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Texans FO frustrated with Kubiak?

Wolf said:
Again, if not for injuries..we wouldnt be discussing this ( these three players) well edit. Schaub just went AWOL
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It's Rick Smith's job to sign back-ups as well. Every team suffers from injuries. It's going to happen in the NFL. The good teams have back-ups that are ready to step-up and step in.

As for Schaub's decline, it started way before this year. His decline started at last half of last season. As a GM, you have to recognize that players are going to decline and prepare for them.
 
CretorFrigg said:
It's Rick Smith's job to sign back-ups as well. Every team suffers from injuries. It's going to happen in the NFL. The good teams have back-ups that are ready to step-up and step in.

As for Schaub's decline, it started way before this year. His decline started at last half of last season. As a GM, you have to recognize that players are going to decline and prepare for them.
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its two fold. rick couldnt just say, matt sucks im not signing him....were going with yates....gary has lots to do with that...at least rick made it so we can cut schaub this off-season
 
Texian said:
It might have to do with him being a single Dad with an autistic son. And Joe is not just a good guy in the community he's a great guy in the community. So it's kind of hard to hate on Joe Marciano. IMHO I think Bob McNair has taking a special liking to Joe Marciano.
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That would explain a lot. But McNair has to be a business man in regards to this team at some point or he is no better then Jerry Jones. Hook Marciano up with a job at one of his other businesses but this HAS to be Marciano's final season with the team.
 
Texian said:
It might have to do with him being a single Dad with an autistic son. And Joe is not just a good guy in the community he's a great guy in the community. So it's kind of hard to hate on Joe Marciano. IMHO I think Bob McNair has taking a special liking to Joe Marciano.
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Wrong, it's quite easy to hate Joe Marciano the ST Coordinator.

I do not care about that other stuff.
 
He should have been replaced years ago so that he wouldn't have had a stress attack.
 
TEXANRED said:
Sounds like Rick Smith attempting to keep his job.
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I hope McNair's first move is to ditch him, and then the whole staff.

At a time when the head coach is unhealthy, and a FO source comes after the interim coach with defensive criticism, it shows there is little integrity or control in the FO.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
I have zero real problems with Rick Smith. That guy has done an amazing job over the years. Of course some moves have panned out and others haven't. This is real life.
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What has Smith done exacty other than re-upping schaub, signing reed, and subpar draft classes.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I hope McNair's first move is to ditch him, and then the whole staff.

At a time when the head coach is unhealthy, and a FO source comes after the interim coach with defensive criticism, it shows there is little integrity or control in the FO.
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I think McNair's lost the team. :D
 
TEXANRED said:
Sounds like Rick Smith attempting to keep his job.
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This is what I meant by the same 2010 scenario. In 2010 talk radio was reporting NFL sources were reporting Kubes was likely to be fired, but Rick Smith wasn't, and I never understood how that could happen when Gary basically tells Rick what to do in the Texans structure.
 
McNair said this was a Super Bowl or bust season. I hope he sticks to his word and brings in a new coaching staff. And Wade Phillips is not a new coaching staff.
 
texanhead08 said:
This is what I meant by the same 2010 scenario. In 2010 talk radio was reporting NFL sources were reporting Kubes was likely to be fired, but Rick Smith wasn't, and I never understood how that could happen when Gary basically tells Rick what to do in the Texans structure.
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Because Gary really doesn't tell Rick what to do.

The way the power works, is that Rick gives a lot of weight to Kubiak and the other coaches opinions in getting players but still does try to goes about brining in certain players he thinks will help.

You know why it is obvious that Sam Montgomery and Travado Williams were Front Office/Rick Smith picks? Because Wade Phillips doesn't really rotate at the OLB position. Brooks Reed rarely saw the field UNTIL Mario Williams got hurt, the same for Mercilus and we even had two potential rookie OLBs, Justin Tuggle and the released Willie Jefferson, this season that played well in preseason and training camp that only saw playing time in garbage time this season. The Front Office was gunning for change at OLB or new blood, the coaches are fine with who they got.

