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Will 2020 be the year the training wheels finally come off Tim Kelly?

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I don't care how many points we score. I'd like to outscore the opponent. But I will call for Kelly's head if we're not doing that. I'll call it stank if it stinks.

& if the only screen we run is that WR bubblescreen I will call Kelly the new Godsey, a puppet, a scapegoat.


And if it does stank O’Brien will quickly resume OC duties. He’s done it before. Lol
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
In regards to scoring in the first quarter, the team hasn't been that bad since DW4 has come on board.
What was the gawd awful stat on the Texans....they hadn't scored a first possession TD in how many games?? In comes QB2 and takes em down the field for a TD last game of the season. First possession TD's are huge, need more of them next year.
 

281Texan

Waterboy
other coaching structure news:


Kelly, who has coached for O’Brien since he was a graduate assistant at Penn State, also will coach the team’s quarterbacks.

T.J. Yates will serve as assistant quarterbacks coach, while Carl Smith, the quarterbacks coach last year, will become an offensive consultant.
Why is a former D2 Defensive Lineman coaching the QB’s lol. What could he possibly bring to the table. Maybe Andre Johnson should coach the D Line, Cushing the Running Backs, and next time I need my car worked on I’ll be sure to bring it to a plumber
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Why is a former D2 Defensive Lineman coaching the QB’s lol. What could he possibly bring to the table. Maybe Andre Johnson should coach the D Line, Cushing the Running Backs, and next time I need my car worked on I’ll be sure to bring it to a plumber


Bill O’Brien said he’s a very smart guy. Lol
 
Why is a former D2 Defensive Lineman coaching the QB’s lol. What could he possibly bring to the table. Maybe Andre Johnson should coach the D Line, Cushing the Running Backs, and next time I need my car worked on I’ll be sure to bring it to a plumber
Considering that Belichick played center and TE yet went on to become a defense guru yeah the position you play may not mean thats all you know or can learn. Only thing close to coaching what he played was 1 year as receivers coach.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Why is a former D2 Defensive Lineman coaching the QB’s lol. What could he possibly bring to the table. Maybe Andre Johnson should coach the D Line, Cushing the Running Backs, and next time I need my car worked on I’ll be sure to bring it to a plumber
Yep,

Kelly helped work with DW4 last yr along with Smith.

Maybe that's why DW4 was so bad in the last 5 games of the season.

I bet Yates will be helping out alot.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Yep,

Kelly helped work with DW4 last yr along with Smith.

Maybe that's why DW4 was so bad in the last 5 games of the season.

I bet Yates will be helping out alot.
Watson looked bad because they are overwhelming the OFFENSE with information and all these guys are thinking instead of reacting. Hopefully a more efficient and consistent offense will help EVERYONE
 

Mangler

All Pro
Watson looked bad because they are overwhelming the OFFENSE with information and all these guys are thinking instead of reacting. Hopefully a more efficient and consistent offense will help EVERYONE
I doubt O’Brien scraps his scheme/system for something different.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why is a former D2 Defensive Lineman coaching the QB’s lol. What could he possibly bring to the table. Maybe Andre Johnson should coach the D Line, Cushing the Running Backs, and next time I need my car worked on I’ll be sure to bring it to a plumber
Yeah... wtf... it'd be like Bill O'Brien (DLine @ Brown) coaching Tom Brady (GOAT).
 

KarlK

Waterboy
Watson looked bad because they are overwhelming the OFFENSE with information and all these guys are thinking instead of reacting. Hopefully a more efficient and consistent offense will help EVERYONE
Kelly was OC last year and will be again this year. Why would the offense be less overwhelming?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Watson looked bad because they are overwhelming the OFFENSE with information and all these guys are thinking instead of reacting. Hopefully a more efficient and consistent offense will help EVERYONE
Or maybe they need to get players with a better ability to learn/comprehend. This ain't rocket science we're talking about. After all this is their jobs. Being the best you possibly can be requires trying to learn everything possible you can about your job.

