but we didn't. It is what it is.

We'll see what Bob does next & we'll see how that effects the cycle. It might drop us back down, like the Dolphins, the Bills, the Browns, the Lions (who appear to be on a good year, which means they'll fire everyone & start all over again). But hopefully it'll lead us to many good years to come.

I honestly don't know what the right move will be. I wouldn't be upset if he fired Kubiak & brought in a completely new coaching staff. I wouldn't be upset if he got rid of the GM & rebuilt the talent acquisition part of the organization. I wouldn't be upset if he brought everyone back & had another go at it.

We'll see.
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Good one.

For years of 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, 6-10 you were telling us Negative Nellie's that slow and steady growth guaranteed a decade of playoff appearances once that plateau was reached. We just didn't see the light.

It's weird that eight years have netted the same two playoffs appearances that a rapid turnaround would have been "limited" to according to that theory.

I'm thinking the Texans would benefit by speeding up the process a little.
 
infantrycak said:
I definitely think they can but I will say some of the names which are thrown around I do not believe would be an improvement. Firing Kubiak seems to make the world rosy for some. To me the homework assignment isn't ready to grade until we see the replacement.
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I don't think there has ever been a single coach ever named on this board that one group or another couldn't logically "prove" was worse than Kubiak. Would some of them be a bad choice? Certainly. I still have to believe that there is someone, somewhere, that might actually be better than average and be an upgrade.
 
Lucky said:
Firing Kubiak is the first step. Yes, McNair has to find the right replacement. But fear of a mistake is no reason to continue on with the mistake that's here.
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Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

This isn't change for change's sake. It's change because change is necessary to move forward.
 
houstonspartan said:
Not saying that Smith is not accountable. But I am saying that his drafts have been fairly decent. What happens to those draft picks once they get in the door are all on the head coach.
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But I thought the coaches had too much influence on the draft?
 
Runner said:
Good one.

For years of 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, 6-10 you were telling us Negative Nellie's that slow and steady growth guaranteed a decade of playoff appearances once that plateau was reached. We just didn't see the light.
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I still believe it. But I don't think we've been watching slow & steady growth.

How has this team improved over the last two off-seasons? We took a few stabs, but nothing that's panned out. I think Texian is more right than not about the salary cap issues. I just don't believe his reasoning.
 
I think Kubiak is actually a pretty good coach, but the major flaw of this team has always been personnel decisions. The execution of Kubiak's schemes is limited by mediocre talent or lack of depth, specifically at the offensive line, and much of that problem is owned by Kubiak. I wrote in another thread that Kubiak's best personnel decisions have been the result of process, like Foster and Keenum. His worst ones were based on his impressions or evaluations, like Chris Brown and numerous linemen. None of us really know the balance of influence between Kubiak and Smith on draft decisions, but Smith has just pointed the finger at Kubiak, and that's a reliable indication of who's in the hot seat.

Realistically, I think the best solution is for McNair to conduct a critical review of his organization as it relates to scouting and personnel rather than interviewing new coaches. The benefits of keeping Kubiak -- as unpopular as that is around here -- is 1) He has an opportunity to maximize his best skillset as a QB coach by developing Keenum, and 2) The FO has already assessed Kubiak's strengths and weaknesses, and you can account for the weaknesses with supplemental staff. For an owner, having an accurate assessment of your manager's strengths and weaknesses is essential, and you can avoid the long and painful assessment period that comes with a replacement head coach.

I know that people have this idea that a championship head coach is one who simply executes every responsibility of his role better than his peers. The truth is that people who stand out among their peers only excel at two or three skills. A good owner knows how to set up that manager for success while accounting for and supplementing that manager's mediocrities. With a record of 12-4 last season, and the endorsement of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL, I think Kubiak can be set up for success. That's hard for a lot of fans to accept after this season, but a plague of injuries and a QB meltdown can't be pinned entirely on the coach. That's what fans have the hardest time struggling with: Sometimes injuries and circumstance can tank a season, and there is no one to fire.
 
thunderkyss said:
I still believe it. But I don't think we've been watching slow & steady growth.

