Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

[thunderkyss]

(Freeman) Upchuck & (Ponder) Puke.

For the love of god, don't even waste your time on these guys. If Case doesn't look like a Starter going forward, draft a QB and sign a older vet to help teach him the ropes.

If Case looks like he's a starter go elsewhere in the first round.

No, I don't want to waste time with Cutler or Freeman. If we go after a QB in the first I want them to be in that mold. Prototypical size, big arm, athletic enough. If either of those guys had Kubiak working with them I think their careers would have been much different.

Freeman is still young enough that we may not know who he is, or what he can be, but I didn't care for the way he handled the Buccaneer thing. Ponder can be special, I think. Our guys aren't Percy Harvin, but they're pretty good after the catch. Ponder looks perfect for the WCO.

Keep in mind, I have no idea who these QBs are coming out in the draft. If you think one of those guys can be a franchise guy (& you don't believe Case can) then you've got to take him in the first. Otherwise, I'd rather bring in a stop-gap (with potential) like Ponder & get two of the following three; OT, OG, ILB, in the first & second round.

 

[dalemurphy]

76Texan - with the scouting the have now,they're not missing qb with talent nearly as much. All those guys you list were at least 10 yrs ago which is a lifetime in the nfl. The most recent guy was tony romo who played at what eastern michigan or somewhere like that? Go look at the last 10 yrs of superbowl qbs and see where they where drafted. That is the real obejective right? Now if you want a guy to get you through a season or so, fine. The way the nfl is setup today and going forward ,your qb will have to makeup for faults in your team because of the salary cap restrictions. Its not like it used to be when you could build your team all the way up and just get a guy to manage the game. The dilfer ravens and johnson bucs wnt happen again that I can see. Look at the holes the last 5 sb qb had to overcome ie ol,rb,wr injuries and such. Unless you have a stacked team and you can win with a guy on his rookie deal,the qb is gonna have holes on the team. We've seen big ben,rodgers,and eli win sbs with avg o-line and minimum run games. That's the wrld we're in now.

Really what it boils down to is talent evaluation. If the coaches view keenum as a franchise qb,they better be right or you will get fired quickly. Same can be said of the 1st or 2nd rd qb. My thing is as I mentioned before,id rather have 2 chances at being right than 1. Dallas had aikman and drafted walsh with a 1st rd supp pick. After the wash out,they got a 1st rd pick for walsh. In sd after trading down and drafting brees with the 1st pick in the 2nd rd even with his struggless,they still drafted rivers. The turned out to be on both qbs ad should've gotten something more than the 3rd. Rd compensatory pick for brees. Qb is a commodity in this league. If case flashes enough to say he's a starter,but the team continue to struggle and the coach gm evealuate a player there as a franchise qb in the 1st rd,you can't pass him or you shouldn't pass him. Now we do know gms and coaches can talk themselves into believing the guy on the roser is the guy or the guy a the draft position is the guy. As long as your right,its not a problem. Trading a qb on a rookie deal who is performing can yield a lot. I mean pats got a 1st rd pick for matt cassell who went undrafted and green bay got a 1st for hassellback from seattle who was a 6th rd pick if I remember.

We also make a mistake when we assume a drafted QB that becomes great in one situation would also succeed in the others. Brady May never have surfaced,and certainly not as an all time great, if a set of weird circumstances don't happen. If the raiders drafted Montana, I doubt he would have looked anything like the guy bill Walsh developed. Similarly, there are guys that never reached their potential because of the situation they were in.

More than any position, there are so many factors that contribute to the development of a great QB that the first mistake often made is believing they can all be assessed or identified. Keenum'a potential ceiling is as uncertain as the next nine games. If he is part of a magical run, all of a sudden, players and coaches believe in him-even if his play is inconsistent.

Brady built his career on a mythology that existed only because of a Bledsoe injury, a snowy football game, absurd reversal on replay, and an impossible viniteri field goal. If that fumble wasn't overturned, is brady even in the league now? Does he ever get to a Super Bowl? Does his team and he, himself, ever have the confidence in him to overcome so much?

 

[76Texan]

Leebig, let's have some numbers down first.

In the last ten years (not counting 2013), there were 31 QBs drafted in the first round.
These guys were given the starting spot and littered the NFL rosters such that there were some 14 (fourteen) more of them than non-first-round starters last year, yet the number of first-round QBs that made it to the big dance amounted to roughly the same as non-first-rounders.