See I didn't use the S word. But it's not just DW4 the receivers gotta learn too. It's not like they don't have enough time. Maybe I just expect too much out of people because I expect them to learn their jobs and try to be as good as possible at their jobs.

Why are the Pats able to learn their jobs and the Texans aren't would be a better question.
 
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amazing80

Fire Billy O
Or maybe they need to get players with a better ability to learn/comprehend. This ain't rocket science we're talking about. After all this is their jobs. Being the best you possibly can be requires trying to learn everything possible you can about your job.

See I didn't use the S word. But it's not just DW4 the receivers gotta learn too. It's not like they don't have enough time. Maybe I just expect too much out of people because I expect them to learn their jobs and try to be as good as possible at their jobs.

Why are the Pats able to learn their jobs and the Texans aren't would be a better question.
The better question is why do people on this site think our system is anything close to the Pats? The only similar thing is they both use the term game plan offense. But that’s it
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The better question is why do people on this site think our system is anything close to the Pats? The only similar thing is they both use the term game plan offense. But that’s it
That "term" encompass alot of similarities in terms of how the gameplan is prepped, taught and new players are integrated into it on a week to week and season basis. & to my knowledge, NE & us are the only teams that run the EP and have a "gameplan" offense. So what makes you think its just a term?

Just b/c the execution, play calling and plays aren't exactly the same doesn't mean the systems aren't similar.

There's a reason all these different iterations of the WCO being ran by multiple coaches are lumped in together despite the different types of looks and plays within them...That's b/c the frameworks are virtually the same.
 
That "term" encompass alot of similarities in terms of how the gameplan is prepped, taught and new players are integrated into it on a week to week and season basis. & to my knowledge, NE & us are the only teams that run the EP and have a "gameplan" offense. So what makes you think its just a term?

Just b/c the execution, play calling and plays aren't exactly the same doesn't mean the systems aren't similar.

There's a reason all these different iterations of the WCO being ran by multiple coaches are lumped in together despite the different types of looks and plays within them...That's b/c the frameworks are virtually the same.
Or in layman terms, what makes a car a car. Generally its four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel. Some cars may be built for speed, some for gas mileage and some just for looks but they are all considered to be cars. Just because we are driving a Honda civic and NE has been driving a Ferrari doesn't mean they're not both cars. Though just like how when you see a cop has pulled over that Ferrari it kind of makes my little heart smile to see the wheels seem to be falling off that car. Now if only Dallas could keep their Ford POS in the shop like they have the last 10 years all would be right in the football world.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Im really surprised OBrien let go of play calling without too much coach speak - sounds like he's really going to get out of the way. Here's where the Anti Everything OBrien in me says "whats the difference its still the same BS system BLAHHH" but what Im really feeling is relief. The totem of accountability is being shared finally and its what good organizations do - DELEGATE. We'll see if Kelly has the creative juices flowing, the timing and feel for the flow of whats unfolding in front of him - hell of a leap for him in a short amount of time, but its a start --- after all we'll only go as far as #4 takes us anyway! :kitten:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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The better question is why do people on this site think our system is anything close to the Pats? The only similar thing is they both use the term game plan offense. But that’s it
The reason for this is because some of the guys are having trouble grasping the offense. Gotta draft/sign smarter guys
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't think its a smarts issue. I think they all have the smarts. Its a combo of coaching, talent and chemistry.

As coaches, you have to have an idea of how to best teach your system and how to break the components down by position and group to be taught by your assistants.
As a player you gotta be able to convey to your coach how you best learn & what you need from your coach to learn.
And as a Qb the medium between both alot of times, you have to be able to trust that your coaches are teaching the system in such a way that everyone is on the same page so that your skill guys see the same things you see when they're out there.

Its why HC's prefer vets over rookies, Its why guys often say that they like to be coached "hard"..... its why you see qbs very often having timing & sync issues at the beginnings of seasons.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Out of curiosity, what are the expectations for the offense under Kelly in his first year? What does success look like?
 

