Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

What's your plan for QB next season?

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think Osweiler looked like a good QB prospect with Denver. Osweiler looked a step behind in Houston. Bringing him to Houston based on what we saw in Denver was not a bad decision.

The cost... not a shining example of intelligence. But it's not my money & they built themselves an out.

So I'm not blaming Rick, O'b, or McNair for bringing in a guy with 61% completion percentage, 7.2 ypa, 10 TDs & 6 INTs in his first 7 starts against some of the best teams in the league.

I blame the man who had him looking like the worst QB in the league with the stats to match.



I'm betting Watson will start from day 1. It would be foolish for the Texans to wait until they had a potential pro bowler at every position on the OL. We've already got potential pro bowl players at the skill positions & dang near every position on the defense.

We're lucky enough to have a window at all. Be a shame to use use a single season on an option no one believes is an option.
I would love to know what Kubiak thinks of Os.

Comparing Denver Os to Houston Os is like comparing apples and oranges. 2 totally different offenses. Glad to see your on board with creating another Carr situation and no you don't need a pro bowler at every OL position. But you do need a RT/RG that's a heck of a lot better than Clark/Allen. This doesn't even factor in that Watson isn't even close to being ready. Not every rookie QB is Dak Prescott.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I suspect Savage's injury history is not much different than other QB's in HS or college (source: http://sportsinjurypredictor.com/injury-predictor/injury-predictor/player/27663).

High School
2008 - foot injury ended season

College
2010 - hand injury
2013 - concussion during Little Caesar's Bowl against Bowling Green

NFL
2014 -Knee sprain - injured in game 15, missed game 16 and playoffs on IR (was available for 15 games)
2015 - shoulder sprain - Placed on non-returnable IR - probably a stash since Hoyer was the QB de jour. He was unavailable due to FO/coaching decisions.
2016 -infected elbow - Holding a staff infection against a player...really? If anything, the sanitation in the clubhouse was unreliable.
concussion - Last regular season game. After reading numerous accounts and hearing many people on the radio discuss this, I can only conclude that his failed second concussion protocol (after he passed the first and re-entered the game), followed by not playing the playoff game, was strictly a case of "playing the biggest check" to prove to certain folks that Oz was not the answer.

If a player has an injury of any kind and is placed on IR, his season is over. If his season is over, by Sandman's statement that player is unreliable. That statement does not take into account the fact that injuries often used to place players on IR to stash them.
You are really really focused on that IR stint in 2015. Let me ask you a simple question: Had he not been placed on IR, would he have been available for Game 1? How many games was he expected to miss at the start of the season. IR or not, he was going to be unavailable for several weeks as his shoulder healed? We both know the answer.

I hope Savage plays lights out. I've liked his "measurables". But he hasn't earned anything to this point, be it the starting job or confidence in his health. Here is to hoping that changes.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Without a phantom holding call on a Foster TD run in Indy the Texans probably beat the Colts in Indy for the 1st time in Franchise history and the story of Tom Savage's career probably is a whole lot different. Funny how things work out that way. Savage looked like a rookie QB who was getting better as the game was going along before hurting his knee on another dirty cheap shot by the Colts. They had taken out Fitz with a cheap shot earlier in the game.

I know Savage didn't throw any TD's in his games against Jags/Cincy but he did lead 4th qtr comebacks and there's something to be said for that. Because of the Hoyer debacle Bob/Ricky McNair entered the QB business and Savage really never got his shot. They've basically cut off BOB at the knees when it comes to the QB position. Hopefully Ricky did better this time with Watson than he did with Os. Right now Ricky's ability to find a franchise QB is very much in doubt. IMHO

