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Where are all the Horns at?

Sumlin's flash over substance style was bound to fail eventually. These kids need a coach, not a buddy.
I imagine hearing every coach in the SEC and BIG 12 saying, " you really want to go to TAM? Coach Sumlin is running players off faster than he can recruit them. Do you really want to be a part of that circus where things are not turning out they you expect them to or told they would?"
 
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I only commented because I am a big UT fan and I occasionally peruse the UT websites. This is a big talking point among the people who want Strong fired.

Strong's strength so far since getting hired has been his recruiting. Texas just had 3 players on the 1st team Freshman All American team.

People place an odd importance on recruiting rankings. Suffice it to say, I think very little of them.

Grading a recruiting class on signing day is like grading a draft class the day after the NFL draft, except with even less information about each player.

Gotcha! I only commented because I am used to seeing them high in the ranking :D
It was real surprising to me... being overseas I didn't get to follow college football at all this year, other than on this board.
But knowing what I do of UT alumni, I'm sure they are raking Strong over the coals about being out recruited, whether based on fact or not
 
Didn't UT have top recruiting class in big 12 last year after signing day. I'm sure it will be more of the same this year
 
Gotcha! I only commented because I am used to seeing them high in the ranking :D
It was real surprising to me... being overseas I didn't get to follow college football at all this year, other than on this board.
But knowing what I do of UT alumni, I'm sure they are raking Strong over the coals about being out recruited, whether based on fact or not

Being as big a fan as I am, I can tell you that UT has just about the worst fans in the country when it comes to patience and expectations vs reality.

It's unfortunate, because if the people in Strong's way would just move and stand behind him he could get the program back on track.
 
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Wow! What has happened to UT recruiting? This will spell the doom of Strong if he doesn't get it turned around

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/classrankings


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Being a Longhorn has lost it's luster. Of course it was the one University I was told I could NOT to go to even while it was on top of the football world (1975). Messed up "educators" being the reason given.
 
Being a Longhorn has lost it's luster. Of course it was the one University I was told I could NOT to go to even while it was on top of the football world (1975). Messed up "educators" being the reason given.
Well as William F Buckley said, I would rather be governed by the first 100 names in the phone book than I would by the Faculty at Harvard (or in this case UT). I'm not sure there is a bigger collection of Communist and Socialist in the State of Texas than that what can be found on the 40 acres of UT.
 
Y'all need to leave Thorn's mangos alone.

What do you even know of UT? You haven't been there in decades if at all.
 
Being as big a fan as I am, I can tell you that UT has just about the worst fans in the country when it comes to patience and expectations vs reality.

It's unfortunate, because if the people in Strong's way would just move and stand behind him he could get the program back on track.


I don't know. Alabama would give them a run for their money. They've just had those expectations met enough to keep them quiet but a lot of Crimson Tide fans pretty much expect a national championship every year.
 
I don't know. Alabama would give them a run for their money. They've just had those expectations met enough to keep them quiet but a lot of Crimson Tide fans pretty much expect a national championship every year.

This is true. Alabama is up there. But those expectations have been earned and most years the goal isn't unrealistic.

Texas fans want that. But they don't want to go through the process of earning it.
 
This is true. Alabama is up there. But those expectations have been earned and most years the goal isn't unrealistic.

Texas fans want that. But they don't want to go through the process of earning it.

I like people who set high expectations and will except nothing less.

What is the process of earning it?

What bothers me about Strong is he preach's discipline, even kicks people off of the team for minor transgressions. But his teams on the field are some of the most undisciplined teams I've ever seen. This is the reason Strong is living on borrowed time. That and the fact that they get blown out by Notre Dame/Kansas St/Iowa St.

It says something about Strong's coaching abilities that one week they can beat Oklahoma and the next week get shut out by Iowa St.
 
For a member of a fanbase, what does accepting nothing less consist of? I mean how do you do that?

