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Texans place Franchise Tag on D Rob today.

dalemurphy said:
When fans rip into players for contract negotiations, you are essentially saying that you'd rather the owners have more money. Why isn't anyone outraged that Bob McNair is squabbling over a couple million dollars when he's a billionaire. As a fan, if you have a problem with the amount of money that is in the game, then don't spend your money watching it. I quit on baseball largely because of the money. Those guys are prima donnas and I could no longer, in good conscience, support the product.

However, I just don't see reason for outrage with Dunta. Again, his only complaint, is that he was treated dishonestly. That's a reasonable complaint.
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That's not what I'm saying. Though, most of the owners did something REALLY productive to have the money. Mcnair is a businessman and creates jobs for people all over the place (but this isn't an economics discussion, we don't need to go into specific numbers or anything else) so I don't min him having money.

What I'm saying is that in times like these, when people are hurting... its foolish of someone like daunta to complain about 9 mil a year. How many people out there would complain about that? How many people really want to go cheer for someone who is upset because they are only making 5x what I'm going to make in my career instead of 10x.


Mike
 
bah007 said:
So would I.

Use it as ammo to trade up for Malcolm Jenkins this year or Eric Berry next year.

But I bet Dunta is worth a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year as maximum value.
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If this is true, then he gets no offers and that should help the negotiation with Texans. At some point he has to asks his agent, "if no one else wants me enough to offer a good deal, maybe I better sign long term here."
 
I'd take two 2nds for Dunta. He's an unknown quantity post injury and we can recoup the two 2nds we gave up for Schaub while also adding valuable depth to our team.
 
Texan JBZ said:
You all know that I'm a huge D-Rob fan. Imo, he's the heart and soul of this franchise. He should try to get as much money as he possibly can with his new contract. With that being said, I have to admit I'm a little pissed at his reaction to getting tagged. There are much better players than Dunta that have had the franchise tag slapped on them. And they all seem to react the same way about it even though they know it's perfectly legal for the front office to choose this option with them. My biggest problem is that if the Texans did offer him a contract similar to the one Gamble signed and his agent turned it down, then that's Dunta's problem, not the Texans. A contract that size for a guy who still has somewhat of an uncertain future at this point as far as his production level is more than fair. There are better ways of going about things than the way he chose. I'm preety sure that the tag was more of an insurance policy for the Texans to keep other teams away while they hammer out a long tem deal, which is smart business on their end. What it's sounding like is that Dunta doesn't want to be a Texan any longer. If that's the case then screw him. Let him go somewhere else.
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Dunta said he was upset that he was lied to....Not that he was franchised

But your post in the perfect example of why he's trying to do the best deal for his sake...Because fans and ownership (in general) only care about what Dunta can produce on the field...

Don't have a cut throat attitude when it comes to cutting ties with players and not expect them to have a cut throat attitude when it comes to the business side of things as well...

How much he's making compared to fans doesn't matter...All of you are making more than homeless people but I don't see y'all just taking what your employers give you and shutting up...

There's probably homeless people saying that they can't believe someone would complain about making $5.00 an hour...It's all relative...you only know what you know...
 
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TheRealJoker said:
I'd take two 2nds for Dunta. He's an unknown quantity post injury and we can recoup the two 2nds we gave up for Schaub while also adding valuable depth to our team.
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Hmm. Not for me I think. Team would probably be below us in draft making it a low second round that does not give you a starter. There would be no potential I believe to trade up for Jenkins and no CB late in 2nd gives you a starter.
 
badboy said:
If he is not worth a 1st this year, why all the screams about not giving him a big long term deal?

IMO he should be worth a top 25 first this year and maybe a 3rd.
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He's not worth the combination of huge money and the draft pick.

The Texans will pay their 1st round draft pick (15th pick) around $10 million of guaranteed money for 5 years.

To get Dunta, a team would have to give him about $25 million guaranteed over 5 years, plus whatever the trade compensation would be. Certainly, after the injury he sufffered, that would be a ton to risk.
 
According to latest article in chron.com, if Rick Smith really gave him a contract that would make him "one of the highest paid" at his position, then Dunta really has an inflated value of what he's worth. He's in for a shock if he starts shopping around.
 
