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So would Schaub have scored if he had run?
- Thread starter TexansFanatic
- Start date
silvrhand
All Pro
+100000
Hervoyel
BUENO!
No, it's not. Unless you just want to take it there then I guess go right ahead. I'm fine with Matt decides to throw it away the moment he's flushed from the pocket and comes back to try again on the next play. I'm fine with Matt tries to run it in and falls short. I'm less pleased with Matt tries to throw it through Huff to Jacoby Jones who hasn't caught a ****ing thing all day (OK, one out of eleven tries he caught) obviously but damn, it's not like he couldn't see the guy standing there. That was just "put gun to temple, pull trigger" stupid.
I'm mostly upset with Matt because he took all the remaining time to decide to do the worst one of the three possible choices.
I'm unhappy with Gary because this impressive offense we supposedly have is all smoke and mirrors, stats and finesse. No meat, no potatoes. Best offensive line in the NFL my ass.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
This^ You can actually see Jacoby isn't even looking for the ball (unless h'es looking through the earhole) when Matt makes the throw. Doesn't absolve Matt, but dear me, Jacoby is possibly one of the thickest players I've ever seen.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
It's a loss either way so what the hell difference does it make? He throws a pick, or gets crushed at the 3 yard line. Then he either gets blasted for not running it, or not throwing it.
That might have been the last game on the line play, and yeah, it sucks that we don't seem to have anybody to make that play, but it wasn't what lost that football game.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Why is running it and falling short when you are Matt Schaub any more acceptable of an out-come than limply throwing an INT to the closest DB? Either way I'm coming out of that situation pissed off at Matt Schaub because both are about equal levels of bad decisionry.
If we are talking even, Aaron Rogers, or Alex Smith, or Andy Dalton or god knows how many other QB's are more mobile than Schaub I'd totally get where you are coming from. But in no way am I coming away with a better impression of Schaub if he does that than what actually went down. Both decisions are really bad for entirely yet equal reasons. I don't see where the distinction comes into play.
JWarren14
Beer Me
Looks like he had Jacoby for a second but was looking for Walter who was covered, should have thrown it way. IF he tried to run it in and failed the title would be "So would Schaub have scored if had to throw?"
Hindsight is 20/20 the offense played pretty sub-par and nobody stepped up to make a play. I am not backing Schaub on this one.
Another thing I don't understand is why you get in the shotgun and basically put yourself at the 10 yard line, with the drop Schaub was back at the 15.
Oh well another crappy day in Texans history. To answer the question though, I don't believe he would have scored if he had run.
TexansFanatic
Extremist
PERFECT! That picture is precisely what I've been hoping to analyze---thanks for posting it.
It very definitely now looks like Tywon Jones was bolting straight toward Schaub and would have crushed him well before he got near the end zone.
But it also appears Schaub had Jacoby open at that exact moment and could have hit him if he had rocketed the ball at him without hesitating.
C
Ckw
Guest
His name is Jacoby "I Can't Wipe My Own Ass Because I'll Drop The TP And Get **** All Over My Hands" Jones. Geez!
foo82
Waterboy
Looks like he had Jacoby for a second but was looking for Walter who was covered, should have thrown it way. IF he tried to run it in and failed the title would be "So would Schaub have scored if had to throw?"
Hindsight is 20/20 the offense played pretty sub-par and nobody stepped up to make a play. I am not backing Schaub on this one.
Another thing I don't understand is why you get in the shotgun and basically put yourself at the 10 yard line, with the drop Schaub was back at the 15.
Oh well another crappy day in Texans history. To answer the question though, I don't believe he would have scored if he had run.
Probably not, but I would have liked to see him try to make an attempt at the end zone. If a defensive lineman can chase you down...you aren't going to make it very far past the line of scrimmage. I thought these guys were athletes and it's very strange to see someone running so awkwardly.
panamamyers
Waterboy
The main thing to note from that picture is the 4 seconds remaining on the clock, even after he danced around to the left for a while. Just rocket the ball at Daniels feet and play another down with 2 seconds remaining.
