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Who is left - Free Agency - Please respond

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
Thinking about it. Are there any differences between Jordan Howard and David Johnson?
Jordan Howard has hands of stone. Jordan Howard likes to run up the middle.

That's about it.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
Jordan Howard who is another former Pro Bowl, 1000 yard RB, signed with Miami for 2 years and $9 million. That was the same amount being offered to Carlos Hyde.

Thinking about it. Are there any differences between Jordan Howard and David Johnson?
Howard doesn't come with pick 2.40?
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
Seems like the exact sort of player that is needed to complete the oline. That means it isn't likely to happen. Probably would take a 4-5 year contract at 11 mill or better to get him. High, yes. Likely worth it...most likely. Personally I would throw money at him and feel good to get him. Haven't seen or heard anything regarding any sort of an injury issue.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Seems like the exact sort of player that is needed to complete the oline. That means it isn't likely to happen. Probably would take a 4-5 year contract at 11 mill or better to get him. High, yes. Likely worth it...most likely. Personally I would throw money at him and feel good to get him. Haven't seen or heard anything regarding any sort of an injury issue.
Sure would've been nice to have drafted him.

I bet they blew the 3rd rd pick the yr Wafford was in the draft.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Just cut by the Saints.


We need to sign this guy immediately, unless there is something I’m not aware of on the injury front.

This is a player that could probably add a solid win or two in 2020 IMO.
Warford has been extremely durable with his only one recurrent injury problem being his left knee, going back to 2014 and recurring most every season. His specific injury has never been formally reported. This injury though has only had him miss a handful of games since 2014. Having seen the games in which he was injured in 2014 and 2016 and now this past Dec., it is pretty evident to me that the knee injuries with their quick recoveries have all been grade I MCL tears. It should be mentioned that he was on the Injury Reports most of 2018 for his knee. But it did not seem to hinder his performance much if any. Low grade MCL injuries should not leave him with significant long-term disabilities. Late late in 2018, he also sustained a back muscle strain that he played with through the playoffs. He was held out of OTA’s last year while resting and fully rehabbing his injuries...........mostly as a vet precaution. He obviously performed well thereafter, well enough to secure his 3rd ProBowl status in 3 years.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Warford has been extremely durable with his only one recurrent injury problem being his left knee, going back to 2014 and recurring most every season. His specific injury has never been formally reported. This injury though has only had him miss a handful of games since 2014. Having seen the games in which he was injured in 2014 and 2016 and now this past Dec., it is pretty evident to me that the knee injuries with their quick recoveries have all been grade I MCL tears. It should be mentioned that he was on the Injury Reports most of 2018 for his knee. But it did not seem to hinder his performance much if any. Low grade MCL injuries should not leave him with significant long-term disabilities. Late late in 2018, he also sustained a back muscle strain that he played with through the playoffs. He was held out of OTA’s last year while resting and fully rehabbing his injuries...........mostly as a vet precaution. He obviously performed well thereafter, well enough to secure his 3rd ProBowl status in 3 years.
Info you cant get anywhere else.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Hmm...Tunsil on the left, Warford on the right and the best of the rest on the interior should make for a solid line.
I hope they can make it happen - would give us a real idea of DW4's abilities and keep him upright.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
This needs to happen.
With several others teams pursuing Warford, how aggressively should the Texans be? His N.O. contract he was released from called for him to make $12.9M. How much room do the Texans have to be aggressive?

I like this. Then I would have Fulton competing with Martin to start at OC.

To answer my own question, the Texans need to be as aggressive as their cap allows.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they want Warford they can get him by paying him what they paid him last yr. Cutting Fulton and giving a couple of mil off of the Gipson savings will land Warford. I just noticed Warford has a 7.65 mil base next yr. So cutting Fulton's 7 mil would do the trick.

An OL of Tunsil/Scharping/Martin/Warford/Howard should be extremely solid and solve the converting on 3rd and short issues running behind Warford/Howard. That's an awesome combo in the run game.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Murray, the jag nobody has heard of, even fans of the last team he was on hadn’t heard of him either, he wanted to come here. Those are the guys that want to be here, guys that were already tweaking their resumes for their new careers in real estate or used car sales. Don’t be surprised if Joe Flacco is the starting quarterback here in 2021.
The other day Kelce said, “ if you thought I cooked Lonnie Johnson in the playoffs, what do you think I did to Murray everyday in practice”.