You see it with this team all too often, DeVier Posey, Brandon Brooks, James Casey before his last two seasons and many others that the Front Office picks up and have to worm their way into the coaches' graces despite being clearly talented and potentially better players then the guys the coaches have playing in front of them.

Rick Smith clearly has a working relationship with Kubiak and other coaches and tries to get guys they would like but people that say or think Kubiak is pulling Rick Smith's strings on EVERY roster move are giving Kubiak more power then he has.
 
Naija Texan said:
Because Gary really doesn't tell Rick what to do.

The way the power works, is that Rick gives a lot of weight to Kubiak and the other coaches opinions in getting players but still does try to goes about brining in certain players he thinks will help.

You know why it is obvious that Sam Montgomery and Travado Williams were Front Office/Rick Smith picks? Because Wade Phillips doesn't really rotate at the OLB position. Brooks Reed rarely saw the field UNTIL Mario Williams got hurt, the same for Mercilus and we even had two potential rookie OLBs, Justin Tuggle and the released Willie Jefferson, this season that played well in preseason and training camp that only saw playing time in garbage time this season. The Front Office was gunning for change at OLB or new blood, the coaches are fine with who they got.

You see it with this team all too often, DeVier Posey, Brandon Brooks, James Casey before his last two seasons and many others that the Front Office picks up and have to worm their way into the coaches' graces despite being clearly talented and potentially better players then the guys the coaches have playing in front of them.

Rick Smith clearly has a working relationship with Kubiak and other coaches and tries to get guys they would like but people that say or think Kubiak is pulling Rick Smith's strings on EVERY roster move are giving Kubiak more power then he has.
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you can't give smith all the credit when things go right and none of the blame when things go wrong. It started when we were in cap hell and dumping winston and briesel and continued with his ineptitude by not being able to replace them. Smith has done nothing but mismanage the cap and continue to miss on draft picks. His time should be done here just like kubiak.
 
I've never liked the get your Coach before you get your GM dynamic. I like a top-down orgainization.
 
TEXANRED said:
you can't give smith all the credit when things go right and none of the blame when things go wrong. It started when we were in cap hell and dumping winston and briesel and continued with his ineptitude by not being able to replace them. Smith has done nothing but mismanage the cap and continue to miss on draft picks. His time should be done here just like kubiak.
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Wasn't really giving him that much credit, I mentioned he pulled the trigger on getting both Montgomery and Jefferson for all the good that did the team.

I am sick of people bringing up Briesel and Winston. I liked those guys but one was up for a contract and the other was overpaid on a previous contract that kept him here during a time they wanted to secure at least one side of the line. Keeping either means you are hurting your cap more or risk not retaining the likes of proven pro bowlers such as Duane Brown, Arian Foster or Chris Myers. I think a healthy DeMeco Ryans would have been great on this team despite people saying he lost a step or wouldn't fit the scheme, but it was a roster move to free up space. You SHOULD pay your best playmakers to retain them, balancing that with letting talented guys go while working the draft for depth for potential next gen players or just cheap rotation guys while working under the cap is what a real GM's job is.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing him get thrown out either. He and his office have a good eye for talent, especially with UDFAs and street free agents but among their normal off season free agents you can count the ones that had major positive impact on one hand (Antonio Smith, Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning and Wade Smith) and his drafting has been a mix bag in some seasons of good finds, busts and guys that blow up once they leave the team's sphere of influence.

Rick Smith doesn't get enough credit for all the good or bad that he and his front office have done for this team. But after a season like this, he really hasn't done enough to not get taken out in the tide should the McNair family clean house of the current coaches.
 
Naija Texan said:
Wasn't really giving him that much credit, I mentioned he pulled the trigger on getting both Montgomery and Jefferson for all the good that did the team.

