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When the going gets tough: Put in Sage, Pull Carr

thunderkyss said:
we're lucky he still has his legs, and no concussions.....
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Yes, that is a testament to Carr's toughness and resolve, but it still doesn't mean that we should have benched him for the final 13 games of the season just to sacrifice our other two QBs. You have to keep playing him in the belief that something will improve in there. If you concede the season and bench your franchise QB then you're sealing your pink slip at the end of the year, if you have any interest in winning as many games as possible and ultimately keeping your job then you put your best players and best team on the field, and David Carr was the best QB for us. Once the previous staff started realizing they were likely losing their job at the end of the year, what do they care about preserving Carr's future health for a new coaching staff and tanking games in the process vs. trying to get something positive out of the end of the season and help them find a job the next year?
 
MorKnolle said:
Are you kidding? He threw 2 INTs that cost us the game against by far the worst defense in the league.
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At least he threw for a TD and almost 200 yards.

Carr was 4/11 for 23 yards against the worst defense in the league.

Who had a better game?
 
chuckm said:
we all remember that game ...... something about a Hanukkah party comes to mind .....
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Dang Chuckie, good memory. Maybe during this year's Hanukkah party we will be watching the Texans' first Hebrew player lead them to victory.

Seriously though, Carr was horrible at the end of last year (the JAX game excluded). Blame Capers or Pendry or McKenney or whoever you want, but the guy was simply pathetic.
 
the wonger need food said:
Dang Chuckie, good memory. Maybe during this year's Hanukkah party we will be watching the Texans' first Hebrew player lead them to victory.

Seriously though, Carr was horrible at the end of last year (the JAX game excluded). Blame Capers or Pendry or McKenney or whoever you want, but the guy was simply pathetic.
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"Monkey see monkey do" is hopefully what happened.:rolleyes:
 
the wonger need food said:
Seriously though, Carr was horrible at the end of last year (the JAX game excluded). Blame Capers or Pendry or McKenney or whoever you want, but the guy was simply pathetic.
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Don't worry wonger, everything is going to be just fine.

The coaches went to camp with specific goals, and one was to take a close look at the progress quarterback David Carr has made in a system that has added shorter drops and quicker releases.

"I think David's ready to take his game to the next level," offensive coordinator Chris Palmer said. "He has a better command of the offense. He's got a sense of urgency. He expects to win."

The primary goal on offense is to keep Carr from becoming the most-sacked quarterback in the NFL for the third time in four years.

"Every day, you can see how much more comfortable and confident David is," Palmer said. "His teammates see it, too.
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See?

We have changed the system. It's sorta like playing Russian roulette... there are only like 3 systems left that we haven't tried, so by the time I turn 80 BANG!!! Carr should have reached the next level.

Which is really good because then I get handicap parking and seating to see it.
 
thunderkyss said:
Wow....... Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, and Kordell Stewart rated in the top ten....

yet none of them are gauranteed starters..... heck, two of the three will definitely not start.

In all fairness to Carr...... as many comeback situations he's been in is probalby diluting his stats.
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And the one that will start is Brooks and he is not known for smarts... raw talent and Joe Horn for the last 8 years.
 
Vambo said:
And the one that will start is Brooks and he is not known for smarts... raw talent and Joe Horn for the last 8 years.
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Brooks will have Moss though. So that might be considered an upgrade, since Moss supposedly saved Culpepper, Tice, Red, Whiz, and the rest of the Vikings from the #1 draft spot. ( and beat the Packers at Lambeau in the playoffs during the winter with a gimp leg.. along with having a bad hair day )
 
thunderkyss said:
Hindsight is always 20/20......... but looking back, it's still a bit fuzzy


but I totally agree... setting a sack record after the first year, should've told somebody something.
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yeah, hindsight can be 20/20...but I recall many folks questioning the decision to obtain a QB as our first overall pick of the draft. And I recall quite a few people questioning the decision to start him right off the bat, too.

There has always been an on-going debate regarding starting vs. benching rookie QB's. Only that particular debate is usually reserved for teams that have been established and have some history of running an offense.

It doesn't really take a football genius to figure out that an untested o-line that has never played together could be hazardous to the QB's health. Obviously, 200+ sacks later, there was wisdom in them thar hills.
 