How has this team improved over the last two off-seasons? We took a few stabs, but nothing that's panned out. I think Texian is more right than not about the salary cap issues. I just don't believe his reasoning.
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Of course you still believe. You have your reality distortion glasses on, and you are changing the argument. The theory was that slow and steady growth leading to the first playoff appearance was what mattered:

1) If the Texans have slow and and steady improvement - the Texans did this for years
2) When the Texans finally reach the playoffs - the Texans have made the playoffs
3) Then the Texans will be in the playoffs for a decade - I may be a bit premature since the team isn't mathematically eliminated, but I think the 2-7 Texans aren't making the playoffs this year.

You can toss out your standard, "Boy are you going to be surprised when the Texans win out and make the playoffs this year" post, but I'm talking about this football season, not a fictional future history of this season.
 
Texans_Chick said:
But as for Rick Smith, I see nothing he brings to the table. ZERO. He was hired as a guy who knew Denver way. Green/Reed free agent contracts were jokes, and '10 was a disaster because they had no experience in secondary and wasted a good offense. Why should anyone listen to him about anything? Wade Phillips has tube socks older than the time he was in the NFL. He has no decision making experience other than the Texans.
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Correct. It is no coincidence that Rick Smith was an Asst GM in DENVER who knew how Gary Kubiak wanted things to run in Houston before Smith was hired by the Texans. It also no coincidence that the Texans didn't really talk to anyone else about the position except Smith. This was all Gary's doing and pattern of behavior in the way Kubiak does business (Bush) that we have now come to learn.
 
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Runner said:
This isn't change for change's sake. It's change because change is necessary to move forward.
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yep. One of my all-time favorite quotes is right in line with you:

“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
~ Frank Zappa

[IMGwidthsize=400]http://www.thebeerdrifter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/frank-zappa.jpg[/IMG]
 
There are still people defending kubiak and saying he should have a job?

Not knowing if the replacement will be better is about the weakest thing I've heard. Give me a break.

When you guys go to sleep tonight if you find yourself in an uncomfortable position, just stay there. Don't wanna risk the next position being even worse. Just keep waking up with that same pain in your neck. Maybe eventually you'll just get used to it.
 
Brisco_County said:
I think Kubiak is actually a pretty good coach, but the major flaw of this team has always been personnel decisions. The execution of Kubiak's schemes is limited by mediocre talent or lack of depth, specifically at the offensive line, and much of that problem is owned by Kubiak. I wrote in another thread that Kubiak's best personnel decisions have been the result of process, like Foster and Keenum. His worst ones were based on his impressions or evaluations, like Chris Brown and numerous linemen. None of us really know the balance of influence between Kubiak and Smith on draft decisions, but Smith has just pointed the finger at Kubiak, and that's a reliable indication of who's in the hot seat.

Realistically, I think the best solution is for McNair to conduct a critical review of his organization as it relates to scouting and personnel rather than interviewing new coaches. The benefits of keeping Kubiak -- as unpopular as that is around here -- is 1) He has an opportunity to maximize his best skillset as a QB coach by developing Keenum, and 2) The FO has already assessed Kubiak's strengths and weaknesses, and you can account for the weaknesses with supplemental staff. For an owner, having an accurate assessment of your manager's strengths and weaknesses is essential, and you can avoid the long and painful assessment period that comes with a replacement head coach.