I am sick of people bringing up Briesel and Winston. I liked those guys but one was up for a contract and the other was overpaid on a previous contract that kept him here during a time they wanted to secure at least one side of the line. Keeping either means you are hurting your cap more or risk not retaining the likes of proven pro bowlers such as Duane Brown, Arian Foster or Chris Myers. I think a healthy DeMeco Ryans would have been great on this team despite people saying he lost a step or wouldn't fit the scheme, but it was a roster move to free up space. You SHOULD pay your best playmakers to retain them, balancing that with letting talented guys go while working the draft for depth for potential next gen players or just cheap rotation guys while working under the cap is what a real GM's job is.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing him get thrown out either. He and his office have a good eye for talent, especially with UDFAs and street free agents but among their normal off season free agents you can count the ones that had major positive impact on one hand (Antonio Smith, Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning and Wade Smith) and his drafting has been a mix bag in some seasons of good finds, busts and guys that blow up once they leave the team's sphere of influence.

Rick Smith doesn't get enough credit for all the good or bad that he and his front office have done for this team. But after a season like this, he really hasn't done enough to not get taken out in the tide should the McNair family clean house of the current coaches.
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My point being is we should have never been put in a situation when you have to dump your starting oline to save cap room. If winston was overpaid that is is Smith's fault cus he negotiated the extension. The more damning point is you dump those guys 3 years ago and you are still unable to find their replacements and you still have no cap room. We trade Ryans and then what, replace him with Brady James, Joe mays, and other scrubs? mean while cushing can't buy a healthy season, you don't even attempt to talk to mario williams and waste a 1st round pick in merciless.

Rick should have been fired just for the Ahman Green signing but now the Reed signing. How's glover doing btw?

you let leech go, you dont replace him
you let winston go, you dont replace him
you let brisiel go, you dont replace him
you let ryans go, you dont replce him
you let williams go, you dont replace him
you let quinn go, you dont replace him
you let barwin go, you dont replace him

you run a 34 defense but have 0 starting nfl quality lb's.

you even extend a 30 yo subpar qb to a 6 year extension.

and did i mention we never seem to have any cap space? it's one thing to suck but its another to be in cap hell and suck.
 
TEXANRED said:
you let leech go, you dont replace him
you let winston go, you dont replace him
you let brisiel go, you dont replace him
you let ryans go, you dont replce him
you let williams go, you dont replace him
you let quinn go, you dont replace him
you let barwin go, you dont replace him

.
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goes without saying but all 7 of these starters were replaced with players that weren't as good as them (Barwin's a push). Reminds me of the scenario after the Texans first defensive season - I think we were 16th in the league in our inaugural year. We started replacing the aged Vets with draft choices that weren't nearly as good as the players that we let go and we were soon sporting the worst defense in the NFL.
 
pfff I blame everybody I always thought lately the FO and RICK SMITH has the final say in the draft and F/a

bottom line the FO has failed from picking so many bust picks the last 3years and bust F/a I don't know why the FO is talking they should be fired 2 I say CLEAN HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!
 
Vinny said:
goes without saying but all 7 of these starters were replaced with players that weren't as good as them (Barwin's a push). Reminds me of the scenario after the Texans first defensive season - I think we were 16th in the league in our inaugural year. We started replacing the aged Vets with draft choices that weren't nearly as good as the players that we let go and we were soon sporting the worst defense in the NFL.
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Funny how history repeats itself. in fact minus the bengals and browns this is the same schedule we went 2-14 in 2005.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Interesting time for this to be published, especially with an organization that rarely has leaks.

Change is coming.
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It's a shot across the bow for Kubiak. It's also evidence that the Sam Montgomery bust is making a big impact internally.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games.
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Here's how this is meant to be interpreted: "There is a serious problem with the quality of the depth, it is a major factor in these losses, and this particular problem is not the result of the GM's decisions."

And I believe all three points are true.

This 4th quarter fatigue has not been a problem until this season. Even last year, they were rotating pass rushers and linemen. In 2011, the "Next man up" mantra was the result of reliable depth. But this season, Kubiak cut some rookie rotational players (Montgomery, Jefferson, Jones) who have cost valuable roster spots, development time, and a 3rd round pick. That pick was meant to be used for Barwin's replacement.

The FO's critique about the coaches having too much draft input is a statement to Kubiak saying, "If these players cannot stay on the roster, you need to stop listening to the sources that made these recommendations." That interpretation makes a lot of sense if you consider how quickly Kubiak cut Montgomery, indicating that the kid wasn't his idea to begin with.