Double Barrel said:
yeah, hindsight can be 20/20...but I recall many folks questioning the decision to obtain a QB as our first overall pick of the draft. And I recall quite a few people questioning the decision to start him right off the bat, too.

There has always been an on-going debate regarding starting vs. benching rookie QB's. Only that particular debate is usually reserved for teams that have been established and have some history of running an offense.

It doesn't really take a football genius to figure out that an untested o-line that has never played together could be hazardous to the QB's health. Obviously, 200+ sacks later, there was wisdom in them thar hills.
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Outstanding post. If I could have said it better, I would have.
 
edo783 said:
Soooo, I guess this is another of those Carr threads that are constantly started by all the Carr lovers as KT keeps saying is what happens all the time. Couldn't POSSIBLY be a "Let's start one to be able to take a shot at Carr thread". Nah, no one starts those, just always those pesky Carr lovers gushing about that piece of road apples QB, and a certain band of folks has to maintain world balance by responding. Yup, guess that's what is happening.
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TwinSisters posts some great stuff.....but I don't know if that counts as a "Carr lover." Have you checked previous posts to make this opinion?
 
bayoudreamn said:
I read the names. Sometimes, stats can not only be manipulated, but they are completely worthless. Every great element of a story isn't written in the book.
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Stats can be like polls. A snapshot in time to be manipulted by whomever uses them.
 
DocBar said:
After all of the revelations about the prvious regime, I find that argument hard to follow. Banks did ok when he was in and we never saw Rgone in the NFL did we? Ragone tore up the Europe league. I think they should have pulled him several time because the only continuity they preserved was pain, punishment and demoralization of Carr and the team in general. Hell, Bradshaw and Staubach were benched more than once in their careers.
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I can't imagine how people consider Banks to be an ok starter or backup. The guy sucks!
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Simply do an advanced search and you will find that there have been hardly any Carr threads started as of late. They just have a long life. The problem is with non Carr threads that turn into Carr threads. Nah, that would be too much work to look into.
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Does get old doesn't it? LOL
 
bayoudreamn said:
I can't imagine how people consider Banks to be an ok starter or backup. The guy sucks!
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LMAO, me either. All I was saying is that I would rather see those guys get pounded rather than Carr. I didn't say we would WIN those games, just save the wear and tear on a quality guy who now has a system he can sink or breaststroke like hell in.
 
thunderkyss said:
I totally agree, but I would add..... after three games into the season, it should've been obvious to the coaching staff, that we had some protection issues......... I'd have pulled Carr, and thrown Banks/Ragone in there. Sure, we still managed to be competitive in many games last year, and would have lost that, but leaving Carr in to get sacked 68 times, is stupid, regardless whose fault it is. We're Damn lucky he didn't get hurt too badly.
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You're asking for a lot of common sense from the former staff. Isn't that setting expectations a bit too high?
 
bayoudreamn said:
You're asking for a lot of common sense from the former staff. Isn't that setting expectations a bit too high?
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Failure, for them, was an opportunity to try the same old crap they did with the Panthers, minus the key vets and cap room.
 
bayoudreamn said:
Does get old doesn't it? LOL
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It sure does, but that is what the market unfortunatley wants when there is nothing else to talk about.

Hopefully the new staff, revamped line, Moulds, Putzier, Flanagan, Walter, Cook, Spencer and Winston wil help our starting QB.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Or Bledsoe or Brunell.
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All talented QBs.....Palmer isn't. Can't really say that he's proven himself. I've watched him for years and I haven't been impressed. I think he has alot of football knowledge but he doesn't seem to get the power to the wheels....jmo
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It sure does, but that is what the market unfortunatley wants when there is nothing else to talk about.

Hopefully the new staff, revamped line, Moulds, Putzier, Flanagan, Walter, Cook, Spencer and Winston wil help our starting QB.
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Who is Cook? It's not the guy from South Park, is it? I love that guy.
 
bayoudreamn said:
All talented QBs.....Palmer isn't. Can't really say that he's proven himself. I've watched him for years and I haven't been impressed. I think he has alot of football knowledge but he doesn't seem to get the power to the wheels....jmo
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I was referring to Chris Palmer rubbing off on Couch and Carr.
 
bayoudreamn said:
I can't imagine how people consider Banks to be an ok starter or backup. The guy sucks!
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Some people are quick to forget that 7-9 season in which Banks heavily contributed to, in a positive way. You know, that season everyone pointed to when they thought we were on the verge of turning things around. He was OK when he was in, certainly no worse than Carr. As far as no NFL team wanting him now, he's probably still better than most NFL backups, just old.
 
