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Texans FO frustrated with Kubiak?

Cant find it.

The Texans FO should've become frustrated after that much celebrated 9-7 2009 season. Included in that season was the most frustrating loss in Texans history. The Monday night loss to Buds Tacks. It let me know that winning meant more to the fanbase than it does to the Texans org.

That loss was harder to take than the Rosencopter. IMHO
 
I'm going to steer this back on topic. The FO may be frustrated with Kubiak and yes his responsibility is to hold assistants accountable however you can't blame everything on him.

Injuries have hurt this team otherwise our record would be something else. Hell even good teams struggle (e.g. Steelers).

Whether or not we bring back Kubiak is up to McNair & Company to decide. I just hope if we let him go we sure as hell have someone in mind that will commit to us and can bring a different culture to this team.
 
eriadoc said:
I've said repeatedly that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Winston. That's not the point. The plan for replacing him sucked. They thought they could replace a guy that started every game in his Texans career with a 7th round draft pick and/or the guy behind him that never did unseat him from the job (Butler).
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I don't have a problem with your general idea, except you quoted a post where the argument is about "what anyone thinks of Winston"

One guy is trying to portray Eric as an all-pro & that was not the case.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't have a problem with your general idea, except you quoted a post where the argument is about "what anyone thinks of Winston"

One guy is trying to portray Eric as an all-pro & that was not the case.
Click to expand...

Winston was a stud run blocker even if he sucked in pass pro and had a penchant for false starts. The point remains : was he worth the money to keep him? The Texans decided he wasn't and all of our attempts to replace him have failed.
 
Well I don't have an explanation for why some can't see the thread or can't open it. It appears and opens just fine for me. I just stuck it at the top of the forum. Wasn't trying to block access.

kingtexan said:
Threads get randomly deleted here all the time. Welcome to TT.
Click to expand...

No they do not. Rarely are threads deleted and when they are it is intentional. 99% of the time threads disappear because they are merged.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't have a problem with your general idea, except you quoted a post where the argument is about "what anyone thinks of Winston"

One guy is trying to portray Eric as an all-pro & that was not the case.
Click to expand...


Winston was overpaid and they made a smart move by cutting him, but they were the ones that over paid him to begin with.
 
infantrycak said:
Well I don't have an explanation for why some can't see the thread or can't open it. It appears and opens just fine for me. I just stuck it at the top of the forum. Wasn't trying to block access.



No they do not. Rarely are threads deleted and when they are it is intentional. 99% of the time threads disappear because they are merged.
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Just an update. Don't see it at the top of the page and the link above is showing invalid. Not sure what is going on. Honestly, first time in my long time here I've had the issue.
 
kingtexan said:
Threads get randomly deleted here all the time. Welcome to TT.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who hasn't even been here a year.

Hey, let's try to make up some crap to hang on the mods who work here for free. Winning idea. Who wants order in their forums anyway.

Aren't you the guy who thinks it's cool to throw ice at players?
 
Brisco_County said:
Says the guy who hasn't even been here a year.

Hey, let's try to make up some crap to hang on the mods who work here for free. Winning idea. Who wants order in their forums anyway.

Aren't you the guy who thinks it's cool to throw ice at players?
Click to expand...

Anything constructive to add, or you just going to stand pat with that LGBT avatar?
 
infantrycak said:
Well I don't have an explanation for why some can't see the thread or can't open it. It appears and opens just fine for me. I just stuck it at the top of the forum. Wasn't trying to block access.
/QUOTE]

Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

This is what I get trying to open the link.
Click to expand...
 
HoustonFrog said:
Just an update. Don't see it at the top of the page and the link above is showing invalid. Not sure what is going on. Honestly, first time in my long time here I've had the issue.
Click to expand...

still not working for me either.....why **** gotta be complicated :kubepalm:
 
On the radio they think it could be rick smith trying to shift blame on the coaches to save his own ass.

Said casserly tried to buddy up with McNair towards the end as well.
 
Rey said:
On the radio they think it could be rick smith trying to shift blame on the coaches to save his own ass.