Giant Tiger
Veteran
Was anybody covering Dreessen?
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Looks like he had Jacoby for a second but was looking for Walter who was covered, should have thrown it way. IF he tried to run it in and failed the title would be "So would Schaub have scored if had to throw?"
Hindsight is 20/20 the offense played pretty sub-par and nobody stepped up to make a play. I am not backing Schaub on this one.
Another thing I don't understand is why you get in the shotgun and basically put yourself at the 10 yard line, with the drop Schaub was back at the 15.
Oh well another crappy day in Texans history. To answer the question though, I don't believe he would have scored if he had run.
lookin at the pick another option was he could have ran east towards #93 thats a DT and i doubt he runs that fast plus look at the reff surley he would of got in his way plus when in danger i would have ran towards thoes two O linemen they could have helped matt run in
I accidentally saw the replay of the play while at lunch today as I glanced at the screen in the restaurant. I was hoping not to witness it again.
I have 3 points to make now.
1. Schaub would not have made it running.
2. Jacoby Jones did not make a good effort to get open.
3. Schaub is still to blame because of his indecision and timidness.
*Also, Vickers sucks.
I have 3 points to make now.
1. Schaub would not have made it running.
2. Jacoby Jones did not make a good effort to get open.
3. Schaub is still to blame because of his indecision and timidness.
*Also, Vickers sucks.
TexansFanatic
Extremist
Can't tell from that picture, sure looks like he's all alone, but....
It's a trip to look at a frozen moment in time like that and try to put yourself inside it.
I think I would have scored. :-0
80tothezone
Veteran
yeh if OD had cut back right as schaub broke from the pocket he probably would have been open, but a little miscommunication had Od blocking which left the safety open to tackle. they played great D on that play schaub might have made it if he had run it 2 sec before he threw it while he had the safety and Dt trailing him but it woulda been close cause schaub is slower than christmas. as is was though no real high probability options he took a shot and lost can't be too mad at him for his play seeing as the OL took a personal day
80tothezone
Veteran
Can't tell from that picture, sure looks like he's all alone, but....
It's a trip to look at a frozen moment in time like that and try to put yourself inside it.
I think I would have scored. :-0
there waz like 7raiders over there. so no probably not
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
TexansFanatic
Extremist
Not sure if you're talking about the defenders near Dreessen.
There are 8 Raiders visible in the picture. Obviously there can be only 3 out of the picture.
JWarren14
Beer Me
Dressen was bumped off the line & covered by #34 and Foster was covered in the flat on the opposite side by #55.
The throw itself was almost a pitch more than a throw.
Tommy Kelly gave Jacoby an earfull after the play, stood right in his ear and you could tell he was screaming something...wonder what he was saying?
The throw itself was almost a pitch more than a throw.
Tommy Kelly gave Jacoby an earfull after the play, stood right in his ear and you could tell he was screaming something...wonder what he was saying?
80tothezone
Veteran
i didn't really look at the picture just watched the play like 20 times. it looked like the backside was covered
Wolf
100% Texan
Foster probably the only Texan that would have the agility/vision/speed to make the DB miss, Schaub not so much
thanks to Andy
picture looks like DB was past the goal line already..schaub looks to be at about the 5
to me, I don't understand how anyone can say schaub would make it .. DB is running toward him..Schaub is running east and west along the goal line and with his "agility" no way he makes the DB miss
thanks to Andy
picture looks like DB was past the goal line already..schaub looks to be at about the 5
to me, I don't understand how anyone can say schaub would make it .. DB is running toward him..Schaub is running east and west along the goal line and with his "agility" no way he makes the DB miss
TexansFanatic
Extremist
Raiders did a great job on that play. They blew up the pocket, flushed Schaub in the wrong direction, covered every receiver, and kept him from running it in.
Schaub f'ed up by not throwing the ball away immediately and taking another stab at it with a fresh play.
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
And there you have it.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
You can't expect him to know if there's 3 seconds left or 0. Nobody wants to throw the ball away in that situation and find out it's game over. God, I can hear the griping now!
