Wolf said:
I'm not saying he didn't.......... just saying you can't blame anyone other than the QB for taking a sack from the shotgun.
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When the going gets tough: Put in Sage, Pull Carr
- Thread starter TwinSisters
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I'm not saying he didn't.......... just saying you can't blame anyone other than the QB for taking a sack from the shotgun.
TwinSisters
Veteran
CajunTexan said:
No Brady is in the top ten for the hard stats of 4th Quarter comebacks. 13-8 with a good share of them in the post season. He just didn't have enough situations to overcome to place up there with Kent Graham!
So Wolf...if I had to guess with out the numbers in front of me... I would think the Patriots and the Steelers had the most 4th Quarter games, since Bledsoe lost a whopping 61 of them since 1996.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
thunderkyss said:
That's absurd. The shotgun generally screams to the D, hey this is a passing play pin your ears back. In the meantime it does nothing to get the WR's into their routes and open faster. It also, in contrast to a designed roll out, does not put the QB out of the pocket such that the ball can be thrown away without an intentional grounding penalty. 11 of Peyton's 17 sacks last year came from the shotgun, 9 of 13 sacks the year before. Every QB in the league takes sacks from the shotgun and they aren't all just too stupid to figure out that it should never happen.
TwinSisters
Veteran
thunderkyss said:
yeah Mr.Thunderkyss, that's a losing battle. I would just take a knee and punt on that one. The Shotgun has had critics that date back to the day it started with Red Hickey. Some guys can do it and a lot can't.
Have you checked the immigration staus of said monkeys, and shouldn't there have been some progression in the shotgun offense since its inception? Also,TwinSisters said:
what are your thoughts on a hit and run type offense for the Texans and can Eric Moulds be the base stealer Phil "I'm a Kubiak Fan" Garner thinks he should be? Should Zidane be considered as a free agent aquisition/team captain for the Texans in light of Frances unlikely advance to the finals in the World Cup? Dos the World Cup even matter? Is the 7 hour time difference in allowable drinking hours showing? Try being in France when they lose the World Cup.
TwinSisters
Veteran
DocBar said:
There has.. it's called the spread and the run'n'shoot. And all three suffer from the same criticism: that it gives up too many sacks.
Yet with the right guys it always seems to work well... Starbach, Moon, Elway, Favre, etc.
http://www.packersnews.com/welcome/to/pack_1326618.shtml
even did it with "hands of stone" Corey Bradford.
But what about the monkey's? And only Moon ran an authentic version of the "chuck and duck". Well, maybe that Houston guy who defected to Buffalo did. What is his name? If he's not a Hall of Famer, he should be. Great passer.TwinSisters said:
Oh yeah...Jim Kelly. Everyone else did it halfway at best.
Hulk75
Veteran
Matt Haselback sucks to I guess.TwinSisters said:
PLEASE PEOPLE take in the fact what the guy has had to work with, will you do me that next time you try to act like this guy has had it just as good as some other QBs in the NFL.
I have an idea lets just put up all Joe Montanas records and compare them to Carrs.
Hulk75
Veteran
You cant?...............Give me a break, it is almost too funny with some of the stuff I read here.thunderkyss said:
Let me put it this way, I just started up playing football again, playing DE. The team we played yesterday had a guy in the Shotgun!!!!!! I jumped the snap, the LT barely got out of his stance, Got my sack IN A SHOTGUN fromation, and that is the QBs fault for only having 2 seconds to throw the ball? AND WE were pressing as well, he had no chance, it was NOT his fault.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
I disagree. I would rather start Sage and take my chances. Carr is terrible. The sooner this franchise realizes this, the better off we will all be.
bigtex77
Waterboy
swtbound07 said:
We won't know if Carr is terrible until after this season, now that he has weapons around him and (hopefully) a better offensive line. I am not a big Carr fan, but at the same time I would love to see the Carr haters stand in his shoes for a few games and get their heads taken off repeatedly. Let me put it this way: Carr, Sage, hell even Brady or Manning, take your pick and put them behind the same line and with the same weapons (or lack thereof) that David's had for four years and you get basically the same result - losses.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
Cry me a river with the hard life Carr has led as an NFL quarterback. I already know he is terrible...I had 4 years of watching him to know that. You might want to give him more time, I don't. Every quarterback in the nfl doesn't get gift wrapped a great set of circumstances. Let me put it this way. At his salary, with his performance, he is the most overpaid player in the NFL.