I know that people have this idea that a championship head coach is one who simply executes every responsibility of his role better than his peers. The truth is that people who stand out among their peers only excel at two or three skills. A good owner knows how to set up that manager for success while accounting for and supplementing that manager's mediocrities. With a record of 12-4 last season, and the endorsement of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL, I think Kubiak can be set up for success. That's hard for a lot of fans to accept after this season, but a plague of injuries and a QB meltdown can't be pinned entirely on the coach. That's what fans have the hardest time struggling with: Sometimes injuries and circumstance can tank a season, and there is no one to fire.
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We were 12-4 because we beat bad teams. Denver was still in the process of creating chemistry. Baltimore didn't have Ray and Suggs was just coming back from his Achilles. I don't think Chicago is that good of a team. Detroit had chances to seal the game but couldn't after Schaub's interception. There's really nothing to be proud about because any time a well coached, above average QB-led team came to play, we got SMOKED. Kubiak is not a good coach. He's not terrible, but he's certainly not good. He surrounds himself with bad personnel. I don't know what else you need to see.
 
bOODRO87 said:
We were 12-4 because we beat bad teams. Denver was still in the process of creating chemistry. Baltimore didn't have Ray and Suggs was just coming back from his Achilles. I don't think Chicago is that good of a team. Detroit had chances to seal the game but couldn't after Schaub's interception. There's really nothing to be proud about because any time a well coached, above average QB-led team came to play, we got SMOKED. Kubiak is not a good coach. He's not terrible, but he's certainly not good. He surrounds himself with bad personnel. I don't know what else you need to see.
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I think history is fairly clear that the Texans have had difficulties with teams that are .500 or better.
 
bOODRO87 said:
We were 12-4 because we beat bad teams. Denver was still in the process of creating chemistry. Baltimore didn't have Ray and Suggs was just coming back from his Achilles. I don't think Chicago is that good of a team. Detroit had chances to seal the game but couldn't after Schaub's interception. There's really nothing to be proud about because any time a well coached, above average QB-led team came to play, we got SMOKED. Kubiak is not a good coach. He's not terrible, but he's certainly not good. He surrounds himself with bad personnel. I don't know what else you need to see.
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Well stated, and your points are valid. I just feel that Kubiak was given too much rope to hang himself, and his Achilles heel is that he's incapable of making objective decisions about personnel. As a result, we didn't get to see him maximize what he does best. I believe that Kubiak with consistent personnel could regularly take a team deep into the post season every year.

If he's fired this season, I wouldn't object. But I also believe that a winning record would've been unlikely anyway with the injuries suffered and the QB meltdown.

And no matter who gets fired, I still believe this:

Realistically, I think the best solution is for McNair to conduct a critical review of his organization as it relates to scouting and personnel.
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Runner said:
Of course you still believe. You have your reality distortion glasses on, and you are changing the argument. The theory was that slow and steady growth leading to the first playoff appearance was what mattered:

1) If the Texans have slow and and steady improvement - the Texans did this for years
2) When the Texans finally reach the playoffs - the Texans have made the playoffs
3) Then the Texans will be in the playoffs for a decade - I may be a bit premature since the team isn't mathematically eliminated, but I think the 2-7 Texans aren't making the playoffs this year.

You can toss out your standard, "Boy are you going to be surprised when the Texans win out and make the playoffs this year" post, but I'm talking about this football season, not a fictional future history of this season.
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I'm not changing the argument, I'm agreeing with the people that said our F.O. screwed up the last two years. The team we have today is not as good as the team we had in 2011. Not in the coaching department, not on special teams. Not on the Offensive line, the secondary... not at the LB position, not at TE. The only thing we can say that is better about this team than the 2011 team, is the QB & I say that with rose colored glasses.

Slow & steady growth will lead to decades of football played at the highest level. Slow (which is what we've got, because we haven't "grown" in two years) will get you 2-7.
 
Texian said:
I think history is fairly clear that the Texans have had difficulties with teams that are .500 or better.
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This is the thing that bothers me the most about our current staff. Our record is abysmal against playoff level competition. I respect the heck out of Kubiak as an offensive coordinator. Ultimately I think he'll end up like Capers, a great coordinator and a mediocre HC. I'm tired of mediocrity.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not changing the argument, I'm agreeing with the people that said our F.O. screwed up the last two years. The team we have today is not as good as the team we had in 2011. Not in the coaching department, not on special teams. Not on the Offensive line, the secondary... not at the LB position, not at TE. The only thing we can say that is better about this team than the 2011 team, is the QB & I say that with rose colored glasses.