I choose to go with Optimistic Texan's view of Savage, although he will never get a true shot as a starter with the Texans. I think he will make a fine backup QB with the Pats after this season when Jimmy G is gone.
Again, I don't have anything against Savage. As I have stated many times here, I was good with going into this next season seeing if he could be the guy. But he is quickly becoming the next Keenum around these parts. In 7 drafts from 2010-16 there were 12 QB's taken in the 4th round. Two have become starters (Cousins/Dak) through injuries and one backup has had decent playing time (Landry Jones) for the same reason. While you have to evaluate each player respectively, you can look back at draft placement to understand the odds of finding a starter. He was 4th round. Supplemental 4th round. OB called him a development project on draft day. I simply don't get this mindset that he "never got his shot" to be a starter. It wasn't owed to him, either by draft placement or performance, yet your post implies that the Texans have screwed him over somehow.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Again, I don't have anything against Savage. As I have stated many times here, I was good with going into this next season seeing if he could be the guy. But he is quickly becoming the next Keenum around these parts. In 7 drafts from 2010-16 there were 12 QB's taken in the 4th round. Two have become starters (Cousins/Dak) through injuries and one backup has had decent playing time (Landry Jones) for the same reason. While you have to evaluate each player respectively, you can look back at draft placement to understand the odds of finding a starter. He was 4th round. Supplemental 4th round. OB called him a development project on draft day. I simply don't get this mindset that he "never got his shot" to be a starter. It wasn't owed to him, either by draft placement or performance, yet your post implies that the Texans have screwed him over somehow.
I'm just saying he had the bad luck of getting hurt at the wrong time, or we would already know if he was Cousins/Dak.

Also I know it doesn't work this way with the Texans in particular, but the best players should be on the field. Regardless of draft pick status/FA/$$$$ etc...
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I'm just saying he had the bad luck of getting hurt at the wrong time, or we would already know if he was Cousins/Dak.
It's 3 friggin' years and time and time again they have decided he wasn't a Dak or Wilson.

Unlike you I don't believe "we" have to know. The coaches do...and they live and die by it. They also see hundreds of days "we" don't.

Landry, recent example of yours, almost flamed out hesitating over vet Morton v. newcomer Staubach. The decision only got made when the team made JJ's predecessor, Bob Lilly (I really think they play a lot alike), go to Landry and force the issue.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This is exactly what will happen since the OL didn't get fixed.

The oline was middle of the pack. Mainly because of injuries.

Football outsiders have us ranked: (2016)

Run blocking 15
Pass protection 12
Www.footballoutsiders.com

NFL Team Passing offense Statistics: We were was ranked 29th. Lol this just shows us how bad Brock really was because the pass protection was good.

NFL Team Receiving offense Statistics: We were ranked 29th. Wow we were also tied for 31st in TD with only 15. Again Brock was that freaking terrible.

NFL Team Rushing offense Statistics : We were ranked 8th. We also had only 8th rushing TD's. And this is mainly because Bill O'Brien was so predictable and dude just didn't have any imagination/creativity.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I would love to know what Kubiak thinks of Os.

Comparing Denver Os to Houston Os is like comparing apples and oranges. 2 totally different offenses. Glad to see your on board with creating another Carr situation and no you don't need a pro bowler at every OL position. But you do need a RT/RG that's a heck of a lot better than Clark/Allen. This doesn't even factor in that Watson isn't even close to being ready. Not every rookie QB is Dak Prescott.
I don't know that Watson is ready. I don't know how far from ready he is/isn't. I'm expecting Bill O'brien to make that assessment in OTAs. I'm hoping he feels Watson is close enough that he can have him ready for week 1. I've never made a comparison to Dak Prescott.

As far as RG goes, I'm thinking they believe Nick Martin can start at Center. I'm hoping Allen's poor play was due to injury. If not, I'm hoping they can get better guard play out of Nick Martin or Greg Mancz (who I believe can play center).

I think XSF is coming along well & will be the guy we thought he would be when we drafted him. I think Duane's got another year left in him.

I think Clark is a swing tackle & can play at a high level for a game or two if needed. Both games against Oakland points towards that.

I don't know what their plan is for RT. But I don't believe it should hold up Watson's progress. I'm good with 4 out of 5 positions on the OL & don't believe the question mark at RT will lead to a David Carr situation.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm just saying he had the bad luck of getting hurt at the wrong time, or we would already know if he was Cousins/Dak.
The Redskins & the Cowboys knew what they had in Cousins & Dak way before they stepped on the field as starters.

The Redskins haven't drafted a QB higher than the 4th since RGIII went down. They haven't brought in competition for Cousins much less an "obvious" replacement. Same thing with the Cowboys. When Romo went down, they didn't panic & bring in a replacement to back up Kellen Moore. When he got hurt, they didn't bring anyone in to start... they went with Dak & brought someone in to back him up.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
The Redskins & the Cowboys knew what they had in Cousins & Dak way before they stepped on the field as starters.

