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Where are all of the Mario supporters?

Vinny said:
LOL, I think you have that backwards. Lawson was voted team MVP- BY HIS TEAMMATES! Mario had a better combine though...so he has that going for him.

Superstars open the game up for lesser players...not the other way around....unless you are a Houston fan I guess.
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Do you have a link for that?

I was pretty certain that Lawson was voted Defensive MVP, and Mario was voted overall MVP of the team.

2005: All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report and Sports Illustrated…added second team honors from the Walter Camp Foundation and third-team accolades from the Associated Press…All-Atlantic Coast Conference first-team selection…voted the team’s Most Valuable Player…played in every game, starting ten contests at left defensive end…came off the bench vs. Wake Forest and Maryland…finished fourth on the team with 62 tackles (32 solos) and led the squad with 23 quarterback pressures…deflected five passes and blocked a kick…recorded a safety, returned a fumble recovery 4 yards and caused two fumbles…set a school season-record, as he led the ACC and ranked fourth in the nation with 14.5 sacks for minus 75 yards…also set a Wolfpack season record and ranked second in the NCAA Division 1-A ranks with 27.5 stops for losses of 111 yards.

I can't give you the direct page link, click on "About"
 
Texans_Chick said:
Do you have a link for that?

I was pretty certain that Lawson was voted Defensive MVP, and Mario was voted overall MVP of the team.

2005: All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report and Sports Illustrated…added second team honors from the Walter Camp Foundation and third-team accolades from the Associated Press…All-Atlantic Coast Conference first-team selection…voted the team’s Most Valuable Player…played in every game, starting ten contests at left defensive end…came off the bench vs. Wake Forest and Maryland…finished fourth on the team with 62 tackles (32 solos) and led the squad with 23 quarterback pressures…deflected five passes and blocked a kick…recorded a safety, returned a fumble recovery 4 yards and caused two fumbles…set a school season-record, as he led the ACC and ranked fourth in the nation with 14.5 sacks for minus 75 yards…also set a Wolfpack season record and ranked second in the NCAA Division 1-A ranks with 27.5 stops for losses of 111 yards.

I can't give you the direct page link, click on "About"
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NFL draft report all american?

The Bronko Nagurski Trophy and the Lombardi Award are the awards with the most prestige....to my knowledge he wasn't a finalist.

http://www.touchdownclub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=show_page&page_id=4

http://www.rotarylombardiaward.com/05finalists.html
 
texan_fan_in_tampa_bay said:
You'd rather have Vince Young than David Carr? In three years, Vince Young will be playing checkers with Akili Smith on Sundays.
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I like Carr and didn't think Vince would fit on the Texans - but you got to give Vince props - he's a winner.

I think your going to have to rethink the checkers thing...
 
as head coach he needs to get on his coordinators to get Williams some coaching and a scheme to take advantage of the players we have.


That is exactly what he said he would do with Smith. He said he would be helping Smith more with tape & breaking down what the opposition's offense was trying to do. I heard him say this During his radio show on 610.
 
Vinny said:
NFL draft report all american?

The Bronko Nagurski Trophy and the Lombardi Award are the awards with the most prestige....to my knowledge he wasn't a finalist.

http://www.touchdownclub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=show_page&page_id=4

http://www.rotarylombardiaward.com/05finalists.html
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Mario wasn't special NC state and was special in the NFL combine. Hopefully he can turn into something special on the field in the NFL. 7 games into it... no sign of anything special...
 
I like Carr and didn't think Vince would fit on the Texans - but you got to give Vince props - he's a winner


i'm so tired of people talking this winner garbage. There have been tons & tons of Qb's who were labeled "winners" when they came out only to be "exposed" in the NFL, Do i even have to name them? when will people realize that being a winner depends on many factors, not just "well he won in high school & college so he'll automatically be a star on the next level."
 
Mr teX said:
I like Carr and didn't think Vince would fit on the Texans - but you got to give Vince props - he's a winner


i'm so tired of people talking this winner garbage. There have been tons & tons of Qb's who were labeled "winners" when they came out only to be "exposed" in the NFL, Do i even have to name them? when will people realize that being a winner depends on many factors, not just "well he won in high school & college so he'll automatically be a star on the next level."
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Really? Tons of "winners" who won NC championships on their own and were "exposed". Maybe I'm missing somehting - but I don't recall any. So yes, name a few...
 