Slow & steady growth will lead to decades of football played at the highest level. Slow (which is what we've got, because we haven't "grown" in two years) will get you 2-7.
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So to summarize the modified theory.

Doing it "The Right Way" results in taking 5 years to get to the playoffs, then the team is at risk falling back if the growth tapers off.

Doing it "The Wrong Way" gets you to the playoffs in a couple of years, then the team is at risk of falling back if the growth tapers off.

Given that there are the exact same results, I prefer the fast turnaround.

I guess you have finally helped me demonstrate that The Right Way sophistry that had been posted for years was just spin to defend a flailing and failing program. Thanks!
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not changing the argument, I'm agreeing with the people that said our F.O. screwed up the last two years. The team we have today is not as good as the team we had in 2011. Not in the coaching department, not on special teams. Not on the Offensive line, the secondary... not at the LB position, not at TE. The only thing we can say that is better about this team than the 2011 team, is the QB & I say that with rose colored glasses.

Slow & steady growth will lead to decades of football played at the highest level. Slow (which is what we've got, because we haven't "grown" in two years) will get you 2-7.
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You are living in 1983 or something. In modern salary cap football, slow and steady keeps you one or two years behind..all the time.
 
thunderkyss said:
You're right. We should do it like Buffalo & Cleveland.
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The options are:

Kubiak's failing way
Buffalo's failing way
Cleveland's failing way


I think the "sunshiners" are the most pessimistic people on this board.

We "chicken littles" appear to be the optimists - we expect things can change for the better.
 
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Runner said:
I think the "sunshiners" are the most pessimistic people on this board.

We "chicken littles" appear to be the optimists - we expect things can change for the better.
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I think the 'sunshiners' are close to fulfilling Einstein's definition of insanity. :crazy:
 
Runner said:
The options are:

Kubiak's failing way
Buffalo's failing way
Cleveland's failing way


I think the "sunshiners" are the most pessimistic people on this board.

We "chicken littles" appear to be the optimists - we expect things can change for the better.
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Correct. It's actually depressing to hear from fans on this team who say, "I'd be happy getting another coach IF we can do better than Kubiak" and "Who else can we get?"

These are supposed "fans" of the "team," yet don't think we can do better than we are already doing.

That's not being a fan of the team; that's being a fan of Gary Kubiak. Own it, already.
 
houstonspartan said:
Correct. It's actually depressing to hear from fans on this team who say, "I'd be happy getting another coach IF we can do better than Kubiak" and "Who else can we get?"

These are supposed "fans" of the "team," yet don't think we can do better than we are already doing.

That's not being a fan of the team; that's being a fan of Gary Kubiak. Own it, already.
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It's easy to tear down arguments not made.

Find one person saying we can't do better. Folks saying IF are only asserting not everyone is better. If there is a coach you would say "I don't want him" about then you are in agreement but won't admit it.
 
Texans have no front office. Who are you talking about? Smithiak??? Kubiath??? McNair??? Roots?? Roots is a marketing person. Maybe that gives us an insight into the Texans focus.

The Texans are strictly a "renting" team. They exist from season to season losing talent every year (aging), never gaining. They are building no value obtaining no wealth. They are not even trying to build wealth in the way of talent. Again I ask what trades have we made that have increased the value of this team. Who have we traded and received a valuable asset be it a player or draft choices. This year we will lose Tate and get nothing in return.
We lost Mario and got nada. We never sell high, we only buy high and give up or dismiss. You don't get stronger or better the way the Texans operate. I would say overall our drafts are at best average but I think below average.

I am frustrated with the whole Texans organization.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Is there really anything to like about Kubiak?
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Kubiak the head coach or Kubiak the man?

I think a case can be made for HC, but it would be an unpopular position at the moment and certainly a slow and steady mentality.

But, I think if you objectively wrote the pros and cons on a sheet of paper, you could probably make and easier case against the HC part.

As far as Kubiak the man, I've heard nothing but positive things about Gary in that regard. He seems like a really decent guy on all accounts.
 