I don't think there is any chance that the Texans trade Dunta this season. If you read what Rick said at the combine he makes it clear that they want to give Frank Bush all the help he can get in his first year on the job. Dunta is not going anywhere THIS year. I imagine we will try to fix our pass rush this offseason and if we fail to reach a long term agreement with Dunta before 2010 we will either franchise him with the specific idea of trading him or we will let him walk and target a CB early in that draft.
 
dtran04 said:
According to latest article in chron.com, if Rick Smith really gave him a contract that would make him "one of the highest paid" at his position, then Dunta really has an inflated value of what he's worth. He's in for a shock if he starts shopping around.
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Kelvin Hayden just got a 5yr $45 million deal ( he can't even play man )
Vernon Carey jus got a 6yr $42 million deal ( not bad for an average RT)
Asomugha just got $28 million guaranteed for possibly only 2 seasons


My guess is that Dunta, if he passed physicals, would probably get something like 6 yrs and $50 million with half of it guaranteed.
 
McClain is on 610 right now. He reports that the Texans definitely offered Dunta at least 23 million guaranteed but Dunta thought he deserved more. If that's true, he needs to stop smoking the stuff his agent's feeding him because he is not worth more than what Chris Gamble got just a few months ago.
 
Super Mario said:
Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.
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See post above.

Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.
 
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.
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I imagine he said no because he wants more in guaranteed money. It's almost always about that because that's the carrot they're all chasing.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I wonder if he said no more because of how the deal is structured. Maybe they've got the years/salary/gtd stuff down but maybe much of his salary is geared towards incentives?

I'd like to see an incentive laiden contract for him but that's something Dunta and his agent could be balking at.
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Mailman said:
I imagine he said no because he wants more in guaranteed money. It's almost always about that because that's the carrot they're all chasing.
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It may very well be the structure. The last year or two you have seen more deals like Jacques Reeves'. Much of his guaranteed money is the salary in the 1st two years being guaranteed. Used to be the guaranteed money was mostly signing bonus. The signing bonus gets you the guaranteed money up front while the Reeves deal sends it out as game checks.
 
I'm relieved my boy Ricky did the right thing and blew him up on his T-mobile sayin' "yo- from the heart, we're franchizin' you like a Mickey D's!"


Instead of Dunta hearing it from a reporter.

Go Texans.
 
If the Texans really offered Robinson a similar contract to what Chris Gamble got, and he turned them down... I just don't know what to say. That's atleast 25% higher than I thought the Texans would offer. If he had a brain in his head, then he would have jumped at the offer, and thanked God the Texans were dumb enough to over pay.

Somebody needs to sit D-Rob down and say "Dude, you're not that good. You're an above average cover man, who is solid against the run. That's it. You are not Aso, Deion, or even Gamble. Deflate your ego, and get a grip on reality." A good slap upside the head for good measure wouldn't hurt either.

srsly.
 
Goatcheese said:
If the Texans really offered Robinson a similar contract to what Chris Gamble got, and he turned them down... I just don't know what to say. That's atleast 25% higher than I thought the Texans would offer. If he had a brain in his head, then he would have jumped at the offer, and thanked God the Texans were dumb enough to over pay.

Somebody needs to sit D-Rob down and say "Dude, you're not that good. You're an above average cover man, who is solid against the run. That's it. You are not Aso, Deion, or even Gamble. Deflate your ego, and get a grip on reality." A good slap upside the head for good measure wouldn't hurt either.

srsly.
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Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.
 
dalemurphy said:
Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.
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Bingo.

I think we can all figure out what happened here. Dunta's agent got in his ear and filled his head with the numbers from Gamble's contract and compared those to the numbers Hayden and Asomugha got this week.

Dunta: Mr Agent guy, what would I get on the market next week?

Mr. Agent Guy: Well, Dunta, Chris Gamble got 6 years and more than 50 million with 23 mill guaranteed, but that was months ago. You were drafted in the same year and you're just as good, so you should be paid like Gamble. However, the market has changed. If that Hayden dude can get 5 yrs and 43 million with 22 guaranteed, you should get more than what they're offering you. You are better than Kelvin Hayden. Bottom line is 25 mill at least.
 
dalemurphy said:
Or, perhaps our defense will actually generate a pass rush, and he'll prove to be one of the best in the NFL. By the way, Kelvin Hayden just got a huge deal ( 5yrs $43 million/ $22.5 mil signing bonus)and he's an average CB that plays almost exclusively cover 2 with Freeney and Mathis rushing from both ends... I think his contract probably blew up the deal that was close to being signed.
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Hayden had more tackles, more INTs, and fewer yards per reception in fewer games than D-Rob in 2008. If anything, Hayden's contract should have adjusted Dunta's expectations DOWN.
 