The Redskins haven't drafted a QB higher than the 4th since RGIII went down. They haven't brought in competition for Cousins much less an "obvious" replacement. Same thing with the Cowboys. When Romo went down, they didn't panic & bring in a replacement to back up Kellen Moore. When he got hurt, they didn't bring anyone in to start... they went with Dak & brought someone in to back him up.
Moore got hurt first, then Romo. And no they didn't panic because they just drafted a stud RB and had one of the best OLines in the league. I think though that you are giving Jones and Garrett way too much credit to say that going into the first game of the season with a rookie 4th rounder as their starting QB was anywhere close to any scenario they envisioned or wanted. They made chicken salad out of chicken sh!t and everyone lived happily ever after.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think though that you are giving Jones and Garrett way too much credit to say that going into the first game of the season with a rookie 4th rounder as their starting QB was anywhere close to any scenario they envisioned or wanted.
I agree with you about Zakk Elliot. I believe he was the key to their success last season. Without him... way different outcome.

& I don't believe that was their plan when they drafted Dak. I believe after OTAs, & training camp they felt really good about Dak Prescott. After game one of the preseason even better. & it kept building from there. When Romo got hurt, they felt better about starting Dak, than signing someone off the street, or trading away their future to get Sam Bradford.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The oline was middle of the pack. Mainly because of injuries.

Football outsiders have us ranked: (2016)

Run blocking 15
Pass protection 12
Www.footballoutsiders.com

NFL Team Passing offense Statistics: We were was ranked 29th. Lol this just shows us how bad Brock really was because the pass protection was good.

NFL Team Receiving offense Statistics: We were ranked 29th. Wow we were also tied for 31st in TD with only 15. Again Brock was that freaking terrible.

NFL Team Rushing offense Statistics : We were ranked 8th. We also had only 8th rushing TD's. And this is mainly because Bill O'Brien was so predictable and dude just didn't have any imagination/creativity.
My eyes told me 2 things about the Texans offense last yr.

1. Os stunk and BOB ran a conservative offense because it gave the team its best chance to win. I expect this trend to continue.

2. The right side of the OL was really bad last yr.

I don't need a bunch of FO stats to tell me that.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I agree with you about Zakk Elliot. I believe he was the key to their success last season. Without him... way different outcome.

& I don't believe that was their plan when they drafted Dak. I believe after OTAs, & training camp they felt really good about Dak Prescott. After game one of the preseason even better. & it kept building from there. When Romo got hurt, they felt better about starting Dak, than signing someone off the street, or trading away their future to get Sam Bradford.
Yep. I don't think they realized what they had on draft day. But yeah as TC and the pre-season went along they felt comfortable starting him with that supporting cast. The rest is just a fairy tale ending.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It's 3 friggin' years and time and time again they have decided he wasn't a Dak or Wilson.

Unlike you I don't believe "we" have to know. The coaches do...and they live and die by it. They also see hundreds of days "we" don't.

Landry, recent example of yours, almost flamed out hesitating over vet Morton v. newcomer Staubach. The decision only got made when the team made JJ's predecessor, Bob Lilly (I really think they play a lot alike), go to Landry and force the issue.
You really know your Cowboys history. Best thing that could have happened to them.

Savage yr 1 wasn't ready to be a starter.

Yr 2. Got hurt late in a preseason game he shouldn't even have been that late in the game. He looked good, and probably would have gotten the starting job once Hoyer got hurt and Mallett flamed out.

Yr 3. Once Os wwas signed (Ricky) there was no chance for Savage to become the starter. Even then because Os sucked so bad Savage got his chance and lost the job to one of the most suspcious concussion protocols I've been in my almost 50 yrs of watching football. This has been discussed ad nauseum and I don't want to discuss any further.

All I'm saying is Savage hasn't gotten a chance either thru injury or politics and most likely wont get a chance in Houston. I'm rooting for him wherever he goes. (Hopefully the Pats as Brady's heir apparent after Jimmy G leaves.) I suspect after BOB is gone if he doesn't get another HC job he will become the Pats OC because McDaniels will get another job.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Yep. I don't think they realized what they had on draft day. But yeah as TC and the pre-season went along they felt comfortable starting him with that supporting cast. The rest is just a fairy tale ending.