In a way, they're giving Kubiak a pass by recognizing that much of the fault lies on those advisers, but they're also saying, "We expect you to get your kitchen in order and take ownership of these draft decisions going forward."
 
CretorFrigg said:
It's Rick Smith's job to sign back-ups as well. Every team suffers from injuries. It's going to happen in the NFL. The good teams have back-ups that are ready to step-up and step in.

As for Schaub's decline, it started way before this year. His decline started at last half of last season. As a GM, you have to recognize that players are going to decline and prepare for them.
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It wasn't just Schaub that started to decline last year. The entire team started the week after the bye last year. We were not the same team after the bye. Both the offense and the defense has not been the same since.
 
eriadoc said:
I think McNair's lost the team. :D
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What!?! No way! McNair just has his Ox in a ditch....for the 8th consecutive year....

Problem is THIS particular ox continues to end up in that same ditch and can't stay on it's path....Maybe it's time to put down this ox and get one that can say on the path....
 
Personally, I'd like to know who's idea it was to cut Chris Jones over players like Montgomery, Trevardo, McClain, etc. Epic failure, imo.
 
Hervoyel said:
That's exactly what I thought. For this organization this is how something like this begins. The only leaks the Texans ever have are intentional, planned leaks. I almost feel like I did the week Chris Palmer got sent packing. It's like the frustration is finally getting to the guys who make decisions.
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It does have that 2005 feel to it...with the exception that the Texans are still making new records. Of course, it's a rather dubious one this time: first time the franchise has lost 7 games in a row.

It's obvious what needs to be done. What we are seeing with leaks like this is the first tremors of plate tectonics shifting on Kirby. McNair is not going to reveal his hand, but as Texans fans from the beginning, we can sense it. It's in the air, on the wire, and unless they do something squirrelly like win the next 7 games, BIG changes should be coming in 2014.

Kaiser Toro said:
I hope McNair's first move is to ditch him, and then the whole staff.

At a time when the head coach is unhealthy, and a FO source comes after the interim coach with defensive criticism, it shows there is little integrity or control in the FO.
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yep. In the immortal words of the late, great Frank Zappa: "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."

As shocking as the 2013 season is for us fans, I can only imagine what McNair must be thinking right now. He's probably past stage one of grief, denial and isolation. Now he's in stage two: anger. Letting this little nugget of info out is a shot across the bow of Kubiak's ship.

Now on to stage three: bargaining!
 
Double Barrel said:
It does have that 2005 feel to it...with the exception that the Texans are still making new records. Of course, it's a rather dubious one this time: first time the franchise has lost 7 games in a row.

It's obvious what needs to be done. What we are seeing with leaks like this is the first tremors of plate tectonics shifting on Kirby. McNair is not going to reveal his hand, but as Texans fans from the beginning, we can sense it. It's in the air, on the wire, and unless they do something squirrelly like win the next 7 games, BIG changes should be coming in 2014.



yep. In the immortal words of the late, great Frank Zappa: "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."

As shocking as the 2013 season is for us fans, I can only imagine what McNair must be thinking right now. He's probably past stage one of grief, denial and isolation. Now he's in stage two: anger. Letting this little nugget of info out is a shot across the bow of Kubiak's ship.

Now on to stage three: bargaining!
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My gut instinct says he's getting Sumlin . He'll make a deal with wade to stay on and help out .

I hope Bob is getting mad cause I'm mad at this waste of time and total kluster %#$%^$ not going anywhere , Bob is 25 years older than me . His window , I hope , is smaller than mine for a Super Bowl run .

The game has changed and the Shanny tree has been attacked by pine bark beetles . The NFL and it's rule changes has passed the Shanny , Kubiak way up . A good defense and a fast scoring offense is the NFL today . The coach and QBs are partners on the best teams , with the QB having the ability to run a no huddle . Kubiak and time of possession doesn't matter is you get beat by 21 .
 
Naija Texan said:
The way the power works,
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Kubiak has final say on 53 man roster, it's in his contract.