I heard McClain also.

I'm flabbergasted. If he turned down Chris Gamble money, he either wants out of Houston, or he's a freaking moron.

I mean, yeah - there could have been parts of the contract that bothered him - but I absolutely LOVE Dunta Robinson - and even I can say he's not as good as Gamble, and doesn't deserve that kind of scratch.

Had he never gotten injured, I'd give him that in a second. But as it is - no.

Sigh. This sucks. I love Dunta.

I wonder how this would have gone down if the Hayden deal hadn't come out.
 
Goatcheese said:
Hayden had more tackles, more INTs, and fewer yards per reception in fewer games than D-Rob in 2008. If anything, Hayden's contract should have adjusted Dunta's expectations DOWN.
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He played on a much better defense... much, much better/ with a great pass rush and a system that limits the CBs deep responsibilities.
 
DiehardChris said:
I heard McClain also.

I'm flabbergasted. If he turned down Chris Gamble money, he either wants out of Houston, or he's a freaking moron.

I mean, yeah - there could have been parts of the contract that bothered him - but I absolutely LOVE Dunta Robinson - and even I can say he's not as good as Gamble, and doesn't deserve that kind of scratch.

Had he never gotten injured, I'd give him that in a second. But as it is - no.

Sigh. This sucks. I love Dunta.

I wonder how this would have gone down if the Hayden deal hadn't come out.
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Don't fret. We will probably sign him before the season. As it is, he and his agent will realize that $23million guaranteed is better than $9.75, particularly given all the uncertainty coming into play the next couple of seasons with the end of the collective bargaining agreement.

By the way, if next year is uncapped, we can retain Dunta automatically by giving him a 10% raise on his current salary. So, if he plays great, we can still keep him next year for a reasonable amount of money, even if the season is uncapped.
 
dalemurphy said:
He played on a much better defense... much, much better/ with a great pass rush and a system that limits the CBs deep responsibilities.
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The Colts had a mind boggeling 5 more sacks than the Texans. Compair that to the Cowboys who had 34 more sacks, more than doubling up on Houston.

The simple fact is, D-Rob hasn't even been playing as our Left Corner, or mirroring the other teams best receiver. Even when healthy he played on the right side, and moved to nickle, covering #3 receivers, in alot of packages. Why should we pay top 5 corner money, for a guy who plays the #2 corner position? :gun:
 
dalemurphy said:
By the way, if next year is uncapped, we can retain Dunta automatically by giving him a 10% raise on his current salary. So, if he plays great, we can still keep him next year for a reasonable amount of money, even if the season is uncapped.
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That is a good point. Unfortunately, one never knows how en ego once scorned will react once the next mental hurdle approaches.
 
I hated the idea of franchising Dunta because I don't think he's worth it.

If we did it because of his leadership value and his ability to blitz (which I think they will do in the new scheme), I could live with it because Smith knows more than me.

But for us to franchise him and then him winge about it, makes this about the unhappiest I have been as a Texans fan.
 
badboy said:
Hmm. Not for me I think. Team would probably be below us in draft making it a low second round that does not give you a starter. There would be no potential I believe to trade up for Jenkins and no CB late in 2nd gives you a starter.
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How do you know a late 2nd rounder doesn't give us a starter? The draft is a crapshoot and if what you're saying is true then David Carr and Ryan Leaf would be MUCH better than Tom Brady and Matt Cassel.

Two 2nds gives us two more chances to grab quality players. Its all about your scouting department, the same scouting department that has done a pretty solid job in the draft WITHOUT a 2nd round pick the past two years.

We just picked up Steve Slaton in the late 3rd round, but he cant start because a late 3rd DOES NOT give you a starter... Forget about pro bowl TE Owen Daniels starting, he's a 4th rounder...

So to end my rant...YES two 2nds give you not one, but TWO starters with proper scouting. Two solid starters > than one iffy starter (solid starter pre injury) with an inflated sense of self worth.
 
Would not bother me to get (2) No. 1's for Dunta. Don't want to risk another injured player with a long term contract. Dunta did not look good last year. I know he was only 80% but that may be all he will ever be again. I would not do any type of long term deal on Dunta. Let him prove himself next year.
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario
Dude, you mean what you can gather from pure speculation. You have no idea what he was offered and with what incentives. And you are speculating again that he wants more than Gamble got.
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Hoth-Boy said:
See post above.