Nothing less than say a LSU/OSU/Oklahoma/FSU/Ala type program. I'm not saying Texas should win a NC every yr. But they should be a top 10 team every yr. They have the resources to become this, I dont see Strong being the HC that gets the program to this level.
 
Nothing less than say a LSU/OSU/Oklahoma/FSU/Ala type program. I'm not saying Texas should win a NC every yr. But they should be a top 10 team every yr. They have the resources to become this, I dont see Strong being the HC that gets the program to this level.
I don't mean what are you're expectations, I mean how do you demonstrate your unwillingness to accept it when they don't meet those expectations?
 
I like people who set high expectations and will except nothing less.

What is the process of earning it?

What bothers me about Strong is he preach's discipline, even kicks people off of the team for minor transgressions. But his teams on the field are some of the most undisciplined teams I've ever seen. This is the reason Strong is living on borrowed time. That and the fact that they get blown out by Notre Dame/Kansas St/Iowa St.

It says something about Strong's coaching abilities that one week they can beat Oklahoma and the next week get shut out by Iowa St.

There are a couple of ways to earn it. If you want a quick fix (flash, style, excitement) then hire a coach who will provide you with a quick fix. If you feel like the foundation of your program is faulty (lazy, entitled, country club atmosphere) and you want to tear it down and rebuild then you hire a coach who will tear it down and rebuild.

What you don't do is say that you want a full rebuild, hire a coach who is going to perform a full rebuild, and then ***** and complain that you didn't get a quick fix.

The administration and fans decided that the culture of the program had gone bad and needed to be reset. They hired Charlie Strong to do that. They guaranteed him a certain number of years to tear the house down and then rebuild it with a solid foundation. They asked him how long it would take. He said four years. It's been two.

The administration and fans wanted the cancerous players gone. They wanted that attitude gone. They wanted that atmosphere gone. Strong told all the players what the deal was when he signed on. Those who didn't want to be part of the new way of doing things either left on their own or got sent packing. You can say minor transgressions all you want. I am a coach. And I would kick my best player to the curb without a second thought if he were a cancer festering in my locker room. Cancers spread. I don't care how talented you are. If you aren't on board you better find a different ride. The super talented may have a longer leash, but even that leash can only extend so far.

Strong said all these things were going to happen. The fans cheered. Then Strong did it. And the fans bitched and complained. In the past two years he has completely torn out the bad foundation. He is starting the rebuild now (3 Freshman All Americans in his first full recruiting class). In the next two years he will finish the rebuild.

Why are Strong's teams sometimes undisciplined? They start more true freshmen than they start Juniors and Seniors combined. That's what the fans asked for. They asked for the entitled players to be sent away. Who did they think was going to replace them?

Why are Strong's teams sometimes undisciplined? His coaching staff has been in disarray since his arrival because boosters, fans, and the athletic department keep getting involved in decisions that aren't up to them. The head coach was given a salary cap for his coaching staff (first time in school history this has been demanded by the athletic department) and so he couldn't afford to bring all the coaches that he wanted. He was also forced to accept coaches onto his staff that he didn't want, because the boosters thought he was nothing better than a "position coach" and couldn't be trusted to assume control of such matters.

He was forced to keep Mack Brown's recruiting coordinator, TE coach Bruce Chambers, because of his recruiting connections in Texas. Never mind that Chambers hadn't been an effective position coach in over a decade, and that his idea of "recruiting" was to just mail out offers to the players in the state that had the highest Rivals' rating. But Charlie "needed" him because Charlie isn't a Texan, he's a foreigner. And only a Texan knows how to recruit Texas. Never mind that foreigners like Saban, Miles, Fisher, Meyer, and numerous other coaches have occasionally plucked top talent from the state on more than one occasion.

He was forced to hire Les Koenning as his WR coach because his offensive staff didn't have enough "Texas guys" on it. Koenning couldn't coach, couldn't recruit, and Charlie fired him after one year.