I hope we can have a "fairy tale ending" this season! I'm tired of the nightmares! :scarygirl:
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don't know that Watson is ready. I don't know how far from ready he is/isn't. I'm expecting Bill O'brien to make that assessment in OTAs. I'm hoping he feels Watson is close enough that he can have him ready for week 1. I've never made a comparison to Dak Prescott.

As far as RG goes, I'm thinking they believe Nick Martin can start at Center. I'm hoping Allen's poor play was due to injury. If not, I'm hoping they can get better guard play out of Nick Martin or Greg Mancz (who I believe can play center).

I think XSF is coming along well & will be the guy we thought he would be when we drafted him. I think Duane's got another year left in him.

I think Clark is a swing tackle & can play at a high level for a game or two if needed. Both games against Oakland points towards that.

I don't know what their plan is for RT. But I don't believe it should hold up Watson's progress. I'm good with 4 out of 5 positions on the OL & don't believe the question mark at RT will lead to a David Carr situation.
Sure is a lot of thinking in this post.
 

Flyingfish

Waterboy
Sandman - And you really seem focused on Savage being unavailable due to injuries. However, you ignore the fact that pretty much every player goes through injuries and how the FO handles them quite often has nothing to do with the actual duration of the injury. If you really believe that all players placed on injured reserve really have injuries severe enough to end their season, you have not been paying attention to the NFL very long.

1. "Had he not been placed on IR, would he have been available for Game 1?" Obviously not.

2. "How many games was he expected to miss at the start of the season?" 4-6 weeks (easy to find online)

3. "IR or not, he was going to be unavailable for several weeks as his shoulder healed." See #2

4. "We both know the answer." I can't say for you, but based on what I have read, I think I have a pretty good idea. I have researched Savage's shoulder injury online and if he had not been placed on non-returnable IR, he would have been available in 4-6 weeks - meaning he would have been available 10-12 games remaining in the season.

Steelbtexan said it best in his post, "Got hurt late in a preseason game he shouldn't even have been that late in the game. He looked good, and probably would have gotten the starting job once Hoyer got hurt and Mallett flamed out."
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
Steelbtexan said it best in his post, "Got hurt late in a preseason game he shouldn't even have been that late in the game. He looked good, and probably would have gotten the starting job once Hoyer got hurt and Mallett flamed out."
So who was going to qb the 3rd preseason game? Savage was the 3rd stringer behind the 2 guys OB brought in. You play all your back ups the 3rd game he was the last string at his position he had to be out there.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Yeah I'm not buying the Savage shouldn't have been in the game stock. As a developmental prospect who needed live reps to get better the 2nd half of a preseason game was the absolute best time for him to be playing.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
Bill O'Brien was on Mike & Mike in the morning on ESPN2 again. He claims Tom Savage is our starter right now. But then shortly after he said that he has to stay healthy and play well, and it's always an open competition. For a second there I thought he was contradicting himself. LOL

I don't put much stock into who our starting quarterback is on May the 5th. Especially when we've had so many different quarterbacks over the past three years.

Let's see who is still standing and healthy come September.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
ESPN right now (First Take). Stephen A. Smith, who had Rick Smith on his radio show earlier, just quoted Rick Smith as saying, "Deshaun Watson will compete for the starting job as a rookie. He may very well be our Week 1 starter."

So there you go. LOL, I mean wow, I guess that explains why Bill O'Brien sounded contradictory. He said it's always an open competition.

If Rick Smith and Bill O'Brien vary in opinion, who makes the final call?
Cough, cough, Bob McNair? He may decide our Week 1 starter then? LOL
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
I just texted John McClain in light of what I've seen on ESPN. He just responded back the same thing: Rick Smith is in favor of Deshaun Watson starting right away, while Bill O'Brien is in favor of Tom Savage starting.

No mention of Brandon Weeden starting.

Bill O'Brien doesn't want to start a rookie and would rather sit Deshaun Watson for all of 2017 if he has his way. But two reasons why that won't happen. 1) Injuries and 2) Rick Smith and Bob McNair may be on the same page regarding Deshaun Watson and they can override Bill O'Brien's decision.