Rick Smith is to Gary Kubiak as Scott Pioli was to Bill Belichick. The way Belichick trusted Pioli do what Belichick wanted Pioli to do, Kubiak trust Rick Smith to do what Kubiak needs Smith to do. Smith's decisions have Kubiak's blessings.

It is not a mere coincidence that Rick Smith was an assistant GM with the Denver Broncos and knew exactly how Gary Kubiak wanted business conducted before he was hired by the Houston Texans.

It is not a coincidence that when Bob McNair stated that Bob Kraft was his friend and mentor. Bob also stated that he was using the Patriot model to build his team, that's when he hired Gary Kubiak to be his Bill Belichick and hired Rick Smith to be Gary Kubiak's Scott Pioli.
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
My gut instinct says he's getting Sumlin . He'll make a deal with wade to stay on and help out .

I hope Bob is getting mad cause I'm mad at this waste of time and total kluster %#$%^$ not going anywhere , Bob is 25 years older than me . His window , I hope , is smaller than mine for a Super Bowl run .

The game has changed and the Shanny tree has been attacked by pine bark beetles . The NFL and it's rule changes has passed the Shanny , Kubiak way up . A good defense and a fast scoring offense is the NFL today . The coach and QBs are partners on the best teams , with the QB having the ability to run a no huddle . Kubiak and time of possession doesn't matter is you get beat by 21 .
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I'm not a big Sumlin fan, but I'll take it. A.B.K. now.

And agree about the Shanny tree. A WCO that cannot beat a blitz is worthless. Most WCO teams invite the blitz, as it is always an opportunity for positive yardage. That blitz is leaving holes to exploit, but obviously need more than a split second of protection to allow it to happen.

And still shaking my damn head that they do not seem to have a max protection package in the playbook. If they do, then huge fail for not bothering to use it.
 
I don't see how they could be frustrated with Kubiak. He is pretty much doing the exact same things he has always done. These things have brought him unmitigated praise from the owner and a couple of contact extensions, right?
 
Runner said:
I don't see how they could be frustrated with Kubiak. He is pretty much doing the exact same things he has always done. These things have brought him unmitigated praie from the owner and a couple of contact extensions, right?
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Would you really expect the owner to be any different in his public comments?

I expect the next public comments from the owner about the head coach to be along the lines of, "We have decided to go in another direction."
 
If this is one across the bow for Gary maybe its meant as a hint more than a warning...as in we can do something for your service here, you should heed the health warnings and decide to hang it up to something less stressful. It would save face for McNair not having to fire the golden boy and everyone gets what they need.
 
After all this team and fans have ben through, I can't really se Kubiak being fired now. I wish he was gone, but I have been wishing that since about year two of his reign here. If anything, I expect McNair to give him a 5 year contract extension which would be true to form for this organization.
 
Double Barrel said:
Letting this little nugget of info out is a shot across the bow of Kubiak's ship.
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Exactly. They're saying to Kubiak: "Take ownership of these draft decisions and vet the coach input thoroughly."

Clearly, Sam Montgomery was not Kubiak's choice. He would still be on the roster for the sake of Kubiak's credibilty.
 
TEXANRED said:
you let leech go, you dont replace him
you let winston go, you dont replace him
you let brisiel go, you dont replace him
you let ryans go, you dont replce him
you let williams go, you dont replace him
you let quinn go, you dont replace him
you let barwin go, you dont replace him
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Leach is rated 22nd/23 FBs... Jones 6th/23.
Winston is rated 69th/75 Ts... Newton 71st/75.
Brisiel is rated 27th/71 Gs... Brooks 30th/71.
Ryans is rated 50th/52 ILBs... Mays+Sharpton ~30th/52.
Williams is rated 12th/38 3-4 OLBs... Mercilus is 33rd & Reed 38th/38.
Quin is rated 17th/85 Ss... Swearing 63rd, Keo 67th, Reed 74th/85.
Connor Barwin is 27th/38 3-4 OLBs... Mercilus is 33rd & Reed 38th/38.