Earl34

All Pro
You sure put alot into this, and I agree to a point, but better coaching would overcome most of that
Exactly. On multiple occasions, Wade Phillips has been able to join a team, spend an offseason with a previously under performing defense and within one season make them respectable. Did the players suddenly became smart or is it because Wade has a system and a method of teaching that system to his players? Why did Coutee play so much better when former Red Raider and godfather of Patriots' slot WRs, Wes Welker was on the staff?

How many times have the Texans started the season with the defense playing terrible. After 2 or 3 games, Crennel says we have to simplify things. Maybe we should listen when O'Brien says, "we have to coach it better".
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Gotta learn to choose your words wisely.
Those are Ron White's words.

Why do you have an issue with them? The post I responded to said they were having issues learning the offense. Why do you think this is, especially when it's all they have to do, particularly when it's the most important part of their jobs?

What would you call them? Mentally challenged?
 

banned1976

All Pro
This conversation is stupid.

Soooo, back to my question up-thread about the subject of this thread. Do any of you have any predetermined expectations of the offense under Tim Kelly? Top 10 offense in PPG?
 

steelbtexan

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This conversation is stupid.

Soooo, back to my question up-thread about the subject of this thread. Do any of you have any predetermined expectations of the offense under Tim Kelly? Top 10 offense in PPG?
Tell me that DW4 will improve alot over what we saw the last 5 games and I would say a top 10 offense. Let DW4 play like he did the last 5 games of the season and I would say a 25th ish ranked offense.

Also can players learn the offense better under Kelly than they did under BOB?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Those are Ron White's words.

Why do you have an issue with them? The post I responded to said they were having issues learning the offense. Why do you think this is, especially when it's all they have to do, particularly when it's the most important part of their jobs?

What would you call them? Mentally challenged?

No I would not call them non of that silly stuff. You don’t make it to that level being stupid. And dude that’s you wording because you call Watson that. I would love seeing your smart high iq self out there. Like I been saying since day one it’s coaching.

Banned none of us know what to expect from this offense under Kelly. He really doesn’t have a sample size to go off of. Time will tell
 
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This conversation is stupid.

Soooo, back to my question up-thread about the subject of this thread. Do any of you have any predetermined expectations of the offense under Tim Kelly? Top 10 offense in PPG?
Don’t only put up 7 points while the other team puts up 51. For our new DC Weaver my expectation is don’t let the other team put up 51 points period. I’m afraid my expectations maybe to high for both.
 
No I would not call them non of that silly stuff. You don’t make it that being stupid. And dude that’s you wording because you call Watson that. I would love seeing your smart high iq self out there. Like I been saying since day one it’s coaching.

Banned none of us know what to expect from this offense under Kelly. He really doesn’t have a sample size to go off of. Time will tell
While I agree with you some very stupid people have made it into the NFL. Also some reasonably smart people became stupid once there. Antonio Brown I’m looking in your direction.
 

steelbtexan

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No I would not call them non of that silly stuff. You don’t make it that being stupid. And dude that’s you wording because you call Watson that. I would love seeing your smart high iq self out there. Like I been saying since day one it’s coaching.

Banned none of us know what to expect from this offense under Kelly. He really doesn’t have a sample size to go off of. Time will tell
I'm not referring to DW4 in that post.

I'm referring to the players on offense as a whole compared to the players that are/were on the Pats offense. Example: Coutee

You're right about Kelly, I've read he has a great relationship with DW4. Hopefully this relationship can help DW4 improve the learning curve because DW4/Kelly can speak the same language.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
While I agree with you some very stupid people have made it into the NFL. Also some reasonably smart people became stupid once there. Antonio Brown I’m looking in your direction.
Yes a lot of uneducated people made it. But they’re not stupid in the terms of knowing how to play their position. Yes outside of football Brown has made really childish decisions. But if he didn’t do that silly stuff no one would consider him stupid (right).
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'm not referring to DW4 in that post.

I'm referring to the players on offense as a whole compared to the players that are/were on the Pats offense. Example: Coutee

You're right about Kelly, I've read he has a great relationship with DW4. Hopefully this relationship can help DW4 improve the learning curve because DW4/Kelly can speak the same language.