He was forced to bring Watson with him from Louisville as his OC because his top two choices for OC were deemed too expensive. The money he saved by bringing Watson was then supposed to be used to pay OL coach Wickline's buyout at Oklahoma St. But after the hire had already become public and any chance of Wickline returning to OSU had been wiped away, the athletic department just decided they didn't want to pay that buyout anymore, and forced Strong to name Wickline the Offensive Coordinator so that they could bypass it. This, despite the fact that Watson would still be calling the plays. Suffice it to say, Wickline was not happy that his "promotion" came with no extra money and no extra responsibilities. It was in name only. And he was made even more unhappy when OSU sued him for breach of contract and he had to settle out of his own pocket because the UT athletic department wouldn't help him.

That sounds like a really fun working environment to be a part of. Shockingly, the coaches that Strong has brought in on his own to replace those coaches have all garnered positive reviews. His WR coach did an admirable job filling in as OC after Watson demonstrated that he just wasn't capable of running the offense that Strong wanted. His TE coach is their best recruiter. His new OC runs the type of offense that Strong wants. And his new OL coach has implemented this offense at three different schools.

Long story short, here is how you earn it. You want a job done? You search for the right guy to get the job done. Then you ask him what he needs to get the job done. Then you give it to him. And then you get the hell out of the way.

You don't impede his progress at every possible step and then get angry at him for not somehow being able to get the job done faster than agreed. Every coach has a process. Strong outlined his process at the very beginning. Everybody signed on and then jumped off at the first sign of any obstacle that needed to be overcome for the process to succeed.

Maybe the lazy, entitled, country club atmosphere wasn't coming from the locker room...

Fix that. And then it will have been earned.
 
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Sorry for my entirely too long response that addressed more than just your question.

But as a coach, I get sick and tired of reading and listening to all this bullshit about a great coach who hasn't gotten a fair shake.

And it all comes from people who don't know **** about coaching, don't know **** about what it's like to work with young men every day, and don't know **** about what it's like to get hired for a job and then have your reputation tarnished because the same people that hired you tried to pull the rug out from under you halfway through the job.

I fully expect Charlie Strong to get it done at Texas if he is given his four years and the fans and administration just get the hell out of the way. If I'm wrong I will own up to it. I've had to do it before.

But I don't think I'm going to be wrong. And I think it's going to be hilarious when all these fake fans jump right back on the bandwagon wearing their t-shirts and try to act like they've supported this guy from the start.
 
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Sorry for my entirely too long response that addressed more than just your question.

But as a coach, I get sick and tired of reading and listening to all this bullshit about a great coach who hasn't gotten a fair shake.

And it all comes from people who don't know **** about coaching, don't know **** about what it's like to work with young men every day, and don't know **** about what it's like to get hired for a job and then have your reputation tarnished because the same people that hired you tried to pull the rug out from under you halfway through the job.

I fully expect Charlie Strong to get it done at Texas if he is given his four years and the fans and administration just get the hell out of the way. If I'm wrong I will own up to it. I've had to do it before.

But I don't think I'm going to be wrong. And I think it's going to be hilarious when all these fake fans jump right back on the bandwagon wearing their t-shirts and try to act like they've supported this guy from the start.

Thanks for the response, I learned alot about the inner workings of the UT football program. I'm for giving Strong 4 yrs but seeing UT suck is disconcerting.

The thing I keep coming back too when it comes to Strong is Steve Patterson hired him and that guy didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. Shaka Smart hiring not withstanding. Patterson is a BB guy so I would expect this to be a good hire.

BTW, not everybody wanted the program completely torn down. (I did) They wanted a Saban/Fisher quick rebuild, this has caused a divide within Longhorn nation that I'm not sure Strong survives. Particularly if UT sucks again this yr, which is very likely.
 
Thanks for the response, I learned alot about the inner workings of the UT football program. I'm for giving Strong 4 yrs but seeing UT suck is disconcerting.

The thing I keep coming back too when it comes to Strong is Steve Patterson hired him and that guy didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. Shaka Smart hiring not withstanding. Patterson is a BB guy so I would expect this to be a good hire.