Sounds like Dunta was offered 6 years, 23 million quarented.

And said no.
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That still doesn't tell us how the contract was structured and what incentives or clauses were in it. We still don't know why he turned it down. Did he think he was worth more than 23 million or was it because he didnt like how the contract was written? (See Mike Leach contract extention)

All I am saying is that its speculation that he thinks he is worth more than 23 million. And its speculation that he turned it down because of claus or incentive issues.
 
Well iam pretty sure we were not going to pay dunta anything above 15 million and his agent prob turned down everything so the texans had no choice
 
Super Mario said:





That still doesn't tell us how the contract was structured and what incentives or clauses were in it. We still don't know why he turned it down. Did he think he was worth more than 23 million or was it because he didnt like how the contract was written? (See Mike Leach contract extention)

All I am saying is that its speculation that he thinks he is worth more than 23 million. And its speculation that he turned it down because of claus or incentive issues.
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I may be WAY off base here - but let me pose this question:
How many teams/fans were talking up Drob like others here have been talking up other free agents?

We have discussed Peppers, Haynesworth, noted Fred Taylor and others through the years.

I have been listening hard to Sirius NFL, Sports 610 and NFL.com, plus poked around at the other teams message boards, and, I have heard barely over a whisper about picking up Drob.

Don't get me wrong, the line starts behind me when it comes to singing his praises.

I just felt a little jilted when I read/heard his comments about being disappointed about the FT.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details of the offer, if any and what went so wrong. I want him to be here and stay and retire here. He's one of the good guys!

So, could it have been that the 'under the radar' talk just wasn't good enough?

Looking forward to your thoughts :)
 
dalemurphy said:
Nobody is going to give up a 1st round pick and sign him to a huge deal. There's no chance! He hasn't proven himself post-injury on game tape. His injury is the reason we have locked him up- a team from the outside isn't going to throw guaranteed money that we aren't willing to and also give us quality draft picks.
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So are you posting that you believe Robinson is not worth the twenty-eight million guaranteed and forty-three million over all ? Inquiring minds wish to know.

There's always a chance someone will fall in love with the idea.
Go back and look at the Hershell Walker Deal. Or better yet our own deal with
Al Davis for Phillip Buchanan. I agree it's highly unlikly. But it's possible.
 
gafftop said:
I know he was only 80% but that may be all he will ever be again.
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When you think about it, he was only 40% then since he only played half a season.

I have a feeling that he won't see the field again with the Texans, they can still trade him, and not neccesarily for two 1st-rounders, thats just the buy-out rule.

I dont want grumpy players on my team, and I dont care who it is. Grumpy can destroy a team SO fast...
 
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Malloy said:
I dont want grumpy players on my team, and I dont care who it is. Grumpy can destroy a team SO fast...
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owens.jpg
 
sounds like offer was on the table & Dunta did the walking he has nobody to blame but himself & his agent. very dissapointing :texflag:
 
beerlover said:
sounds like offer was on the table & Dunta did the walking he has nobody to blame but himself & his agent. very dissapointing :texflag:
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Eh, no blame. The negotiations aren't public so you can't tell what the key terms are--how backloaded the money was, for instance.

I am guessing they are having a hard time finding value because of that injury history thing.
 
b0ng said:
Your take on it seems to have the newest information incorporated in it's view. Did you and JLR draw straws to see who was going to be on Robinson's side and who was going to be on Smith's side?
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I'm not on anyone's side. I just think it is like playing telephone--negotiations get mixed signals all the time. I've been involved with a zillion negotiations, and especially when intermediaries are involved, miscommunications can happen. I am sure that negotiations are harder when personal performance comes into play.

I don't communicate with JLR on who is going to write what, and actually, I didn't read what he wrote until you mentioned it. I think he is a little off the reservation with his take, but opinions are like noses....everyone has one and some of them smell more than others. I think he just misread Smith's presser.
 
I think I just need to learn how to word my jokes better.

I wonder if "Rick Smith is a liar" will turn into the new "Sage Rosenfels should be starting" which was "Is Mario a bust"?
 
b0ng said:
I think I just need to learn how to word my jokes better.

I wonder if "Rick Smith is a liar" will turn into the new "Sage Rosenfels should be starting" which was "Is Mario a bust"?
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Haha.

I think maybe we should run around in circles screaming "Rick Smith is a bonehead," demand he apologize and call it a day.
 
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