Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

What to do in 1st round?

Out of position for top 3 QB's, what should be 1st round strategy now?

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
beerlover said:
The fact they missed on Nix III doesn't concern you about their DL evaluation process along with Clowney, that it's ok to throw a first @ position on Defense over taking care of their "New" franchise QB Brock Osweiler?
Click to expand...
Oh I'm concerned about a lot of things, if they missed on Nix, Hoyer and Clowney did they miss on Osweiller. I'm concerned that their "NEW" franchise QB Brock Osweiler has a higher probability to be more like Brian Hoyer than he does to emulate Joe Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger.
 
bah007 said:
You don't have to sell me on Shepard. I'm probably his biggest fan on this board. I agree that a good WR can still be had after the first. That's why I don't think we absolutely have to take one there.
Click to expand...
Yes. My hope would be we take Docston and Treadwell, Coleman, Fuller, Boyd and M. Thomas are selected allowing Shephard to be available at #52.
 
Mollywhopper said:
So you aren't much in favor of either Billings or Butler?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure they're first round material. You know like when Wilfork came out there was no question he was definitely a first rd pick. I don't get that with Billings and Butler. What I sense is that they will be closer to your average league NT and that the Texans can do much better in RD 1. The other part of my thought process is that Texans would not lose much at all if any, production wise, by drafting Austin Johnson in RD 2 instead of Billings or Butler in RD1.
 
Last edited:
I don't think the mistake with Nix was based on their talent evaluation but rather assessing the desire or mental side with him. Also his injury concerns as well.

They gambled that they could "get to him" and they lost. I think it was a good gamble. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't.
 
Texian said:
I'm not sure they're first round material. You know like when Wilfork came out there was no question he was definitely a first rd pick. I don't get that with Billings and Butler. What I sense is that they will be closer to your average league NT and that the Texans can do much better in RD 1. The other part of my thought process is that Texans would not lose much at all if any by drafting Austin Johnson in RD 2 instead of Billings or Butler in RD1.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer to take Johnson in rd 2 after Doctson in rd 1 myself, but I know the draft won't necessarily fall out the way I'd like. If Billings or Butler are a part of that fall out as our first rounder then I wouldn't lose any sleep, as I think they both can go. Was all I was getting at.

Still don't get the little Nix snark, but ok.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't think the mistake with Nix was based on their talent evaluation but rather assessing the desire or mental side with him. Also his injury concerns as well.

They gambled that they could "get to him" and they lost. I think it was a good gamble. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't.
Click to expand...
That's a matter of opinion, he was controlled much of the Alabama game by the Center only, rarely was he double teamed and pretty much a non factor. His last year he had more games with no tackles than he had games with 1 tackle. Talent is in eye of the evaluator.
 
bah007 said:
Take Kelly. In this scenario you have weighed talent, need, and fit and concluded that Kelly creates the biggest positive impact for the team. If that's what your board looks like you have to make sure you don't panic and jump for Coleman just because we want to add a speed element to the offense for our new QB. Perhaps Joseph is even the best "talent" of the three. But you have to take everything into account, not just "talent". Sometimes the "most talented" player is not the "best" player. It depends on who is making the pick.

I think BPA should really read BPAFYT.

Best Player Available FOR YOUR TEAM.
Click to expand...

In total agreement :fight:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't think the mistake with Nix was based on their talent evaluation but rather assessing the desire or mental side with him. Also his injury concerns as well.

They gambled that they could "get to him" and they lost. I think it was a good gamble. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't.
Click to expand...
I still think Nix was good pick at that time; in retrospect all are geniuses. IMO his Irish Chocolate college persona carried over to NFL + he came to camp not in NFL shape.
Like corner back, shake it off, learn from it and get your head into the next play.
 
Texian said:
Oh I'm concerned about a lot of things, if they missed on Nix, Hoyer and Clowney did they miss on Osweiller. I'm concerned that their "NEW" franchise QB Brock Osweiler has a higher probability to be more like Brian Hoyer than he does to emulate Joe Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...

This was supposed to be directed towards Romeo Crennel specifically didn't mean to imply you had anything to do with agreeing in their logic.

In regards to QB, Fitzpatrick & Hoyer were both stop gap plug & play Options not franchise like they believe Brock Osweiler is. Clowney has to be a franchise player to take #1 overall & if Crennel misses on a nose tackle that is a concern to me.
 
I was fine with the Nix pick as well. The third round is a fine spot to take a player like him. He's a 34 NT that you use in your base defense to hog two gaps and open up space for your ILBs to make plays against the run. He's a two down player.

If we had taken him earlier I wouldn't have liked it. But right there, totally fine with it.