Said casserly tried to buddy up with McNair towards the end as well.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Just like Reed saying 'no one is throwing at me', and Ben Tate thinking we should run the ball more now that Foster is out and he's in a contract year.
 
Somebody needs to tell the front office Kubiak is building the team "The Right Way". Throw in some Tom Landry facts too.

That'll show 'em.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Please try the thread now
Click to expand...

It's visible now. Did not come up in search earlier... must have been hidden for a bit. Thanks.

In trying to go to the original closed thread: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64514

Chrome blocks it..
Danger: Malware Ahead!
Google Chrome has blocked access to this page on www.texanstalk.com.
Content from planetsmilies.net, a known malware distributor, has been inserted into this web page. Visiting this page now is very likely to infect your computer with malware.
Malware is malicious software that causes things like identity theft, financial loss, and permanent file deletion.
Click to expand...

May be what what the issue was... ?

It was time for a new one anyway, which is here: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread
 
Has McNair ever had genuine expectations before where the Texans performance was concerned? I ask this because in the past he's always been such a patient, "warm and fuzzy" kind of owner but the team is only what? 12 years old?

When McNair started this he knew nothing. All he knew was that it was going to take them a long, long time to build a winning franchise. Maybe even 4-5 years. He did 4-12, he did 5-11, and he did 7-9. The whole time he was supportive and patient and methodical. Then 2-14 happened and heads rolled. None of it was done in the press and it all seemed to take so very, very long back then. I remember the Capers/Casserly "purge" taking place in slow motion after the 2005 season but the heads started rolling with Palmer after what? Two weeks?.

Who fires their OC after two weeks?

The whole year Bob said the right things and got Dan Reeves to come in and be his independent football advisor and when it was all done he flushed the staff (with the exception of Marciano) and hired Gary.

Gary begat Rick and we started this process all over. Bob McNair has had the patience of a Saint in the years since. If he's got any ink then "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" must be scrolled across his back in big letters. He gave Capers 4 years. He's given Kubiak 8. He's had one real meltdown (6-10) in that time and taken matters into his own hands one (Wade Phillips hiring) that we know of.

Now 2013 happens and Uncle Bob is talking Super Bowl or Bust in the preseason. he's got Ed Reed bringing the wisdom and all of his best players are contracted up and healthy. Preseason looks like things are going to be a slam dunk and then then we come out and pull an (admittedly ugly) 2-0 start.

Since then it's been losses, bad records, injuries, inexplicable decisions from his coaching staff, and terrible play from people who were not just expected to play well but who were certain to play well. More contracts given out to guys who went down with injuries or just mailed it in after getting "theirs".

Every man has his limit.

First we see Schaub left on the bench for Keenum, then we see a bunch of rookies sent packing before the KC game. Now we got Ed Reed being given his walking papers by a team that never admitted a mistake it could possibly get away with pretending never happened while someone is telling reporters that the front office is upset with the coaches?

We always assume that Uncle Bob is this guy who's so different from Jerry Jones or Bud Adams. We've watched his team for 12 years as he didn't meddle or apply too much pressure on anyone to do anything. he just sat there with that silly smile on his face waiting to get his Lombardi Trophy.

I think McNair is about to "Hulk Out". I think he's fixing to start firing coaches like a big dog. He's not getting what he paid for and he'll bust it all up after this season whether the Texans turn it around or not. Too much has gone wrong for McNair to continue to hold the rope. We're getting a new coach after this season is over. I'm sure of it.
 
Hervoyel said:
Has McNair ever had genuine expectations before where the Texans performance was concerned? I ask this because in the past he's always been such a patient, "warm and fuzzy" kind of owner but the team is only what? 12 years old?

When McNair started this he knew nothing. All he knew was that it was going to take them a long, long time to build a winning franchise. Maybe even 4-5 years. He did 4-12, he did 5-11, and he did 7-9. The whole time he was supportive and patient and methodical. Then 2-14 happened and heads rolled. None of it was done in the press and it all seemed to take so very, very long back then. I remember the Capers/Casserly "purge" taking place in slow motion after the 2005 season but the heads started rolling with Palmer after what? Two weeks?.