bayoudreamn said:
but I don't know if that counts as a "Carr lover." Have you checked previous posts to make this opinion?
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I am currently a card holding member of Carr Lovers Anonymous. 4 Years ago I took my first drink. He was, in my opinion, the best bottle on the shelf... at that time. Since then there has been a picture of Dave on my wall that is 6 to 10 times larger than my own mother. This image of his hangs with some of the greatest Texans that have ever lived ( Baugh, Earl, Sam, Jack Johnson ), and even some foreigners.

( and yes patrons that visit my humble abode chuckle when they see Carr hanging amongst the others... we shall see )

But that was 4 years ago. After watching this guy bumble around for 4 seasons straight, it's enough to sober up even the staunchest Irishman, the stoutest Scot, and the most tenacious German. Even a Kennedy would stop drinking for a day if they had to sit through a Texans game with him at the helm.

I afford him some time to grow some hair on his chest so to speak, but it's at the point where he needs to start to putting some licks down or ship out to California ( where they appreciate having good looking boys laying around the pool doing nothing but soaking up the sun ).

On stats and what they tell:
It's true that in football stats are incredibly slippery. For myself, the summer is when I spend most of my spare time digging through them to see what is going on without any games to watch. This particular guy at Football Outsiders didn't set out to finger Carr for a boob, he was looking to see if the 4th quarter comeback tag fits with the stats.

For me that didn't look good at all for Carr. He sits at the bottom of a bunch of QBs since 1996 that had a one score chance to tip a game from a lose to a win and didn't do it. That's a lot of QBs, games, and a lot of losers to get lumped together with.

Is it a be all end all stat that condemns Carr to Gifford Neilsen purgatory? No, it is not. But it is another dent in Houston's knight in shining armour that needs to be ironed out.

Sure it is just my opinion and I am cool with that. I sit at the opposite end of the table from you cats that are happy with a 'just good enough' QB. That's just not my flavour. I like ass kickin QB with some pop in them that can tilt the field just by looking at it.
---

For those folks that don't know Giff ( he's a nice wonderful person... a great person indeed, but a black hole in the pocket that could suck out the light of victory from the sun itself )

http://www.cougarclub.com/hall_of_fame/nielsen_g.html

---

Also for those fellas that think Carr needs to be cuddled like a little baby, come on now... the guy made enough dough to put his entire family through med school before he even touched a Texans' ball. More then several doctors make in a several lifetimes working in some God forsaken jungles in South America fighting off mosquitoes that could carry away his entire family in one night. He doesn't need to be cuddled.

Besides that he called Mario a "kid". That's says enough right there.
 
TwinSisters said:
I am currently a card holding member of Carr Lovers Anonymous. 4 Years ago I took my first drink. He was, in my opinion, the best bottle on the shelf... at that time. Since then there has been a picture of Dave on my wall that is 6 to 10 times larger than my own mother. This image of his hangs with some of the greatest Texans that have ever lived ( Baugh, Earl, Sam, Jack Johnson ), and even some foreigners.

( and yes patrons that visit my humble abode chuckle when they see Carr hanging amongst the others... we shall see )

But that was 4 years ago. After watching this guy bumble around for 4 seasons straight, it's enough to sober up even the staunchest Irishman, the stoutest Scot, and the most tenacious German. Even a Kennedy would stop drinking for a day if they had to sit through a Texans game with him at the helm.

I afford him some time to grow some hair on his chest so to speak, but it's at the point where he needs to start to putting some licks down or ship out to California ( where they appreciate having good looking boys laying around the pool doing nothing but soaking up the sun ).

On stats and what they tell:
It's true that in football stats are incredibly slippery. For myself, the summer is when I spend most of my spare time digging through them to see what is going on without any games to watch. This particular guy at Football Outsiders didn't set out to finger Carr for a boob, he was looking to see if the 4th quarter comeback tag fits with the stats.

For me that didn't look good at all for Carr. He sits at the bottom of a bunch of QBs since 1996 that had a one score chance to tip a game from a lose to a win and didn't do it. That's a lot of QBs, games, and a lot of losers to get lumped together with.

Is it a be all end all stat that condemns Carr to Gifford Neilsen purgatory? No, it is not. But it is another dent in Houston's knight in shining armour that needs to be ironed out.