Bob McNair is usually the one to break a tie so stay tuned.

It's just unbelievable to me how there is this much divide, at least on the surface, among our head coach, general manager and owner. Shouldn't all three be on the same page?

And it's only May! We're not even into training camp or the preseason yet. We should let these quarterbacks decide who starts by what they do on the field. If Watson has a great showing this preseason and shows he has a good grasp of the playbook, and Savage struggles and even gets hurt again, then the question will be answered on its own.

And ditto, if the opposite occurs and Tom Savage shines in preseason and Watson struggles then there you go. Tom Savage would be deserving to start. While I personally favor Deshaun Watson over Tom Savage, I'm actually in favor of "letting them compete for the starting job!"
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
In light of that... Weeden is obviously the guy :kitten:
Brandon Weeden isn't a bad option out of desperation.
He did win two games for us that he started two years ago.

I'm starting to realize that Bill O'Brien has less control right now.
You guys probably saw it a long time ago but it's shocking to me.
If you dig any deeper you will find out a lot of disturbing things.

We're going to be in for a lot of entertainment regardless.
I just hope we win a lot of games. Winning usually solves any problem.
 

Wolf

100% Texan
Bill Streicher-USA TODAY Sports
Texans GM: Watson will get shot to compete for starting job
Jack Browne May 5, 2017 10:48 AM
After the Houston Texans traded up in the first round to select quarterback Deshaun Watson, head coach Bill O'Brien said the team still viewed Tom Savage as its starter.

However, general manager Rick Smith said Thursday that Watson will get a chance to compete for the top role, during an appearance on the "Stephen A. Smith Show" on ESPN radio.

"We want to provide a competitive environment across the board. So (Watson will) compete," Smith said, according to ESPN's Sarah Barshop. "(But) like I said, we feel good about Tom and his abilities to manage the offense. But yeah, (Watson) will come in, and just like every other guy on the roster, he'll have time to play."

O'Brien highlighted that his offensive system is a complex one for a rookie to play within, and that the team is comfortable with Savage if Watson needs time to develop.

But after giving up a horde of draft picks - including the second-rounder it took to get Brock Osweiler off their books - it would be a surprise if Watson isn't under center for the Texans in Week 1.

"Our mentality is that we try to create the most competitive environment possible, at every position," Smith said. "So there are some things that Deshaun has to come in and learn - all these rookies. They've got to come in, and there's so much that they don't know about pro football.

"So he is in the class with the rest of those men when they report next week. There's a lot for him to learn that way."
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bill Streicher-USA TODAY Sports
Texans GM: Watson will get shot to compete for starting job
Jack Browne May 5, 2017 10:48 AM
After the Houston Texans traded up in the first round to select quarterback Deshaun Watson, head coach Bill O'Brien said the team still viewed Tom Savage as its starter.

However, general manager Rick Smith said Thursday that Watson will get a chance to compete for the top role, during an appearance on the "Stephen A. Smith Show" on ESPN radio.
This is a little misleading. Both O'brien & Smith said Tom Savage is the starter. O'brien never said Watson would not compete for the starting job.

I heard that interview with Rick Smith & they're making more of it than what I got out of it. All Rick said was that we covet competition at every position.

But after giving up a horde of draft picks - including the second-rounder it took to get Brock Osweiler off their books - it would be a surprise if Watson isn't under center for the Texans in Week 1.
A horde of draft picks?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I just texted John McClain in light of what I've seen on ESPN. He just responded back the same thing: Rick Smith is in favor of Deshaun Watson starting right away, while Bill O'Brien is in favor of Tom Savage starting.

No mention of Brandon Weeden starting.

Bill O'Brien doesn't want to start a rookie and would rather sit Deshaun Watson for all of 2017 if he has his way. But two reasons why that won't happen. 1) Injuries and 2) Rick Smith and Bob McNair may be on the same page regarding Deshaun Watson and they can override Bill O'Brien's decision.

Bob McNair is usually the one to break a tie so stay tuned.

It's just unbelievable to me how there is this much divide, at least on the surface, among our head coach, general manager and owner. Shouldn't all three be on the same page?