2013 YTD by PFF, >25% team snaps
 
Double Barrel said:
I'm not a big Sumlin fan, but I'll take it. A.B.K. now.

And agree about the Shanny tree. A WCO that cannot beat a blitz is worthless. Most WCO teams invite the blitz, as it is always an opportunity for positive yardage. That blitz is leaving holes to exploit, but obviously need more than a split second of protection to allow it to happen.

And still shaking my damn head that they do not seem to have a max protection package in the playbook. If they do, then huge fail for not bothering to use it.
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What would you do from a marketing angle ?
 
Playoffs said:
Leach is rated 22nd/23 FBs... Jones 6th/23.
Winston is rated 69th/75 Ts... Newton 71st/75.
Brisiel is rated 27th/71 Gs... Brooks 30th/71.
Ryans is rated 50th/52 ILBs... Mays+Sharpton ~30th/52.
Williams is rated 12th/38 3-4 OLBs... Mercilus is 33rd & Reed 38th/38.
Quin is rated 17th/85 Ss... Swearing 63rd, Keo 67th, Reed 74th/85.
Connor Barwin is 27th/38 3-4 OLBs... Mercilus is 33rd & Reed 38th/38.

2013 YTD by PFF, >25% team snaps
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The error in this thinking is comparing former Texans to today's production. To see how quality and value has deteriorated, compare former Texans last year as a Texan to the current day production of that same position. Example don't compare Winston of today, compare Winston of 2011. That is what you're missing, not what Winston is doing in Arizona today.
 
It's amazing that the Texans FO is just now getting frustrated with Kubiak and his staff, the rest of us have been frustrated for years.
 
Wolf6151 said:
It's amazing that the Texans FO is just now getting frustrated with Kubiak and his staff, the rest of us have been frustrated for years.
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Seriously. They're just now getting "frustrated" while many of us have already crossed the desert and reached "resigned indifference" where he's concerned.
 
Texian said:
The error in this thinking is comparing former Texans to today's production. To see how quality and value has deteriorated, compare former Texans last year as a Texan to the current day production of that same position. Example don't compare Winston of today, compare Winston of 2011. That is what you're missing, not what Winston is doing in Arizona today.
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Winston of 2011 was not all that grand.

We cut him because he was overpaid. He signed with KC, and was ousted after one season. His career is coming to an end.

Cutting Winston was one thing I completely agreed with, but I thought Smithiak would address the position appropriately (aka not derek newton)
 
Rey said:
Which falls on kubiak.

"Hey, I think some of the starters get a bit worn down...let's rotate them a little more and see if that helps"

He's the head coach, not the offensive co-ordinator.
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lolol, yep... kubiak has his face stuffed so far up his play sheet he has no clue what is going on.
 
SchaubApologist said:
Winston of 2011 was not all that grand.

We cut him because he was overpaid. He signed with KC, and was ousted after one season. His career is coming to an end.

Cutting Winston was one thing I completely agreed with, but I thought Smithiak would address the position appropriately (aka not derek newton)
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I've said repeatedly that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Winston. That's not the point. The plan for replacing him sucked. They thought they could replace a guy that started every game in his Texans career with a 7th round draft pick and/or the guy behind him that never did unseat him from the job (Butler).

The best part is you see it at lots of positions. What was their replacement plan for Ryans? Trade him away and then what? It's like the underwear gnomes episode of South Park. They haven't got that middle step down. Here's another one - they know damn good and well when Tate's contract is up, so what's their replacement plan for him? They've either painted themselves into a corner to where they have to re-sign him, or they rely on UDFAs to replace a guy they saw fit to spend a 2nd rounder on. That's cost benefit analysis at its finest. When they do have a plan, it's Ed Reed to replace Glover Quin LOL.

They always seem to draft OLBs and TEs, so they definitely have a plan there. The players may or may not pan out, but at least they seem to have a plan. Elsewhere, not so much.
 
I wish I knew who was responsible for:

Majority of our starters playing only a couple of snaps in preseason

Having player announcements as they enter training camp practices.

When I would see that on the website, I thought we would have a team with no focus this year.
 
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