Wolf
100% Texan
swtbound07 said:
what would you all 200+ sacks over the years (yes we can debate all day long about if it is his fault or the OL fault).
you tell me another QB could perform with the pass blocking that our team has had?
and yes based on stats, one could say he is getting paid more than what he should
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Wolf said:
I dont care WHY he didnt win....I care that he didn't. He got sacked a lot. So what. You dont KNOW that he can perform with weapons. Im saying 5 years in the NFL is too long to hang the "potential" tag on somebody. Yes, I would rather start Sage. At least I dont KNOW he can't win. And the point is not whether peyton or vick or anyone else COULD have performed here either. We'll never know. You dont know how those qb's would have done, its a pointless hypothetical. What you do know, is what Carr did....or more accurately DIDNT do.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
What has he done to EARN the right to start for a 5th year for the Texans.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
Yes I do....he has had ample opportunity.....4 seasons worth, and that IS a fact. Fine....dont say he "can't" win, since future prediction is impossible.....lets just say he DOESNT win. That I can prove.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Hulk75 said:
All right... all things being equal. It's the 4th Quarter and you are down by one score. You make the call.
Do you A: Insert Joe Montana?
or
B: Leave David Carr in command and sit peacefully sipping your cold beer knowing that the game is surely won.
---
Doc on Jim Kelly.. the thing about him is that I remember him mostly for his no huddle command and Thurman Thomas made his run-n-shoot work. ( the Gamblers period would be different, but to tell you the truth I cannot remember a single USFL game!!! )
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
Being a tackling dummy doesn't earn you anything in my book. I don't want to waste a "sympathy season" on Carr because he got hit a lot. He hasn't done anything, hasn't had a winning season, hasn't shown much during the season to make me think his performance was anybody's fault but his, and hasn't earned anything. He gets gift wrapped a large contract extension, and everybody around here is pretending we are okay with him as our qb when we have been repeatedly shown we are not. Start Sage.
Wolf
100% Texan
swtbound07 said:
you don't know if he has EARNED the right to start year 5, Kubiak is deciding that when TC starts. and yes more than likely David will start but I do recall Kubiak saying no one is getting a free pass (see TJ).
To me in the Capers era, they should have benched Carr when he struggled, just to get Banks in to give Carr some game film to study from Banks (whether good or bad) who was an experienced NFL QB.
At this point I trust Kubiak isn't going to make the same mistake. we wouldn't have had this discussion after the 2004 season,because It is almost safe to say everyone was pleased with the progression Carr was making
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Wolf said:
Its not safe to say that....I dont know if you feel like archive digging, but I've been down on Carr for quite some time. Carr is being given a free pass by everyone on this board and i can't for the life of me understand why
bigtex77
Waterboy
swtbound07 said:
That's my point, an "ample" opportunity to what? Get killed? OK David,
1) Here's the worst o-line in the league
2) AJ (oh never mind the fact that he's double covered, you'll never have time to get the ball off anyway)
3) Corey (Hands of Steel) Bradford
Good luck.
Thats like sendiing Lance Armstrong to the Tour de France with a tri-cycle and then saying he sucks because he doesn't win.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
Excuses. Im tired of excuses for david carr.
Wolf
100% Texan
my honest opinion on Carr, if Kubiak can't turn him around, and with the talent we have added, then noone can
Carr can make all the throws (see videos that are posted on website), yet Kubiak has to get into his head and get him to make the right reads and make them fast..
I can give the offense and defense some leadway early in the season due to all new schemes, but if Carr regresses with kubiak leading the way, I'll agree with you 100 percent
It would stink ,but I'd be petitioning for Quinn
Carr can make all the throws (see videos that are posted on website), yet Kubiak has to get into his head and get him to make the right reads and make them fast..
I can give the offense and defense some leadway early in the season due to all new schemes, but if Carr regresses with kubiak leading the way, I'll agree with you 100 percent
It would stink ,but I'd be petitioning for Quinn
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hulk75 said:
Theoretically the shotgun is supposed to give the QB an extra split second to read the D..........that "extra" time goes right out the window when the OL is facing the D secondary instead of the DL..:brickwall
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
The NFL isn't fair. I dont believe he deserves a "fair" chance. I want a qb that wins, and could care less about carr or his feelings or hardship. He controlled his destiny, he took the snaps, he dictated the results. He didn't win. No sympathy over here.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
He convinced Kubiak (and several other coaches) that he should be his starter.
