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WK 3: BULLS & bears

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I just don't get the warm and fuzzies with this QB class.

Will CJ Stroud be the one to end the Ohio State NFL QB curse? Sure hate to be the team that has to roll the dice.

Bryce Young is a short QB coming into a stand tall in the pocket offense.....not a good match for a RD1 QB.

Levis has the physical gifts, but so did Ryan Leaf. Levi tosses too many INT’s for my liking. Is this due to bad reads or being too cocky with his arm? Just not a RD1 QB in my book.
Valid points. Who broke the Oregon qb curse? You remember all those Miami qbs in the 80s? Kelly, Testerverde,Walsh? I know its hard to judge a player on their ability vs the lineage of failure. I have a hard time with Alabama oline and dline prospects. So I can understand the concern. I think the benefits of hitting on that qb outweighs the potential flop because of the rookie wage scale. It used to be a team killer with that bonus money, not soo much now.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
The Bengals had AJ Green and Bernard for a year when Burrow got there (after 6-10 and 2-14).
Their NFL careers basically end after that year.

Two Olinemen were even younger than Burrow; two are no longer there.

That was a young offensive line-up.

AJ was washed. Cooks is a better wr now and last year than AJ was his last 2 years in Cincy
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
My opinion, which could be wrong, is let’s get a solid crew around the next QB we draft so he doesn’t end up sacked too many times like DC or being so badly beat up that the QB needs 60+ massages like DW.
If we can get to top 15 in the running game I wouldn’t be so adamant about “no QB”

Top 15 in defense.

But if we’ve got the worst run game in the league & the worst defense you’re shooting blanks drafting QBs
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
What was their record before Jackson took over that season? Cincy was bad back to back year before they got Burrow. How you think they got Burrow in the 1st place. Do you remember who he was throwing to before Chase? Nobody said Tyler Boyd or Tee Higgins were #1 wr's. We're not even going to talk about the oline and that mess that's still a mess. You can't even evaluate Nico because Mills won't even let the play develop.
Going by records doesn’t tell you the whole story about the individual talent that the players have. Sure as a team they sucked. But individually there may be talented players.

The Bengals are examples of this. The 2013 Texans are another.

The 2022 Texans not only suck as a team but individually the players lack talent at a majority of the positions.

As I stated - the 2022 Texans are worse at the starting positions compared to the two teams you referenced and shouldn’t consider investing in a QB until fixing a large part of that deficit.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What is pro style anymore with the college game intertwined into it? You brought up Fields transferring because he couldn't beat out Fromm or am I making that up. I said Ewers couldn't beat out Stroud and hasn't played alot of football. Pro Style in college means nothing because good coaches tailor the offense around the qb. Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Hurts, Tua, none of those guys played in pro style offenses in college. Ewers hasn't played games since his junior year in high school and now he's injured.
If I believe in a guy I stck behind him and Ewers is a special talent. With this said I get where you're coming from but I believe Ewers is very special.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What foundation did Cincy have? Baltimore was bad before Jackson. You can't build everything out and then get the qb, it doesn't work that way. Let me ask you, if the Texans had better qb play despite what the defense has done, what would their record be? Just because you have the qb, doesn't mean you stop team building. Nothing trumps a qb in my opinion. You have to be right just like any other posistion, but if you get that right, it speeds up your rebuild. The oline in pass pro has been more than adequate and if the gms wouldn't have wet the bed, the running game would be better too. It should be Pierce, another runner, then Burkhead. Damn near every team has 2 runners except the Texans.
If you think a QB is a Manning level player or can win championships for you then you pick him. I dont feel that way about any QB in this draft. The Texans org has always been a pick your QB before you build your team out, Carr/Watson and where did that theory on roster building get them.

BTW, If I was Caserio I would sign RB Trey Williams off of the street. He looked pretty good in the spring league has a lot more juice than Burkhead and has NFL experience as 3rd down RB. Local guy too.
 