Where we missed the pick was where the Texans have shown a propensity to miss at an alarming rate. We took a guy who missed the last half of his senior year due to a knee surgery. We drafted him. Fine. He must have passed his medicals. But then he has to have a second surgery before he had even played any football, and then when he recovers from that he immediately goes in for a third before he has even played a snap for us. We end up cutting him and he fails two separate physicals with the Giants before he is able to pass the third one to get on their practice squad.

How in the hell did he even get drafted with that knee??? I swear we miss on draft medicals more than any other team in the league. And not by just a little bit. It's a huge gap. We either don't do these evaluations (which btw, are the most important thing that happens at the combine) or our decision makers just ignore the info they get from the doctors.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Still don't get the little Nix snark, but ok.
Click to expand...
Nix is part of who they're, their process, no snark intended.
bah007 said:
I was fine with the Nix pick as well. The third round is a fine spot to take a player like him. He's a 34 NT that you use in your base defense to hog two gaps and open up space for your ILBs to make plays against the run. He's a two down player.

If we had taken him earlier I wouldn't have liked it. But right there, totally fine with it.

Where we missed the pick was where the Texans have shown a propensity to miss at an alarming rate. We took a guy who missed the last half of his senior year due to a knee surgery. We drafted him. Fine. He must have passed his medicals. But then he has to have a second surgery before he had even played any football, and then when he recovers from that he immediately goes in for a third before he has even played a snap for us. We end up cutting him and he fails two separate physicals with the Giants before he is able to pass the third one to get on their practice squad.

How in the hell did he even get drafted with that knee??? I swear we miss on draft medicals more than any other team in the league. And not by just a little bit. It's a huge gap. We either don't do these evaluations (which btw, are the most important thing that happens at the combine) or our decision makers just ignore the info they get from the doctors.
Click to expand...
It's not the 3rd rd I have the problem with, it's what they gave away to trade up get him that particularly bothered me, although I was never a fan.
 
Shishkabob said:
honestly I would love to get Billings or Butler at 22, depending on who is left but I have both rated higher then Spriggs although I dont think I would mind him either
Click to expand...
Bingo ! Actually I like Butler quite a bit better because he's more versitile and would clearly be a better 3-4 DE than Billings, but both can play NT. Butler has better length and is more athletic than Billings. I'd also love to have A'Shawn Robinson but no way he lasts to 22.
Yea and I also think Butler is a better player/more highly ranked than Spriggs
 
We should snag, paxton just to swerve all the other teams

Red shirt him and heck if Brock flops hard this year we will have a wildcard chip in the waiting
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't think the mistake with Nix was based on their talent evaluation but rather assessing the desire or mental side with him. Also his injury concerns as well.

They gambled that they could "get to him" and they lost. I think it was a good gamble. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't.
Click to expand...

I agree with mental & injury aspect but that HAS to go into his total evaluation. Texans MUST reverse 2nd & 3rd round hits & misses by making sure, absolutely, they check off All the boxes.
 
Texian said:
That's a matter of opinion, he was controlled much of the Alabama game by the Center only, rarely was he double teamed and pretty much a non factor. His last year he had more games with no tackles than he had games with 1 tackle. Talent is in eye of the evaluator.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely with the Alabama game but we've been through that before. Bama and a lot of other teams did everything they could to avoid him. I remember having similar conversations about Dontari Poe coming out as well. It's not easy to evaluate D-linemen based on their stats or production.
 
beerlover said:
I agree with mental & injury aspect but that HAS to go into his total evaluation. Texans MUST reverse 2nd & 3rd round hits & misses by making sure, absolutely, they check off All the boxes.
Click to expand...

Of course, that was my point. The Texans have much more access to the players than we do. It's not all about talent. That plays a major role of course, but there's a lot that goes into the evaluation that we just don't have access to.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Of course, that was my point. The Texans have much more access to the players than we do. It's not all about talent. That plays a major role of course, but there's a lot that goes into the evaluation that we just don't have access to.
Click to expand...

Of course, but it sure seems that would be Rick Smith's ultimate responsibility to be sure all the boxes are checked off, otherwise it's a red flag :texflag:
 
DocBar said:
What do you guys think of this draft profile? The strengths and weaknesses seem to directly conflict, imo. Seems like just a mumbo jumbo, gotta say something piece.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/taylor-decker?id=2555206
Click to expand...

That actually reads like a lot of the reports on Decker.

His flaws stand out so you can't just ignore them, you have to mention them. And there's nothing about him that's really all that impressive but people feel like they have to say good things about him because he's rated so highly. And in their bid to build him up they end up contradicting themselves.

Personally, I think he can walk right in and be a serviceable RT. His floor is very high. That's what has him highly rated. There's no way he gets to a team and just can't play at all. But I don't see any upside beyond that. I'd rather have him than Newton, but he's never going to be a LT and I don't anticipate that he'll ever be a Pro Bowler either.