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Yes, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Matt Schaub is not Jesus Christ in Texans gear.
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
The way some Texan fans bytch and cry about Schaub you'd think he was another JaMarcus Russell. Trust me, as a Raider fan I can tell you that Schaub isn't a bad QB and gets a bad rap for all that ails the Texans. No, he is no Kenny Stabler, but he also isn't JaMarcus; and I'd say he is certainly better than Jason Campbell.
I guess what I'm saying is that things could be worse, and if Schaub were to get kicked to the curb they probably will get worse before they get better at the QB position.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
That's odd as I've been assured by several posters on this very board that ANY QB is better than Schaub. I was starting to believe them until you posted this, now I'm back to feeling confused
Goatcheese
Texan
Just saw these and couldn't help but say "JJ! 
" Why would you retreat when you have Huff stuck behind and nothing but green grass ahead?
" Why would you retreat when you have Huff stuck behind and nothing but green grass ahead?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
If Jones had any snap he would have posted his defender up like in basketball. Shield him from the inside of the end zone...but Jones doesn't have much snap.
Just saw these and couldn't help but say "JJ!
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
Just saw these and couldn't help but say "JJ!
That is what I've tried before with this post:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1798459#poststop
Now, while the back of the end zone was clear for JJ, Schaub threw as if JJ would keep coming across, knowing that Branch just left that area to stop Schaub from running it in. The QB and WR were definitely NOT on the same page when the play broke down. JJ was the only Texan open, and he broke the wrong way. Of course, the Raiders
deserves much credit for their play.Just saw these and couldn't help but say "JJ!
This pic assumes that JJ would catch the ball. UNLIKELY!
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well if he caught that pass in the end zone, it would have made up for the other 9 he missed that day...
run-david-run
All Pro
Watch the replay. There's a safety, Branch I think, that immediately sees Schaub move forward and gives up his coverage to go after him. When Matt starts moving forward, he's at about the 7. Branch is about 2 yards into the endzone and spiriting forward. Unless Matt can run three times faster than, or truck, a DB in the open field, he's not getting anywhere near the endzone.
The problem we had is that the play had everyone going to the right (OD runs across the formation on an in, Dressen runs an out, Walter goes to the middle, Foster leaks to the right) leaving only JJ on the left, where the pressure forces Matt to scramble. That allows the other safety to pressure him without leaving anyone open. And then JJ does what he does and makes no real attempt to get open from Huff. The only way this would have succeeded is if Walter beat his man on the slant, like on the opening TD drive, but the Raiders wised up to it.
playa465
Veteran
Looks like he had Jacoby for a second but was looking for Walter who was covered, should have thrown it way. IF he tried to run it in and failed the title would be "So would Schaub have scored if had to throw?"
Hindsight is 20/20 the offense played pretty sub-par and nobody stepped up to make a play. I am not backing Schaub on this one.
Another thing I don't understand is why you get in the shotgun and basically put yourself at the 10 yard line, with the drop Schaub was back at the 15.
Oh well another crappy day in Texans history. To answer the question though, I don't believe he would have scored if he had run.
See this is what gets me, the play clearly shows Schaub's indecisiveness...everyone talks about how JJ messed up (which he arguably does later in the play), but at this moment is where Schaub should have fired the ball to him as he has the defender behind him.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Hell yeah he would've scored. A 6'-5 241lb guy against a tiny DB??? See Andre Johnson have a LB bounce off of him like the dude with Arizona!!! (see: someone whose avatar loses me right now! Sorry). I'll *EDIT* in a minute.
*EDIT*
It was my cat (and kinda who I was leaning towards) The guy to lazy too masturbate, Dutchrudder!!
*EDIT*
It was my cat (and kinda who I was leaning towards) The guy to lazy too masturbate, Dutchrudder!!