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OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
Oilers and Texans NFL history can easily show that their most feared teams happened when their trenches were flush with solid players. Sure, they never brought home a Lombardi, but we sure didn’t enter those seasons as fans thinking they had no chance.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Who suffered a major injury against Alabama. Nobody knows if he will be the same after he recovers.
A major injury? A shoulder sprain to his non throwing shoulder is major? Btw, he was be back in uniform for Saturdays game
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
If you think a QB is a Manning level player or can win championships for you then you pick him. I dont feel that way about any QB in this draft. The Texans org has always been a pick your QB before you build your team out, Carr/Watson and where did that theory on roster building get them.

BTW, If I was Caserio I would sign RB Trey Williams off of the street. He looked pretty good in the spring league has a lot more juice than Burkhead and has NFL experience as 3rd down RB. Local guy too.
You don't have to be Manning level to be drafted or to win a superbowl. If that were the case, nobody would get drafted in the 1st rd. You brought up Manning, who did they have before they drafted him? A top flight signal caller is an eraser. Year in and year out, the team is in the hunt and making the playoffs. You have to have one of those guys because players move on in free agency, guys get hurt, etc. The Texans before drafting Watson had decent talent, not championship level because they missed on some players and overpayed for some who wasn't playing up. Just like those teams before Watson, it was proven you can't hide avg qb play. The Texans were winning their 9 games and getting smoked in the playoffs. You can do both. If you keep drafting position players of skill players and wait until a Manning level talent is availible, chances are you're going to be just good enough to not be able to draft him.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
You don't have to be Manning level to be drafted or to win a superbowl. If that were the case, nobody would get drafted in the 1st rd. You brought up Manning, who did they have before they drafted him? A top flight signal caller is an eraser. Year in and year out, the team is in the hunt and making the playoffs. You have to have one of those guys because players move on in free agency, guys get hurt, etc. The Texans before drafting Watson had decent talent, not championship level because they missed on some players and overpayed for some who wasn't playing up. Just like those teams before Watson, it was proven you can't hide avg qb play. The Texans were winning their 9 games and getting smoked in the playoffs. You can do both. If you keep drafting position players of skill players and wait until a Manning level talent is availible, chances are you're going to be just good enough to not be able to draft him.
Just like the Texans were doing with Watson and before. If you draft your QB and can't surround him with talent then you will always be in that one and done mode.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Just like the Texans were doing with Watson and before. If you draft your QB and can't surround him with talent then you will always be in that one and done mode.
You draft a guy like Watson, the clock is ticking. You start doing things like trading away two 1st round draft picks for a one dimensional LT.

I want to know I have coaches who can coach, which I’m not convinced of yet, & I’d like to see a team functioning at the basic fundamental level before I start worrying too much about a QB.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You draft a guy like Watson, the clock is ticking. You start doing things like trading away two 1st round draft picks for a one dimensional LT.