He's slow and stiff but he has fantastic technique, which helps cover up some of his deficiencies. He's still going to give up a lot of sacks though. He's also a brute in the run game. Just runs people over. So he has value there but if he can't pass block then what do I care? He'd make a way better OG than OT but he's just too dang tall.
 
Last edited:
bah007 said:
I'll admit that I've been guilty of this myself at times, but every coach thinks that he can fix a player. So if they see a guy with severe flaws but incredible natural traits they will almost always say give me that guy and I'll fix him. That's why at the professional level (big financial investment) you need a guy (GM) that can work with the coaches and sort out which risks are worth it and which ones aren't. A lot of times the player can't be "fixed" and it would have been a better investment to take a safer player with a lower "ceiling".

A lot of scouts place way more emphasis on natural traits than they do on technique and football-specific skills, because the first can't be taught and the second one can. I prefer a more even measure. Natural traits are important, and some skills don't matter to me as much as others. But in this specific case, it's a huge red flag to me that a guy with LT athleticism struggles with pass blocking, especially since that is the most important skill required for his projection to the next level.
Click to expand...
OK, I have to put this on record, since previously I took a contrary position, but after further study I've changed my mind. Clark is too much of a project. I want more immediate contribution as a solid backup this coming season. If the Texans were to take him in the second, I wouldn't be bummed out, but he's no longer my choice. I still want to go WR in the first. As stated previously, I like Beavers; and you have him slotted into the second round, so he's a good fit into my mock,
 
Texian said:
That's a matter of opinion, he was controlled much of the Alabama game by the Center only, rarely was he double teamed and pretty much a non factor. His last year he had more games with no tackles than he had games with 1 tackle. Talent is in eye of the evaluator.
Click to expand...
Was that center Barrett Jones the Rimington winner as best center in nation or Ryan Kelly who was nominated to Rimington list and then winning this past season and best SEC blocker?
 
bah007 said:
That actually reads like a lot of the reports on Decker.

His flaws stand out so you can't just ignore them, you have to mention them. And there's nothing about him that's really all that impressive but people feel like they have to say good things about him because he's rated so highly. And in their bid to build him up they end up contradicting themselves.

Personally, I think he can walk right in and be a serviceable RT. His floor is very high. That's what has him highly rated. There's no way he gets to a team and just can't play at all. But I don't see any upside beyond that. I'd rather have him than Newton, but he's never going to be a LT and I don't anticipate that he'll ever be a Pro Bowler either.

He's slow and stiff but he has fantastic technique, which helps cover up some of his deficiencies. He's still going to give up a lot of sacks though. He's also a brute in the run game. Just runs people over. So he has value there but if he can't pass block then what do I care? He'd make a way better OG than OT but he's just too dang tall.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything you say. Pure right tackle but I think Newton better in pass protection than Decker and that makes big difference this year with Os.
 
badboy said:
Was that center Barrett Jones the Rimington winner as best center in nation or Ryan Kelly who was nominated to Rimington list and then winning this past season and best SEC blocker?
Click to expand...
It was Jones and he had a pretty easy go of it.
 
bah007 said:
I think we're better off at WR than most people seem to. I don't think WR is an absolute necessity at #22. But having said that, if Doctson is on the board that pick is a slam dunk to me. Unfortunately, I don't think he will be.

It depends on who's available but I'd be happy with Shepard. A trade down would be preferable, even if we don't get a good deal but still get our guy plus an additional asset.
Click to expand...
Everyone knows how I prefer building around Watt But Doctson with that huge catch radius opposite of Hopkins would make such a huge impact it would be really hard to pass him up. The only other player I could see having as big an overall impact would be Kelly C Alabama. If it weren't for injuries Karl Joseph would be right up there too.

Now if Buckner fell past 12 somehow I try like hell to trade up and take him.
 
mussop said:
Everyone knows how I prefer building around Watt But Doctson with that huge catch radius opposite of Hopkins would make such a huge impact it would be really hard to pass him up. The only other player I could see having as big an overall impact would be Kelly C Alabama. If it weren't for injuries Karl Joseph would be right up there too.

Now if Buckner fell past 12 somehow I try like hell to trade up and take him.
Click to expand...
Welcome to team Docston!
 
badboy said:
So a future 3rd rounder was beaten by the best center in college?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can say that. However remember that Jones played injured and had surgery on his foot right after that game. Since then Jones has bounced around the league like a yo yo and has spent most of his time on some team's practice squad. If you're suppose to be this bad ass NT who commands double and even triple teams and some lame Center controls you by himself without much trouble or help then maybe you're not a 3rd RDer.
 
beerlover said:
The fact they missed on Nix III doesn't concern you about their DL evaluation process along with Clowney, that it's ok to throw a first @ position on Defense over taking care of their "New" franchise QB Brock Osweiler?
Click to expand...