That also held true for the previous ten years.

Who's to say that first round QBs give a team the best chance?
On top of that, if you trade out of the first round, you can get at least a second and a third, with which you can use to draft more lower round QBs, further enhancing the chance to find the right one (especially when you can't get a sure-fire franchise QB in the first.)

For this reason, I didn't even want to spend a first on guys like RG III and VY.
These guys need to make plays with their legs to be worthy of their draft status (VY more so than RG III). There's more of an injury risk with this type of QB; and you can be out of a lot of cap space if they go down.

 

[76Texan]

Also, as you have said yourself, teams were getting good trade values for guys they drafted low and developed.
Why waste your first round draft pick when you're not really sold on them?

 

[dalemurphy]

Also, as you have said yourself, teams were getting good trade values for guys they drafted low and developed.
Why waste your first round draft pick when you're not really sold on them?

I totally agree with Leebigeztx that I do not want the Texans to ignore the QB position early in the draft by placing too much faith/trust in Keenum, even if he looks good the rest of the year.

What I would want to avoid, to your point, is a mindset that is determined to go get a QB early in the draft that is not based on sound evaluation that he is a guy worthy of the pick and the time investment. The QB position, IMO, is very different that others. Almost any other position, a team can enter the draft determined to get their highest rated player at a position and have a reason to be confident that player will at least make the team better. QBs don't work that way.

I think the reason why teams miss on QBs in the draft so often is that they have predetermined to get one- overpay for him, while they really have no idea/reason to believe the player is likely to work out, but they don't want the fan base to freak out because QB wasn't addressed, and they don't fully explore other options in FA and in trade- which may be more costly in the short term but save the team four years of headaches and wheel-spinning.

 

[leebigeztx]

Also, as you have said yourself, teams were getting good trade values for guys they drafted low and developed.
Why waste your first round draft pick when you're not really sold on them?

Its not a waste if u get it right like sd and dallas did. As I said its evaluation. Starting with the cam newton class, it looks like carolina,cincy, and 49ers were right. The jury is still out on locker and ponder,gabbert is trash. Even withbthe failures of gabbert, jax cant afford to pass bridgewater or other qbs who may be rated as a franchise qb. A team can fool themselves like parcells did and take jake long 1st and decided to get chad henne in the 2nd passing on matt ryan. Well 5 yrs later, we seenhow thats worked out.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Maybe some insight into Kubiak and what we saw with Schaub and what we may see from Case on Sunday.

(on calling plays for QB Case Keenum now that he’s seen him play in a game) “Well, I think I’m getting to know him more and more each day. Obviously, as a coach, you’ve got a big game plan and I learned from Coach (Bill) Walsh, you can give them all of the game plan you want, but it’s your job to do what they know and do what they do well. He’s got a big plan on his plate. I watch him throughout the course of the week and try to get a really good feel for what I know he’s confident with. I also, I’ve always done it with my quarterbacks, I give them my call sheet on Friday morning and I have them mark my call sheet how they like things. Between him giving me feedback and me watching him, we try to come up with the things he does best.”

 

[dalemurphy]

Its not a waste if u get it right like sd and dallas did. As I said its evaluation. Starting with the cam newton class, it looks like carolina,cincy, and 49ers were right. The jury is still out on locker and ponder,gabbert is trash. Even withbthe failures of gabbert, jax cant afford to pass bridgewater or other qbs who may be rated as a franchise qb. A team can fool themselves like parcells did and take jake long 1st and decided to get chad henne in the 2nd passing on matt ryan. Well 5 yrs later, we seenhow thats worked out.

Certainly with the new CBA, taking multiple shots at QBs in the 1st round is much more plausible... Before 2011, missing on a top 10 QB was a death nail because of the size of the contract. However, now it is a very manageable contract which not only means you aren't married to him but also that you can bring in/have competitions with him, etc... That pick no longer defines your team's identity for 4 or 5 years, unless you decide to let it.

So, from that standpoint, your point is even more true.

 

[thunderkyss]

I totally agree with Leebigeztx that I do not want the Texans to ignore the QB position early in the draft by placing too much faith/trust in Keenum, even if he looks good the rest of the year.