Double Barrel said:
Kubiak the head coach or Kubiak the man?

I think a case can be made for HC, but it would be an unpopular position at the moment and certainly a slow and steady mentality.

But, I think if you objectively wrote the pros and cons on a sheet of paper, you could probably make and easier case against the HC part.

As far as Kubiak the man, I've heard nothing but positive things about Gary in that regard. He seems like a really decent guy on all accounts.
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Any time I talk about Kubiak it has only to do with him as a head coach as I think it should be for everyone.
 
Double Barrel said:
Kubiak the head coach or Kubiak the man?

I think a case can be made for HC, but it would be an unpopular position at the moment and certainly a slow and steady mentality.

But, I think if you objectively wrote the pros and cons on a sheet of paper, you could probably make and easier case against the HC part.

As far as Kubiak the man, I've heard nothing but positive things about Gary in that regard. He seems like a really decent guy on all accounts.
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A buddy and fellow season ticket holder - who wants Kubak fired - met him at a golf event. He said Kubiak was one of the nicest human beings he's ever met. And said it was clear he was in the presence of someone who affected people. And, guys, this friend is a gruff attorney, and does not talk in such emotional, hyperbolic terms. But he was so impressed by meeting Kubaik that he was honest about the vibe he got from the guy.

And yet, he STILL wants him fired.

Just saying...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Taking Kubiak's health out of the equation, Gary has one year left on his contract. Starting in training camp with Brennan Williams and David Quessenberry, we've been set back with injuries. Despite all the haters, no one in the business anticipated such a rapid decline in Schaub's performance. And on a positive note, we're seeing the emergence of Case Keenum. Taking all these into account, I think McNair will give Gary the last year on his contract.
 
infantrycak said:
Not buying that. They have a total of 1 winning season and 0 playoffs between them during Kubiak's tenure.
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yeah, I did what I often accuse (rightly so) many other posters of doing and spitting out 1 liner w/o actually looking up facts. buffalo, Oakland and Cleveland are all on really bad runs right now in terms of playoffs and general suckitude.
 
houstonspartan said:
Correct. It's actually depressing to hear from fans on this team who say, "I'd be happy getting another coach IF we can do better than Kubiak" and "Who else can we get?"
.
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I'm not saying that. The only reason I want Kubiak to stay is because I believe Case's chances of success in the NFL is greater with Kubiak than not.

Secondly, I'm not saying Kubiak's way is great. I'm saying I still support the slow & steady approach to building a franchise as opposed to the fire everyone every other year the way the Browns has been doing it.

Just like in 2010, I'm fine if Kubiak is fired. I'm fine if Rick Smith is fired. But I'd prefer it's one or the other, to maintain continuity. There are some bad things going on here, but there are some good things. I'd rather keep the good, improve on them, and minimize the bad.

For instance.... what would you do if you were Arthur Blank?
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
yeah, I did what I often accuse (rightly so) many other posters of doing and spitting out 1 liner w/o actually looking up facts. buffalo, Oakland and Cleveland are all on really bad runs right now in terms of playoffs and general suckitude.
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Holy crap, I knew Oakland was bad but wow - on the way to their 11th non-winning season in a row, 9 of them 5 wins or less. Their MB must look like the cooling lake outside Mr. Burns' nuclear plant.
 
powda said:
Winston was a stud run blocker even if he sucked in pass pro and had a penchant for false starts. The point remains : was he worth the money to keep him? The Texans decided he wasn't and all of our attempts to replace him have failed.
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Rick's attempts to replace Winston?
 
infantrycak said:
Holy crap, I knew Oakland was bad but wow - on the way to their 11th non-winning season in a row, 9 of them 5 wins or less. Their MB must look like the cooling lake outside Mr. Burns' nuclear plant.
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Here is a link to last playoff appearances

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_franchise_post-season_droughts#Active_post-season_droughts

The Rams are headed towards double digits also...I need to put more thought into this, but looks like the salary keeps bad organizations bad.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not saying that. The only reason I want Kubiak to stay is because I believe Case's chances of success in the NFL is greater with Kubiak than not.