Texan1 said:
Really? Tons of "winners" who won NC championships on their own and were "exposed". Maybe I'm missing somehting - but I don't recall any. So yes, name a few...
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If you believe he won the NC on his own, well i don't know what to tell you. You see, there is thing called Defense that Texas was really good at that year. & yes, THEY won the NC, but you don't neccessarily NEED to win the NC to be labeled a winner, Vince was labeled that before he even went to UT, but did he win the Texas high school state championship....No. But since you brought it up Ken Dorsey, Andre Ware, Chris Weinke, Danny Wuerffel, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer & pretty much every Heisman trophy winning QB the last what 15-20 years sans Carson Palmer. All the above did nothing but win in college & that's not even including guys like Heath Shuler & Tim Couch.
 
Mr teX said:
If you believe he won the NC on his own, well i don't know what to tell you. You see, there is thing called Defense that Texas was really good at that year. & yes, THEY won the NC, but you don't neccessarily NEED to win the NC to be labeled a winner, Vince was labeled that before he even went to UT, but did he win the Texas high school state championship....No. But since you brought it up Ken Dorsey, Andre Ware, Chris Weinke, Danny Wuerffel, Gino Torretta, Ty Detmer & pretty much every Heisman trophy winning QB the last what 15-20 years sans Carson Palmer. All the above did nothing but win in college & that's not even including guys like Heath Shuler & Tim Couch.
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Ok, there ya go not making any sense again. We're talking about winning games - not trophies. Trpohies don't equate to W's or championships. Trophies don't make a winner - winnng games does.

Not sure many of those guys won championships. Doresy and Werffel did, but are not the same way or caliber as Young.

BTW I'm not a tsip - not even close, but did you watch the national championship game? I don't care how the Texas D played (btw it wasn't good against USC), Texas doesn't win without Vince. Or with any other QB for that matter. The boy has game. Gotta give him props for winning that game - thats all I'm saying.

He do well in the NFL too...
 
Vinny said:
NFL draft report all american?

The Bronko Nagurski Trophy and the Lombardi Award are the awards with the most prestige....to my knowledge he wasn't a finalist.

http://www.touchdownclub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=show_page&page_id=4

http://www.rotarylombardiaward.com/05finalists.html
Click to expand...


Nice changing the subject. You made a point of saying how Lawson was voted MVP of the team, and that is just not correct.

Williams started his 2005 off slow and then had all of his fat stats in the second part of the season after the defensive coordinator finally unleashed him. By the time he had his fat stats, it was too late to be national award considered his final season.

He had three defensive coordinators in three years. Each of them wanted him to do different things.

I am sure you have read various pre-draft reports as well, such as this. Like most drafted guys, there are pros and cons to his play, but none of it says that he isn't a hard worker, isn't willing to learn, or isn't football smart.

Look. I am not clearing a space for him in Canton, but I do think that if people are going to pour haterade on him for his performance in three games working under a rookie DC and mostly young guys on the line with him, well then I guess they can go ahead and do it.

Just try not to poison everyone with misinformation.

Check out the stats for all the top defensive linemen so far in 2006:

link

Check out how long they've been in the league, and how many tackles they had their rookie year.

I might be wrong, but to me, his play looks like someone who is not comfortable with what he is supposed to be doing yet. As an athlete, if you are thinking too much, it effects what you can do on the field. (reason #1 why my golf game usually sucks).

I understand the point of view that people would rather have Bush or Young or wish there was a trade partner for trading down, but putting all the blame on this horrible defense on a rookie seems to be a bit of a witchhunt.
 
Texan1 said:
Ok, there ya go not making any sense again. We're talking about winning games - not trophies. Trpohies don't equate to W's or championships. Trophies don't make a winner - winnng games does.

Not sure many of those guys won championships. Doresy and Werffel did, but are not the same way or caliber as Young.

BTW I'm not a tsip - not even close, but did you watch the national championship game? I don't care how the Texas D played (btw it wasn't good against USC), Texas doesn't win without Vince. Or with any other QB for that matter. The boy has game. Gotta give him props for winning that game - thats all I'm saying.