What I would want to avoid, to your point, is a mindset that is determined to go get a QB early in the draft that is not based on sound evaluation that he is a guy worthy of the pick and the time investment.

I think the reason why teams miss on QBs in the draft so often is that they have predetermined to get one- overpay for him, while they really have no idea/reason to believe the player is likely to work out,

Completely agree.

& if there is any real criticism of Smith, it's here. He's been here since 2007 & hasn't managed to stock-pile future draft picks. The currency for being able to move around in the draft & get "your guy."

He does fine, moving down & acquiring additional picks. But if we've got to move up to get the guy they believe will be a franchise player, we'll have to give up much of our draft, possibly some of our future draft to get him.

If we had a second first round pick for example, I wouldn't mind gambling with one to select a franchise QB. I'd hate to only have one, use it on a QB that doesn't work out & include our 2nd, 4th, & 5th to get him.

I'd also be upset if I ever found out they thought a guy was worth the cost, but didn't pull the trigger.

As others have mentioned, we've been losing players left & right the last three years & getting little in return in-so-much as future draft picks.

 

[thunderkyss]

A team can fool themselves like parcells did and take jake long 1st and decided to get chad henne in the 2nd passing on matt ryan. Well 5 yrs later, we seenhow thats worked out.

I don't think you can lay that all on the GM & scouting. Jake Long & Chad Henne was a good plan. If that were Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, Jim Harbaugh, or Gary Kubiak coaching/developing those players, it would have gone very differently.

 

[leebigeztx]

I don't think you can lay that all on the GM & scouting. Jake Long & Chad Henne was a good plan. If that were Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, Jim Harbaugh, or Gary Kubiak coaching/developing those players, it would have gone very differently.

The fact is the most important player touches the ball 60 times a game. When eli,ben,rodgers,and brees won sbs,who were their left tackles? Joe thomas is regarded as one of if not the best lt in football,yet his teams have been dismal. Why? They missed on quinn,passed on flacco,missed on weeden,and didn't want to give up a 2nd for rg3. You don't have a qb,your team will be sorry with the new rules.

 

[thunderkyss]

Why? They missed on quinn,passed on flacco,missed on weeden,and didn't want to give up a 2nd for rg3. You don't have a qb,your team will be sorry with the new rules.

Flacco wouldn't be anyone if he went to Cleveland, & Quin very well could have won a Super Bowl in Baltimore. The fact is we'll never really know, but you're saying the Browns missed on Quinn, Weeden, & every other QB they've had there when they may very well have ruined those guys.

There's more to it than just drafting a QB. He's got to fit & you have to support him. I'm sure Peyton Manning would have multiple SBs if he had a coach who knew how to build a team around him & actually help him get where he wanted to go. (Jim Mora... pfft). & I guarantee you Trent Dilfer couldn't have won a Super Bowl without that team & that coach.

 

[76Texan]

Its not a waste if u get it right like sd and dallas did. As I said its evaluation. Starting with the cam newton class, it looks like carolina,cincy, and 49ers were right. The jury is still out on locker and ponder,gabbert is trash. Even withbthe failures of gabbert, jax cant afford to pass bridgewater or other qbs who may be rated as a franchise qb. A team can fool themselves like parcells did and take jake long 1st and decided to get chad henne in the 2nd passing on matt ryan. Well 5 yrs later, we seenhow thats worked out.

Aren't you moving the goal posts here, Leebig?

Both Dalton and Kaepernick were second rounder; both of whom I thought had potential to be starters.

My point was about first rounders; on those, I only prefer to spend a high pick on "sure-fire" starters with great upside to become "franchise" QB; in recent drafts, that would be Luck, RG III, Newton, Bradford, and Stafford.
But with those guys, you've had to have a good draft position to start with; otherwise, you would have to pay too much to move up; it might cost your team dearly.

Even with Bradford, there's the risk with injury, let alone a guy like RG III.
Personally, I was never on board with trading the farm for him.
Look at the guys the Rams got in exchange:
In 2012, they got Michael Brockers, Janorie Jenkins, and Iseah Pead.
Brockers started 12 games in 2012 and 8 so far this year at DT (with 3.5 sacks).
Jenkins started 13 and 8 respectively (5 INTs - 3 for TDs; he also forced 3 fumbles and recovered one for a TD).
In 2013, they got Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, and Zac Stacy.
Ogletree has started all 8 games, and is their leading solo tackler.
Bailey hasn't seen much playing time besides ST duties.
Pead has been hampered by injury, but Stacy rose to the top of the depth chart.
And the Rams still owns th Redskins' first round pick for next year.