Secondly, I'm not saying Kubiak's way is great. I'm saying I still support the slow & steady approach to building a franchise as opposed to the fire everyone every other year the way the Browns has been doing it.

Just like in 2010, I'm fine if Kubiak is fired. I'm fine if Rick Smith is fired. But I'd prefer it's one or the other, to maintain continuity. There are some bad things going on here, but there are some good things. I'd rather keep the good, improve on them, and minimize the bad.

For instance.... what would you do if you were Arthur Blank?
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8 yrs in NFL time is beyond slow and steady, it's pathetic considering the current state of the franchise.

If I'm Arthur Blank I draft a pass rusher and trade up to get a LT to protect Ryan and I make the playoffs again. Dimitroff has shown he is willing to take risks and make moves. The Falcons ae in much better shape than the Texans and their slow and steady approach. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
8 yrs in NFL time is beyond slow and steady, it's pathetic considering the current state of the franchise.
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You're right. If I had to chose, I'd take the quick route. But whether you do it slow & steady, or quick, you've got to do it the right way. The Browns, Bills, Raiders.... they've been trying it the quick way, but they've been going about it all wrong.

Our slow & steady was "on the right track" up until a couple of years ago. The team has been going sideways for 2 years now as far as growth goes. We've been winning, but I think that shows how good a coach Kubiak really is. I understand he built this team, & the sideways direction is ultimately his fault. They made a bad assumption after 2011 & it bit them in the butt.

I just think it's easier to find someone capable of doing it slow & steady than it is to find the right guys to make it happen over night. Andy Ried didn't do anything over night. That team has been plagued by injury for the last 3-4 years. They've been collecting talent for quite some time now.

I tell you what, I think Gary did a fairly good job getting us from where we were to where we are. I honestly don't know if anyone could have done it faster. But right now, we're in a position where I believe a new coach would find success quick. Not so much in 2006.

That said. We were a losing franchise in 2006. Kubiak changed that after one season. Three years from then, we were in the play-offs. Had we fired Kubiak after 2010 it's possible we would still be experiencing this down-turn after back to back play-off seasons.

Would we still be as irate? Disappointed?

steelbtexan said:
If I'm Arthur Blank I draft a pass rusher and trade up to get a LT to protect Ryan and I make the playoffs again. Dimitroff has shown he is willing to take risks and make moves. The Falcons ae in much better shape than the Texans and their slow and steady approach. IMHO
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They've got one play-off victory since 2008 (6 years). Kubiak's got 2 (8 years). Why aren't you talking about finding a new head coach, or GM? The Falcons were probably expected to be the #3 team in the NFC & they've got the same 2-7 record we do.
 
Brisco_County said:
I think Kubiak is actually a pretty good coach, but the major flaw of this team has always been personnel decisions. The execution of Kubiak's schemes is limited by mediocre talent or lack of depth, specifically at the offensive line, and much of that problem is owned by Kubiak. I wrote in another thread that Kubiak's best personnel decisions have been the result of process, like Foster and Keenum. His worst ones were based on his impressions or evaluations, like Chris Brown and numerous linemen. None of us really know the balance of influence between Kubiak and Smith on draft decisions, but Smith has just pointed the finger at Kubiak, and that's a reliable indication of who's in the hot seat.

Realistically, I think the best solution is for McNair to conduct a critical review of his organization as it relates to scouting and personnel rather than interviewing new coaches. The benefits of keeping Kubiak -- as unpopular as that is around here -- is 1) He has an opportunity to maximize his best skillset as a QB coach by developing Keenum, and 2) The FO has already assessed Kubiak's strengths and weaknesses, and you can account for the weaknesses with supplemental staff. For an owner, having an accurate assessment of your manager's strengths and weaknesses is essential, and you can avoid the long and painful assessment period that comes with a replacement head coach.