I want to know I have coaches who can coach, which I’m not convinced of yet, & I’d like to see a team functioning at the basic fundamental level before I start worrying too much about a QB.
Nah, you don't have to trade away picks like that. They did that because the coaching staff couldn't develop players, plain and simple, especially offensive line players. They spent high picks on oline players only to see them suck, thats a coaching/pick thing. If you have a qb and your oline suck, like the Texans did, like the Bengals did, your qb can still erase some of those shortcomings. You can have a ready made team with a crappy qb and there isn't much you can do about it except do what the colts have tried and it keeps failing. Point being, the qb is probably the most important position in sports for the most part. Aside from Brady and Wilson, in the last 15 years, the sb winning qb is a 1st rd pick. Even the final 4 in most years, are 1st rd qb's. Brady,Wilson are the outliers with Foles and Brees.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Nah, you don't have to trade away picks like that. They did that because the coaching staff couldn't develop players, plain and simple, especially offensive line players. They spent high picks on oline players only to see them suck, thats a coaching/pick thing. If you have a qb and your oline suck, like the Texans did, like the Bengals did, your qb can still erase some of those shortcomings. You can have a ready made team with a crappy qb and there isn't much you can do about it except do what the colts have tried and it keeps failing. Point being, the qb is probably the most important position in sports for the most part. Aside from Brady and Wilson, in the last 15 years, the sb winning qb is a 1st rd pick. Even the final 4 in most years, are 1st rd qb's. Brady,Wilson are the outliers with Foles and Brees.
Do we know that the Texans have a coaching staff now that can develop players to go with a high draft pick QB? Enough to build a contending team around him or will they be stuck in that 7-9 win mode through his first contract? I don't think we can know that yet
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Just like the Texans were doing with Watson and before. If you draft your QB and can't surround him with talent then you will always be in that one and done mode.
They have done good these last two drafts. They have 5 picks in rounds one to three. They will be able to surround them with talent. Have you guys forgotten that regime with Watson gave away their draft picks? We didn’t have 5 draft picks in the first three rounds to bring in any talent.
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
They have done good these last two drafts. They have 5 picks in rounds one to three. They will be able to surround them talent. Have you guys forgotten that regime with Watson gave away their draft picks? We didn’t have 5 draft picks in the first three rounds to bring in any talent.
KC did the same thing and was able to build a team with high end players. They gave away a 1st for Clark, same package to move up for Mahomes,and gave up picks for Orlando Brown. What's the difference? They will draft a guy in the 3rd and 4th rd with some issues in college and the Texans generally don't. Steelbtexan calls Texans worthy to paraphrase. Just this past draft, there were issues about Pickens. He is exactly what the Texans needed as an outside wr, but they draft Metchie coming off an injury who is basically a slot guy. Those are examples of having less talent pool to choose from that doesn't really help your team. It happened with Justin Houston vs Brooks Reed , it happened with Marcus Peters vs Kevin Johnson. I could go ,but it doesn't really matter I guess.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Do we know that the Texans have a coaching staff now that can develop players to go with a high draft pick QB? Enough to build a contending team around him or will they be stuck in that 7-9 win mode through his first contract? I don't think we can know that yet
Great question. If they cant answer it, everyone needs to be fired.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Nah, you don't have to trade away picks like that. They did that because the coaching staff couldn't develop players, plain and simple, especially offensive line players. They spent high picks on oline players only to see them suck, thats a coaching/pick thing. If you have a qb and your oline suck, like the Texans did, like the Bengals did, your qb can still erase some of those shortcomings. You can have a ready made team with a crappy qb and there isn't much you can do about it except do what the colts have tried and it keeps failing. Point being, the qb is probably the most important position in sports for the most part. Aside from Brady and Wilson, in the last 15 years, the sb winning qb is a 1st rd pick. Even the final 4 in most years, are 1st rd qb's. Brady,Wilson are the outliers with Foles and Brees.
Or make SB's with crappy QB's like Jimmy G.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Nah, you don't have to trade away picks like that. They did that because the coaching staff couldn't develop players, plain and simple, especially offensive line players
This is exactly what I said. I’m not sure our coaches are competent. Is there one part of this team that is on the right track.

We’re trailing in almost every category, almost every stat. My opinion, if I’m building a team I want stability from the QB position. A pocket passer that works inside an offensive system so every other offensive position learns how they’re supposed to play.

after you’ve established a system, an identity, then you can add one of these “new” QBs who run into sacks more than not.

A hundred ways to build a team. This is the way I would do it.
You can have a ready made team with a crappy qb and there isn't much you can do about it except do what the colts have tried and it keeps failing.
I agree. Texans were the same way for a while. Colts should have bit the bullet & drafted a 1st rd QB two years ago. Now, it’s up to the GM & coaches to keep it together until they find their QB. That’s where Rick & BO’b failed because BO’b couldn’t build an offense.
Point being, the qb is probably the most important position in sports for the most part.
Who is arguing that? I’m just saying we’re going to ruin his career if we don’t get these other issues fixed.
Even the final 4 in most years, are 1st rd qb's. Brady,Wilson are the outliers with Foles and Brees.
How many 1st round QBs failed in that time?

Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold, bad teams ruined those guys
 

wildroot

Rookie
@Texansballer74, don't take the bait on such a ridiculous take. That's like saying any good QB should never lose a game because they should match TD to TD. It's so ridiculous and such a weak troll attempt, it doesn't need a response.
Look, I shouldn't have said anything, we shouldn't even be talking about that creep here. I was baited. No, I did not mean he should have won EVERY game, but 4-12????? There were some good players on that team. Texans went 4-12/4-13 whatever it was last year with a career retread and Mills with Culley leading the team and really no one to speak of on the team. No way Watson didn't have better players, a better coach than what Mills had and the record was the same. I don't get the intrigue in Watson. He never did anything here in the time he was on the team...we sucked! Glad he's gone, good ridance!
No reason to mention him again, he's on another team now.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Look, I shouldn't have said anything, we shouldn't even be talking about that creep here. I was baited. No, I did not mean he should have won EVERY game, but 4-12????? There were some good players on that team. Texans went 4-12/4-13 whatever it was last year with a career retread and Mills with Culley leading the team and really no one to speak of on the team. No way Watson didn't have better players, a better coach than what Mills had and the record was the same. I don't get the intrigue in Watson. He never did anything here in the time he was on the team...we sucked! Glad he's gone, good ridance!
No reason to mention him again, he's on another team now.
Before I get blasted. Whenever I reference Watson. It's about his on-field play before we found out he was a creep. I've never met the guy, had no idea of his lifestyle. So, my only impressions were his public persona, what he did on game day and how he could help my favorite NFL team win a Super Bowl. After the allegations surfaced, I don't want anything to do with the guy and glad he is not on my favorite NFL team.

Believe it or not. I agree with parts of your post. My point is the 2020 defense was historically bad. You are still comparing 4-12/4-13 between the 2020 and 2021 squads without acknowledging the 2020 defense was historically bad and cost the team multiple wins. As bad as the 2021/2022 defense was/is, if the 2020 defense performed at the same level as Lovie's defense with generating TOs, providing good field position for the offense, the 2020 squad would have won more than 4 games. It's the classic argument of giving the QB too much credit or blame and looking at the 4-12 record in 2020 comparing it to 2021 and just saying it's the same result without evaluating the root causes or issues that led to the 4-12 record in 2020. No QB could have overcome the performance of the 2020 defense or the coaching staff that BOB assembled.

I agree that Watson is on another team and doesn't deserve mentioning. However, I'm a bit annoyed that we have spent years watching bad QB play and we are back to where we were before we found out Watson was a creep. I feel like while we wait to see if Mills can become a franchise QB, we are back to watching bad QB play, making excuses and it rubs me as being hypocritical. This forum was so consumed by a vocal minority nitpicking and criticizing a young QB that it divided this forum and at times made this forum unreadable.

Now we are realizing that the OL is an issue, LBs are an issue, play calling is an issue, run defense is an issue, WR depth is an issue, coaching can be an issue and overall talent is an issue. Well, no s**t, sherlock. Some of us have been posting this for years and too many posters would not listen. That's my point. There is a hypocrisy that is now permeating this forum that if aliens would visit and review posts from 2017 to 2020 and then compare the posts from 2021 to 2022, they would swear certain posters were abducted. So, nothing personal directed at you. Just directed at the previous lack of context, understanding and obtuseness that now leads to what I consider hypocrisy by posters on this great forum.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Before I get blasted. Whenever I reference Watson. It's about his on-field play before we found out he was a creep. I've never met the guy, had no idea of his lifestyle. So, my only impressions were his public persona, what he did on game day and how he could help my favorite NFL team win a Super Bowl. After the allegations surfaced, I don't want anything to do with the guy and glad he is not on my favorite NFL team.