BTW, not everybody wanted the program completely torn down. (I did) They wanted a Saban/Fisher quick rebuild, this has caused a divide within Longhorn nation that I'm not sure Strong survives. Particularly if UT sucks again this yr, which is very likely.
Patterson was nickle and dime guy. His raising ticket prices and sticking it the biggest donors raising rent on their boxes and not treating them with the respect they thought they deserved made him one of the shortest serving ADs in history. Unfortunately for Strong he got the short straw getting caught up in Patterson's austerity program. Strong's first year was FUBAR and his 2nd year started out SNAFU.
 
Thanks for the response, I learned alot about the inner workings of the UT football program. I'm for giving Strong 4 yrs but seeing UT suck is disconcerting.

The thing I keep coming back too when it comes to Strong is Steve Patterson hired him and that guy didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. Shaka Smart hiring not withstanding. Patterson is a BB guy so I would expect this to be a good hire.

BTW, not everybody wanted the program completely torn down. (I did) They wanted a Saban/Fisher quick rebuild, this has caused a divide within Longhorn nation that I'm not sure Strong survives. Particularly if UT sucks again this yr, which is very likely.

The thing about Patterson is that he's not an idiot. He's actually an extremely intelligent man. And while he grew up a basketball guy, he is more than that. He was the team president and then GM of the Trail Blazers. He worked with the Rockets. But he's also worked in upper management with the Texans and Aeros. He's a pro sports guy.

And he ran the UT athletic department like it was a pro franchise. He deals with numbers and has no concept of the amateur nature of college sports. All he sees is the bottom line.

I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he hired both Strong and Smart. I think he recognizes a good coach. But once he saw that it would take resources to support the rebuilds that both of those programs needed he started trying to find every way possible to nickel and dime the coaching staffs so that the profit margin wouldn't take a hit. There's a whole list of things he took away from the athletic department to try to save a few bucks, and most of it was stuff that isn't even expensive and made no impact on UT's massive final budget, but did make a big impact on the athletic programs themselves.

I think UT is very likely to be an improved team next year. They are still very young and they still need to find a QB. We'll see how they look as the season approaches but I would expect something like a 9-4 record after a bowl game (8-4 with a win or 9-3 and then a loss to a better opponent). I don't think they will wow anybody, but I think they will play hard and surprise some people. Their schedule gets easier too. This year's schedule was rated as the #1 toughest in the nation before bowl games were played.
 
The thing about Patterson is that he's not an idiot. He's actually an extremely intelligent man. And while he grew up a basketball guy, he is more than that. He was the team president and then GM of the Trail Blazers. He worked with the Rockets. But he's also worked in upper management with the Texans and Aeros. He's a pro sports guy.

And he ran the UT athletic department like it was a pro franchise. He deals with numbers and has no concept of the amateur nature of college sports. All he sees is the bottom line.

I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he hired both Strong and Smart. I think he recognizes a good coach. But once he saw that it would take resources to support the rebuilds that both of those programs needed he started trying to find every way possible to nickel and dime the coaching staffs so that the profit margin wouldn't take a hit. There's a whole list of things he took away from the athletic department to try to save a few bucks, and most of it was stuff that isn't even expensive and made no impact on UT's massive final budget, but did make a big impact on the athletic programs themselves.

I think UT is very likely to be an improved team next year. They are still very young and they still need to find a QB. We'll see how they look as the season approaches but I would expect something like a 9-4 record after a bowl game (8-4 with a win or 9-3 and then a loss to a better opponent). I don't think they will wow anybody, but I think they will play hard and surprise some people. Their schedule gets easier too. This year's schedule was rated as the #1 toughest in the nation before bowl games were played.

Patterson is book/$$$$ smart.

But how smart is he to hire new HC's and then not give them the resources to succeed? UT is a program where that type of stuff should never happen.

Disrespecting the Jamail's/McComb's/Cooley's/Cunninham's of the world isn't very smart if you want job security. BTW, I think the interim AD fully supports Strong.
 