And it's only May! We're not even into training camp or the preseason yet. We should let these quarterbacks decide who starts by what they do on the field. If Watson has a great showing this preseason and shows he has a good grasp of the playbook, and Savage struggles and even gets hurt again, then the question will be answered on its own.

And ditto, if the opposite occurs and Tom Savage shines in preseason and Watson struggles then there you go. Tom Savage would be deserving to start. While I personally favor Deshaun Watson over Tom Savage, I'm actually in favor of "letting them compete for the starting job!"
Every time someone asked about Watson being the starter Rick Smith told them Tom Savage was the starter.

Why do we the fans always have to build up these controversies. He also said their is always a competition between each position. That's a good thing but Tom Savage is the starter. And during several pressers he told John Tom Savage was the starter. So why in the world is John telling you lies and big timer you're believing in those fibs.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Every time someone asked about Watson being the starter Rick Smith told them Tom Savage was the starter.

Why do we the fans always have to build up these controversies. He also said their is always a competition between each position. That's a good thing but Tom Savage is the starter. And during several pressers he told John Tom Savage was the starter. So why in the world is John telling you lies and big timer you're believing in those fibs.
Did you read his post before that one?


ESPN right now (First Take). Stephen A. Smith, who had Rick Smith on his radio show earlier, just quoted Rick Smith as saying, "Deshaun Watson will compete for the starting job as a rookie. He may very well be our Week 1 starter."

So there you go. LOL, I mean wow, I guess that explains why Bill O'Brien sounded contradictory. He said it's always an open competition.

If Rick Smith and Bill O'Brien vary in opinion, who makes the final call?
Cough, cough, Bob McNair? He may decide our Week 1 starter then? LOL
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Did you read his post before that one?
Yes i read that and i also heard Rick sat Savage was the starter in 3 different interviews
This is a little misleading. Both O'brien & Smith said Tom Savage is the starter. O'brien never said Watson would not compete for the starting job.

I heard that interview with Rick Smith & they're making more of it than what I got out of it. All Rick said was that we covet competition at every position.



A horde of draft picks?
Exactly
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I'd be shocked if Watson is not the day one starter.

I expect as time gets closer to team activities their tone in regards to him starting will be a lot more pro Watson all the way up unti OB says this: "Deshaun has come in here and worked and he's earned the right to start for this team".

They've already started down the trail.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Don't wait a year to find out what you have. Team is ready, just needs the guy on offense to lead them. If it blows up it blows up, all the critics can soak it up and rejoice in the failure, but at least now I can say they've tried everything to fix the position.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Don't wait a year to find out what you have. Team is ready, just needs the guy on offense to lead them. If it blows up it blows up, all the critics can soak it up and rejoice in the failure, but at least now I can say they've tried everything to fix the position.
No.
Let Savage have his shot.
Let's see what he's got and let's see how well O'Brien has taught him.
I see no advantage in rushing Watson into action when we have a guy that WE DRAFTED and who has three (going on four) years in this system.
Time to see if that 4th round seed we planted in 2014 grew into a tree or a weed.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Don't wait a year to find out what you have. Team is ready, just needs the guy on offense to lead them. If it blows up it blows up, all the critics can soak it up and rejoice in the failure, but at least now I can say they've tried everything to fix the position.
No.
Let Savage have his shot.
Let's see what he's got and let's see how well O'Brien has taught him.
I see no advantage in rushing Watson into action when we have a guy that WE DRAFTED and who has three (going on four) years in this system.
Time to see if that 4th round seed we planted in 2014 grew into a tree or a weed.
If Savage looks better in camp and pre season he should start. If Watson looks better or is even close he should start.

I don't see how starting one or the other for any reason outside of what they can help the team do on the field is a positive.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
It means we have two viable QB's and if that ends up being the case then we have capital that we can use to get something else we need. Savage turns it on this year and holds Watson at bay and we're going to try and get something for him (or Watson, in this scenario it won't really matter) and we don't necessarily have to do it after this season. We could stretch this out a bit because Watson will still be on his rookie deal so "relatively inexpensive" meaning we could tag Savage if necessary and the next season trade him to another team that could negotiate a long-term contract.