Paraphrasing of course
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Texans still have a glaring hole at RG this season. Warford would fill that need much better than Fulton even if he's a little weaker in Run Pro. I'll take his ability to give Watson a pocket and the extra time to let the new speedsters get downfield. Texans could sign Warford and cut Fulton. I don't think Fulton would garner that much attention......Texans bring him back and sign him to a lower contract. Essentially giving Warford the starting money and Fulton backup money. This would add solid depth as well....being that Fulton could also play Center (possibly better) if Martin goes down.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
What is the cap implications of Warford RG Fulton C with Martin getting cut?

They recently resigned Martin so I guess they like what they have and possibly no saving to be had cutting him though.

Edit to add

Google seems to tell me that cutting Martin leads to dead money that is 2.25 million higher than his current cap cost this coming season, but of course going forward would open up that cap space again, meaning if we are able to eat it this season and it’s an upgrade then it’s do able.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Bears are out!!

The Saints have dropped guard Larry Warford onto the open market. The Bears have dropped their pursuit of him.
Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the Bears are not pursuing the three-time Pro Bowler.
It’s unclear whether the Bears were ever officially in on the chase for Warford. They reportedly were considering it. Regardless, they currently are not.
The Texans also have been linked to the 28-year-old Warford, a third-round pick of the Lions in 2013. Warford signed with the Saints in 2017. He started 44 of 48 regular-season games in New Orleans, with five playoff starts.
Bears are out of the Larry Warford chase originally appeared on
Pro Football Talk.

-Yahoo sports
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Signing Warford would really solidify the OL for the next 3-4 years. Cutting Fulton and getting him re-signed at a more reasonable 3-4M per season would really help the depth chart.

Starting OL
LT- Tunsil
LG- Scharping
OC- Martin
RG- Warford
RT- Howard

Locks For Depth Chart
LT- Qvale
RT- Johnson
ST- Heck (R)
OG/OC- Mancz
OC/OG- Fulton

Playing For Depth Chart
LT- Nkansah
LT- Steinmetz
RT- Murphy
OG- Woodworth

Should Be Released
OG- Kelemete
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I just reported this 2 comments above.
Thanks, I now see it...........posted my link before I got down to your post.:tiphat:
Are you sure?



I'm not saying you're wrong. Our OL had issues but "evidence" points to the sum of the whole more than any one member.
I agree. I'm not so sure that Fulton's luke warm performance last season was not in part due to playing next to Martin (who I felt was graded above what he should have gotten..........and who benefitted playing next to Fulton, and whose "mistakes" were too often credited to Fulton). I just posted the tweets for purpose of discussion presented by Starr. I would not release Fulton before seeing how he functions in a fully intact OL.........if for no other reason than depth. I would not rule out him showing better this season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Are you sure?

I'm not saying you're wrong. Our OL had issues but "evidence" points to the sum of the whole more than any one member.
Yes....yes I am. RG and C were weaknesses going into this off-season and continued to be right through the draft. Getting a veteran and 3 time Pro Bowler like Warford would certainly help Howard and solidify the right side in the process. The one question remaining would be C in my book. I'm not sold on Martin and would keep Fulton around as a safety net....even if it was on his current salary. Kelemete would go to add a little more money to the cap.

If OB would open a competition between Martin and Fulton at Center....the Texans could find themselves n a good position. Keep Fulton as starting Center and put Martin on the trade block. The team would eat a little dead money but if iit meant the OL would be that much better....it could be an excellent move.

If the Texans could cut Fulton and then re-sign him to lower deal, then that could be a good move. If the Texans didn't want to risk losing Felton....sign him to an extension now while they are in the best position to do so.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yes....yes I am. RG and C were weaknesses going into this off-season and continued to be right through the draft. Getting a veteran and 3 time Pro Bowler like Warford would certainly help Howard and solidify the right side in the process.
Did you read the tweet in CnnD's post I quoted? It says Fulton performed better than Warford last season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Did Fulton make the Pro Bowl last....the season before ....or in 2017? Fulton looked so much better at C when he had a chance to play. I'm not throwing Fulton to the curb but I'm improving the RG position.

According to CnD:

Warford had a 2019 PFF Grade: 73.1
Fulton had a 2019 PFF Grade: 52.2

Athlon Sports had Warford rated as the 19th best OG in the NFL for 2019. It wasn't split between LG and RG bit all OG's. Fulton didn't come close to cracking the rankings. They did have Martin as the #20 NFL Center for what its worth.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Did Fulton make the Pro Bowl last....the season before ....or in 2017? Fulton looked so much better at C when he had a chance to play. I'm not throwing Fulton to the curb but I'm improving the RG position.
So you’re saying it isn’t true that Fulton gave up one sack & 30 pressures compared to Warfords 3 sacks & 32 pressures?