That's a tough price to pay to move up just four notches.
What would the Texans have to pay for such a trade up?

 

[76Texan]

Certainly with the new CBA, taking multiple shots at QBs in the 1st round is much more plausible... Before 2011, missing on a top 10 QB was a death nail because of the size of the contract. However, now it is a very manageable contract which not only means you aren't married to him but also that you can bring in/have competitions with him, etc... That pick no longer defines your team's identity for 4 or 5 years, unless you decide to let it.

So, from that standpoint, your point is even more true.

Let's so a re-draft to see if all this is applicable to the Texans.
Last year, the highest drafted QB was EJ Manuel, at 16th overall.

Leebig and I, we both like his potential (Leebig more so than I); however, based on the trade value chart, at exactly 1,000 points, the Texans would have to give up the first and second draft choices (Hopkins and Swearinger.)

Personally, I wouldn't do it, not then, not now.

 

[76Texan]

In 2012, even Tannehill was cost prohibitive to the Texans at 8th overall.
I didn't like him all that much to sell the farm to begin with.

Weeden, at 22nd, has always been a No-Go for me.
Instead, I suggested Wilson and/or Cousins.
They were both affordable and had none of the risk associated with the high cost to acquire a RG III or Tannehill.

 

[76Texan]

In 2011, I correctly predicted that Newton would be the number one overall pick.

Locker at no 8 and Ponder at no 12 were definitely not worth it.
And to think that the Texans would have to forego Watt for them; do you realize how ridiculous the premium put on the QB position can be at times?

Gabbert, at no 10, was already declared a bust by Kiwitexan, and I was pretty close with his sentiment.

Instead, I was on board with Dalton at 35 and Kaepernick at 36.

So far, I've been able to avoid the pitfall of falling in love with a QB in the first round.

My choices cost less and have been producing more, wouldn't you agree?

 

[76Texan]

In 2010, I liked Bradford, but there was no way I would give up the farm to trade up from 20.

I said "No" to Tebow even though I liked him very much as a college QB; I never thought his game would translate to the pro.

I'm glad the Texans drafted Kareem Jackson instead.

I didn't like Clausen, even at 48th overall;
I prefer McCoy at 85th; I saw his floor as a good backup QB.
A late third was a good spot for him, while I rated him higher than Clausen.

 

[76Texan]

In 2009, I wasn't paying much attention to QBs;
I only stated that either Cushing or Matthew would be fine for me, even though I tend to rate players a little lower (and ending up not having enough guys on the big board); I was just being cautious.

How much would it cost for the Texans to move up from 15 to 1?
I wouldn't do it no matter what.

To move up to no 5 to get Sanchez?
We ought to be thankful the Texans didn't do it.

Josh Freeman at 17 was feasible, but I didn't watch any of his college games, so I had no comment.
The Texans wouldn't have drafted a QB with Schaub under contract at that time anyway.

 

[76Texan]

The same goes for 2008; the Texans can't afford to trade up to no 3 for Matt Ryan.

It just happened that I watched a bunch of QB play this year.
I even commented that I liked Ryan even though I estimated that he was in the spread about 70% of the time at Boston College.

I had pegged D Brown as the 8th OT to be drafted (even though my sentiment was that he was a better prospect than that).
I also noted that he would be a nice fit with the Texans ZBS, the way he can operates on the second level.
With Schaub on the roster, it makes even less sense to try to move up for Ryan.

Flacco at 18, I didn't have a problem with, if your team needs a QB.
Once on a while, I would agree with ThreeToePeed (a poster who used to frequent the draft forum), who liked Flacco a little more than I did.
Neither of us worried about him playing at Delaware; so you see that I do evaluate players according to their competition and was able to dig out the lesser-known names.

 

[76Texan]

Obviously I wasn't impressed with the 2007 class, I agreed with TexanMike when he first presented a trade scenario for Matt Schaub.

Personally, I thought it was a little costly, giving up two seconds and a couple of spots in the draft.

Jamarcus Russell was one of the hypes I could never figure out; I didn't think Quinn can be a starter in the NFL either at 22nd.