See I just don't see it that way. I would prefer we take care of our "OLD" franchise DE JJ Watt! He's the leader of this team. We know what he can do. He does it every year despite double and triple teams most of the times. The best football player to come through houston since Earl Campbell. That's who we should be focusing on building around.

Having said that, come on Josh Doctson.
 
sadly has good has JJ is he cant lead us to Dynasty Level he was on those 2-14 teams and Billy first 9-7 year

So we need to go on this Build our offensive Route
 
Bottom Line
His intangibles will likely help make up for some of his physical deficiencies, but he likely lacks the arm length and consistency against edge rushers to play on the left side as a pro. Decker has the run-blocking prowess and mindset to be a long-time starter at right tackle, but may always be a little leakier in pass protection than offensive line coaches and quarterbacks might like.
****
Yea on the summation they kinda panned him didn't they ? Intangibles ? Locker room guy, team guy who came back for his senior year instead of going to the NFL Draft after his junior year. And they don't mince words that he's not a LT but mainly a RT prospect. I'd say he's overated: it's gonna be interesting to see where he lands tonight, assuming we won't have to wait until tomorrow night to find out ? Oh I think he goes in the first round, but never know, that's another reason the Draft is entertaining. Remember Eric Winston ? Fell all the way to the third round.
 
22. HOUSTON TEXANS: Karl Joseph, S, West Virginia

Could use more speed at WR, which is in short supply at the position this year. Will Fuller is the fastest wideout and receives a long study, but GM Rick Smith and coach Bill O'Brien opt for the heavy-hitting Joseph – torn ACL and all.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...und-mock-nfl-draft-b99714826z1-377378741.html
****
So Says Draft guru Bob McGunin & local Lance Zeirlin has the same thing in his mock. Sounds crazy to me.
 
I would love to have Joseph here. On the whole, I think he is a better player than Kelly. But specifically for the Texans, I think Kelly makes the biggest impact. If there is a Center later in the draft that they just absolutely love and think they have a good shot at landing then I would definitely take Joseph.

He's probably my favorite player in this class outside of Goff.
 
bah007 said:
I would love to have Joseph here. On the whole, I think he is a better player than Kelly. But specifically for the Texans, I think Kelly makes the biggest impact. If there is a Center later in the draft that they just absolutely love and think they have a good shot at landing then I would definitely take Joseph.

He's probably my favorite player in this class outside of Goff.
Click to expand...

just something about the blue and yellow jerseys get you huh? lol
 
bah007 said:
I would love to have Joseph here. On the whole, I think he is a better player than Kelly. But specifically for the Texans, I think Kelly makes the biggest impact. If there is a Center later in the draft that they just absolutely love and think they have a good shot at landing then I would definitely take Joseph.

He's probably my favorite player in this class outside of Goff.
Click to expand...
If not for injury it's highly unlikely we would have any shot at him. He is an earl Thomas clone. If his medS check out he is easily worth pick 22 and would instantly become the best S in the history of this franchise.
 
Shishkabob said:
just something about the blue and yellow jerseys get you huh? lol
Click to expand...

I know I've been all over the WVU guys leading up to this draft but they were loaded this year. They have a ton of athletes. They coach them up too. As individual position coaches they do a fantastic job. But their scheme and play calling on both sides of the ball is garbage. And while they are stacked at the skill positions, they have a black hole in the trenches on both sides.
 
WVU guys are scary to me because you have to be really good at projecting where they play next level. big time boom or bust prospects on average which often times gives you great value I just don't think Texans are particularly good at that or should subject themselves to risk given track record unless a guy really stand out above the rest.
 
listened to McClain earlier on 610 & he was emphatic Texans would not take OL in first unless one of the top tackles slides, so no Ryan Kelly. Not unexpected but disappointing. :drunk:
 
beerlover said:
WVU guys are scary to me because you have to be really good at projecting where they play next level. big time boom or bust prospects on average which often times gives you great value I just don't think Texans are particularly good at that or should subject themselves to risk given track record unless a guy really stand out above the rest.
Click to expand...

That's where I come in...

:cricket:


But I agree with you to a point. I don't like painting every single player the same way just because of where they came from. But WVU does run goofy systems on both sides. For example, they used Joseph mostly as a nickel safety. But if you look at his skill set, strengths, and weaknesses, the best way to use him would be as a single high FS. Put him up top in cover 1 or 3 and let him makes plays on the ball and knock the hell out of people.

I would certainly agree that this type of projection is not a strength of the Texans. We actually tend to make schematic projection less important than I think we should. Our philosophy seems to be to just take the best player we can and figure out what to do with them later. Then when we get to the later, we find out that their strengths don't actually fit what we eventually need from them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top