That's all it takes.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
The Pencil Neck said:
Yippy. Kubiak gets a paycheck and we get another sub .500 season. You satisfied with that? Im not.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
"It is almost safe to say everyone was pleased with the progression Carr was making"
Why is it that so few people remember that the 2nd half of 2004 was not good for Carr or the Texans, ending with that horrendous game against the Browns? Carr had more INT's than TD's the 2nd half and we only beat 1 team with a winning record all year (Jags twice)--other 5 victories were against losing teams including the Titans (twice), which means we only beat 3 other teams besides the Jags and Titans.
Why is it that so few people remember that the 2nd half of 2004 was not good for Carr or the Texans, ending with that horrendous game against the Browns? Carr had more INT's than TD's the 2nd half and we only beat 1 team with a winning record all year (Jags twice)--other 5 victories were against losing teams including the Titans (twice), which means we only beat 3 other teams besides the Jags and Titans.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
bigtex77 said:
That refers to my work in the no-spin zone......I legitimately think Carr is garbage.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
The Pencil Neck said:
IMO, McNair is the reason Carr is starting. PERIOD.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Hulk75 said:Yes for the 2,000,000,000 time we understand, maybe you should write a letter and tell how much you HATE.......oooppps I mean tell them how much you dis-like him.
I plan on being a bastion for my position over the offseason Hulk....for every pro-carr post, for every "lets give our buddy carr another chance" post, I'll be there as a counter-view. Its my dedication. You can say hate...I don't mind. I imagine I will sound like a broken record over the next few months...but remember what I said about the draft...it applies here too. Once kickoff starts, I cheer for ALL the Texans. But in the offseason....Carr=overrated.
Hulk75
Veteran
Okay great I really dont care, I just dont know were all the hate comes from, has nothing to do with football, come on now, hate suck garbage idiot...........come on man you can show a little respect to the guy...........I mean what if the guy goes off and and becomes a pro bowler and a Super Bowl Champion, then were does that leave all your comments? I mean there are NFL coaches over at Reliant that think he will be.swtbound07 said:
Give respect to get respect..............
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
IMO, there are 2 primary areas in the passing game that Carr has not mastered-- (1) reading the defense and (2) getting rid of the ball. For whatever reason, Carr came to the pro level without several asapects of the pro game he should have already been doing automatically, like not locking onto his receiver and not running out of bounds with the ball. I still do not understand why the team waste so much of the play clock in the huddle, instead of getting to the line of scrimage to read the defense. How much is the slow reaction to read, react, and throw Carr's fault?
OK, so we improve the pass blocking plus move Carr around to help avoid the rush-we get the TE's involved in the passing game as well as the FB, and we add a #2 WR plus new faces at #3 and #4. Now, instead of a couple reads for Carr, we add several more. Does this mean he will now be able to do what he has never done before? Read. Find. React. Throw...
OK, so we improve the pass blocking plus move Carr around to help avoid the rush-we get the TE's involved in the passing game as well as the FB, and we add a #2 WR plus new faces at #3 and #4. Now, instead of a couple reads for Carr, we add several more. Does this mean he will now be able to do what he has never done before? Read. Find. React. Throw...
have not MASTERED.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
You really think that Kubiak is getting paid for sub 500 seasons? I don't.
Personally, given the talent on this team, the best I expect this year is 8-8 and I don't care WHO's the QB. I'll be happy with over 5 wins this year. I expect a winning season next year.
The bottom line is that it hasn't been David Carr that's been losing all these games. Games aren't won or lost by the QB. They're won and lost by the team. Until we have a team that plays as a team, we're not going to be winners.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hulk75 said:
Exactly the opposite..........I'm agreeing with you. If the OL isn't holding the the DL, it means the DL is already in the back field, leaving the OL looking unobstructed at the D secondary. In other words the OL's been beaten and hasn't given the extra time to the QB.............thus leading to the sack of the poor schmuck with the ball in his hands.
Wolf
100% Texan
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=24022
has some links on it with Carr
has some links on it with Carr
Hulk75
Veteran
Okay I just did not understand the way you put it before.CloakNNNdagger said:Exactly the opposite..........I'm agreeing with you. If the OL isn't holding the the DL, it means the DL is already in the back field, leaving the OL looking unobstructed at the D secondary. In other words the OL's been beaten and hasn't given the extra time to the QB.............thus leading to the sack of the poor schmuck with the ball in his hands.