Who fires their OC after two weeks?

The whole year Bob said the right things and got Dan Reeves to come in and be his independent football advisor and when it was all done he flushed the staff (with the exception of Marciano) and hired Gary.

Gary begat Rick and we started this process all over. Bob McNair has had the patience of a Saint in the years since. If he's got any ink then "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" must be scrolled across his back in big letters. He gave Capers 4 years. He's given Kubiak 8. He's had one real meltdown (6-10) in that time and taken matters into his own hands one (Wade Phillips hiring) that we know of.

Now 2013 happens and Uncle Bob is talking Super Bowl or Bust in the preseason. he's got Ed Reed bringing the wisdom and all of his best players are contracted up and healthy. Preseason looks like things are going to be a slam dunk and then then we come out and pull an (admittedly ugly) 2-0 start.

Since then it's been losses, bad records, injuries, inexplicable decisions from his coaching staff, and terrible play from people who were not just expected to play well but who were certain to play well. More contracts given out to guys who went down with injuries or just mailed it in after getting "theirs".

Every man has his limit.

First we see Schaub left on the bench for Keenum, then we see a bunch of rookies sent packing before the KC game. Now we got Ed Reed being given his walking papers by a team that never admitted a mistake it could possibly get away with pretending never happened while someone is telling reporters that the front office is upset with the coaches?

We always assume that Uncle Bob is this guy who's so different from Jerry Jones or Bud Adams. We've watched his team for 12 years as he didn't meddle or apply too much pressure on anyone to do anything. he just sat there with that silly smile on his face waiting to get his Lombardi Trophy.

I think McNair is about to "Hulk Out". I think he's fixing to start firing coaches like a big dog. He's not getting what he paid for and he'll bust it all up after this season whether the Texans turn it around or not. Too much has gone wrong for McNair to continue to hold the rope. We're getting a new coach after this season is over. I'm sure of it.
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Herv, that all sounds good, and I agree with what you want to happen, but, you seem to be assuming a lot that may not be there. McNair has shown via his actions where his priorities lie. He wants a team where everyone is nice and gets along. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily; I just think it's unrealistic sometimes when it comes to sports.

McNair wants a team like the Packers or Steelers, that can win with nice people running it. And, unfortunately, I think he's going to hold out until he gets it.

I held out massive hope in 2010 that we would see a coaching change. That was the perfect scenario. Instead, our coach got an extension. This time I'm preparing myself that we will have the same coach for many more years.
 
houstonspartan said:
Herv, that all sounds good, and I agree with what you want to happen, but, you seem to be assuming a lot that may not be there. McNair has shown via his actions where his priorities lie. He wants a team where everyone is nice and gets along. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily; I just think it's unrealistic sometimes when it comes to sports.

McNair wants a team like the Packers or Steelers, that can win with nice people running it. And, unfortunately, I think he's going to hold out until he gets it.

I held out massive hope in 2010 that we would see a coaching change. That was the perfect scenario. Instead, our coach got an extension. This time I'm preparing myself that we will have the same coach for many more years.
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I don't know. It's not just what I want to happen. It's actually what I think will happen. I think McNair has his limit and I think he's got to feel a little bit like a chump right now. He was genuinely confident that the Texans were going to perform this year and his team left him hanging out there looking a bit like a fool for thinking that they were going to make some real noise this year.

I don't think he's been the one pushing for changes. I think his "underlings" are desperately trying to rearrange the deck chairs because they sense something. They've never been this "reactive" in all the time Kubiak has been here. Maybe that one year when Richard Smith released the hounds and saved the season (if you can call 8-8 "saved") back in 2007 (or was it 2008? I don't remember) That should tell us something too.

I think he'll take the opportunity to clean house. I really do.
 
Hervoyel said:
I don't know. It's not just what I want to happen. It's actually what I think will happen. I think McNair has his limit and I think he's got to feel a little bit like a chump right now. He was genuinely confident that the Texans were going to perform this year and his team left him hanging out there looking a bit like a fool for thinking that they were going to make some real noise this year.