He do well in the NFL too...
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Are you serious. Maybe you didn't watch the game, but I remember the most important play as being the fourth and two. Where USC was stopped. You know who was in on that play. Not Young and Not Bush. However that was the decisive play of the game. Texas doesn't win without that play which was made by the defense, so don't give us that Vince is the reason they won.
 
Texan1 said:
Ok, there ya go not making any sense again. We're talking about winning games - not trophies. Trpohies don't equate to W's or championships. Trophies don't make a winner - winnng games does.

Not sure many of those guys won championships. Doresy and Werffel did, but are not the same way or caliber as Young.

BTW I'm not a tsip - not even close, but did you watch the national championship game? I don't care how the Texas D played (btw it wasn't good against USC), Texas doesn't win without Vince. Or with any other QB for that matter. The boy has game. Gotta give him props for winning that game - thats all I'm saying.

He do well in the NFL too...
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Yes i watched the NC & it was The D who got Vince the ball back in the 4th qtr of the NC, the D who had Lienart uncomfortable the entire 1st half of the NC & It was the D who kept Vince & Texas in the game after he turned the ball over twice in Ohio State. If that D isn't in place during the Ohio State game they most likely lose that game b/c no way you get away with turning the ball over like that without the other team at least punching one in for a TD. Like you said Texas doesn't win without Vince, but Vince doesn't win without that D either (see the year before). I too think he will be solid in the NFL, And if we're talking about winning games hmm...... I'm pretty sure all those guys won many many games for their respective alma maters, at the very least helped their teams get into BCS bowls.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Are you serious. Maybe you didn't watch the game, but I remember the most important play as being the fourth and two. Where USC was stopped. You know who was in on that play. Not Young and Not Bush. However that was the decisive play of the game. Texas doesn't win without that play which was made by the defense, so don't give us that Vince is the reason they won.
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OK, and they won b/c the Texas kicker (Pino) made a 1st qtr field goal and the punter didn't fumble every snap. But Vince won that game bro.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Nice changing the subject. You made a point of saying how Lawson was voted MVP of the team, and that is just not correct.

Williams started his 2005 off slow and then had all of his fat stats in the second part of the season after the defensive coordinator finally unleashed him. By the time he had his fat stats, it was too late to be national award considered his final season.

He had three defensive coordinators in three years. Each of them wanted him to do different things.

I am sure you have read various pre-draft reports as well, such as this. Like most drafted guys, there are pros and cons to his play, but none of it says that he isn't a hard worker, isn't willing to learn, or isn't football smart.

Look. I am not clearing a space for him in Canton, but I do think that if people are going to pour haterade on him for his performance in three games working under a rookie DC and mostly young guys on the line with him, well then I guess they can go ahead and do it.

Just try not to poison everyone with misinformation.

Check out the stats for all the top defensive linemen so far in 2006:

link

Check out how long they've been in the league, and how many tackles they had their rookie year.

I might be wrong, but to me, his play looks like someone who is not comfortable with what he is supposed to be doing yet. As an athlete, if you are thinking too much, it effects what you can do on the field. (reason #1 why my golf game usually sucks).

I understand the point of view that people would rather have Bush or Young or wish there was a trade partner for trading down, but putting all the blame on this horrible defense on a rookie seems to be a bit of a witchhunt.
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Great post, I agree for the most part. Mario looks way green at this point, and I think he was expected to have more savvy for the game right off the bat because he was selected so high in the draft. Mario's looked good busting into the backfield a few times, but he's been doing it in the wrong places/times. If that's a lack of experience and not a lack of instincts, then we don't have much to worry about yet. On the one hand he looks like he's not comfortable yet which can really impact a player's game, but then he hasn't done anything yet to show us that he does have the instincts to dominate in this league.

People can say we were stupid for passing up Reggie, but I don't think there's a foundation for debating that Mario always looked to be a bust. If Reggie was the consensus #1 pick, Mario was the consensus #1 defensive player, head and shoulders above AJ Hawk. Mario may never live up to Reggie's hype, but if he doesn't become a good player on his own merits then he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, not just Kubiak/Casserly's.
 