Patterson is book/$$$$ smart.

But how smart is he to hire new HC's and then not give them the resources to succeed? UT is a program where that type of stuff should never happen.

Disrespecting the Jamail's/McComb's/Cooley's/Cunninham's of the world isn't very smart if you want job security. BTW, I think the interim AD fully supports Strong.

I think he went out and got good coaches because he thought that would mean that the athletic department wouldn't have to put out. The coaches would just figure it out. If he had known that he would need to provide I fully expect that he would have gone cheaper on the coaching hires to make up the difference.

I agree with you that the entire situation should never have happened. It's embarrassing, and it's totally the type of stuff that fans that hate Texas are always harping about.

I think that Patterson did know that the boosters were too involved in the programs and that he needed to do something about it. But his way of handling that and showing them who the boss is was a massive mistake. Fortunately, that mistake is what ultimately cost him his job.

I'm not sure that Strong will ever get full support from anyone in the athletic department unless he somehow wins a national title. I do think that the situation now is an upgrade. But up until even a few weeks ago, there were still a number of people who have already made up their mind on Strong and are actively trying to sabotage his reign as head coach so that they can fire him and hire Herman before somebody else does.
 
I think he went out and got good coaches because he thought that would mean that the athletic department wouldn't have to put out. The coaches would just figure it out. If he had known that he would need to provide I fully expect that he would have gone cheaper on the coaching hires to make up the difference.

I agree with you that the entire situation should never have happened. It's embarrassing, and it's totally the type of stuff that fans that hate Texas are always harping about.

I think that Patterson did know that the boosters were too involved in the programs and that he needed to do something about it. But his way of handling that and showing them who the boss is was a massive mistake. Fortunately, that mistake is what ultimately cost him his job.

I'm not sure that Strong will ever get full support from anyone in the athletic department unless he somehow wins a national title. I do think that the situation now is an upgrade. But up until even a few weeks ago, there were still a number of people who have already made up their mind on Strong and are actively trying to sabotage his reign as head coach so that they can fire him and hire Herman before somebody else does.

Totally agree with this post.

Without naming names are the people that are currently trying to sabotage Strong the people that were in the Mack Brown camp?

While I do believe that Herman would be an upgrade over Strong, you dont do that to a HC you just hired. (Strong) It shows a lack of integrity. With that said if Strong has another subpar yr you can bet the howls for Herman will grow louder and most likely Strong will be gone. It's not fair, but as I'm sure you're aware there's not much fair in the coaching game.
 
Totally agree with this post.

Without naming names are the people that are currently trying to sabotage Strong the people that were in the Mack Brown camp?

While I do believe that Herman would be an upgrade over Strong, you dont do that to a HC you just hired. (Strong) It shows a lack of integrity. With that said if Strong has another subpar yr you can bet the howls for Herman will grow louder and most likely Strong will be gone. It's not fair, but as I'm sure you're aware there's not much fair in the coaching game.

Not necessarily. It doesn't really have anything to do with Mack Brown. There are some people who don't like the way that Mack was shown the door. And there are some that just didn't like the Strong hire in the first place. It's the latter that have caused nearly all of the problems.

I don't know that Herman would be an upgrade. But I do like him a whole lot. But I would have to agree. Another 7 loss season and Strong will be gone for sure. Fair or not.
 
I find this Strong transition very interesting as it has similarities and differences with the Bowden - Fisher transition. Fisher had the benefit of being a coach in waiting and running the offense before the official transition.
 
Based on the results of today's "Signing Day" I am predicting that Sumlin will get the axe long before Charlie Strong sees a pink slip.
 
It is no surprise to me that Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban have two of the Top 3 recruiting classes.
 
Based on the results of today's "Signing Day" I am predicting that Sumlin will get the axe long before Charlie Strong sees a pink slip.
It appears that A&M has had one of the worst signing classes in the SEC. I'm thinking this is Sumlin's last year. He has created a mess in College Station.
 
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