I don't think he's been the one pushing for changes. I think his "underlings" are desperately trying to rearrange the deck chairs because they sense something. They've never been this "reactive" in all the time Kubiak has been here. Maybe that one year when Richard Smith released the hounds and saved the season (if you can call 8-8 "saved") back in 2007 (or was it 2008? I don't remember) That should tell us something too.

I think he'll take the opportunity to clean house. I really do.
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In 6 weeks, it will happen. At least on the coaching level. Not sure how McNair feels about Smith.
 
Hervoyel said:
I don't know. It's not just what I want to happen. It's actually what I think will happen. I think McNair has his limit and I think he's got to feel a little bit like a chump right now. He was genuinely confident that the Texans were going to perform this year and his team left him hanging out there looking a bit like a fool for thinking that they were going to make some real noise this year.

I don't think he's been the one pushing for changes. I think his "underlings" are desperately trying to rearrange the deck chairs because they sense something. They've never been this "reactive" in all the time Kubiak has been here. Maybe that one year when Richard Smith released the hounds and saved the season (if you can call 8-8 "saved") back in 2007 (or was it 2008? I don't remember) That should tell us something too.

I think he'll take the opportunity to clean house. I really do.
Click to expand...

Agree that they've never been this "reactive."

I don't know. I see your point, and want to agree with you, but, something about this season is not sitting well with that theory. For some reason, I think Kubiak getting sick and Cushing's injury will factor into not many changes.

Hope I'm wrong.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Here's my article on subject.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/

McClain says in chat 1 that front office wouldn't throw under bus publicly 2 Rick Smith isn't going anywhere even if Kubiak canned. Doesn't given reasons, likely relationship with McNairs/contract extension.

What has Rick Smith ever accomplished? You might think the game has passed the coaches by, but Smith has done nothing ever in NFL.
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Whenever I see the GM and "Front Office" try and take more control over the organization from the coaching staff I'm reminded of how Ladd Herzog got Bum Phillips fired and worked his way into being "the power" in the Houston Oilers organization. When an egomaniac who knows nothing about football gets control of an NFL franchise you get the Houston Oilers circa 1980-1988 experience. In short "Chaos" while the GM flails around hiring stooges who don't threaten him.

No thanks. McNair won't but he should fire them both. Then he should go find himself a real, tested GM who should begin the coach hunt.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Here's my article on subject.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/

McClain says in chat 1 that front office wouldn't throw under bus publicly 2 Rick Smith isn't going anywhere even if Kubiak canned. Doesn't given reasons, likely relationship with McNairs/contract extension.

What has Rick Smith ever accomplished? You might think the game has passed the coaches by, but Smith has done nothing ever in NFL.
Click to expand...

Lol. Steph, I like a lot of your stuff, but, just is just another veiled defense of Kubiak. You clearly don't want him fired, for any reason. Ok, I get it.

Not saying that Smith is not accountable. But I am saying that his drafts have been fairly decent. What happens to those draft picks once they get in the door are all on the head coach.

Why in the world can't we just let Kubiak go already! Why are we so attached to this guy? Jesus.
 
houstonspartan said:
Not saying that Smith is not accountable. But I am saying that his drafts have been fairly decent. What happens to those draft picks once they get in the door are all on the head coach.
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So basically even though you say Smith is accountable, you are saying GMs have no accountability. They pick these awesome players and the coaches either coach them up or coach them down?

When you do draft good players it's the GMs job to keep them. He failed to keep 3 of 4 really good players from the excellent 2006 draft and hasn't been very good at keeping young players since. IMO Smith is now trying to shift blame to Kubiak & Phillips for his failed draft picks in an attempt to keep his job. They are in bed together and should be tossed out together. McNair's only hire should be GM. GM should get to pick the HC (with McNair having final say).


Rick Smith's drafts:
2007 was bad. Nobody left on the roster.
2008 was Duane Brown and maybe Slaton. 1 left on roster.
2009 was solid. Only Brian Cushing left on roster.
2010 is debatable. I'd say average at best. 5 left on roster.
2011 was JJ Watt and maybe Brooks Reed. 6 left on roster.
2012 is TBD but not looking very good. 7 left on roster.
2013 is TBD but looking average. 2 left on roster.