Kolb (drafted at no. 36), a product from UH, I had a problem with him holding on to the ball too long; I even noted that he took more sacks in college than Carr did with the Texans (prorated to a 16-game schedule, and per pass attempts.)
That's not going to cut it in the pro.
And why does a QB hold on the ball too long?
I don't even need to answer that question.

My wanting to trade for Schaub ought to tell you that I have no homerism.
Keenum is a much better QB than Kolb ever was.
I even said so after Keenum went undrafted while Kolb was having chances to prove himself as a pro.

 

[76Texan]

In 2006, VY was another great college QB that I liked watching.
The guy had potential; the question for me was that "can he improve his passing game while toning down a bit on his running game", both are benificial to him in the long run.

I had great debates about Mario, VY, and Bush with friends and draftniks; I settled on Mario; the Texans getting stuck with Carr notwithstanding.

My bet was that Mario Williams would end up having the best career out of the three. (If one of them get side railed by major injury, the bet is off.)

Well, this doesn't support the reasoning for going all gung-ho with a QB as a high-choice draft pick either, does it?

Matt Leinart was another good college QB, but I noted that he was helped tremendously by an offensive roster that was all drafted to the NFL, all eleven of them.
Drafting him at no 10 would not have helped the cause of those who want a QB in the high order of the draft now would it?

I never watched Cutler in college; so I don't have an opinion on him at draft time.
At no 11 overall, do you guys think he was worth it?

 

[badboy]

Completely agree.

& if there is any real criticism of Smith, it's here. He's been here since 2007 & hasn't managed to stock-pile future draft picks. The currency for being able to move around in the draft & get "your guy."

He does fine, moving down & acquiring additional picks. But if we've got to move up to get the guy they believe will be a franchise player, we'll have to give up much of our draft, possibly some of our future draft to get him.

If we had a second first round pick for example, I wouldn't mind gambling with one to select a franchise QB. I'd hate to only have one, use it on a QB that doesn't work out & include our 2nd, 4th, & 5th to get him.

I'd also be upset if I ever found out they thought a guy was worth the cost, but didn't pull the trigger.

As others have mentioned, we've been losing players left & right the last three years & getting little in return in-so-much as future draft picks.

I think Smith does not trade up often because we always need every pick. We have not yet developed players that allow us to let vets go for future picks. I thought 2014 was to be the year we could go BPA, whoops.

 

[thunderkyss]

You're missing the point '76. No one is saying the Texans should trade their entire draft to go up & get a QB. Leebigeztx is saying if you are Jacksonville & a possible franchise guy is there, you can't afford to pass, because the QB position means that much to a football team.

That goes for any team with a "question" at the QB position. According to many, there's going to be at least one potential franchise QB available when we're on the clock, especially if we maintain our current position.

It's the equivalent of passing on Rodgers, Dalton, Kaepernick & Wilson when we were on the clock. Wouldn't have cost us anything but the player we took instead (Travis Johnson in the case of Rodgers). Imagine how our team would be today if we had selected Aaron Rodgers instead of Travis Johnson.... that's what Leebigeztx is saying.

dalemurphy is saying with the new CBA, you're not as tied to that QB (Gabbert) as we were with Carr, even though there was only a year left on his contract & anyone who couldn't tell Carr was a lost cause at that point (not entirely his own fault) shouldn't have been making personnel decisions.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think Smith does not trade up often because we always need every pick. We have not yet developed players that allow us to let vets go for future picks. I thought 2014 was to be the year we could go BPA, whoops.

Who would we have picked instead of Hopkins if we had gone BPA in 2013?

In hindsight, I can't say I'd rather of had any of the players selected after him... Ogletree? Maybe.

Would have been nice to be able to target a guy like Justin Pugh & go get him, then make similar moves to get Robert Woods in the second & Shawn Williams in the third, but that's hindsight & I really like Hopkins so far.

 

[leebigeztx]

Aren't you moving the goal posts here, Leebig?

Both Dalton and Kaepernick were second rounder; both of whom I thought had potential to be starters.

My point was about first rounders; on those, I only prefer to spend a high pick on "sure-fire" starters with great upside to become "franchise" QB; in recent drafts, that would be Luck, RG III, Newton, Bradford, and Stafford.
But with those guys, you've had to have a good draft position to start with; otherwise, you would have to pay too much to move up; it might cost your team dearly.