Coutee would probably excel in New England. Like someone mentioned when Wes was here dude looked promising. Again it’s the coaching having a hard time delivering exactly what they want. They are tossing players in their and expecting immediate gratification. Verses bring them in slowly. That offense takes time to learn.
 
Yes a lot of uneducated people made it. But they’re not stupid in the terms of knowing how to play their position. Yes outside of football Brown has made really childish decisions. But if he didn’t do that silly stuff no one would consider him stupid (right).
Well to be fair I consider roughly 98% of the human race to be stupid so I most likely would still consider him such. Though to be fair to AB he didn’t start acting crazy till Burfict tried to commit homicide on the football field, seriously he should have been banned for life for that hit.

This does raise the deeper question of what we are defining as “intelligence” in this case. As risky as it is I’ll use Watson as an example. He clearly is very intelligent, you look at his college academics and listen to him break down a defense and that is clear. However all that is after the fact where he has had a chance to analyze and dissect things. Can that same intelligence come out when split second decisions have to be made?

Contrast that to Payton Manning, again someone that is clearly intelligent but he never struck me as the type that could just break something down as Watson does. However he had the ability to make split second decisions on reads and play changes. This can give the illusion that Manning is more intelligent than Watson when in reality it’s more of a different way of thinking.

To use a more personal example my wife freezes in an emergency situation. This is not a reflection on her intelligence it’s that rather than just acting she tries to find the right answer so she ends up doing nothing. In contrast I was always taught to just do something and figure out if it was the right answer later.

I think this is what we are seeing, a person like Manning thrives with being given lots of options while someone like Watson works best with fewer choices that might cause him to freeze up. So this isn’t a question of intelligence as much as it is the different ways people think.
 

steelbtexan

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Coutee would probably excel in New England. Like someone mentioned when Wes was here dude looked promising. Again it’s the coaching having a hard time delivering exactly what they want. They are tossing players in their and expecting immediate gratification. Verses bring them in slowly. That offense takes time to learn.
Going into yr 3 you would think Coutee would know the offense. Particularly since he's had so much more time to learn the playbook since he's been injured. How much time would you give him? It says something that a guy like Carter played over Coutee in the playoffs.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Well to be fair I consider roughly 98% of the human race to be stupid so I most likely would still consider him such. Though to be fair to AB he didn’t start acting crazy till Burfict tried to commit homicide on the football field, seriously he should have been banned for life for that hit.

This does raise the deeper question of what we are defining as “intelligence” in this case. As risky as it is I’ll use Watson as an example. He clearly is very intelligent, you look at his college academics and listen to him break down a defense and that is clear. However all that is after the fact where he has had a chance to analyze and dissect things. Can that same intelligence come out when split second decisions have to be made?

Contrast that to Payton Manning, again someone that is clearly intelligent but he never struck me as the type that could just break something down as Watson does. However he had the ability to make split second decisions on reads and play changes. This can give the illusion that Manning is more intelligent than Watson when in reality it’s more of a different way of thinking.

To use a more personal example my wife freezes in an emergency situation. This is not a reflection on her intelligence it’s that rather than just acting she tries to find the right answer so she ends up doing nothing. In contrast I was always taught to just do something and figure out if it was the right answer later.

I think this is what we are seeing, a person like Manning thrives with being given lots of options while someone like Watson works best with fewer choices that might cause him to freeze up. So this isn’t a question of intelligence as much as it is the different ways people think.

Excellent examples. I’m full aware of all of that good stuff. My thing is who are we to call these people stupid. Especially those that have never played ball on that level. I know it’s a very popular word usage. My kids tends to use that on each other whenever they’re in a sorta disagreement or mad at one another. My wife and I gets on their butts just like our parents did us. That was one of the words forbidden in my mother’s house. She didn’t play that.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Going into yr 3 you would think Coutee would know the offense. Particularly since he's had so much more time to learn the playbook since he's been injured. How much time would you give him? It says something that a guy like Carter played over Coutee in the playoffs.

Coutee was in the doghouse for several reasons. One being tardiness to practices and team meetings.