Just for reference here are all the picks:
2007
1/10 (from Atlanta) Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle Louisville
3/73 Jacoby Jones* Wide receiver Lane
4/123 (from New Orleans) Fred Bennett Cornerback South Carolina
5/144 Brandon Harrison Safety Stanford
5/163 (from New Orleans) Brandon Frye Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
6/183 Kasey Studdard Offensive guard Texas
7/218 Zac Diles Linebacker Kansas State

2008
1/26 (from Baltimore) Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
3/79 Antwaun Molden Cornerback Eastern Kentucky
3/89 (from Baltimore) Steve Slaton Running back West Virginia
4/118 Xavier Adibi Linebacker Virginia Tech
5/151 Frank Okam Defensive tackle Texas
6/173 (from Baltimore) Dominique Barber Safety Minnesota
7/223 Alex Brink Quarterback Washington State

2009
1/15 Brian Cushing Linebacker Southern California
2/46 Connor Barwin Defensive end Cincinnati
3/77 Antoine Caldwell Center Alabama
4/112 Glover Quin Cornerback New Mexico
4/122 (from Minnesota) Anthony Hill Tight end North Carolina State
5/152 James Casey Tight end Rice
6/188 Brice McCain Cornerback Utah
7/223 Troy Nolan Safety Arizona State

2010
1/20 Kareem Jackson Cornerback Alabama
2/58 (from New England) Ben Tate Running back Auburn
3/81 Earl Mitchell Defensive tackle Arizona
4/102 (from Kansas City) Darryl Sharpton Linebacker Miami (FL)
4/118 Garrett Graham Tight end Wisconsin
5/144 (from Kansas City) Sherrick McManis Cornerback Northwestern
6/187 Shelley Smith Offensive guard Colorado State
6/197 (from San Diego) Trindon Holliday Wide receiver LSU
7/227 Dorin Dickerson Tight end Pittsburgh

2011
1/11 J. J. Watt Defensive End Wisconsin
2/42 Brooks Reed Linebacker Arizona
2/60 (from New England) Brandon Harris Cornerback Miami (FL)
4/127 (from Washington) Rashad Carmichael Cornerback Virginia Tech
5/144 (from Washington) Shiloh Keo Safety Idaho
5/152 (from Washington) T. J. Yates Quarterback North Carolina
7/214 Derek Newton Offensive tackle Arkansas State
7/254 Cheta Ozougwu Defensive end Rice

2012
1/26 Whitney Mercilus Linebacker Illinois
3/68 (from Tampa Bay) DeVier Posey Wide Receiver Ohio State
3/76 (from Philadelphia) Brandon Brooks Offensive Guard Miami (OH)
4/99 (from Tampa Bay via Philadelphia) Ben Jones Center Georgia
4/121 Keshawn Martin Wide Receiver Michigan State
4/126 (from New England via Denver and Tampa Bay) Jared Crick Defensive End Nebraska
5/161 Randy Bullock Kicker Texas A&M
6/195 Nick Mondek Offensive Tackle Purdue

2013
1/27 DeAndre Hopkins Wide Receiver Clemson
2/57 D.J. Swearinger Safety South Carolina
3/89 Brennan Williams Offensive Tackle North Carolina
3/95 (compensatory selection) Sam Montgomery Defensive End LSU
4/124 Trevardo Williams Defensive End Connecticut
6/176 (from Tennessee via Minnesota, Arizona, and Oakland) David Quessenberry Offensive Tackle San Jose State
6/195 Alan Bonner Wide Receiver Jacksonville State
6/198 (from Atlanta via St. Louis) Chris Jones Defensive Tackle Bowling Green
6/201 (compensatory selection) Ryan Griffin Tight End Connecticut
 
houstonspartan said:
Lol. Steph, I like a lot of your stuff, but, just is just another veiled defense of Kubiak. You clearly don't want him fired, for any reason. Ok, I get it.

Not saying that Smith is not accountable. But I am saying that his drafts have been fairly decent. What happens to those draft picks once they get in the door are all on the head coach.