Even with Bradford, there's the risk with injury, let alone a guy like RG III.
Personally, I was never on board with trading the farm for him.
Look at the guys the Rams got in exchange:
In 2012, they got Michael Brockers, Janorie Jenkins, and Iseah Pead.
Brockers started 12 games in 2012 and 8 so far this year at DT (with 3.5 sacks).
Jenkins started 13 and 8 respectively (5 INTs - 3 for TDs; he also forced 3 fumbles and recovered one for a TD).
In 2013, they got Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, and Zac Stacy.
Ogletree has started all 8 games, and is their leading solo tackler.
Bailey hasn't seen much playing time besides ST duties.
Pead has been hampered by injury, but Stacy rose to the top of the depth chart.
And the Rams still owns th Redskins' first round pick for next year.

That's a tough price to pay to move up just four notches.
What would the Texans have to pay for such a trade up?

Rg3 was a probowl qb and led his team to 10 wins despite a piss poor defense. Not only that, the anchor of a contract and lack of production from bradford despite what the rams turn into those picks.

Im not sayihg the texans shouldve moved up to get qbs in the past 3yrs,but I do think and have said they shouldve drafted a qb in at least the 1st 3 rds the last couple of years. Im not saying you cant get a high caliber qb in the 2nd rd, im saying you better be right. Sf moved up to get ck which tells you what they thought about him. I dont think they should pass on a qb they have evaluated as a franchise qb because they have keenum. The pricess of waiting till the 2nd rd is very risky because teams underneath tend to jump becuase the teams in the late 20s already have their qb and are looking to move down.

 

[waynegg]

It's a tad premature to call any of Kaepernick, Dalton, or Wilson "franchise" QBs

 

[leebigeztx]

You're missing the point '76. No one is saying the Texans should trade their entire draft to go up & get a QB. Leebigeztx is saying if you are Jacksonville & a possible franchise guy is there, you can't afford to pass, because the QB position means that much to a football team.

That goes for any team with a "question" at the QB position. According to many, there's going to be at least one potential franchise QB available when we're on the clock, especially if we maintain our current position.

It's the equivalent of passing on Rodgers, Dalton, Kaepernick & Wilson when we were on the clock. Wouldn't have cost us anything but the player we took instead (Travis Johnson in the case of Rodgers). Imagine how our team would be today if we had selected Aaron Rodgers instead of Travis Johnson.... that's what Leebigeztx is saying.

dalemurphy is saying with the new CBA, you're not as tied to that QB (Gabbert) as we were with Carr, even though there was only a year left on his contract & anyone who couldn't tell Carr was a lost cause at that point (not entirely his own fault) shouldn't have been making personnel decisions.

Yep, pretty much. Even this year in those draft threads, posterd were asking who the texans couldnt pass, I said geno smith. Even with his troubles or up and down games, I thought his skillset was perfect for kubiak. He arm talent,feet, mobility were all positives. When you see the bombs to stephen hill and santonio holmes, you have to think with a qb guy like kubes,a little seasoning and he could be that guy. You look at the wr depth, I really like terrance williams in the 2nd rd. Thats just me though.

This year, the texans will probably be looking at boyd and hundley where theyre draftihg. Hundley probably needs at least 1 more yr of seasoning whilenboyd needs mechanical work. Even with those questions, you have to draft one of them with your pick if you have anfranchise qbbgrade on them.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's a tad premature to call any of Kaepernick, Dalton, or Wilson "franchise" QBs

That's what I've been saying, especially about Luck & Kaepernick.

I think Russell Wilson leads that pack (Dalton is a year ahead), & I feel safest about him becoming a true starter. I had RG3 in there, but he's starting to show that he's learning how invincible he isn't.

I've got nothing against Luck, I hope he starts for a long, long time. He is showing improvement, especially in taking care of the ball, but I think he's got a long way to go.

Kaepernick is a talented mofo, but so far I'm thinking he's going to be like McNabb & never take the next step.... he'll rely on his talent (which turned out well for McNabb) & if Harbaugh is as good for him as Reid was for McNabb, he'll have a long career.

Then there's Tannehill. Not as flashy or heralded as the other guys, but the kids a baller & he's very smart. He's got as good a chance of being a true starter as any of them.