Believe it or not. I agree with parts of your post. My point is the 2020 defense was historically bad. You are still comparing 4-12/4-13 between the 2020 and 2021 squads without acknowledging the 2020 defense was historically bad and cost the team multiple wins. As bad as the 2021/2022 defense was/is, if the 2020 defense performed at the same level as Lovie's defense with generating TOs, providing good field position for the offense, the 2020 squad would have won more than 4 games. It's the classic argument of giving the QB too much credit or blame and looking at the 4-12 record in 2020 comparing it to 2021 and just saying it's the same result without evaluating the root causes or issues that led to the 4-12 record in 2020. No QB could have overcome the performance of the 2020 defense or the coaching staff that BOB assembled.

I agree that Watson is on another team and doesn't deserve mentioning. However, I'm a bit annoyed that we have spent years watching bad QB play and we are back to where we were before we found out Watson was a creep. I feel like while we wait to see if Mills can become a franchise QB, we are back to watching bad QB play, making excuses and it rubs me as being hypocritical. This forum was so consumed by a vocal minority nitpicking and criticizing a young QB that it divided this forum and at times made this forum unreadable.

Now we are realizing that the OL is an issue, LBs are an issue, play calling is an issue, run defense is an issue, WR depth is an issue, coaching can be an issue and overall talent is an issue. Well, no s**t, sherlock. Some of us have been posting this for years and too many posters would not listen. That's my point. There is a hypocrisy that is now permeating this forum that if aliens would visit and review posts from 2017 to 2020 and then compare the posts from 2021 to 2022, they would swear certain posters were abducted. So, nothing personal directed at you. Just directed at the previous lack of context, understanding and obtuseness that now leads to what I consider hypocrisy by posters on this great forum.
4 wins are 4 wins and the rest are excuses. Funny thing is that I said the Texans would win as many games without Derrick as they won with him. Why? Because I know selfishness when I see it.

Was Culley a better coach than BOB? Is Lovie for that matter? I didn't say GM.

The OL is actually playing pretty well this yr but the skill position players aren't nearly as good as when Derrick was here.

Yes the last BOB defense was terrible. Almost as bad as a defense that gave up 250 yds LAST SUNDAY and is giving up 50 more yds per game rushing than the next to last place team. It's actually quite unbelievable that the games have been as close as they've been.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
4 wins are 4 wins and the rest are excuses. Funny thing is that I said the Texans would win as many games without Derrick as they won with him. Why? Because I know selfishness when I see it.

Was Culley a better coach than BOB? Is Lovie for that matter? I didn't say GM.

The OL is actually playing pretty well this yr but the skill position players aren't nearly as good as when Derrick was here.

Yes the last BOB defense was terrible. Almost as bad as a defense that gave up 250 yds LAST SUNDAY and is giving up 50 more yds per game rushing than the next to last place team. It's actually quite unbelievable that the games have been as close as they've been.
Other than 2 years of Kubiak led Schaub years and 2 years of OB led Watson years, the Texans have sucked! They didn't suck any more with Watson than they have at any other time
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Other than 2 years of Kubiak led Schaub years and 2 years of OB led Watson years, the Texans have sucked! They didn't suck any more with Watson than they have at any other time
I've never felt this team was building for a brighter future either while they were sucking.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The OL is actually playing pretty well this yr
I'm seeing steady improvement. I hope Saturday we'll see Pierce get to the 2nd level untouched & some down field blocking (by WRs).

the skill position players aren't nearly as good as when Derrick was here.
I think it's a wash. Well, Cooks is a step down from Hopkins. & we don't have Will Fuller for his 10 games. But Chris Moore is coming on. He'll never be a star, Mills may not either. But if they can find a way to play as a team, if Pep can scheme them into good situations, they might win some games.
 

wildroot

Rookie
I feel like while we wait to see if Mills can become a franchise QB, we are back to watching bad QB play, making excuses and it rubs me as being hypocritical. This forum was so consumed by a vocal minority nitpicking and criticizing a young QB that it divided this forum and at times made this forum unreadable.