Two good QB's (or even two "believed to be good" QB's) would be feast following 4-5 years of famine. We could sure use some of that.

I was thinking about this and I'm having a hard time seeing it.

Savage isn't and old man but he's 27. He's older than Osweiler. Qbs can play for a good while....if they're good, but if Savage shows the kind of ability where heading into his thirties he could fetch a nice haul back I'd kind of like to keep him here rather than trade off a known successful commodity for potential in Watson.

We could turn around and trade Watson, but that's not how the pats have been doing it lol.

They draft qbs for a bargain and then trade them for much more than what they paid.

We'd just be hoping to get back what we spent to get the guy.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
-Diversity-

Simple difference between Savage and Watson. Both are gifted QB's but Savage has the better arm and Watson the better legs.

With Savage, Obie can diversify his game plan as much as desired.

With Watson, the team will run a very scripted offense with some diversity sprinkled in.

Savage will be the more accurate thrower, if for nothing else b/c of the time he has had with the entire receiving group.

Watson, like Osweiler would be far too dependent on Hopkins when things get a little hairy which could result in many passes being tossed into double and triple coverage.

Deep ball accuracy will favor Savage. Watson has some footwork issues to resolve before he can throw the deep ball with authority.

Savage should get the start but most of us thought that would be the case last season. It appears that RS is -once again- the one who might be pushing the hardest for Watson to be QB1 this season. Savage beat Osweiler last year in camp and Osweiler got the start due to the 72M ribbon he had around his neck. If Savage again wins the camp battle and for some reason Watson is the starter...then this is a RS call b/c of the RD1 pick investment and McNair possibly wanting to see the new QB on the field. I'd be real curious to see how O'Brien would handle this type of situation.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If that's the case, sounds like we got a weak head coach.
Nope, sounds like a HC who enjoys providing for his family. He did say, his job was to coach what RS gave him. If the Watson thing doesn't go as planned...RS will ask O'Brien to take the fall. The problem, what if Watson doesn't trend upwards when Lovie Smith becomes HC, who takes the fall then?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Nope, sounds like a HC who enjoys providing for his family. He did say, his job was to coach what RS gave him. If the Watson thing doesn't go as planned...RS will ask O'Brien to take the fall. The problem, what if Watson doesn't trend upwards when Lovie Smith becomes HC, who takes the fall then?
His job is to win games the best way he knows how.

As far as providing for his family, he's already earned enough money that his family should be taken care of for generations. & if he's as good as he thinks he is, he'll get another gig. One that will allow him to do what he wants to do.

Look at all the QBs Ozzie Newsome acquired before finding Flacco. Do you think Newsome should have been fired after Kyle Boller? Or do you think it was the right thing to get rid of the coach... an offensive coach who couldn't put together an NFL offense... do you think it was the right thing to get rid of the coach after Boller busted or should they have gotten rid of the GM, or both?

Harbaugh & Flacco had been to the playoffs the first five years of their career together, eventually winning a Super Bowl where Brian Billick struggled to go 8-8 after the trent dilfer Super Bowl.

The talent on this team isn't the problem, except QB. But it's not like you can pick one off a tree & go straight to the Super Bowl. You have to develop them & that's not the GMs job.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
Nope, sounds like a HC who enjoys providing for his family. He did say, his job was to coach what RS gave him. If the Watson thing doesn't go as planned...RS will ask O'Brien to take the fall. The problem, what if Watson doesn't trend upwards when Lovie Smith becomes HC, who takes the fall then?
If McNair didn't want Lovie then he definitely doesn't want him now after flaming out in Tampa, and struggling his 1st college season. Stop spreading fake crap
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
-Diversity-

Simple difference between Savage and Watson. Both are gifted QB's but Savage has the better arm and Watson the better legs.

With Savage, Obie can diversify his game plan as much as desired.

With Watson, the team will run a very scripted offense with some diversity sprinkled in.

Savage will be the more accurate thrower, if for nothing else b/c of the time he has had with the entire receiving group.

Watson, like Osweiler would be far too dependent on Hopkins when things get a little hairy which could result in many passes being tossed into double and triple coverage.

Deep ball accuracy will favor Savage. Watson has some footwork issues to resolve before he can throw the deep ball with authority.