I know that people have this idea that a championship head coach is one who simply executes every responsibility of his role better than his peers. The truth is that people who stand out among their peers only excel at two or three skills. A good owner knows how to set up that manager for success while accounting for and supplementing that manager's mediocrities. With a record of 12-4 last season, and the endorsement of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL, I think Kubiak can be set up for success. That's hard for a lot of fans to accept after this season, but a plague of injuries and a QB meltdown can't be pinned entirely on the coach. That's what fans have the hardest time struggling with: Sometimes injuries and circumstance can tank a season, and there is no one to fire.
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8 yrs and Schaub is Gary/ Ricks guy. They should all be held accountable with their jobs. History says BoB doesn't hold anybody accountable on the on field product side of the org.
 
thunderkyss said:
You're right. If I had to chose, I'd take the quick route. But whether you do it slow & steady, or quick, you've got to do it the right way. The Browns, Bills, Raiders.... they've been trying it the quick way, but they've been going about it all wrong.

Our slow & steady was "on the right track" up until a couple of years ago. The team has been going sideways for 2 years now as far as growth goes. We've been winning, but I think that shows how good a coach Kubiak really is. I understand he built this team, & the sideways direction is ultimately his fault. They made a bad assumption after 2011 & it bit them in the butt.

I just think it's easier to find someone capable of doing it slow & steady than it is to find the right guys to make it happen over night. Andy Ried didn't do anything over night. That team has been plagued by injury for the last 3-4 years. They've been collecting talent for quite some time now.

I tell you what, I think Gary did a fairly good job getting us from where we were to where we are. I honestly don't know if anyone could have done it faster. But right now, we're in a position where I believe a new coach would find success quick. Not so much in 2006.

That said. We were a losing franchise in 2006. Kubiak changed that after one season. Three years from then, we were in the play-offs. Had we fired Kubiak after 2010 it's possible we would still be experiencing this down-turn after back to back play-off seasons.

Would we still be as irate? Disappointed?



They've got one play-off victory since 2008 (6 years). Kubiak's got 2 (8 years). Why aren't you talking about finding a new head coach, or GM? The Falcons were probably expected to be the #3 team in the NFC & they've got the same 2-7 record we do.
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Ifs and butts

Yes I will take a risk take over a guy who shutters at the thought of taking a risk.

Jst look at the Seahawks taking a chance on Wilson, the Ravens fiing their OC towards the end of last season, Harbaugh starting Kaepermick. Do you think Gary would take these chances.

As far as Rick goes this team isn't nearly as talented as we (the casual fans think it is)

Looks like it's about time to $$$$$ the fiddler. LOL
 
steelbtexan said:
Ifs and butts
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There were no if's & buts in there. Nothing wrong with slow & steady if it's done right. We didn't do it right.

steelbtexan said:
Yes I will take a risk take over a guy who shutters at the thought of taking a risk.

Jst look at the Seahawks taking a chance on Wilson, the Ravens fiing their OC towards the end of last season, Harbaugh starting Kaepermick. Do you think Gary would take these chances.
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What's the difference between what Harbaugh did & what Kubiak did? Every time Schaub got hurt, he put another QB in. When he found a QB with better tools, he stuck with that guy even though his "starter" was healthy.

Seattle didn't have a QB with Schaub's resume. Picking the unknown Wilson over the unknown Flynn isn't any different than what happened to Flynn in Oakland. How's that working out for them?

I'm pretty sure if we went into the offseason without a starting QB, Kubiak would have chosen the better of the two or three guys we had in camp.

steelbtexan said:
As far as Rick goes this team isn't nearly as talented as we (the casual fans think it is)

Looks like it's about time to $$$$$ the fiddler. LOL
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I think there are several teams out there that get more production/success out of their talent than we do.
 