Now we are realizing that the OL is an issue, LBs are an issue, play calling is an issue, run defense is an issue, WR depth is an issue, coaching can be an issue and overall talent is an issue. Well, no s**t, sherlock. Some of us have been posting this for years and too many posters would not listen. That's my point. There is a hypocrisy that is now permeating this forum that if aliens would visit and review posts from 2017 to 2020 and then compare the posts from 2021 to 2022, they would swear certain posters were abducted. So, nothing personal directed at you. Just directed at the previous lack of context, understanding and obtuseness that now leads to what I consider hypocrisy by posters on this great forum.
So I'm all about giving Mills 2 1/2 years to show he can become the QB of the future for this franchise, he should be able to show in that time more than flashes of good play and reach a level of play in the vien of Josh Allen, if not quite then at least show a consistent level of winning play that we can depend on week in and week out. At the same time we need to build this team over the next 2 drafts so whoever is playing QB in 2024 will have a team ready to go deep into the playoff and farther.
Anderson as our top pick would be a nice addition to the D, add a LB at our Cleveland pick and maybe another RB in the 2nd rd. and another reciever in the 3rd. That would be a nice continuation of the rebuild.
But If we're seeing the same Mills in mid-season 2023, then it may be time to move on. But at least he was given a fair shot.
Could be there's a plan to tank these 4th quarters...hell, who know with this team.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So I'm all about giving Mills 2 1/2 years to show he can become the QB of the future for this franchise
I'm not even there.

Couldn't care less if he is or isn't the QB for the future. Until he starts throwing games away, he is the QB for now. The QB that will allow us to build a team that can do the things they need to be able to do apart from the QB. Run the ball. Protect the QB. Get open, catch the ball. Stop the run, rush the passer, defend the pass.

If there's a QB I love in the next draft, I'll take him. If not, I'll pass.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm seeing steady improvement. I hope Saturday we'll see Pierce get to the 2nd level untouched & some down field blocking (by WRs).


I think it's a wash. Well, Cooks is a step down from Hopkins. & we don't have Will Fuller for his 10 games. But Chris Moore is coming on. He'll never be a star, Mills may not either. But if they can find a way to play as a team, if Pep can scheme them into good situations, they might win some games.
You just explained why the skill position players aren't as good. WFV=Cooks if healthy. Hopkins> Collins by a huge margin. Most of all the TE's still suck. Probably they are worse off now. RB's were better then not only because a rookie will be making his 3rd start, but because there's absolutely no depth.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
You just explained why the skill position players aren't as good. WFV=Cooks if healthy. Hopkins> Collins by a huge margin. Most of all the TE's still suck. Probably they are worse off now. RB's were better then not only because a rookie will be making his 3rd start, but because there's absolutely no depth.
If something happens to Damien Pierce then the Texans will have no running game at all. None. Which means nothing else is going to work on the offense anyways. As if it does now. LOL
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If something happens to Damien Pierce then the Texans will have no running game at all. None. Which means nothing else is going to work on the offense anyways. As if it does now. LOL
Why did you have to say it.

I'm sure we were all thinking it.

Much better to talk about what Burkhead is not & cannot do, than to talk about that what if we hope doesn't happen.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Why did you have to say it.

I'm sure we were all thinking it.

Much better to talk about what Burkhead is not & cannot do, than to talk about that what if we hope doesn't happen.
You're right, but this team has been so bad for such a long time, it's like nothing changes. I'm hoping Caserio changes things in the right direction, and so far he's certainly doing better than our past GMs. As to Lovie, he's probably temporary. Mills, who knows?
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Look, I shouldn't have said anything, we shouldn't even be talking about that creep here. I was baited. No, I did not mean he should have won EVERY game, but 4-12????? There were some good players on that team. Texans went 4-12/4-13 whatever it was last year with a career retread and Mills with Culley leading the team and really no one to speak of on the team. No way Watson didn't have better players, a better coach than what Mills had and the record was the same. I don't get the intrigue in Watson. He never did anything here in the time he was on the team...we sucked! Glad he's gone, good ridance!
No reason to mention him again, he's on another team now.
It wasn’t because of him is the freaking point.
 


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