Sure it is just my opinion and I am cool with that. I sit at the opposite end of the table from you cats that are happy with a 'just good enough' QB. That's just not my flavour. I like ass kickin QB with some pop in them that can tilt the field just by looking at it.
---

For those folks that don't know Giff ( he's a nice wonderful person... a great person indeed, but a black hole in the pocket that could suck out the light of victory from the sun itself )

http://www.cougarclub.com/hall_of_fame/nielsen_g.html

---

Also for those fellas that think Carr needs to be cuddled like a little baby, come on now... the guy made enough dough to put his entire family through med school before he even touched a Texans' ball. More then several doctors make in a several lifetimes working in some God forsaken jungles in South America fighting off mosquitoes that could carry away his entire family in one night. He doesn't need to be cuddled.

Besides that he called Mario a "kid". That's says enough right there.
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LOL....I guess they don't need to look at old posts now. That oughta "get 'er done"
 
TwinSisters said:
I am currently a card holding member of Carr Lovers Anonymous. 4 Years ago I took my first drink. He was, in my opinion, the best bottle on the shelf... at that time. Since then there has been a picture of Dave on my wall that is 6 to 10 times larger than my own mother. This image of his hangs with some of the greatest Texans that have ever lived ( Baugh, Earl, Sam, Jack Johnson ), and even some foreigners.

( and yes patrons that visit my humble abode chuckle when they see Carr hanging amongst the others... we shall see )

But that was 4 years ago. After watching this guy bumble around for 4 seasons straight, it's enough to sober up even the staunchest Irishman, the stoutest Scot, and the most tenacious German. Even a Kennedy would stop drinking for a day if they had to sit through a Texans game with him at the helm.

I afford him some time to grow some hair on his chest so to speak, but it's at the point where he needs to start to putting some licks down or ship out to California ( where they appreciate having good looking boys laying around the pool doing nothing but soaking up the sun ).

On stats and what they tell:
It's true that in football stats are incredibly slippery. For myself, the summer is when I spend most of my spare time digging through them to see what is going on without any games to watch. This particular guy at Football Outsiders didn't set out to finger Carr for a boob, he was looking to see if the 4th quarter comeback tag fits with the stats.

For me that didn't look good at all for Carr. He sits at the bottom of a bunch of QBs since 1996 that had a one score chance to tip a game from a lose to a win and didn't do it. That's a lot of QBs, games, and a lot of losers to get lumped together with.

Is it a be all end all stat that condemns Carr to Gifford Neilsen purgatory? No, it is not. But it is another dent in Houston's knight in shining armour that needs to be ironed out.

Sure it is just my opinion and I am cool with that. I sit at the opposite end of the table from you cats that are happy with a 'just good enough' QB. That's just not my flavour. I like ass kickin QB with some pop in them that can tilt the field just by looking at it.
---

For those folks that don't know Giff ( he's a nice wonderful person... a great person indeed, but a black hole in the pocket that could suck out the light of victory from the sun itself )

http://www.cougarclub.com/hall_of_fame/nielsen_g.html

---

Also for those fellas that think Carr needs to be cuddled like a little baby, come on now... the guy made enough dough to put his entire family through med school before he even touched a Texans' ball. More then several doctors make in a several lifetimes working in some God forsaken jungles in South America fighting off mosquitoes that could carry away his entire family in one night. He doesn't need to be cuddled.

Besides that he called Mario a "kid". That's says enough right there.
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btw....though I don't think you took it personally......it wasn't personal. I've seen your post. You aren't a hater.....but you aren't a "Carr lover." Before I get labeled either way.....my opinion is based on the fact that we've had a problem with the entire offense for four years. That shouldn't be blamed on one person. It was obviously a team effort.