Savage should get the start but most of us thought that would be the case last season. It appears that RS is -once again- the one who might be pushing the hardest for Watson to be QB1 this season. Savage beat Osweiler last year in camp and Osweiler got the start due to the 72M ribbon he had around his neck. If Savage again wins the camp battle and for some reason Watson is the starter...then this is a RS call b/c of the RD1 pick investment and McNair possibly wanting to see the new QB on the field. I'd be real curious to see how O'Brien would handle this type of situation.
Just to piggy back and add this on to your post...

Savage is slow to make his reads. He could speed up with more actual playing experience.

Watson, for the most part, has only had to read half the field in the Clemson offense. We don't know how fast he'll make his reads or that he'll be able to go through his reads properly. Some people says he stares down his receivers, but a large part of that is the limited reads he had to make.

Watson hasn't had the amount and level of coaching he's getting this offseason because of NCAA regulations. If he can clean up his footwork and get more consistent with his throwing motion, he could be more accurate and have a better intermediate and deep ball accuracy than we saw from him at Clemson. He has the physical tools to be a franchise QB but he doesn't have the consistency, especially in his footwork.

I'm hoping both of these guys turn into franchise guys and we have to make a hard choice between them.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If McNair didn't want Lovie then he definitely doesn't want him now after flaming out in Tampa, and struggling his 1st college season. Stop spreading fake crap
If Obie becomes the scape goat, does Lovie Smith get called in for an interview?

As for the QB situation...the only one who can be held accountable for this being a constant issue is none other than RS...the Teflon GM. Since Obie arrived, RS made one investment in a QB and it was in RD4, the RD where all the NFL QB2 and QB3's are selected. Now, Obie had his clay but wasn't comfortable with him being QB1, so he brought in a series of veterans to bridge the gap for Savage or take the reins if the project failed. Well, everyone is aware of how last year was handled so there is no sense in adding verbiage to that debacle. The only one whooping it up when the Watson pick was announced was RS (photo)...I think the rest of the group was a little stumped or that's the way it appeared...and that's just my opinion. It's just crazy to think that a franchise even hungrier than the Texans for a "Franchise QB" traded out of the spot that would've given them the third best prospect on the QB board. Maybe the Browns threw in the towel when Mahomes went off the board and decided to bolster their 2018 draft where up to 5 bonafide RD1 QB's could be there for the taking.

If RS had rationalized along the same lines...he could've traded back and probably got Robinson, Moton and Foreman....not to mention a 2018 RD4 as well. If QB is truly an issue at the completion of 2017...at least the table would be set to take 1 of these 5 QB's in 2018. The new QB would be walking into a situation where the team has an OL, running game and veteran receivers to work with. Bottom line, it would've been a much better overall picture!!!
 
Last edited:

sandman

Brexit Advisor
If Obie becomes the scape goat, does Lovie Smith get called in for an interview?

As for the QB situation...the only one who can be held accountable for this being a constant issue is none other than RS...the Teflon GM. Since Obie arrived, RS made one investment in a QB and it was in RD4, the RD where all the NFL QB2 and QB3's are selected. Now, Obie had his clay but wasn't comfortable with him being QB1, so he brought in a series of veterans to bridge the gap for Savage or take the reins if the project failed. Well, everyone is aware of how last year was handled so there is no sense in adding verbiage to that debacle. The only one whooping it up when the Watson pick was announced was RS (photo)...I think the rest of the group was a little stumped or that's the way it appeared...and that's just my opinion. It's just crazy to think that a franchise even hungrier than the Texans for a "Franchise QB" traded out of the spot that would've given them the third best prospect on the QB board. Maybe the Browns threw in the towel when Mahomes went off the board and decided to bolster their 2018 draft where up to 5 bonafide RD1 QB's could be there for the taking.

If RS had rationalized along the same lines...he could've traded back and probably got Robinson, Moton and Foreman....not to mention a 2018 RD4 as well. If QB is truly an issue at the completion of 2017...at least the table would be set to take 1 of these 5 QB's in 2018. The new QB would be walking into a situation where the team has an OL, running game and veteran receivers to work with. Bottom line, it would've been a much better overall picture!!!
tl;dr... I'm a better NFL GM than Rick Smith.
 


Top