 

[Corrosion]

This year, the texans will probably be looking at boyd and hundley where theyre draftihg. Hundley probably needs at least 1 more yr of seasoning whilenboyd needs mechanical work. Even with those questions, you have to draft one of them with your pick if you have anfranchise qbbgrade on them.

If they stay in the area of 5th-12th picks they could be looking at both Manziel and Boyd available when they pick.

I have a lot of questions about Manziel , his size and being a spread QB , seldom under center being the biggest of those .... But if he's does come out this year and you have the opportunity to draft him , you really have to consider it strongly, he has a special ability to feel pressure and move around the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. He has a little Drew Brees and some Brett Favre in him ....

Boyd I had rated higher prior to FSU .... but they made him look pedestrian. Last night he didn't look good early against UVA they got it rolling.


I think its possible Hundley is the 3rd QB taken behind Bridgewater & Mariota , possibly in the top 8 picks , based mostly on his upside rather than what he's actually done thus far.
I could see Bridgewater , Mariota , Hundley , Manziel and Boyd all being taken in the first round and Mettenberger could sneak in there too.
This draft could turn out an awful lot like the 1983 draft. Two losers from that draft picking QB's - KC picking Todd Blackledge and New England taking Tony Eason. All the other QB's taken in that draft either went to the probowl or HOF. Ken O'Brien (PB) , Dan Marino , Elway and Kelly.

If the Texans do draft a QB .... lets hope they aren't the NE or KC of this draft.

 

[76Texan]

Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!

No Sir, TK, I got the point alright.

This is the post that I responded to.

It is clear that Leebigz already write Keenum off.
He wants the Texans to draft a QB in the first round regardless of the outcome of the remaining games, and regardless of how Keenum is going to perform.

And on that, I disagree.

 

[76Texan]

Yep, pretty much. Even this year in those draft threads, posterd were asking who the texans couldnt pass, I said geno smith. Even with his troubles or up and down games, I thought his skillset was perfect for kubiak. He arm talent,feet, mobility were all positives. When you see the bombs to stephen hill and santonio holmes, you have to think with a qb guy like kubes,a little seasoning and he could be that guy. You look at the wr depth, I really like terrance williams in the 2nd rd. Thats just me though.

This year, the texans will probably be looking at boyd and hundley where theyre draftihg. Hundley probably needs at least 1 more yr of seasoning whilenboyd needs mechanical work. Even with those questions, you have to draft one of them with your pick if you have anfranchise qbbgrade on them.

I'm not even sure Geno has a stronger arm than Keenum.
The radar gun clocked them at the same 55 mph.
But let's say Geno does have a little stronger of an arm, he has nothing else that one can call as an upgrade to Keenum.

I had spent some time rewatching all of his games this season.
If I was you, I would have the Jets start looking for a QB in the first round in the next draft.

 

[76Texan]

Oh and BTW, there are teams like the Jets and the Jaguars that were in clear need of a QB and neither spent a first rounder on a QB last year.

Heck, both of them could have taken EJ Manuel, but neither did.
Maybe the Raiders, too.

 

[thunderkyss]

I have a lot of questions about Manziel...

The only questions I have about Manziel is his love of football & his ambition to be great.

Kid reminds me of Namath in every way.

 

[leebigeztx]

I'm not even sure Geno has a stronger arm than Keenum.
The radar gun clocked them at the same 55 mph.
But let's say Geno does have a little stronger of an arm, he has nothing else that one can call as an upgrade to Keenum.

I had spent some time rewatching all of his games this season.
If I was you, I would have the Jets start looking for a QB in the first round in the next draft.

Jaguars are dumb and proff is they drafted a bum in gabbert and refused to draft one this yr and won't win a game.

You can pull out your radar gun all u want, print ur tickets up,stand in line, and watch keenum throw the ball.Any who declares his ball travel with the same velocity as even tj yates is drunk,high,and stupid.

 

[76Texan]

Jaguars are dumb and proff is they drafted a bum in gabbert and refused to draft one this yr and won't win a game.

You can pull out your radar gun all u want, print ur tickets up,stand in line, and watch keenum throw the ball.Any who declares his ball travel with the same velocity as even tj yates is drunk,high,and stupid.

You're such a comedian. LOL.

 

[Vance87]

Jaguars are dumb and proff is they drafted a bum in gabbert and refused to draft one this yr and won't win a game.