The quarterback pay debate is a league debate. Every NFL quarterback makes a mint. It's a moot point as long as people spend the $$$ they spend on NFL products and tickets. We can cry foul all day....it does no good.
 
bayoudreamn said:
TwinSisters posts some great stuff.....but I don't know if that counts as a "Carr lover." Have you checked previous posts to make this opinion?
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Sorry, it seems a couple of folks have mis-interpreted my sarcasim. I was pointing out that some who keep starting threads that wind up being Carr debats are accused of being the "Carr lovers" when IMO, a great many wind up being Carr threads because a certain group of folks just can't resist taking a slap at Carr on virtually every post they make, and then Booom, off goes a perfectly good football conversation about anything else but Carr into a Pro Vs Con Carr thread. I see a great many threads started by those elements that are disingenouse in nature, just to draw the fire storm so they can again make deroggetory remarks while others are trying to have a Texans/football conversation and wind up getting the thread highjacked. The interesting thing is that it is usually the same 6 or so very prolific posters. So, in the final, this isn't a pro Carr started thread, but rather one that was done to allow a forum for a certain element to again whinn and moan about Carr.
 
I was with ya right up to the Kennedy part. That's just silly!!!! A Kennedy would KILL to keep drinking. Watching Carr is nowhere near THAT bad.
 
Honch Delgado said:
Some people are quick to forget that 7-9 season in which Banks heavily contributed to, in a positive way. You know, that season everyone pointed to when they thought we were on the verge of turning things around. He was OK when he was in, certainly no worse than Carr. As far as no NFL team wanting him now, he's probably still better than most NFL backups, just old.
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What did Banks heavily contribute to the 2004 season? He attempted two passes that year, one less than Jabar Gaffney did. He played a decent amount in 2003 when the Texans went 5-11.
 
MorKnolle said:
What did Banks heavily contribute to the 2004 season? He attempted two passes that year, one less than Jabar Gaffney did. He played a decent amount in 2003 when the Texans went 5-11.
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You are correct sir. Banks is credited with starting 3 games during the 2003 season with wins over Carolina and Atlanta and a loss to NE and saw action in losses to KC, Indy, and a win against Buffalo. I thought he played a stretch of games in the 04 season, but I was mistaken. Anyway I thought he was a serviceable backup, not starting material but good enough to control a game.
 
stats speaks for themselves.. but what frustrates me at times is it isn't fair to say Carr didn't get it done (all the time) on that.. I recall more than I would like where we are in shotgun and the defense gets to him with a four man rush before he has a chance to even set up... OL missed the assignment on that one.. killed the drive where is how many 3rd down and something in the forth quarted did a team pickup a key play being they had a huge am't of time to scan the whole field twice over

now is it all the offensive lines fault no, and yes Carr should shoulder some of the blame.. and IMO on key situations you have to have a threat at TE to be the QB's safety valve.


and yes stats can be spun around any which way..

with all that said.. does that site have a team 4th quarter combacks?
 
No, I don;t think Outsiders has a complete play-by-play log up to sort stuff like 4th quarter results for specific tasks. That particular article was a feature piece.

here's a good article on stats though
http://www.slate.com/id/2092863
2003

It features Schwartz from the Tennesse crew. I am looking at some stuff of his right now... I have been meaning to post some of it up, but I have been too lazy.

EDIT:

http://footballproject.com/

Once these guys get something up, then it's bean counters' heaven!!! 7 foot tall jar tears of joy!
 
Honch Delgado said:
You are correct sir. Banks is credited with starting 3 games during the 2003 season with wins over Carolina and Atlanta and a loss to NE and saw action in losses to KC, Indy, and a win against Buffalo. I thought he played a stretch of games in the 04 season, but I was mistaken. Anyway I thought he was a serviceable backup, not starting material but good enough to control a game.
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For me, I want a young QB with some experience.... I want someone who is working day in, and day out to be the starter. When he gets his chance to play, he knows what it would mean to his career if he plays well. & he knows he will have no excuses....... not Offensive line, not brick hands, not bad calls, none.

I didn't see that with Banks... Banks was happy being a back-up, and he should've been aware that he has no chance(if any) to ever be a starter. His Job was to fill a spot, until Carr got healthy again.....

Now I understand some folks wanting a seasoned vets to help us get wins in the event our primary option goes down. But in my mind, this seasoned vet needs to be someone who has experienced success in some way shape or form. Banks did not fill that role either.
 