Why in the world can't we just let Kubiak go already! Why are we so attached to this guy? Jesus.
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???

"Veiled" meaning DIDN'T SAY THAT ANYWHERE IN THE BLOG POST.

I'm good with Kubiak going if the replacement is better option. My appetite for change completely dependent on quality of replacement.

But as for Rick Smith, I see nothing he brings to the table. ZERO. He was hired as a guy who knew Denver way. Green/Reed free agent contracts were jokes, and '10 was a disaster because they had no experience in secondary and wasted a good offense. Why should anyone listen to him about anything? Wade Phillips has tube socks older than the time he was in the NFL. He has no decision making experience other than the Texans.
 
Texans_Chick said:
What has Rick Smith ever accomplished? You might think the game has passed the coaches by, but Smith has done nothing ever in NFL.
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Absolutely. These guys came in together and should leave the same way.

And they most definitely should leave.
 
houstonspartan said:
Lol. Steph, I like a lot of your stuff, but, just is just another veiled defense of Kubiak. You clearly don't want him fired, for any reason. Ok, I get it.

Not saying that Smith is not accountable. But I am saying that his drafts have been fairly decent. What happens to those draft picks once they get in the door are all on the head coach.

Why in the world can't we just let Kubiak go already! Why are we so attached to this guy? Jesus.
Click to expand...

Texans_Chick said:
???

"Veiled" meaning DIDN'T SAY THAT ANYWHERE IN THE BLOG POST.

I'm good with Kubiak going if the replacement is better option. My appetite for change completely dependent on quality of replacement.

But as for Rick Smith, I see nothing he brings to the table. ZERO. He was hired as a guy who knew Denver way. Green/Reed free agent contracts were jokes, and '10 was a disaster because they had no experience in secondary and wasted a good offense. Why should anyone listen to him about anything? Wade Phillips has tube socks older than the time he was in the NFL. He has no decision making experience other than the Texans.
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LOL!! Steph is a T-Sip.

She'd have Mack Brown as the Texans next head coach. If not Mack, Fred. Unfortunately Darryl's not available..:kitten:
 
Texans_Chick said:
I'm good with Kubiak going if the replacement is better option. My appetite for change completely dependent on quality of replacement.
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If? Why on earth do you not think the Texans couldn't attract a quality replacement? There is still a lot of star quality on this team. Holes? Yes. But the building blocks are there. Good coaches will jump at the chance to be here.
 
Runner said:
Somebody needs to tell the front office Kubiak is building the team "The Right Way". Throw in some Tom Landry facts too.

That'll show 'em.
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I expect greatness & Super Bowls just like everybody else. At the same time, from the Jaguars to the Browns.... none of those teams are considered elite. They've had their share of "success" we've had ours. The cycle of winning & losing continues.

We're going to have our good years & we're going to have our bad years. In the future I hope our good years last longer & our bad years shorter. Hopefully our high points get higher & our low points don't get as low.

It would have been nice if our high point culminated in a Super Bowl appearance, like the 49ers & spanned 3 years, like the 49ers. I'd have taken a Super Bowl victory like the Saints in their 2 good years at a time cycle.... but we didn't. It is what it is.

We'll see what Bob does next & we'll see how that effects the cycle. It might drop us back down, like the Dolphins, the Bills, the Browns, the Lions (who appear to be on a good year, which means they'll fire everyone & start all over again). But hopefully it'll lead us to many good years to come.

I honestly don't know what the right move will be. I wouldn't be upset if he fired Kubiak & brought in a completely new coaching staff. I wouldn't be upset if he got rid of the GM & rebuilt the talent acquisition part of the organization. I wouldn't be upset if he brought everyone back & had another go at it.

We'll see.
 
Lucky said:
If? Why on earth do you not think the Texans couldn't attract a quality replacement? There is still a lot of star quality on this team. Holes? Yes. But the building blocks are there. Good coaches will jump at the chance to be here.
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I definitely think they can but I will say some of the names which are thrown around I do not believe would be an improvement. Firing Kubiak seems to make the world rosy for some. To me the homework assignment isn't ready to grade until we see the replacement.
 
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