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Ok I KNOW Schaub is not athletic of fleet afoot, but does he ever scramble or roll out laterally or toward positive yardage instead of drifting backwards? I know you are trying to run away from the D, but why is it that as soon as he gets any pressure he fades backwards? Then he throws off the backfoot withour any zip or just gets pounced on like a newborn wilderbeast. After seeing the replay I am convinced that he would not have made it without making a juke or running over the DB which I doubt he wanted to do. Cokc-eyed Jones didn't help matters either.
Steal Your Face
Noob
Tyvon Branch (Raiders #33) may be smallish and a little lacking in coverage but he is a punishing and sure tackler. He is also one of the 3-5 fastest Raiders. No way in this world that Schaub outruns him to the pylon and no way Schaub runs through him into the endzone. On top of that, Tommy Kelly (Raiders #93) is approaching fast from the right and would have smothered any effort to cut back.
Bottom line here ... the Raider line surge blew up the Texan OL and flushed Schaub out of the pocket. The Raiders man-to-man coverage blanketed Texan receivers. Once the pocket was crushed and all receivers were blanketed, Raiders D went after Schaub and totally snuffed out the play. What's more, the Raiders did it with 10 defenders.
You can second guess the decisions all day but there was nothing that Schaub could have done that would have a realistic chance of a different outcome. A hard-fought game came down to the last play and the Raiders 10 men whipped the Texans 11.
Looks like he had Jacoby for a second but was looking for Walter who was covered, should have thrown it way.
Hindsight is 20/20 the offense played pretty sub-par and nobody stepped up to make a play.
- I think it's obvious he had no idea that safety was there. To make that decision to run then immediately decide not to run, you have to question what he saw pre-snap & how he accounted for that safety in his head
- At that frame in that picture, had he setup again instead of breaking to run, he had Jacoby where there is no way Jacoby could screw it up... maybe, then he'd still have time to throw it away if he didn't like it.
- To me it looked as if Walter & OD were run blocking for him... WTF were they thinking?
- Other than the five OLmen that screwed the pooch on that player, we've got two WRs, a TE, and a QB that botched the hell out of that play. I've never used the "unprepared" card against this team, but I can't see how not to use it in this situation.
- When they safety moved up, why didn't Walter head for the Pylon?
speedfreek
All Pro
negatory.
schwab gets crumpled at the 3, no where close to the endzone
TJ
schwab gets crumpled at the 3, no where close to the endzone
TJ
While hindsight is always 20/20, and sitting at our cpu's analyzing slow motion and screen shots of a 7 seconds is much easier than, you know, actually being on the field running for your life trying to win a game...
I think the one thing that disappoints me is the lack of situational awareness in our QB. I don't blame him for being slow - that has been a fact established for years - and I don't blame JJ for sucking - that has been a fact established for years - but I think the difference between an 'elite' QB and an 'average' QB is not physical talent but rather the mental fortitude to make split-second decisions under pressure.
Dude should have recognized good coverage and the play was being forced away from it's designed goal to the right, and just thrown it away immediately. Brady, Brees, Manning, Rogers, would have made that decision, which is one of the reasons why they are considered 'elite'.
I refuse to put the whole game on Schaub. They would not have been in position if not for his play, and when you see the game as a whole, there were stupid mistakes being made by many players on the team that helped seal the loss.
I think the one thing that disappoints me is the lack of situational awareness in our QB. I don't blame him for being slow - that has been a fact established for years - and I don't blame JJ for sucking - that has been a fact established for years - but I think the difference between an 'elite' QB and an 'average' QB is not physical talent but rather the mental fortitude to make split-second decisions under pressure.
Dude should have recognized good coverage and the play was being forced away from it's designed goal to the right, and just thrown it away immediately. Brady, Brees, Manning, Rogers, would have made that decision, which is one of the reasons why they are considered 'elite'.
I refuse to put the whole game on Schaub. They would not have been in position if not for his play, and when you see the game as a whole, there were stupid mistakes being made by many players on the team that helped seal the loss.
Texaninlild
Veteran
I thought I saw Owen open with the defender shielded to his backside if Matt would have seen him and thrown more quickly.