Wolf said:
stats speaks for themselves.. but what frustrates me at times is it isn't fair to say Carr didn't get it done (all the time) on that.. I recall more than I would like where we are in shotgun and the defense gets to him with a four man rush before he has a chance to even set up... OL missed the assignment on that one.. killed the drive where is how many 3rd down and something in the forth quarted did a team pickup a key play being they had a huge am't of time to scan the whole field twice over

now is it all the offensive lines fault no, and yes Carr should shoulder some of the blame.. and IMO on key situations you have to have a threat at TE to be the QB's safety valve.


and yes stats can be spun around any which way..

with all that said.. does that site have a team 4th quarter combacks?
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So you've got Carr in the shotgun, and he doesn't even have time to set up....... are you sure about that?? Shotgun, he's already 7 yards behind the center, all he has to do is catch the ball, and raise it above his shoulders, and he's set up... are you saying he couldn't even do that?? that he didn't read the rush was infact coming?? that he still waited for someone to get open before he'd throw the ball??

I don't think that helps Carr's defense in any way.
 
Honch Delgado said:
You are correct sir. Banks is credited with starting 3 games during the 2003 season with wins over Carolina and Atlanta and a loss to NE and saw action in losses to KC, Indy, and a win against Buffalo. I thought he played a stretch of games in the 04 season, but I was mistaken. Anyway I thought he was a serviceable backup, not starting material but good enough to control a game.
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Just FYI--Banks left the Atlanta game with the Texans behind. Carr came in during the time period the Texans won the game.
 
You are correct sir. Banks is credited with starting 3 games during the 2003 season with wins over Carolina and Atlanta and a loss to NE and saw action in losses to KC, Indy, and a win against Buffalo. I thought he played a stretch of games in the 04 season, but I was mistaken. Anyway I thought he was a serviceable backup, not starting material but good enough to control a game.
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just some more FYI, that was also the year that Carolina and NE went to the superbowl, and we lost to NE, in OT.

Banks played both Superbowl attendee's, beat one, played the other to OT, and did it on a team that a #1 draft pick QB couldn't get but 4 other wins out of the entire season with. :rolleyes:

Sage needs to be ready, cause Kubiak won't put up with Carr's bad playing on a personal level, like the old regime did.
 
thegr8fan said:
just some more FYI, that was also the year that Carolina and NE went to the superbowl, and we lost to NE, in OT.

Banks played both Superbowl attendee's, beat one, played the other to OT, and did it on a team that a #1 draft pick QB couldn't get but 4 other wins out of the entire season with. :rolleyes:

Sage needs to be ready, cause Kubiak won't put up with Carr's bad playing on a personal level, like the old regime did.
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I'm still amazed that it took Capers 4 full season to finally bench Carr. And I wonder if it was intentionally his last statement as the head coach.

I have a feeling that Rosenslice is going to take some meaningful snaps this season. I hope that's not the case, but Carr's history of terrible performances makes it almost inevitable.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you've got Carr in the shotgun, and he doesn't even have time to set up....... are you sure about that?? Shotgun, he's already 7 yards behind the center, all he has to do is catch the ball, and raise it above his shoulders, and he's set up... are you saying he couldn't even do that?? that he didn't read the rush was infact coming?? that he still waited for someone to get open before he'd throw the ball??

I don't think that helps Carr's defense in any way.
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did you watch any games.. I have seen him get hit in that formation. on a 4 man rush mind you
I
 
The problem with the shotgun could have been many different things. It's not going to solve anything as far as Carr is concerned ( or to be more precise reveal a fallacy or a strength )

Changes in the line could have blown the plays, crowd noise, poor snap, or even Carr not feeling comfortable and not being able to read fast enough.

Q: It seems like you guys don't use the shotgun very much. Is that correct?

MS: I don't think so. We use it quite a bit. Maybe not as much as we did with John [Elway] because John always liked to be in it. On third down situations I think we've been in it quite a bit.

Q: What are the pros and cons of using the shotgun?

MS: The positives are you get a chance to separate yourself from the defenders so if there is a blitz the quarterback has a little extra time to get rid of the football. You have a little extra separation from the offensive line to read the coverage. The negative is there's not as big a threat in the running game when you're in the shotgun.

Q: Is there a key to the shotgun formation as a quarterback?

MS: Well I think you see the field a little bit better. Tom does a great job of getting the ball and surveying the ball. A lot of quarterbacks can get a snap and not even look at the ball and get a little separation from the line of scrimmage and gets him a little half second to a second to go through his pre-snap reads. Some people feel very comfortable with it. When I was with Joe Montana and Steve Young they wouldn't even catch the snap because they didn't want to be in the shotgun. They'd miss it on purpose because they felt so comfortable with 3-5-7 step drop and not get into the shotgun. So I think a lot has to do with how a quarterback feels. A lot of them look at it differently. But you couldn't get Joe Montana or Steve Young in a shotgun formation if you tried.
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http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/index.cfm?ac=audionewsdetail&pid=15040&pcid=85

MS is Mike Shanahan.. so you can see how some QBs just do not like it. I am not sure Carr has the personality to just drop the ball if he didn't want to use it. He strikes me as a guy that would just try it if he was told to.