I’m not saying it is true. I quoted that & asked you to respond in light of that. My question is, are you sure?

According to CnD:

Warford had a 2019 PFF Grade: 73.1
Fulton had a 2019 PFF Grade: 52.2
Technically according to PFF (who CnnD doesn’t completely trust). But in a way, this really gets to the crux of the matter. Is the problem the individual or the circumstance? Fulton is only the current example of coveted FA that comes to Houston that fails to live up to expectations. All the way back to Capers.

Replacing Fulton, does that address the illness or the symptom. That’s the question.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Did Fulton make the Pro Bowl last....the season before ....or in 2017? Fulton looked so much better at C when he had a chance to play. I'm not throwing Fulton to the curb but I'm improving the RG position.

According to CnD:

Warford had a 2019 PFF Grade: 73.1
Fulton had a 2019 PFF Grade: 52.2

Athlon Sports had Warford rated as the 19th best OG in the NFL for 2019. It wasn't split between LG and RG bit all OG's. Fulton didn't come close to cracking the rankings. They did have Martin as the #20 NFL Center for what its worth.
In my mind, it's not just replacing Fulton at OG with Warford, it's replacing Martin at OC with Fulton. I've always considered the OC position to be the weak link in our line. Several years ago when Martin was out and Fulton took snaps at the position, I thought his performance was superior to Martin's.

I took a look at the physical measurables for the two. Both are 6'-4", but Martin's playing weight is listed as 295 lbs, which I'm thinking is a contributing factor in him not holding position against penetration. Fulton's playing weight is listed as 321 lbs. Other little things in Fulton's favor, his arm length is 33 1/4" to Martin's 32 1/2"; and his hand size is 10 1/4" to Martin's 9 3/4".
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
In my mind, it's not just replacing Fulton at OG with Warford, it's replacing Martin at OC with Fulton. I've always considered the OC position to be the weak link in our line. Several years ago when Martin was out and Fulton took snaps at the position, I thought his performance was superior to Martin's.

I took a look at the physical measurables for the two. Both are 6'-4", but Martin's playing weight is listed as 295 lbs, which I'm thinking is a contributing factor in him not holding position against penetration. Fulton's playing weight is listed as 321 lbs. Other little things in Fulton's favor, his arm length is 33 1/4" to Martin's 32 1/2"; and his hand size is 10 1/4" to Martin's 9 3/4".
I'd be a lot happier if OB would let Fulton and Martin compete. Martin could be moved to a team that uses a true ZBS. As for Fulton, he was abused at RG when I was fortunate enough to see the games. Martin and Clark might've had something to do with Fulton's ranking.

I'd be 100% fine if the Texans went with:

LT- Tunsil
LG- Scharping
OC- Fulton
RG- Warford
RT- Howard
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I'd be a lot happier if OB would let Fulton and Martin compete. Martin could be moved to a team that uses a true ZBS. As for Fulton, he was abused at RG when I was fortunate enough to see the games. Martin and Clark might've had something to do with Fulton's ranking.

I'd be 100% fine if the Texans went with:

LT- Tunsil
LG- Scharping
OC- Fulton
RG- Warford
RT- Howard
Good point about Fulton having played part of the season flanked by Martin and Clark. The line needs to work as a cohesive unit. Fulton is not elite but as a serviceable player, maybe a tic or two above JAG, could reasonably have a sub par year under this condition.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
So you’re saying it isn’t true that Fulton gave up one sack & 30 pressures compared to Warfords 3 sacks & 32 pressures?

I’m not saying it is true. I quoted that & asked you to respond in light of that. My question is, are you sure?



Technically according to PFF (who CnnD doesn’t completely trust). But in a way, this really gets to the crux of the matter. Is the problem the individual or the circumstance? Fulton is only the current example of coveted FA that comes to Houston that fails to live up to expectations. All the way back to Capers.

Replacing Fulton, does that address the illness or the symptom. That’s the question.
Fulton+Warford (opt 1) > Martin+Warford (opt 2) > Martin+Fulton (opt 3)...Option 1 addresses the illness, option 2 and 3 addresses the symptom.
 


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