And why are you trying to knock down Carter. Are you saying he’s a scrub?
Dude should’ve been getting some burn in the slot.
 

steelbtexan

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Coutee was in the doghouse for several reasons. One being tardiness to practices and team meetings.


And why are you trying to knock down Carter. Are you saying he’s a scrub?
Dude should’ve been getting some burn in the slot.
That's exactly what I'm saying Carter shouldn't ever be on a contending team and I hope they are able to replace both of these guys with draft picks in this deep WR draft. I hope Duvernay falls to the top of the 4th and they draft him. Solves the Slot/WR/PR issues. Well worth a 4th and adds speed to the team.

Unless the offense is too hard for him to learn. LOL
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
That's exactly what I'm saying Carter shouldn't ever be on a contending team and I hope they are able to replace both of these guys with draft picks in this deep WR draft. I hope Duvernay falls to the top of the 4th and they draft him. Solves the Slot/WR/PR issues. Well worth a 4th and adds speed to the team.

Unless the offense is too hard for him to learn. LOL
That youngster is big time, he’s not falling out of the 1st round. We will have to find a steal somewhere in the later rounds.
 
“coaching” lol
To be fair even Brady has said that he learned alot while he and OB were together. Now would Brady have learned it without OB, yeah he most likley would but still. If we are going to believe the negative things players say about OB then its only fair we believe the positive as well.
 

steelbtexan

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That youngster is big time, he’s not falling out of the 1st round. We will have to find a steal somewhere in the later rounds.
Agreed about him being big time.

Because of the WR depth in this class he could go in the late 2nd but most likely in the 3rd.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
Because he wasn’t calling plays last year? I’m not saying it will be better this year or that he will be any good but he at least deserves a shot before we decide he sucks.
But it's the same system, same offense, same design.....same everything. What does it matter who's calling the plays if the scheme as a whole that's in place is overwhelming / information overload?
 

zshawn10

All Pro

Cecil Shorts III: Texans' Play-Caller Tim Kelly Will Maximize Deshaun Watson



Cecil said Kelly had a hand in the Texans’ 53-32 win at home against the Atlanta Falcons on Oct. 6, the Texans’ most impressive offensive showing of the season.

Texans players are excited about the ideas Kelly will bring to the offense and some of them have been wanting him to call plays since last season, Cecil said.

"They love this guy," Cecil told In The Loop. "His creativity, the thoughts that he brings, the ideas that he brings. They were limited last year because O’Brien didn’t let him be the full play-caller. O’Brien still had control over what was going on. But the guys, the players, the receivers, the quarterbacks, the offense, they love Tim Kelly….

"Earlier on in the year, the 50-point game against Atlanta. That was Tim Kelly. That was Tim Kelly’s hand in that week. That’s what was going on. Tim Kelly will put Deshaun in the best situation to succeed. Yes, it will still be a game plan offense because that’s what O’Brien wants. But there will be more of an identity from the offense, where (in 2019), I don’t know what the identity was. One week, they’ll look outstanding and the next week it’s like, ‘what the heck happened?’"

FULL ARTICLE
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
That youngster is big time, he’s not falling out of the 1st round. We will have to find a steal somewhere in the later rounds.

We probably would have to take him early though (57th). Doubt he will be available in the third round (90th). Depends if wr is seen as critical need by OB.

I would prefer someone who can get after the QB.

:coffee:
 

steelbtexan

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We probably would have to take him early though (57th). Doubt he will be available in the third round (90th). Depends if wr is seen as critical need by OB.

I would prefer someone who can get after the QB.

:coffee:
Since this is a deep WR draft class there's a good chance Duvernay will be there at 90. Considering all of the needs on defense would you be willing to spend 90 on him? To solve the Slot WR/KR/PR issues I think I would pick him despite needing to use resources on the defense.

In a way I hope they draft a CB in the 2nd and use FA to fill the Edge/DT/CB needs in FA.

If they were able to sign Suh/Jones in FA would you be OK with using the Rd 3-4 picks to finish out the offense. (WR/RB/OG)
 


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