Here's Sherman and Flanagan talking about it in the Metrodome and how the noise effects the shotgun
http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2005/11/02/2/

You might be thinking big deal if he is not comfortable, but I disagree... you have factions of a second to make any given play work and little things like that could result in a sack... either from the line or the QB.
 
thegr8fan said:
Banks played both Superbowl attendee's, beat one, played the other to OT
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Uh, oh--gr8's playing the hyperbole game again.

Oh yeah--let's not forget the superlative play of Tony Banks singlehandedly resulting in the Texans taking the SB champs to OT. Nothing spells winner (well or in this case OT loser) like a 40% completion rate for less than 100 yds passing. Nothing could take that regulation tie away from Banks--it's not like its a team sport with Ramon Walker blocking both a punt and field goal, Eric Brown and Marcus Coleman both getting INT's, Foreman recovering a fumble for 33 yds (anybody noticing a trend how everyone in this sentence is gone from the Texans and 3 of 4 are gone from the NFL?), Viniteri missing a field goal, etc. Nope--Banks was the man that day.

Frankly, shouldn't a bust of Banks be added to the statue outside the stadium?--cause seriously every time he is brought up, bull is involved.
 
infantrycak said:
Uh, oh--gr8's playing the hyperbole game again.

Oh yeah--let's not forget the superlative play of Tony Banks singlehandedly resulting in the Texans taking the SB champs to OT. Nothing spells winner (well or in this case OT loser) like a 40% completion rate for less than 100 yds passing. Nothing could take that regulation tie away from Banks--it's not like its a team sport with Ramon Walker blocking both a punt and field goal, Eric Brown and Marcus Coleman both getting INT's, Foreman recovering a fumble for 33 yds (anybody noticing a trend how everyone in this sentence is gone from the Texans and 3 of 4 are gone from the NFL?), Viniteri missing a field goal, etc. Nope--Banks was the man that day.

Frankly, shouldn't a bust of Banks be added to the statue outside the stadium?--cause seriously every time he is brought up, bull is involved.
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Dude, Banks is a leader. You don't get it -- him being on the field, rather than No-Mojo Carr, is what made the difference.
 
infantrycak said:
Frankly, shouldn't a bust of Banks be added to the statue outside the stadium?--cause seriously every time he is brought up, bull is involved.
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:hmmm: But Banks ranks amongst the bottom ten of QBs since 1996 that had a one score chance to pull off a comeback?? That's not better.

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The latest rankings just came out today

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5764156

#23 over Volek and Brad Johnson at least!!

most likely should start a new thread for it... but then again maybe not

23. Houston
David Carr was terrible last year, but conventional wisdom says he's the victim of circumstance. But now that a new coaching staff is taking over in Houston, this is probably the last year he can use that excuse. Sage Rosenfels is nobody's idea of a starting quarterback, but he's also not the bum that most people think he is. He's a serviceable backup.
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TwinSisters said:
:hmmm: But Banks ranks amongst the bottom ten of QBs since 1996 that had a one score chance to pull off a comeback?? That's not better.

----

The latest rankings just came out today

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5764156

#23 over Volek and Brad Johnson at least!!

most likely should start a new thread for it... but then again maybe not
Click to expand...
Are you letting those snow monkeys play with the keyboard again? LOL
 
TwinSisters said:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/06/26/ramblings/stat-analysis/3978/

Nothing really all that telling here, but an interesting article nonetheless.



Billy Joe Tolliver is ranked with Carr... I think I am going to start the Lord's Prayer right now.
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The one name that is missing that, IMO, renders this stat useless, is the guy whose team has won 1/3 of the Super bowls since 1996. Tom Brady.

I would also be willing to bet, that if they projected this stat back over the Super Bowl era, there would be some other names that might not be in the "significatley good" catagory either. Bradshaw, Montana and Aikman.

These guys were on teams, during their championship runs, that rarely put them in a postition to need to comeback, little on score in the fourth quarter.
 
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