You can pull out your radar gun all u want, print ur tickets up,stand in line, and watch keenum throw the ball.Any who declares his ball travel with the same velocity as even tj yates is drunk,high,and stupid.

Yeah, forget those screwy things called numbers and technology, it's all witchcraft I tells ya!

 

[EVOLVIST]

You're such a comedian. LOL.

What's really comedic is that every since Case was announced the starter this week 11 people voted in this thread to start Keenum (not that I'm counting, or anything).

 

[Corrosion]

The only questions I have about Manziel is his love of football & his ambition to be great.

Kid reminds me of Namath in every way.

Eh , I think you have to be able to play under center in the NFL .... Manziel doesn't do that right now.
I have to wonder if that's to get him good looks at the defense allowing him easier presnap reads much like Kubiak does for Keenum being a shorter guy.

He's got some special skills either way.

 

[Corrosion]

You can pull out your radar gun all u want, print ur tickets up,stand in line, and watch keenum throw the ball.Any who declares his ball travel with the same velocity as even tj yates is drunk,high,and stupid.

You're such a comedian. LOL.

I don't know if he's a comedian or not .... But I've questioned Keenum's arm on some throws too. Not that it isn't entirely adequate .... but that he could use a little more velocity here and there.


We're going to have to see a whole lot more of Keenum before we crown him the solution going forward.

So far so good .... so what.

 

[76Texan]

Yeah, forget those screwy things called numbers and technology, it's all witchcraft I tells ya!

Leebigz likes to go with his eye test, except I think he closes his eyes when Geno threw all of them picks, especially the pick-sixes.

Yeah, Geno has great arm strength there.

 

[Rey]

Keenum threw a comeback to posey on the run. 2nd play of the game.

 

[76Texan]

The noodle arm forced AJ to really stretch for it .

 

[MEGA SWATT]

I am going to LMAO when a UDFA outplays the #1 ovrl pick at his position from his draft class on Sunday night football in front of the entire country.

Msr

case

Let's just say if that happens I'd have to change my shorts.

Let's just say... you better have an extra pair handy.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Where is Leebigeztx, anyway? I'd like to hear his take on Keenum's fvcking fettuccini arm after last night's aerial display from Case's supposed limp member.

We still need a larger sample size on Case, though. Still, Leebigeztx's absence is about as curious as Schaub's was when Schaub wasn't available for post-game quotes.

 

[ziggy29]

We still need a larger sample size on Case, though. Still, Leebigeztx's absence is about as curious as Schaub's was when Schaub wasn't available for post-game quotes.

We need a larger sample size to determine if Keenum is the guy to build around in the future (and to let us know whether or not we need to draft a QB really high). We don't need a larger sample size to convince me that the rest of this season should be Keenum's. We've already gotten the best we'll ever get out of Schaub and I think Yates is a decent backup but little more.

 

[IlliniJen]

We need a larger sample size to determine if Keenum is the guy to build around in the future (and to let us know whether or not we need to draft a QB really high). We don't need a larger sample size to convince me that the rest of this season should be Keenum's. We've already gotten the best we'll ever get out of Schaub and I think Yates is a decent backup but little more.

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

 

[stonewhite]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

Can't be to mad at them. They are the only team who gave him a chance. So happy for Case. Hope he's here to stay.

 

[Vance87]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

Last year in preseason he looked pretty bad. He was safe on the PS all of 2012 because nobody had any reason to suspect that he was going to ever start an NFL game, and we didn't mind because Schaub was (by far) the best QB on the team last year and we were 12-4. Then come this year, Kubiak gleamed about how much he had progressed and we saw how good he looked in preseason. Then you know the rest.

 

[Scooter]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

i wouldnt say they missed on him at all. keenum wasnt ready last year, and honestly isnt completely ripe yet IMO. the ideal situation would've been a competent schaub this season as case gets more familiar with the offense as well as reading NFL defenses. keenum looks absolutely amazing so far, and i've been calling for the switch once schaub went full retard around game 4. he's not all the way there yet though, especially when it comes to adjustments and reading defenses.

 

[corytx8]

I had a gut feeling telling me that case Keenum was going to be the starting next season. The organization was going to roll with Matt this season only to see him fall short at the end of the season again however pick 6 streak and injury bug happened. Otherwise, Gary doesn't jump TJ Yates for the KC game.