Here is an opinion piece that came out yesterday about Kubiak from UprootedTexan over at battleredblog. Check out an excerpt below:

The news that the front office is unhappy with Kubiak came out four days ago. It is now Friday, and not a single member of the front office, not Rick Smith, neither of the McNairs, not even Snuffy the copy boy has come out to say that Rapoport's statement is untrue. If he were mistaken, someone in a position of authority would have gotten behind a microphone by now and said something to that effect.


http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/11/15/5102424/just-how-hot-is-kubiaks-seat
 
thunderkyss said:
He's got a point.
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Why would anybody in position of authority (Bob McNair or Rick Smith) want to hold a press conference to talk about a 2-7 team that has greatly failed to meet their high expectations? It would be sad if we lose these next two games at home against the Raiders and Jaguars, but I wouldn't be the least bit shocked. This has nothing to do with Gary Kubiak or any of the coaching staff. We're just a bad team right now due to injuries and some unfortunate mistakes. I applaud the team's effort the last three games. We had a chance to win all of them.

I just want to finish these last seven games, win or lose, and focus on the off-season. Mainly the draft and free agency. I can't wait for 2014. Talking about Gary Kubiak's future right now is just silly. That should be talked about when the season is over. No matter if we finish 2013 with a 9-7 record or 2-14 record. The bottom line is we're not going to the playoffs anymore. We're playing for pride now. For some fans, they would rather have the highest draft pick possible. If we go 2-14 our odds of having the first overall pick is 90 %.
 
Sometime you need someone to build something and then need someone to take over and do something with it.

There is a lot of potential in this team, but there seems to be a shortage of someone to grab them by the neck and take them where they need to go. A leader needs to inspire someone to go to hell and back. Payton, Harbaugh, Belichek... those guys seem like they inspire their guys to cause hate and discontent and make things happen. Gary is a guy that would knock you down and then ask if you're okay.

You can have all the best players in the world, but if you don't have the right guy pointing them in the right direction it doesn't mean a damn thing.
 
I see nothing wrong with how this team was being built, they built through the draft like any good team should, BUT the problem is that you get these good players and then when it comes pay day you cannot afford them all. Just imagine what Watt is going to cost us here very soon.

And as far as Schaub goes, he was an above average QB until this year, and before Haynesworth flopped on his foot he was a very good QB imo. Theres certain things you cant control.

AND this staff has been very good in drafting players, well they were before this seasons draft cause as of now it looks like the worst we've had in a while. This team is not as bad as the record indicates IMO. I believe next season we will return to the top of the AFC.
 
EllisUnit said:
I see nothing wrong with how this team was being built, they built through the draft like any good team should, BUT the problem is that you get these good players and then when it comes pay day you cannot afford them all. Just imagine what Watt is going to cost us here very soon.

And as far as Schaub goes, he was an above average QB until this year, and before Haynesworth flopped on his foot he was a very good QB imo. Theres certain things you cant control.

AND this staff has been very good in drafting players, well they were before this seasons draft cause as of now it looks like the worst we've had in a while. This team is not as bad as the record indicates IMO. I believe next season we will return to the top of the AFC.
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The fly in the ointment is Smubiak mortgaged the farm prior to the 2011 season. That along with Peyton's broken neck and Jeff Fisher's departure enabled the Texans to be much improved. Starting with the 2012 season, payments for the 2011 mortgage loan became due. In order to pay the piper, the Texans have had to make many trips to the Pawn Shop, along with refinancing the mortgage each year, just to meet their minimal financial obligations for each season since 2011. As a result their standard of living has declined significantly and Smubiak is about to lose the farm.
 
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Texian said:
The fly in the ointment is Smubiak mortgaged the farm prior to the 2011 season. That along with Peyton's broken neck and Jeff Fisher's departure enabled the Texans to be much improved. Starting with the 2012 season, payments on the 2011 mortgage loan became due. In order to pay the piper the Texans have had to make one to many trips to the Pawn Shop along with refinancing that mortgage loan each and every year just to meet their financial obligations. As a result their standard of living has declined and they're about to lose the farm.
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haha not a bad analogy, but no we will not lose the farm, there are ways to free up money of course the mgmt of the texans will have to grow some balls first.
 
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