Texan1 said:
OK, and they won b/c the Texas kicker (Pino) made a 1st qtr field goal and the punter didn't fumble every snap. But Vince won that game bro.
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You wanna belittle what I said that's cool. Vince played a big part in the win I can admit that, but the guy didn't win the game. Texas won the game, will he be a solid player yes, maybe, but what about those around him. Tennessee doesn't look to good right now. Throw in Vince and I can almost guarantee he'll loose more than he'll win. If and I'm kinda hoping they don't, they surround him with better talent later on and he begins winning will it be because he's a winner or because he had solid talent added around him? Say what you want about the guy he may be great, but saying he's a winner doesn't mean anything if the team around him is a looser.
 
Texan1 said:
Really? Tons of "winners" who won NC championships on their own and were "exposed". Maybe I'm missing somehting - but I don't recall any. So yes, name a few...
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Are you saying QB's who won NCAA championships and didn't produce in the NFL? Just off the top of my head (some of these didn't win championships but were very close):

Gino Torretta (2 championships), Ken Dorsey (1), Danny Wuerffel (1), Rodney Peete, Chris Wenke (1), Danny Kannell, Casey Weldon, Shane Matthews, Rick Mirer (no championship as a starter), Eric Crouch (Heismann), Steve Walsh (1), Tommie Frazier (2), Tony Rice (1)...

I think most of those guys were big winners at their colleges, most won at least 1 NCAA championship, and they didn't produce at all (or at least, not alot) in the pros.
 
I like the Mario pick, still do.

Bush had 2 att from the ATL 2 and was stuffed twice.

VY can't even dethrone Kerry friggin Collins.
 
I like the pick for Mario, I liked it before it was a pick, when we were just considering him. I think he is little more of a project than you would want for a no. 1 pick but we tried to trade down and failed. I also think for different reasons he was a defensive version of bush. A player you dont wanna pass up, a once in a decade package of physical ability. what I see on the field now is a guy that wants to excell but hasnt learned yet how to apply those physical gifts at the pro level. I think he is an explosion waiting to happen. he thinks too much because he wants to succeed and make everyone proud. but his thinking is what is stopping him from showing us what he can do. He will explode though. maybe next game, maybe 5 weeks from now. but it will happen and I for one am glad it will be as a Texan.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Are you serious. Maybe you didn't watch the game, but I remember the most important play as being the fourth and two. Where USC was stopped. You know who was in on that play. Not Young and Not Bush. However that was the decisive play of the game. Texas doesn't win without that play which was made by the defense, so don't give us that Vince is the reason they won.
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an offensive genius decides to take the riskier of two options...... Punt..... which most people would do. Or go for it & give up a short field to the guy you are afraid will lead his offensive unit to a touchdown even if you pinned him(& the offensive unit) down to the two yard line.......

If you had DannyWeurffell(& I liked Danny)...... playing for Texas, or Major Applewhite for that matter..... it would have been a totally different decision, and a totally different outcome.

When people say VinceYoung won that game, they don't mean you can take the other 10 guys off the field, and there would still be a victory. They mean the University of Texas won that game because Vince Young was a big part of the two scores in the last 6 minutes of the game that put UT ahead of USC on the scoreboard.

arguing about it is just silly.
 
thunderkyss said:
Philly let T.O. go.... Tampa let Keyshawn go.

The Titans let McNair go, and the Chargers let Drew Brees go.........

I don't know why people do the things they do. but how are you going to tell me the man can't go for 4 Qtrs, when I quote you the play by play in the 4th Qtr, where he is pretty successfull.
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That was 2 carries! WOW!! 16yds. What happened with the rest of the drive? He tends to disappear, kinda like Mario, you know. Face the truth dude...we have no running game.
 
Barkley said:
Still confident that this guy will ever be able to play? He SUCKS along with the rest of this crapola team. At least if we had Bush or Vince we would have something to look forward to this season. Now we can look forward to the first or second pick in the 2007 draft....thats it. We may be competitive by 2008
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Well from what I saw today Mario looks like he can play. What did "you know who" do today? Yep so good day, good bye, and good riddance(sp?).
 
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